Compensation for Riviera Nurovirus Cruise

[wristband]

"Wow, I was on this cruise and this exactly expresses my thoughts, including the last line that I will not sail this line again...We are very experienced cruisers and have never seen such non-existent enforcement of hand sanitizing on other lines when boarding or re-boarding from the ports or going into the dining rooms. O is certainly culpable in the spread of the noro by not following normal protocols...The enjoyment of the cruise is significantly diminished by having half the crew sanitizing instead of doing their normal duties. And also, the ship is a mess with dripping sanitizer everywhere and wet sticky surfaces."

 

We were also on the ship on the crossing and TOTALLY AGREE with the criticism voiced here by others onboard. It was shocking to see the lack of monitoring at all of the dining venues once the outbreak was publicly announced. Until the day of disembarkation 12/3, only Terrace had a staff member standing and suggesting to sanitize - none of the others (Grand Dining, Polo, Toscana, Waves etc.) had an employee dedicated to that message...and it was not made MANDATORY to sanitize before entering any dining venue.

 

So, the many mobility challenged passengers on board wandered in, touching railings, table tops, chair handles for support and then touching the menus without having sanitized before entering. Let's not even go into the disgusting habits of elderly males using the public toilet stalls and refusing to wash their hands before going into the GDR or Terrace. Revolting.

 

The point about the pax boarding who were ill in Barcelona needs clarification. I am personally aware of 3 passengers who openly admitted they became sick as soon as we sailed - lady from LA area, lady from Florida and a couple from Montreal. The point here is O needs to be more proactive than having us self-report whether we have a fever or are vomiting at checkin. Who is going to tell the truth in Barcelona after having paid for the cruise and traveled to Spain to board? No one. The end result is we are all captive to their illness. Thermal imaging is used at airports and the nurses could take temps. Yes, it takes 24-48 hours for symptoms to appear but O can help stem certain cases from spreading.

 

The communication on board was hopelessly inept. We knew there was big problem when pax were staying in their rooms sick after Funchal. I saw several elevators with vomit on the floor and called the front desk. On my floor - ten - there were six rooms with sick pax right after Funchal. One was on our Trivia team and never thought of going to the Medical Center as he knew he had to stay segregated until he got better. I met a couple in Miami as we got off who both were sick but had no notion they needed to report their case to the ship doctor.

 

In other words, there were many more noro cases on board than what is being reported b/c those folks did not know or see the need to visit the Medical Center. Later, the announcement was made for pax with GI symptoms to see the doctor for free.

 

The condition of Riviera was shocking as noted. We have had four prior cruises on the ship but this was the worst of any cruise we have been on (over 35). Dripping sanitizer is only one aspect. With the understaffed crew - service was particularly bad - and the deterioration of the physical features, we wonder if the post-sale Oceania is suffering from internal cutbacks and reductions in areas where it is apparent to long time loyal customers - service levels and basic functions.

 

Noro outbreak aside (we did not fall ill due to rigorous hand washing, Purell etc), this cruise sadly failed to meet our expectations.

[robbie21]

I just looked at the CDC site and Web MD. they both say the same thing about hand sanitizers,

 

What about alcohol-based hand sanitizers?

 

CDC recommends that cruise ship passengers use warm water and soap to wash their hands. Washing is always best.

If water and soap are NOT available (perhaps on excursions), use an ethanol alcohol-based hand sanitizer, preferably in a gel form. The sanitizer should be at least 60% ethanol.

 

I have read many times here that they are useless, I do not believe it and use them and would say all should.

 

Please look at the following NY Times article:

 

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/01/14/really-the-claim-hand-sanitizer-stops-norovirus-spread/?_r=0

 

The takeaway is that the noro virus is not affected by alcohol gels. Note also that the CDC recommends alcohol gels only as a supplement when hand washing facilities are not available. They are effective for bacteria and some types of viruses but not noro. I think that hand washing facilities are available on board your ship :). The health care facilities where I have worked require soap and water between each patient encounter. They also use alcohol gels as a supplement but if the infections control nurse catches you not washing with soap and water you will be written up.

 

I found the 2011 CDC study that facilities that predominately used alcohol cleansers were infected six times more often that those that used soap and water to be particularly damning.

 

I don't mean to be a jerk about all this but please don't rely on false information or assumptions when your health is involved. Get the facts.

