Sad lack of special needs accommodation on Royal Caribbean

[pearlie]

I'll be honest and say that my first thoughts on this topic were that RCCL should not be expected to deal with special needs children in their Adventure Ocean program regardless of how much I may empathize with the original poster's situation. Furthermore, I thought the parents should not have the expectation that they would be able to go off and do their own thing while Adventure Ocean dealt with the special needs of their child. Finally, I questioned whether or not the parents should have even taken a cruise or taken a special needs child with them on a cruise.

 

BUT then I did some quick research and read THIS:

 

http://www.creative.rccl.com/Sales/Royal/Accessible_Seas/10017348_AccessibleSeas_Brochure.pdf

 

Specifically, page 7 states:

 

"OTHER DISABILITIES & SPECIAL NEEDS

 

CHILDREN WITH DISABILITIES

 

Children with disabilities, including autism, will love our fun-filled,

complimentary Adventure Ocean® Youth Program. Some of the

accommodations for our youngest special-needs travelers include:

• Adventure Ocean grouping by ability (rather than age)"

 

So in this case I think RCCL did indeed drop the ball. I know that the OP has already e-mailed management about this issue but they may want to e-mail Special_Needs@rccl.com as well. I think the original poster had a reasonable expectation to have the child placed into the lower aged group and it appears as if maybe the onboard staff were not aware of Royal's written policy on this.

 

To the OP: Sorry it did not work out for you while you were on the cruise.

 

I agree they dropped the ball. Thanks for the info. This will be useful for those who have special needs children. Certainly a trial at a lower level could have been accommodated.

[marci22]

While liability issues are understandable, it is sad that no one seemed to want to accommodate the OP in regards to her child.

 

A trial in the younger group would have been an acceptable accommodation. My kids did these programs for years and age groups were often mixed when it was convenient for the cruiseline.

 

Sorry this happened to you.

Edited July 23, 2015 by marci22

[finest14]

The special needs brochure linked in another post above also mentions an online special needs form to fill out pre-cruise. So, I filled it out today asking if my 13-year old son with Down syndrome could be accommodated in Adventure Ocean according to the info in the brochure. I got a response back in a few hours:

 

"It is also recommended speaking with the Adventure Ocean Manager, this is the youth program, so that they can make an assessment of the child so that they can be placed in the age group that would best suit their needs.

 

The staff in the Adventure Ocean is accustomed to working with children with all types of special needs and making sure that they enjoy their time onboard as much, if not more, than the parents do".

 

Clearly, according to the special needs brochure and the email I received from RCCL, kids can be placed in groups according to their needs, not their actual age.

 

We'll see how it goes in a few weeks on Oasis. I'll bring a copy of the brochure and the email I received and see what the Adventure Ocean manager says. It'll be fine either way but I'm curious to see how its handled onboard.

Edited July 23, 2015 by finest14

[spookwife]

one incident( Disney a year or so ago) involved an adult with delays in the teen club who became so fixated on a 14 year old girl she was unable to leave her cabin because he stalked her. I believe the parents were part of a larger group of special needs kids on board and fought heavily to allow their child in the club and refused to remove him when he started making the other kids uncomfortable

 

you have stated that you were told they would TRY and accommodate. once on board they determined that such an option or rather what you specifically wanted, was not possible.

 

my guess is is the 9-11 group was already full

 

you do realize that calling you on your cell would have been expensive right? and what if the call didn't go through?

 

I WAS the special needs child growing up(physical). my entire family missed out on things. my siblings my parents, me.

[emdia43]

Wish we had a "Like" button. One more thought is that RCCL is not a US company so they are not bound by US standards for dealing with this type of situation. The staff is most likely not properly trained in special needs children and cannot be expected to handle those children in the manner that the child deserves and the parent expects. I hope the op goes on the Autism at Sea cruises or finds a cruise ship that has the proper staff and training in place to handle the situation to her satisfaction.

 

They do comply with ADA regulations, and it is mentioned a lot in any article about catering to those with disabilities. Here is one article..... http://cilbrowardadaexpo.com/speakers/ronald-pettit-royal-caribbean-cruises-ltd/

Edited July 24, 2015 by emdia43

[pattle66]

I am sorry RCI did not meet your expectations once you were on board. I have always found the staff at AO to be very accommodating. It sounds like you had it in your mind that you wanted your son in the lower aged group but did the AO staff discuss with you how they would work with your son in his age group? Did they give you any other options?

