Silversea Water Cooler: Welcome! Part Two

[les37b]

Les

 

Try this site

http://www.sea-scanner.com/schiffsposition.php?schiff=Silver+Wind

 

Many thanks.

 

Really weird as Marinetraffic.com still has it in Amsterdam.

 

She was due at Dartford at about 5.15 ~ eventually arrived about 25 minutes late.

 

got some great footage this time that ill post in a bit.

[jpalbny]

Hello coolers! You have all been busy!

 

I picked the wrong weekend to be working...have missed a ton of interesting discussions and don't think I'll be able to catch up. Wanted to interject a few points related to what Jeff has posted (I have much appreciated your perspective here).

 

The unelected EU bureaucracy, from the descriptions on this forum, strike me as the modern-day equivalent of the European aristocracy. An unelected self-appointed governing class who decide what rules they wish to impose on the non-aristocratic class, because they know better. While their subjects are going about trying to live their lives, the aristocracy is busy forging political alliances, and regulating things, without bothering to decide whether the subjects will like it or not.

 

And the result is predictable. A conglomeration of united states who may well be so culturally dissimilar that they would not like to be yoked together. Rules that may serve some higher purpose (perhaps obscure, perhaps not), but are unpopular among the citizenry. Etc etc. Populist uprising felled the monarchies; is this not similar in some way?

 

Secondly, I think Les makes a nice analogy between NAFTA and how the EU started out, and what it has become. I can imagine the chaos here in the US if NAFTA evolved into a common citizenship policy. It would mean far more than simply unhindered movement of people between Canada, Mexico, and the US...what would happen is that many citizens of the poorer Central American citizens would see that as a golden opportunity to immigrate to Mexico and once they obtained legal status there, the US would be forced to admit them as legal immigrants.

 

This is what (IMO) Britain feared as a result of the influx of migrants into other EU countries. As big as your heart may be, and as sorry as you may feel for the situation that caused the migrants to flee their country, social services cost hard cash. A social system falls apart when it is rapidly expanded without first expanding the funding.

 

Note that I'm not passing any judgement on that situation. Immigration is a wonderful way to broaden one's horizons. I grew up in a tiny community in Central New York where I never was exposed to anyone who wasn't a white Christian until I went to college at RPI (an engineering school near Albany). Imagine the culture shock to see people from Asia, India, the Caribbean, South America...every day...it was amazing! To this day, I work with student physicians who have trained in many different countries and it's something I enjoy very much. I could never go back to my homogenous roots.

 

Immigration, and exposure to other cultures, is a way to realize that have more in common than we are different with many types of people who may not superficially look or act as we do. BUT - immigration has to be dealt with carefully, as too much of a good thing can backfire. I wish I had an answer...I've learned so much from my students and I would hate to see that opportunity go away, both for them, and for us. It has made us both richer for the experience.

[mysty]

Well said JP!

[les37b]

JP, Virtually all brexitors (there will be some exceptions), are not against immigration. i think we recognise it is actually needed. And you are also correct that no one blames those less well off wanting to migrate to somewhere they are near guaranteed to be better off and look after their families. But we cant always have things we want. You just have to be realistic and make sure the migration levels you get are substainable along with skillsets you require.

 

We are a very small island. There might be over a billion people... maybe even more, who would like to live here. I expect there are people who think they should be allowed but the harsh reality its potentially suicide to allow it unchecked.

[UKCruiseJeff]

Hi JP,

 

thanks for the words and also you placing the situation in the EU against the more understandable context of the US. Perhaps you can now see how for example the intervention of Obama probably had the opposite effect than was expected either by him or Cameron.

 

This evening 11 senior shadow cabinet members have resigned from the shadow (Labour Party) cabinet but at the moment Jeremy Corbybn (The leader of the Labour party and official opposition) is refusing to go. He has cancelled his shadow cabinet meeting for tommorow because (I speculate) he is running out of people willing to be appointed. As I said earlier it seems impossible for him surving longer than tommorow night even though he insists he will not resign.