[sammiedawg]

Please look at the following NY Times article:

 

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/01/14/really-the-claim-hand-sanitizer-stops-norovirus-spread/?_r=0

 

The takeaway is that the noro virus is not affected by alcohol gels. Note also that the CDC recommends alcohol gels only as a supplement when hand washing facilities are not available. They are effective for bacteria and some types of viruses but not noro. I think that hand washing facilities are available on board your ship :). The health care facilities where I have worked require soap and water between each patient encounter. They also use alcohol gels as a supplement but if the infections control nurse catches you not washing with soap and water you will be written up.

 

I found the 2011 CDC study that facilities that predominately used alcohol cleansers were infected six times more often that those that used soap and water to be particularly damning.

 

I don't mean to be a jerk about all this but please don't rely on false information or assumptions when your health is involved. Get the facts.

 

I'm a medical professional and I've read the medical literature more than once on these hand washing gels. They are ineffective against Noro and cold flu viruses, of which there are many. It is disingenous when a cruise line harasses passengers to use this hand sanitizer, I've been on other cruise lines when they really pushed it as some "fix it"solution to Noro but it is not. It is not a deficiency if a cruise line does not demand the use of hand sanitizer. The presence of sanitizer is a nicety, it makes passengers feel like they are doing something. All cruise lines have it in dining venues and gangways, including Oceania.,

 

I use the cruise ship hand sanitizer for general purposes but I am not operating on the false pretense this hand sanitizer prevents much. i keep hand sanitizer in my car to wash messy little hands when we cannot use soap and water.

The gold standard is vigorous hand washing with hot Water and soap. You will not see medical professionals relying on hand sanitizer. They wash with soap and water and may use a hand gel to help with dry, cracked skin after they wash their hands. The literature even advises to wash with hot soapy water after removing protective personal equipment such as gloves.

[RJB]

I'm a medical professional and I've read the medical literature more than once on these hand washing gels. They are ineffective against Noro and cold flu viruses, of which there are many. It is disingenous when a cruise line harasses passengers to use this hand sanitizer, I've been on other cruise lines when they really pushed it as some "fix it"solution to Noro but it is not. It is not a deficiency if a cruise line does not demand the use of hand sanitizer. The presence of sanitizer is a nicety, it makes passengers feel like they are doing something. All cruise lines have it in dining venues and gangways, including Oceania.,

 

I use the cruise ship hand sanitizer for general purposes but I am not operating on the false pretense this hand sanitizer prevents much. i keep hand sanitizer in my car to wash messy little hands when we cannot use soap and water.

The gold standard is vigorous hand washing with hot Water and soap. You will not see medical professionals relying on hand sanitizer. They wash with soap and water and may use a hand gel to help with dry, cracked skin after they wash their hands. The literature even advises to wash with hot soapy water after removing protective personal equipment such as gloves.

 

Some people on these boards are still operating on the hand sanitizer theory and I hope this post will put that false sense of safety and security to rest.

[robbie21]

No, but my health is.

[ORV]

Later, the announcement was made for pax with GI symptoms to see the doctor for free.

 

 

Actually another passenger pointed out to me that only the "evaluation" is free, if you were sick you were charged for the treatment.

 

So actually they weren't offering "free medical care" for people with a GI problem as some have reported. The person I was talking to about this told me they knew a woman that got sick with noro while on board and her bill was over $3k. I'm hoping she got more than being quarantined to her room and a bottle of pedialyte.

[RJB]

Actually another passenger pointed out to me that only the "evaluation" is free, if you were sick you were charged for the treatment.

 

So actually they weren't offering "free medical care" for people with a GI problem as some have reported. The person I was talking to about this told me they knew a woman that got sick with noro while on board and her bill was over $3k. I'm hoping she got more than being quarantined to her room and a bottle of pedialyte.

 

No wonder people were not reporting their sickness. Kind of tough to blame them if it is going to cost them 3 grand. That being said they should not have been out and about with the virus, but kept in their cabins.

[LHT28]

The person I was talking to about this told me they knew a woman that got sick with noro while on board and her bill was over $3k. I'm hoping she got more than being quarantined to her room and a bottle of pedialyte.

 

What treatment did she get for 3K?? :eek:

 

I could see if she was severely dehydrated they would need I.V. fluids but there really is not much you can do for NORO

 

Sometimes stories take on a life of their own

[Christine Frances]

Some people on these boards are still operating on the hand sanitizer theory and I hope this post will put that false sense of safety and security to rest.

