Does every company have to chisel ?

[ToadOfToadHall]

Is it me, or does every company in the entire world have to be on the chisel ?

 

I've just looked at the Cunard excursions (Bruges in my case). I played the video and it said "book this excursion to remove the hassle of using public transport and the worry of missing the ship".

 

Why do they feel the need to say that kind of thing ? It just seems that every business has to twist things somehow, like adverts that don't actually lie, but bend the truth or play on people's fears ? Is there no integrity and honesty in the world ?

[Jim Avery]

Is it me, or does every company in the entire world have to be on the chisel ?

 

I've just looked at the Cunard excursions (Bruges in my case). I played the video and it said "book this excursion to remove the hassle of using public transport and the worry of missing the ship".

 

Why do they feel the need to say that kind of thing ? It just seems that every business has to twist things somehow, like adverts that don't actually lie, but bend the truth or play on people's fears ? Is there no integrity and honesty in the world ?

 

Not much from what I see. But in all honesty, it is nothing new. I am currently reading a trilogy that covers in great detail the 20th century. I have previously read many histories of WWI and WWII and am always somewhat taken aback at what insignificant acts, manipulated and enhanced by politicians to do just as you say, play on people's fears, have blossomed into conflicts that killed tens of millions in Europe alone. Bending the truth seems to be an art form these days.

Edited September 5, 2015 by Jim Avery

[pris993]

Is it me, or does every company in the entire world have to be on the chisel ?

 

I've just looked at the Cunard excursions (Bruges in my case). I played the video and it said "book this excursion to remove the hassle of using public transport and the worry of missing the ship".

 

Why do they feel the need to say that kind of thing ? It just seems that every business has to twist things somehow, like adverts that don't actually lie, but bend the truth or play on people's fears ? Is there no integrity and honesty in the world ?

 

In the USA, we have a saying "buying beware".

[Sauer-kraut]

In the USA, we have a saying "buying beware".

 

In Britain I believe they say "caveat emptor" ;)

[navybankerteacher]

In Britain I believe they say "caveat emptor" ;)

 

Actually, I believe that was the expression common in Italy a couple of millennia ago ----- also, I suppose in, provincial Britania from about 50 AD until those rascals from Jutland, Saxony, etc. came calling about 450.

[Pennbank]

Is it me, or does every company in the entire world have to be on the chisel ?

 

I've just looked at the Cunard excursions (Bruges in my case). I played the video and it said "book this excursion to remove the hassle of using public transport and the worry of missing the ship".

 

Why do they feel the need to say that kind of thing ? It just seems that every business has to twist things somehow, like adverts that don't actually lie, but bend the truth or play on people's fears ? Is there no integrity and honesty in the world ?

 

Another One Cunard use regarding Transatlantic's is the ESTA waiver programme

Where they imply in The Daily Programme that you have to be in possession of a print out of your ESTA or face a $4300 max fine and hence make a bit of money out on Internet and print out charges.

[Tampa Girl]

I'm not sure I would characterize Cunards' words as "chiseling." For one thing, it is true. There are many places where taking a ship's excursion is safer than taking a local or private excursion. And it certainly does take the fear, however realistic it may or may not be, out of missing the ship if the private excursion encountered a problem.

 

Secondly, every business it out to make money. So are the local excursion vendors. And attracting customers requires the business to use the best possible selling points. I just don't see this as chiseling.

[balf]

Another One Cunard use regarding Transatlantic's is the ESTA waiver programme

 

Where they imply in The Daily Programme that you have to be in possession of a print out of your ESTA or face a $4300 max fine and hence make a bit of money out on Internet and print out charges.

 

 

When you complete the ESTA application it is stated that you do not need to print out a copy, obviously because it is a purely electronic process, so where do they get the $4300 fine from.

 

Or do Cunard apply the fine. That would be a nice little earner.

 

David.

[LondonTowner]

All. Cruise lines say the same thing. We have only ever taken ship excursions twice and that was due to time restrictions. It's normally far more beneficial to arrange your own trips.

[Pennbank]

When you complete the ESTA application it is stated that you do not need to print out a copy, obviously because it is a purely electronic process, so where do they get the $4300 fine from.

 

Or do Cunard apply the fine. That would be a nice little earner.

 

David.

 

Balf, I think the $4300 max fine comes if you attempt to enter without an ESTA Authorisation . But the wording Cunard use and the offer of print outs on the Daily Programme implies that you need a print out, I am sure many customers have paid for the unnecessary print out whilst on board.

Cunard ESTApdf.pdf

Edited September 5, 2015 by Pennbank

[golf29]

When you complete the ESTA application it is stated that you do not need to print out a copy, obviously because it is a purely electronic process, so where do they get the $4300 fine from.

 

Or do Cunard apply the fine. That would be a nice little earner.

 

David.

 

Like you I had read that printed copies weren't needed but had brought them anyway for a recent transatlantic. Just as well as at check-in at Southampton we were asked for our ESTAs but couldn't as they were in our cabin baggage. This was noted and a couple of days later we got a letter to our stateroom asking us to produce them at the purser's desk which we duly did. So the moral is - print them and have handy at check-in.

[ToadOfToadHall]

Balf, I think the $4300 max fine comes if you attempt to enter without an ESTA Authorisation . But the wording Cunard use and the offer of print outs on the Daily Programme implies that you need a print out, I am sure many customers have paid for the unnecessary print out whilst on board.

 

That's exactly the sort of chiselling I'm referring to. As you say, the Daily Programme does imply that you need to print it out and put it in your passport, which of course you don't need to do. But that's what it says. Plus, no one would be on the ship unless they already have an ESTA, so why does Cunard feel the need to tell you how to get one ? And then tell you to print it out ?