 

You will recall I predicted a couple of days back that Sturgeon (Scotland's First Minister) has called for another Scottish referendum and discussions to remain in the EU. She is simply demanding things she knows she cannot have in a rather stupid way in order to try and whip up hatred towards the English. The EU is nothing if it doesn't follow rules. She continually repeats "we are in unchartered waters" but this is clearly untruthful. It is chartered waters, it is all in the rules. Scotland leaves the UK and then reaplies to join the EU. They acknowledge receipt and lay out entry criteria which will include the transfer of sovereignty to the EU and acceptance of the currency, something I am looking forward to her explaining to the Scottish people who previously indicated when asked if they would like to continue to be part of the EU said "yes".

 

It was a terribly irresponsible petulant act of David Cameron to resign now in the way he has. We now have terrible scenes of immigrants being interviewed believing that they are going to be expelled. It is heartbreaking. No one has seen the Chancellor George Osborne for several days. These people now badly need leadership and reassurance and they have all shut up shop and gone to sulk.

 

I tried to make the last long post as short as possible, but a bit more detail might explain why we are where we are.

 

What is often forgotten is that when David Cameron promised the EU referendum, he was leader and PM in a coalition government with The Liberal Democrats. So he was saying to the British public, "vote for me and I will give you a referendum on EU membership". He did this to placate his own back-benchers, and to win votes in the general election. But he did this never believing that he would actually win enough votes for a full Conservative government. He thought that they would either lose or have another coalition and that the Liberal Democrats wouldn't agree to a referendum. So in summary, he made the promise never believing he would have to carry it through.

 

So roll the clock forward to the last day or so. Every Prime Minister or President frets about "their legacy" ie how will they be remembered. Cameron realised yesterday that he will be remembered for being the Prime Minister who took th UK out of the EU by accident and the Prime Minister who miscalculated and sowed the seeds of the destruction and implosion of the EU. That is in my view why he resigned. It wasn't honour it was recognition of what may turn out to be a disgraceful place in history.

 

Anyway .... enough from me for now. This subject must be boring people to death and Earth Wind and Fire are now changed for later ......

 

Again apologies for typos and other errors.

 

Jeff

[Travelcat2]

The unelected EU bureaucracy, from the descriptions on this forum, strike me as the modern-day equivalent of the European aristocracy. An unelected self-appointed governing class who decide what rules they wish to impose on the non-aristocratic class, because they know better. While their subjects are going about trying to live their lives, the aristocracy is busy forging political alliances, and regulating things, without bothering to decide whether the subjects will like it or not.

 

And the result is predictable. A conglomeration of united states who may well be so culturally dissimilar that they would not like to be yoked together. Rules that may serve some higher purpose (perhaps obscure, perhaps not), but are unpopular among the citizenry. Etc etc. Populist uprising felled the monarchies; is this not similar in some way?

 

Secondly, I think Les makes a nice analogy between NAFTA and how the EU started out, and what it has become. I can imagine the chaos here in the US if NAFTA evolved into a common citizenship policy. It would mean far more than simply unhindered movement of people between Canada, Mexico, and the US...what would happen is that many citizens of the poorer Central American citizens would see that as a golden opportunity to immigrate to Mexico and once they obtained legal status there, the US would be forced to admit them as legal immigrants.

 

This is what (IMO) Britain feared as a result of the influx of migrants into other EU countries. As big as your heart may be, and as sorry as you may feel for the situation that caused the migrants to flee their country, social services cost hard cash. A social system falls apart when it is rapidly expanded without first expanding the funding.

 

Note that I'm not passing any judgement on that situation. Immigration is a wonderful way to broaden one's horizons. I grew up in a tiny community in Central New York where I never was exposed to anyone who wasn't a white Christian until I went to college at RPI (an engineering school near Albany). Imagine the culture shock to see people from Asia, India, the Caribbean, South America...every day...it was amazing! To this day, I work with student physicians who have trained in many different countries and it's something I enjoy very much. I could never go back to my homogenous roots.