 

Does this look familiar to anyone? http://www.globalindustrial.ca/p/janitorial-maintenance/bathroom/hand-sanitizers/noro-virus-sanitizing-solution-bags-6-pack-80-st702-nor?infoParam.campaignId=T9F&gclid=Cj0KEQiAkIWzBRDK1ayo-Yjt38wBEiQAi7NnP0gyQ3YZ4RrGK12lLQe6vqtRQNYV2uyQIxpQ_AvV5voaAvAb8P8HAQ

 

I don't think cruise lines use the same sanitizer that you can pick up in Wal Mart for $1

Edited December 4, 2015 by Christine Frances

[LHT28]

Does this look familiar to anyone? http://www.globalindustrial.ca/p/janitorial-maintenance/bathroom/hand-sanitizers/noro-virus-sanitizing-solution-bags-6-pack-80-st702-nor?infoParam.campaignId=T9F&gclid=Cj0KEQiAkIWzBRDK1ayo-Yjt38wBEiQAi7NnP0gyQ3YZ4RrGK12lLQe6vqtRQNYV2uyQIxpQ_AvV5voaAvAb8P8HAQ

 

I don't think cruise lines use the same sanitizer that you can pick up in Wal Mart for $1

 

It does not give the ingredients but they are probably better than the ones people buy in the local store ;)

[ORV]

Sometimes stories take on a life of their own

 

Agree, just passing along what I was told, but I think I was at least 3rd in the chain, and you know how that old gossip game goes.

 

BUT, Ray was very consistent in always saying "free evaluation", nothing about "free treatment"

Edited December 4, 2015 by ORV

[LHT28]

Agree, just passing along what I was told, but I think I was at least 3rd in the chain, and you know how that old gossip game goes.

I just happen to have a price sheet from the medical centre from our May cruise

A visit to the Doctor is $149. :eek::eek: I know I was shocked

it does have a price for a follow up visit but DH was not charged for his follow up with the dr

 

Admission to ICU $195

first 60 mins in critical care is $495

each additional 60 mins is $225

so I am guessing the person must have been very ill if she racked up 3K

 

Our friend got the bug on the May cruise & do not think he was charged when he went to the MC ...will check it out

[kazu]

Medical on O is not cheap.

 

DH went to medical for the cruise crud cough that was going around and it went straight to his chest.

 

The "doctor" tried to add something that would have fought the antibiotics (and DH does know this stuff).

 

His visit was pretty easy - visit, antibiotics for the chest and out.

 

Bill was $365. Seems high to me as I have been on other cruise lines and had the same issue. My bill was $165??

 

Each to their own and hopefully my insurance will cover it. I suspect they will tell me it is over the approved amount. My other bill was fully covered.

[RJB]

Does this look familiar to anyone? http://www.globalindustrial.ca/p/janitorial-maintenance/bathroom/hand-sanitizers/noro-virus-sanitizing-solution-bags-6-pack-80-st702-nor?infoParam.campaignId=T9F&gclid=Cj0KEQiAkIWzBRDK1ayo-Yjt38wBEiQAi7NnP0gyQ3YZ4RrGK12lLQe6vqtRQNYV2uyQIxpQ_AvV5voaAvAb8P8HAQ

 

I don't think cruise lines use the same sanitizer that you can pick up in Wal Mart for $1

 

That is the question. What is in it. Has it been approved by the CDC as being effective? It this what Oceania uses in their hand sanitizers? We usually use them when boarding the ship and anywhere we can find them. Also have our own, but seems they will not do the job so will have to rely on the ships if those are better. Would like to know if there are really better.

[kazu]

Agree, just passing along what I was told, but I think I was at least 3rd in the chain, and you know how that old gossip game goes.

 

BUT, Ray was very consistent in always saying "free evaluation", nothing about "free treatment"

I spoke to a person directly whose wife was treated. Her bill was nearly $2,ooo Another person in the laundry room told me she had had it and her bill was $1,800.

 

Those are first hand comments. Amazing that so few people had Noro and I kept running into them.

[ORV]

I spoke to a person directly whose wife was treated. Her bill was nearly $2,ooo Another person in the laundry room told me she had had it and her bill was $1,800.

 

Those are first hand comments. Amazing that so few people had Noro and I kept running into them.

 

Well, anyone that even mentioned they had it I didn't hear anything else as I ran the other way:eek:

[LHT28]

I spoke to a person directly whose wife was treated. Her bill was nearly $2,ooo Another person in the laundry room told me she had had it and her bill was $1,800.