 

I admit I am in 2 minds on how I think AO should handle the situation.

On one hand I would not be comfortable with a teenage boy or boys (14 -17) being allowed in the 9 -11 group with my 9 year old daughter. I would be worried about unwanted attention from a teenage boy full of hormones who may not have the ability to control his actions. I am not saying that describes your son but we only know our own children.

 

On the other hand your son should have been able to enjoy the AO facilities especially as they advertise groups by ability not age. AO do have pagers that they could have provided you with in case of any issues.

 

I hope that your future cruising experiences are enjoyable.

[Paul65]

Clearly, according to the special needs brochure and the email I received from RCCL, kids can be placed in groups according to their needs, not their actual age.

 

That is correct. It doesn't say that the Adventure Ocean staff will do whatever the parents want/ask for, but it does say that they are accustomed to working with children with special needs and can make an assessment of the child.

[leisuretraveler223]

It's unfortunate that you got poor information in advance. But I would be very surprised if any line allowed a child with Downs to attend with a younger age group. While it may be more appropriate from an intellectual capacity, children with Downs are physically very capable. And while it may not be the case with your child, some have the potential to be more physically aggressive at play than is appropriate. Putting that physically larger, stronger child in with younger smaller children would not likely be advisable.

[setsail]

The OP said they will NOT cruise rci again

Edited July 24, 2015 by setsail

[LizzieandLuke]

My son has Fragile X syndrome and was 9 on the last cruise and he was placed with the 6 - 8 year olds with no problem. I thought they treated him wonderfully and it makes me sad that you didn't have the same experience.

 

On one hand I would not be comfortable with a teenage boy or boys (14 -17) being allowed in the 9 -11 group with my 9 year old daughter. I would be worried about unwanted attention from a teenage boy full of hormones who may not have the ability to control his actions. I am not saying that describes your son but we only know our own children.

 

I would have no problem with a 14 year old Downs syndrome boy being placed with my 9 year old daughter with full supervision - that is silly. I would be more upset with my special needs child being alone with typical teenage children. My son is in class with 4 boys with Downs Syndrome and they are polite, well behaved, and very sweet - just like my son. I know the teachers at his school are trying to get them to be more age appropriate (not watching Barney for example) not so much worrying about hormones. People are talking about special needs adult situations. Not special needs who are just becoming teenagers.

 

I would interpret the response you got before you left home to mean that he could be in Adventure Ocean. I too would be very disappointed especially since he couldn't even try.

Edited July 24, 2015 by LizzieandLuke
Spelling

[Budget Queen]

My son has Fragile X syndrome and was 9 on the last cruise and he was placed with the 6 - 8 year olds with no problem. I thought they treated him wonderfully and it makes me sad that you didn't have the same experience.

 

 

 

I would have no problem with a 14 year old Downs syndrome boy being placed with my 9 year old daughter with full supervision - that is silly. I would be more upset with my special needs child being alone with typical teenage children. My son is in class with 4 boys with Downs Syndrome and they are polite, well behaved, and very sweet - just like my son. I know the teachers at his school are trying to get them to be more age appropriate (not watching Barney for example) not so much worrying about hormones. People are talking about special needs adult situations. Not special needs who are just becoming teenagers.

 

I would interpret the response you got before you left home to mean that he could be in Adventure Ocean. I too would be very disappointed especially since he couldn't even try.

 

"Full supervision", In my opinion, you can not expect this. Again, I will mention, these are not health care providers- who would have the special training and experience. This is an activity staff. It is unreasonable, to expect staff to be tied up, with more supervision of one person.

 

Those who are claiming- a "trial" is no big deal, and should be done? Perhaps- however, I would expect this to be done over several hours, WITH those parents right there and accepting of the staff supervisor's assessment.

 

Again, I am not trying to create problems, but, I do come from a health care professional background, and it is not being realized the liability you have to deal with. Training is essential, and risks have to be minimal. Everyone makes the claims- oh they would never do that, we know him, etc. Unfortunately there is NO way to predict the future and precautions HAVE to be in place.