 

Immigration, and exposure to other cultures, is a way to realize that have more in common than we are different with many types of people who may not superficially look or act as we do. BUT - immigration has to be dealt with carefully, as too much of a good thing can backfire. I wish I had an answer...I've learned so much from my students and I would hate to see that opportunity go away, both for them, and for us. It has made us both richer for the experience.

 

Agree with what you posted but want to add that the U.S. border between Mexico and the U.S. is fairly easy to cross and has been for years. One of the major reasons that California has been in bankruptcy is illegal immigration. I do not know anyone that is not in favor of immigration, but as has been said, it has to be controlled. And, as much as Mexico does not want a wall between our countries, Mexico is in the processing of building a southern wall - to keep people from Guatemala and Central America out.

 

It is obvious that England cannot take in unlimited numbers of immigrants. And, to me it is obvious that there should not be what sounds like a dictatorship governing European nations. There is so much good that the EU offers but it seems like they simply went too far and will ultimately lose more countries in the near future.

[MrOscarH]

Hi JP,

 

thanks for the words and also you placing the situation in the EU against the more understandable context of the US. Perhaps you can now see how for example the intervention of Obama probably had the opposite effect than was expected either by him or Cameron.

 

This evening 11 senior shadow cabinet members have resigned from the shadow (Labour Party) cabinet but at the moment Jeremy Corbybn (The leader of the Labour party and official opposition) is refusing to go. He has cancelled his shadow cabinet meeting for tommorow because (I speculate) he is running out of people willing to be appointed. As I said earlier it seems impossible for him surving longer than tommorow night even though he insists he will not resign.

 

You will recall I predicted a couple of days back that Sturgeon (Scotland's First Minister) has called for another Scottish referendum and discussions to remain in the EU. She is simply demanding things she knows she cannot have in a rather stupid way in order to try and whip up hatred towards the English. The EU is nothing if it doesn't follow rules. She continually repeats "we are in unchartered waters" but this is clearly untruthful. It is chartered waters, it is all in the rules. Scotland leaves the UK and then reaplies to join the EU. They acknowledge receipt and lay out entry criteria which will include the transfer of sovereignty to the EU and acceptance of the currency, something I am looking forward to her explaining to the Scottish people who previously indicated when asked if they would like to continue to be part of the EU said "yes".

 

It was a terribly irresponsible petulant act of David Cameron to resign now in the way he has. We now have terrible scenes of immigrants being interviewed believing that they are going to be expelled. It is heartbreaking. No one has seen the Chancellor George Osborne for several days. These people now badly need leadership and reassurance and they have all shut up shop and gone to sulk.

 

I tried to make the last long post as short as possible, but a bit more detail might explain why we are where we are.

 

What is often forgotten is that when David Cameron promised the EU referendum, he was leader and PM in a coalition government with The Liberal Democrats. So he was saying to the British public, "vote for me and I will give you a referendum on EU membership". He did this to placate his own back-benchers, and to win votes in the general election. But he did this never believing that he would actually win enough votes for a full Conservative government. He thought that they would either lose or have another coalition and that the Liberal Democrats wouldn't agree to a referendum. So in summary, he made the promise never believing he would have to carry it through.

 

So roll the clock forward to the last day or so. Every Prime Minister or President frets about "their legacy" ie how will they be remembered. Cameron realised yesterday that he will be remembered for being the Prime Minister who took th UK out of the EU by accident and the Prime Minister who miscalculated and sowed the seeds of the destruction and implosion of the EU. That is in my view why he resigned. It wasn't honour it was recognition of what may turn out to be a disgraceful place in history.

 

Anyway .... enough from me for now. This subject must be boring people to death and Earth Wind and Fire are now changed for later ......

 

Again apologies for typos and other errors.

 

Jeff

 

But it was all triggered by your vote, amongst others. Can you not take ownership of your own decision?

 

As I said previously I have real sympathy for those who have to follow Cameron and co. They have an insurmountable problem. Cameron did exactly the right thing given the circumstances.

[TLCOhio]

JP, you are also correct that no one blames those less well off wanting to migrate to somewhere they are near guaranteed to be better off and look after their families. We are a very small island. There might be over a billion people... maybe even more, who would like to live here. I expect there are people who think they should be allowed but the harsh reality its potentially suicide to allow it unchecked.