 

So that means that a company decision has been made to publish that, which means someone has worked out they can frighten people into logging on and printing their ESTA when there is no requirement to do so. It's calculated to generate income.

 

As an aside, you don't need your cruise e-tickets either. On our last cruise I left mine the car. When we checked in they asked for them and I said I'd left them in the car, and the person said "It does not matter, we don't actually need them anyway". And when you think about it, of course they don't need them, because your passport identifies you, not a bit of paper that anyone could print out/edit etc.

[GUT2407]

I'm not sure I would characterize Cunards' words as "chiseling." For one thing, it is true. There are many places where taking a ship's excursion is safer than taking a local or private excursion. And it certainly does take the fear, however realistic it may or may not be, out of missing the ship if the private excursion encountered a problem.

 

Secondly, every business it out to make money. So are the local excursion vendors. And attracting customers requires the business to use the best possible selling points. I just don't see this as chiseling.

 

 

can't see how it's chiseling either, selling yes.

[ToadOfToadHall]

can't see how it's chiseling either, selling yes.

 

Selling would be "Here's an excursion, and it's really good".

 

Chiselling would be "Here's an excursion, and here's some reasons that are designed to worry you into buying one".

 

That's my point. Why do companies feel the need to sell their products in this way ? They push the negative points if you don't buy as opposed to the positive points if you do.

[laktex]

Like you I had read that printed copies weren't needed but had brought them anyway for a recent transatlantic. Just as well as at check-in at Southampton we were asked for our ESTAs but couldn't as they were in our cabin baggage. This was noted and a couple of days later we got a letter to our stateroom asking us to produce them at the purser's desk which we duly did. So the moral is - print them and have handy at check-in.

 

I would imagine that Cunard do not have access to the ESTA registration from when you present your passport so the only way they can know if you have an ESTA is a copy of the document.

 

I suppose the same will apply with the shortly to be introduced Canadian eTA system.

[BlueRiband]

... I played the video and it said "book this excursion to remove the hassle of using public transport and the worry of missing the ship"...

 

So what's wrong with that statement? They're both legitimate selling points. Walking off the ship straight to a Cunard coach would sound like a convenience well worth the money to some. To use a Cunard tour when it will take up almost all of the time the ship is in port makes sense too. It's not chiseling when you have the freedom to accept or reject their argument.

[Host Hattie]

I had never heard the expression so I had to resort to Google where I learned that to chisel is to cheat or swindle. It seems to be a rather harsh judgement to call Cunard's shore excursions selling cheating or swindling. Plenty of people (including us on occasion) have found them a convenient alternative to DIY.

[Chunky2219]

There's quite a few places where I|would feel safer taking a ship's excursion. But Bruges? A frequent train service to/from from Zeebrugge and the greatest threat when you get there is the cobbles.

 

It's not chisseling, in the accepted sense, it's just lazy marketing for he lazy traveler.

 

.

[jimmybean]

Selling would be "Here's an excursion, and it's really good".

 

Chiselling would be "Here's an excursion, and here's some reasons that are designed to worry you into buying one".

 

That's my point. Why do companies feel the need to sell their products in this way ? They push the negative points if you don't buy as opposed to the positive points if you do.

 

I agree. There used to be a tone that accompanied good service, which promoted customer loyalty. At some point, shifting to hard-sell or using fear as a sale tactic, has replaced that tone. Frankly, I find this change off-putting, too.

[navybankerteacher]

Sadly, virtually anyone selling anything seems to have a tendency to go beyond simply (and honestly) extolling the nature of the product. I remember as a child wondering just how much bigger than Shell's was Citgo's "BIG GALLON" of gasoline, or how much "WHITER THAN WHITE" (Ipana, I believe) one toothpaste could actually make ones teeth appear.

 

Why expect cruise lines to be above the common ethics of the marketplace?

[kendon]

Sometimes you just can't put a price on convenience. For many, taking the ship's excursions and transfers is just easier. I agree, it's just "selling".

[rsquare]

The fact of the matter is that the unexpected can happen. We docked in Monte Carlo on a Sunday and planned to take the train to Villefranche for the flea market, and then the bus into Nice, coming back on the same route to Monte Carlo to rejoin the ship. Perfectly simple itinerary, not only no reason to do a ship's tour, but also no ship's tour offering just enough time in Villefranche to have a wander through the flea market.

 

Problem number one emerged at the Monte Carlo rail station, which was deserted on a Sunday. Tickets could only be bought from a kiosk, and the kiosk only accepted chip-and-pin cards, which at that time few American had. So we boarded the train with the expectation of paying the conductor after explaining the problem. But there was no conductor; one of the passengers tol us that the French rail system (which serves Monaco) was on strike, and the trains were being run irregularly by management people. We got off in Villefranche, enjoyed the flea market, and walked up to the bus stop in the upper town, only to see a line of people stretching down the road. With no train service, the buses were jammed. Eventually giving up, we walked across the street to the less crowded eastbound stop, only to see packed buses whizzing by without even stopping. We eventually found a cab to take us back to Monte Carlo, a 12 mile ride which cost us €60, and counted ourselves lucky.

 

So the risk is real, and different people will react more or less strongly to the risk of not making it back to the ship, or not being able to navigate a foreign transit system. To mention that ship's tours provide security against a situation such as this is not to lie or chisel; it might be very important information to the timid or those who do not fancy their chances of communicating in a foreign language or going to the trouble of learning that, for example, the Villefranche train station is nowhere near the intercity bus stop. It is a perfectly legitimate appeal; even after that experience, it is not an appeal to which I respond, but nor do I denigrate those for whom security and convenience are important values.