 

Thinking, yep, they can "call" me "anytime"- is pretty worthless. An incident takes place, now someone has to split off, and make calls, a situation could be escalating, time stands still, Plus the responsibility of everyone else. Then it's going to be the staff's "fault". Again, liability in a ligating society

 

I hope both sides can be seen, and from this point, have more involvement with the guardians. I would suggest, not just "dropping off", and instead, be willing to stand by, for a couple sessions. Be available, don't make excuses for unacceptable behaviors. It can all work out very well, and the more this is done, the door opens up for familiarity and tools for safety and everyone's enjoyment.

[LizzieandLuke]

When my son was on the Freedom, we were given a beeper (never used) and started out slowly - leaving him for an hour at time.

 

The reason they wouldn't take her son was the age not the disability. The Liability is exactly the same, whether her son was 11 or 14. So they are trained to care for an eleven year old with Downs syndrome but not a fourteen year old??

 

Part of the reason we choose to cruise with Royal is their reputation with Special Needs children - which is very good. I think this was poor judgement call by the staff.

[WrittenOnYourHeart]

"Full supervision", In my opinion, you can not expect this. Again, I will mention, these are not health care providers- who would have the special training and experience. This is an activity staff. It is unreasonable, to expect staff to be tied up, with more supervision of one person.

 

Those who are claiming- a "trial" is no big deal, and should be done? Perhaps- however, I would expect this to be done over several hours, WITH those parents right there and accepting of the staff supervisor's assessment.

 

Again, I am not trying to create problems, but, I do come from a health care professional background, and it is not being realized the liability you have to deal with. Training is essential, and risks have to be minimal. Everyone makes the claims- oh they would never do that, we know him, etc. Unfortunately there is NO way to predict the future and precautions HAVE to be in place.

 

Thinking, yep, they can "call" me "anytime"- is pretty worthless. An incident takes place, now someone has to split off, and make calls, a situation could be escalating, time stands still, Plus the responsibility of everyone else. Then it's going to be the staff's "fault". Again, liability in a ligating society

 

I hope both sides can be seen, and from this point, have more involvement with the guardians. I would suggest, not just "dropping off", and instead, be willing to stand by, for a couple sessions. Be available, don't make excuses for unacceptable behaviors. It can all work out very well, and the more this is done, the door opens up for familiarity and tools for safety and everyone's enjoyment.

 

Exactly to what I have bolded. I teach special ed and have worked with students with emotional-behavioral disturbances, Downs, general developmental delays, and all along the autism spectrum. We have learned (luckily not the hardest way - we haven't lost a child) that when dealing with students with these special needs, you cannot get complacent. Sadly with special needs, past behavior is no guarantee of future behavior. We have had older students who never bit before suddenly begin biting. We have had students who would never leave a chair in the classroom suddenly become runners.

 

And when do these incidences tend to happen more than any? Towards the beginning of the school year, just before and after vacation times, and sometimes when a new student comes into the class. In other words when they are out of their normal environment.

 

And that's not even getting into how the children react differently with different people. I cannot tell you the number of IEP meetings I've had where I'm going over the present level of performance or the social-behavioral part and the parent says "Oh, s/he doesn't do (or does do, which usually happens when I say what I have not observed them being able to do academically through constant assessment) that with me at all!" Just like we who are typically developing behave differently in different situations, those with special needs behave differently in different situations as well.

[WrittenOnYourHeart]

You post about the supposed "large number of incidents" yet there are no threads that can be found here on cruise critic or on a google search.

 

Kids are allowed to be aged down, this happens all the time with the Autism on the Seas groups. That group also provides staff that is allowed to help in Adventure Ocean with kids that sail with them.

 

To the OP, I would really followup with the cruise line. Did you speak to special needs or just a rep at the 800 number? You should also look into Autism on the Seas. They are a group that sails on all cruise lines and can help you a lot. We sailed on the Jewel of the Seas a few years ago with a group of young adults that were on a cruise with Autism on the Seas. Many of those traveling were kids with downs syndrome. They had a separate area in the theater reserved for them and also a private dining room off the WJ just for them.