 

jpalbny: Wanted to interject a few points related to what Jeff has posted (I have much appreciated your perspective here). The unelected EU bureaucracy' date=' from the descriptions on this forum, strike me as the [b']modern-day equivalent of the European aristocracy[/b]. An unelected self-appointed governing class who decide what rules they wish to impose on the non-aristocratic class, because they know better. While their subjects are going about trying to live their lives, the aristocracy is busy forging political alliances, and regulating things, without bothering to decide whether the subjects will like it or not. (IMO) Britain feared as a result of the influx of migrants into other EU countries. As big as your heart may be, and as sorry as you may feel for the situation that caused the migrants to flee their country, social services cost hard cash. A social system falls apart when it is rapidly expanded without first expanding the funding.

 

UKCruiseJeff: Cameron realised yesterday that he will be remembered for being the Prime Minister who took th UK out of the EU by accident and the Prime Minister who miscalculated and sowed the seeds of the destruction and implosion of the EU.

 

Appreciate so much these added insights' date=' comments, etc. I have highlighted a few of the many good comments that connected very well with me as written by Les, JP and Jeff. As noted, we might like to help those facing bad civil wars, terrible economics, etc., BUT, there are limits as to how many immigrants can be taken in, funded, supported, etc. Personally, I have enjoyed traveling in many diverse parts of the world and experiencing a wide variety of situations and challenges. However, under what rules and standards does your country manage these conditions, how many to allow to come in and stay, who supports those who are less productive in their economic skills after they immigrate in, etc.?? No easy, quick or cheap answers!! Sadly!!

 

For Jeff and others, keep up on sharing these thoughts, history, viewpoints, etc.

 

From the liberal-leaning MSNBC network here on Friday, they have this headline: [b']" 'This is the worst,' Alan Greenspan says of British break from EU"[/b]. The now 90-year-old Greenspan presided over our powerful Federal Reserve for 19 years, starting with the administration of President Ronald Reagan through that of George W. Bush. Greenspan worked for Republican and Democratic Presidents, but he also fit as the ultimate "establishment" and "globalist" power figure.

 

Here are some more interesting story highlights and quotes from Greenspan that tell much more on the "rest of the story" about this overall situation: "There's a certain amount that monetary policy can do, but our problem is fundamentally fiscal," Greenspan said, adding that this is true in the United States as well as "every major country in Europe." Part of the problem is that the "developed countries are all aging very rapidly," which is leading to a higher ratio of government spending in the form of entitlements, Greenspan said. The aging demographics in many Europe countries, plus the high cost for social-welfare programs, all are adding up rapidly and are a key part of this current economic challenge.

 

Full Greenspan story at:

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/06/24/alan-greenspan-says-british-break-from-eu-is-just-the-tip-of-the-iceberg.html

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

 

Did a June 7-19, 2011, cruise from Barcelona that had stops in Villefranche, ports near Pisa and Rome, Naples, Kotor, Venice and Dubrovnik. Dozens of nice visuals with key highlights, tips, comments, etc. We are now at 214,122 views for this live/blog re-cap, including much on wonderful Barcelona. Check these postings and added info at:

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1426474

[les37b]

[Travelcat2]

Question..... what are your opinions on whether or not the devaluation of the GBP will affect luxury cruising. In recent years many people from the U.K. have been sailing on all of the luxury cruise lines.

 

P.S. This is definitely not a boring topic. Learning views from all sides is enlightening.

[TLCOhio]

 

Appreciate the wonderful, interesting video by Les. I was really wondering how you achieved this look!! Maybe a helicopter?? But, then I saw the reference to the drone or the official name of DJI Phantom 3 Professional Quadcopter. Nice "tool" and fun results!!

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

 

Enjoyed a 14-day, Jan. 20-Feb. 3, 2014, Sydney to Auckland adventure, getting a big sampling for the wonders of "down under” before and after this cruise. Go to:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1974139

for more info and many pictures of these amazing sights in this great part of the world. Now at 146,316 views for this posting.

[Nigella]

I'm going to the newsagent tomorrow and will order a quarter of wine gums. Followed by a visit to the butcher for a pound of mince. :D

 

More seriously,Brexit will cause me some problems as I divide my time between the UK and France. I voted leave all the same. I run my business from the UK and am a UK taxpayer.

There has been no clear guidance for married couples in our situation. It's possible that we will have to commit to living in one country or the other, but we each retained our own nationality and neither applied for citizenship of the other country. In theory I could be prevented from living in France in the future. So who knows what will happen.

Some of our friends in similar mixed EU nation marriages who have kids are quite concerned about future living arrangements.

If there is to be a referendum in France, my husband would vote leave.

 

The insults being directed at leavers are terrible. Xenophobic, thick and uneducated are just a few.

[UKCruiseJeff]

Question..... what are your opinions on whether or not the devaluation of the GBP will affect luxury cruising. In recent years many people from the U.K. have been sailing on all of the luxury cruise lines.

 

P.S. This is definitely not a boring topic. Learning views from all sides is enlightening.

 

TC,

 

Thanks for your question, but to be completely honest I don't think many people in the UK, are currently thinking about the price of cruises.

 

The current atmosphere in the UK is the most awful it has ever in my life been.

 

From my wife's and my point of view, both of us are, to be honest, angry we have been asked to make this decision. To be frank, we would have preferred Cameron to break his promise and not offer wifey and me the choice. I would have preferred to continue grumbling instead. But once asked, we had to follow our conscience.

 

Jeff

[UKCruiseJeff]

I'm going to the newsagent tomorrow and will order a quarter of wine gums. Followed by a visit to the butcher for a pound of mince. :D

 

More seriously,Brexit will cause me some problems as I divide my time between the UK and France. I voted leave all the same. I run my business from the UK and am a UK taxpayer.

There has been no clear guidance for married couples in our situation. It's possible that we will have to commit to living in one country or the other, but we each retained our own nationality and neither applied for citizenship of the other country. In theory I could be prevented from living in France in the future. So who knows what will happen.

Some of our friends in similar mixed EU nation marriages who have kids are quite concerned about future living arrangements.

If there is to be a referendum in France, my husband would vote leave.

 

The insults being directed at leavers are terrible. Xenophobic, thick and uneducated are just a few.

 

N,

 

What are the chances that the next referendum being offered to the French?

 

Jeff

[mysty]

Nicely done Les! What fun!

[jpalbny]

Yes, great video, Les. And enjoying everyone's ongoing comments. Your perspectives are so enlightening. Nigella, nice to hear your perspective - with one foot planted on either side of la Manche!

Edited June 27, 2016 by jpalbny

[les37b]

I keep reading comments written by 18 to 24 year olds and on behalf of then moaning grey haired people have ruined their lives.

 

I know the figure of those who bothered to vote were in the majority to stay at 72%. However it's wrong to claim 72% of 18 to 24 year olds voted remain since only 43% of this age group thought it important enough to put their X on the ballot paper.

 

In truth, less than 30% of this age group voted to remain.

 

78% of those over 65 voted.....

 

You've got to be in it to win it.

[les37b]

Three million signatures have now signed the request to a second Brexit referendum - including 77000 people from Vatican City. What the Popein' hell is going on?

 

100000 votes are needed to bring any petition a reading in the house of commons which they definitely legitimately have.

 

It will be interesting to see how long it takes before being thrown out.

 

I see that a few mps like Labour MP David Lammy thinks it's ok to ignore democracy and the referendum. Let's hope democracy remembers that in the next election.

[Nigella]

N,

 

What are the chances that the next referendum being offered to the French?

 

Jeff

 

Morning Jeff.

it's extremely unlikely in the next 12 months, but things may becom more clear early next summer after next Presidential elections.

 

I think a lot will depend on how our negotiations go, but there is a high level of euro scepticism.

Pres Hollande did call for some reduction of EU control a year or so back so contrary to the popular view of France from outside it's not just the right wing parties

I think there will be a referendum in the next 5/6 years if the EU doesnt make some radical changes following our exit.