 

You hit on the key reason why they are allowed to be aged down for AAS cruises - there is additional staff in the clubs to help out.

 

I would imagine the same would be true with a Buddy cruise.

 

There is not additional staff on a regular cruise.

[reallyitsmema]

You hit on the key reason why they are allowed to be aged down for AAS cruises - there is additional staff in the clubs to help out.

 

I would imagine the same would be true with a Buddy cruise.

 

There is not additional staff on a regular cruise.

 

They also allow kids to be aged down when they are not traveling on an Autism on the Seas cruise. If you check out the family forum, I know of at least two posters who post on aging down threads who have had their child aged down every time they have cruised.

 

I really think there is more to this story. It does not look like the OP talked to the special needs department in advance, just a discussion with a rep on the 800 number. I also think the OP asked for more than the cruise line has ever advertised they offer.

 

As far as others comments on the Adventure Ocean staff, they are all required to have a 4 year degree in education, recreation or a related field. They are not just activities staff members. I am not saying that will mean they all have had special needs courses but they are all at least college educated.

[Budget Queen]

When my son was on the Freedom, we were given a beeper (never used) and started out slowly - leaving him for an hour at time.

 

The reason they wouldn't take her son was the age not the disability. The Liability is exactly the same, whether her son was 11 or 14. So they are trained to care for an eleven year old with Downs syndrome but not a fourteen year old??

 

Part of the reason we choose to cruise with Royal is their reputation with Special Needs children - which is very good. I think this was poor judgement call by the staff.

 

 

Training- sorry, I have to disagree. There is no way, cruise ship staff, have much, if any training with the range of various disability needs. As example, in the system I worked, the nurse's assistance had a 400 hour training. PLUS, on the job training/supervision following. This involved "day care", with pts. who went to school/lived home, as well as inpatients.

 

Just trying to stress, both sides.

 

Your statement of "poor judgement", proves my point, that staff will be the first blamed. You do not know, why the events were deemed at the time. You immediately faulted, as being "wrong". Sorry, there could have been very valid reasons for the outcome. Again- liability. Until you are dragged into court- and have to defend your actions/decisions you won't understand- the caution you have to double and triple think about at the time of your decisions. I'm always going to err on the most conservative, and follow policies, etc, which I did, because my livelihood and other people's lives depended on it.

[clawmachine]

When my son was on the Freedom, we were given a beeper (never used) and started out slowly - leaving him for an hour at time.

 

The reason they wouldn't take her son was the age not the disability. The Liability is exactly the same, whether her son was 11 or 14. So they are trained to care for an eleven year old with Downs syndrome but not a fourteen year old??

 

Part of the reason we choose to cruise with Royal is their reputation with Special Needs children - which is very good. I think this was poor judgement call by the staff.

 

Exactly! So when you drop off your 8 year old daughter to a cruise club and there happens to be a physically aggressive 8 year old girl in that same group with her, how is that any less liability? This notion that many of the previous posters have suggested or implied- that most older boys are somehow physically or sexually aggressive - is frankly quite offensive. I'm very sorry for the OP's experience and concerned that it happened. Civic, sports, church and school groups mix children of different ages and abilities ALL the time! Statistically, any of the ADULTS your child encounters on a cruise are more likely to harm your child than any other child with special needs.

 

Some of the attitudes here make me sad. :(

Edited July 24, 2015 by clawmachine

[CruisinBarb63]

I wasn't going to post in this conversation again, but I think I must. It is incredibly disappointing that so many people have such a low view of children with Down Syndrome and other disabilities. Sweeping generalities are being made of all children with special needs that are untrue for so many. People are also guessing or assuming what programs should do or are available to do.

 

Every child is different, regardless if they have special needs or not. A typical child can also act or react differently in a new place, with people they don't know, just as much as children with different abilities or special needs.

 

It is true that Royal Caribbean advises they can accommodate children with special needs. They advise they can put them in groups based on ability instead of age. Since they advise that is the case, they need to at least work with a parent when they request the accommodation, especially if the parent has called in advance (emailing can protect that conversation and document it).