[UKCruiseJeff]

Good morning all!

 

Very nice Les, that was a lot of work! Good observations re the differences of turnout. It's still confusing that we were told very clearly that anything over around 55% turnout would be a certain remain result.

 

Thanks Nigella.

 

I'm reading that most people in Holland wish to have a referendum, and Geert Wilders will proably offer one and he is becoming increasingly popular. "Hurrah for The Brits". "We want to be in charge of our own country". It seems to be breaking out in each country. La Pen seems to becoming more popular. European Parliament President Martin Schulz denied Brexit would trigger a domino effect, saying the EU was "well-prepared".

 

We'll see.

 

I have been struggling for a week or so with choosing a brush cutter. There are no helpful web sites and what is more I'm nervous of them as I have a bad habit of self-injuries. Anyone ever bought one and can offer tips?

 

Jeff

[Ravenscroft]

Good morning all!

 

Very nice Les, that was a lot of work! Good observations re the differences of turnout. It's still confusing that we were told very clearly that anything over around 55% turnout would be a certain remain result.

 

Thanks Nigella.

 

I'm reading that most people in Holland wish to have a referendum, and Geert Wilders will proably offer one and he is becoming increasingly popular. "Hurrah for The Brits". "We want to be in charge of our own country". It seems to be breaking out in each country. La Pen seems to becoming more popular. European Parliament President Martin Schulz denied Brexit would trigger a domino effect, saying the EU was "well-prepared".

 

We'll see.

 

I have been struggling for a week or so with choosing a brush cutter. There are no helpful web sites and what is more I'm nervous of them as I have a bad habit of self-injuries. Anyone ever bought one and can offer tips?

 

Jeff

 

I have friends who've recently returned to France after living in Holland for 15 years, they're telling me the same . The Dutch want a vote of their own.

 

No idea about brush cutters. My extent of knowledge of anything garden related is more to do with how comfortable the garden furniture is, and how strong is the Pimms. ;)

Save

 

Sorry everyone, I've done it again, my sister in law is going to murder me. :eek:

This is why I stopped posting at the Cooler about a year ago - when I'm at her and myb rother's house she stays logged in on the laptop and I jump on not realising she's logged in. Sorry yet again for the confusion. It was me, Nigella who posted there.

Edited June 27, 2016 by Ravenscroft

[UKCruiseJeff]

I have friends who've recently returned to France after living in Holland for 15 years, they're telling me the same . The Dutch want a vote of their own.

 

No idea about brush cutters. My extent of knowledge of anything garden related is more to do with how comfortable the garden furniture is, and how strong is the Pimms. ;)

Save

 

Sorry everyone, I've done it again, my sister in law is going to murder me. :eek:

This is why I stopped posting at the Cooler about a year ago - when I'm at her and myb rother's house she stays logged in on the laptop and I jump on not realising she's logged in. Sorry yet again for the confusion. It was me, Nigella who posted there.

 

Thanks N,

 

I have no choice! Been in touch with five gardening companies so far and all are busy for months!

 

Looks like Corbyn is hanging on ..... it will be an interesting dilemna for the unions choosing whether they choose a kindred spirit or someone who has a chance of winning an election.

 

Jeff

[Mark_K]

Three million signatures have now signed the request to a second Brexit referendum - including 77000 people from Vatican City. What the Popein' hell is going on?

 

 

 

100000 votes are needed to bring any petition a reading in the house of commons which they definitely legitimately have.

 

 

 

It will be interesting to see how long it takes before being thrown out.

 

 

 

I see that a few mps like Labour MP David Lammy thinks it's ok to ignore democracy and the referendum. Let's hope democracy remembers that in the next election.

 

 

77,000 votes from a place with less than a thousand residents. Reminiscent of an election in Chicago.

[UKCruiseJeff]

Henri Hedgehog is out this evening for a rumage. Hermione has just joined him but it's too dark to take a piccy with the ipad. They left the kids at home.

 

:)

 

Jeff

 

[mysty]

There may be more kids in Hermione's future! :)