 

Austim at Sea is entirely different than Buddy Cruise. Austim at Sea provides staff for children with Austim and other special needs. The experience is arranged in advance with Austim at Sea and has an additional cost, depending on what it is you need or want for your child. Buddy Cruise is a group of families who have children with or love children with Down Syndrome and other special needs. Staff is NOT provided to assist with the children, the families bring helpers or family to assist with their family member with special needs if they feel it is necessary. In many cases, large, extended families come along for the incredible experience. There are activities for the kids involved with Buddy Cruise, but no extra staff is provided. It is a chance for families to cruise with like-minded families to support and learn from each other and a chance for the individuals with special needs to vacation with their peers and make friends for a lifetime from around the world. It is not exclusionary. Families with or without special needs are welcome to join.

[LizzieandLuke]

Training- sorry, I have to disagree. There is no way, cruise ship staff, have much, if any training with the range of various disability needs. As example, in the system I worked, the nurse's assistance had a 400 hour training. PLUS, on the job training/supervision following. This involved "day care", with pts. who went to school/lived home, as well as inpatients.

 

Just trying to stress, both sides.

 

Your statement of "poor judgement", proves my point, that staff will be the first blamed. You do not know, why the events were deemed at the time. You immediately faulted, as being "wrong". Sorry, there could have been very valid reasons for the outcome. Again- liability. Until you are dragged into court- and have to defend your actions/decisions you won't understand- the caution you have to double and triple think about at the time of your decisions. I'm always going to err on the most conservative, and follow policies, etc, which I did, because my livelihood and other people's lives depended on it.

 

If you are against the 14 year old being with Downs syndrome (which is not a behavioral disability but a developmental one) being with 11 year olds I still don't see what the big deal is especially when it is all over these boards that children - including mine - have aged up and aged down and the OP believed that was cleared ahead of time - and unfortunately we all know Royal says one thing off the ship and another on board. I bet she could be on Independence tomorrow and they would take her son in a heart beat.

 

However, I think you are saying they should automatically not include special needs children - because that is what it sounds like and that is sad. As stated earlier by someone else, the staff all have BAs in education (which does require some special ed training) - and were wonderful. If you think Downs syndrome children have no place with other children maybe you should "change professions."

 

I will no longer respond to this thread as it making me one of those ugly people I hate on these boards. :mad:

[Paul65]

Some of the attitudes here make me sad. :(

 

Your attitude makes me sad, because you seem to want to read negativity into others' comments that might not have been there.

 

There are differences between a 9 year old and a 14 year old that go beyond just mental and social development. Acknowledging that does not mean that one is implying that, "most older boys are somehow physically or sexually aggressive."

[Paul65]

I wasn't going to post in this conversation again, but I think I must. It is incredibly disappointing that so many people have such a low view of children with Down Syndrome and other disabilities. Sweeping generalities are being made of all children with special needs that are untrue for so many.

 

No, they're not.

[clawmachine]

I wasn't going to post in this conversation again, but I think I must. It is incredibly disappointing that so many people have such a low view of children with Down Syndrome and other disabilities. Sweeping generalities are being made of all children with special needs that are untrue for so many. People are also guessing or assuming what programs should do or are available to do.

 

Every child is different, regardless if they have special needs or not. A typical child can also act or react differently in a new place, with people they don't know, just as much as children with different abilities or special needs.

 

It is true that Royal Caribbean advises they can accommodate children with special needs. They advise they can put them in groups based on ability instead of age. Since they advise that is the case, they need to at least work with a parent when they request the accommodation, especially if the parent has called in advance (emailing can protect that conversation and document it).

 

Austim at Sea is entirely different than Buddy Cruise. Austim at Sea provides staff for children with Austim and other special needs. The experience is arranged in advance with Austim at Sea and has an additional cost, depending on what it is you need or want for your child. Buddy Cruise is a group of families who have children with or love children with Down Syndrome and other special needs. Staff is NOT provided to assist with the children, the families bring helpers or family to assist with their family member with special needs if they feel it is necessary. In many cases, large, extended families come along for the incredible experience. There are activities for the kids involved with Buddy Cruise, but no extra staff is provided. It is a chance for families to cruise with like-minded families to support and learn from each other and a chance for the individuals with special needs to vacation with their peers and make friends for a lifetime from around the world. It is not exclusionary. Families with or without special needs are welcome to join.

 

I agree 100%...and my thought when reading through this thread is that I would put my children in a play group with 5000 children with disabilities before I would have them spend 5 minutes with some of the judgmental adults who have posted here.

 

My son has an intellectual disability and this entire thread is so very disheartening. He's as gentle as a lamb, by the way, and has excellent behavior!

[finest14]

Many parents with kids with disabilities, myself included, aren't asking for one-on-one aids or other similar accommodations in AO. My 14 year old with Down syndrome attends many programs in our community (similar to AO) with typical kids (both younger and older) with no extra attention from councilors. Kids with Down syndrome are incredibly different from each other, just like typical kids. My son is higher functioning on a social/emotional level but his physical challengers are more pronounced. His best friend (same age boy with Down syndrome) is the exact opposite.

 

In my case, and my case only, we are asking that my son not be allowed to check himself out of AO. Whether that means he ages down or not doesn't matter, he will do fine with any age group. As his parents, we just feel it would be best for him to have us pick him up when he wants to leave. Hopefully, the AO staff can make that happen. If not, we'll have a great cruise anyway.

 

So, here's to all the great parents with kids with special needs that work hard every day to do what's best for, and advocate for, their children. Just like typical parents do...only with a few more challenges. If you're on the 8/15 Oasis sailing and see a good looking 14-year old with Down syndrome, his name is Ben. Feel free to come up to us and introduce yourself. If you don't know anyone with Down syndrome, you may even learn a thing or two.

[Budget Queen]

If you are against the 14 year old being with Downs syndrome (which is not a behavioral disability but a developmental one) being with 11 year olds I still don't see what the big deal is especially when it is all over these boards that children - including mine - have aged up and aged down and the OP believed that was cleared ahead of time - and unfortunately we all know Royal says one thing off the ship and another on board. I bet she could be on Independence tomorrow and they would take her son in a heart beat.

 

However, I think you are saying they should automatically not include special needs children - because that is what it sounds like and that is sad. As stated earlier by someone else, the staff all have BAs in education (which does require some special ed training) - and were wonderful. If you think Downs syndrome children have no place with other children maybe you should "change professions."

 

I will no longer respond to this thread as it making me one of those ugly people I hate on these boards. :mad:

 

Good idea you don't post again. You have skewed my post entirely. NO WAY, did I say anywhere, not to include children with disabilities. My point, was to give a view of the other "side", and potential reasons for decisions, that people like you are so quick to jump on. My response would be the same, for any issue that could impact on the safety of anyone- as example a "bully" child as example.

 

I specifically mentioned, an alternative of , the guardian- staying in the vicinity of the child, for a few sessions with any "trials".

[spookwife]

 

It is true that Royal Caribbean advises they can accommodate children with special needs. They advise they can put them in groups based on ability instead of age. Since they advise that is the case, they need to at least work with a parent when they request the accommodation, especially if the parent has called in advance (emailing can protect that conversation and document it).

 

 

 

CAN. NOT WILL. and they WILL NOT BE ABLE TO BE ALL THINGS FOR ALL PEOPLE.

 

some people just have extremely unrealistic expectations and demands.

 

we, none of us, knows why the on board staff refused to 'try' perhaps an offer was made that was unacceptable. who knows. perhaps, and I still say this is the most likely scenario, is that the younger club was at or over capacity and they WERE NOT ABLE TO HANDLE another body.. special needs or otherwise.

 

I AM a former special needs a child and am currently a special needs adult. I have learned that no matter how badly I want to be included in some things and and have a 'normal life' that there will be times and places WHERE THAT WILL NOT HAPPEN. it is a fact of life and no one owes me that experience and no one is required to go overboard and cater to my every desire.

 

yeah yeah we all want our kids to be treated respectfully and normally and just like any other kid. but newsflash sometimes. that just plain is not an option.everyone wants their kids to get special treatment in the interest of 'fairness'.

 

LIFE IS NOT FAIR.

 

if you want a family vacation that will cater to your explicit demands then stay with the cruise lines that have done so in the past or do Disney