 

Those are first hand comments. Amazing that so few people had Noro and I kept running into them.

and you wonder how it spread with these people out & about

[robbie21]

I just happen to have a price sheet from the medical centre from our May cruise

A visit to the Doctor is $149. :eek::eek: I know I was shocked

it does have a price for a follow up visit but DH was not charged for his follow up with the dr

 

Admission to ICU $195

first 60 mins in critical care is $495

each additional 60 mins is $225

so I am guessing the person must have been very ill if she racked up 3K

 

Our friend got the bug on the May cruise & do not think he was charged when he went to the MC ...will check it out

 

I hate to have to say this but these rates are cheap! FYI in 2015 the Medicare payment for a new patient with moderately complex decision making (CPT 99204 code for the in group) is around $165 (varies regionally). In many parts of the country Medicare is considered a low payer. In my area United Healthcare pays 12-15% more. And I am talking actual payments not fanciful billing.

 

I did not bother to look up the other codes but I can assure you they are also cheap. Ask anyone who has been through an ER lately.

 

So, buy the damn trip insurance ;)

[fdnycruiser]

We were on the Rivieras inaugural cruise across the Atlantic in 2012. There was a noro virus outbreak which fortunately we didn't contract. The crew did a very good job of containing the outbreak with very little inconvenience. This past Spring we were on 3 segments of the Silver Seas WC,and got food poisoning along with 8 others on a ships tour in Vietnam. We were refunded the price of the tour and received excellent treatment from the ship's medical staff at no charge. However, we never asked for compensation it was just given,and to tell you the truth,I would have paid anything just to get better asap. We didn't miss any ports,but the way we felt we wouldn't have cared. Things happen

[RJB]

We were on the Rivieras inaugural cruise across the Atlantic in 2012. There was a noro virus outbreak which fortunately we didn't contract. The crew did a very good job of containing the outbreak with very little inconvenience. This past Spring we were on 3 segments of the Silver Seas WC,and got food poisoning along with 8 others on a ships tour in Vietnam. We were refunded the price of the tour and received excellent treatment from the ship's medical staff at no charge. However, we never asked for compensation it was just given,and to tell you the truth,I would have paid anything just to get better asap. We didn't miss any ports,but the way we felt we wouldn't have cared. Things happen

 

Yes things happen, but Silver Seas did the right thing. Good will goes a long way to repeat business. Oceania did not do the right thing and they may suffer in the long run. We may never really know.

[Mura]

When we had the Noro outbreak on Marina in April 2015 we were told that medical treatment would be free. My husband did go in and had no bill. That was then, maybe Riviera just now was different. But what was advertised on Marina is what happened.

 

On that cruise, I never heard that people went into the medical center were then whalopped with big bills. (Doesn't mean it didn't happen, just that I didn't hear about it.)

 

I was feeling ill one day (before any announcements happened), confined myself to the cabin, took some OTC meds and was fine the next morning which was when DH took ill (!). He was in quarantine for one day but I'd already left the ship (I was leading a private tour that day) and he was released the next day. Once I got back from the tour we both stayed in the room -- we were in a PH so it was easy enough to order dinner in to the room.

 

Next morning he was fine.

 

Perhaps different ships are handling this differently?

 

Mura

[LHT28]

Mura I agree the ship should not charge people if they have NORO on the ship

By charging them people will not report to the Doctor

 

I asked DH & he said yes our friend that was on the May cruise was charged a few hundred $ for going to the Medical centre when he was sick with noro :eek:

I do not think that is right

 

I am not sure what the doctor does because there is not much you can do just let it run it's course, stay hydrated & stay in your cabin

 

Lyn

[wristband]

I saw the invoices for the two women (who traveled separately and did not know each other). They were in terrible shape, went to the Medical Center as a last resort, then immediately had extensive treatment. They were hooked up to a saline drip along with other medications, constant monitoring and stayed in the MC for a number of days. I met the woman from the LA area on her first night after leaving the Center and to be out on the ship - day 6!

 

Of course, she was relieved to feel better and return to sleep in her cabin. But her bill was nearly $4,000. The other elderly woman had a bill of roughly $3,500 for similar treatment and an extended stay in the MC on deck 4.

 

My point: theirs was no "normal" consult with the doctor. Their condition from the virus demanded a multiple night stay in the Center with constant medical attention. So the cost rose accordingly.

 

The point about the "free" examination is interesting. The Goofball Cruise Director made the announcement sound as if treatment for GI distress would be free. Obviously, as posters here note, the consult is free but then anything beyond that - medication etc - comes at a hefty price.

 

So, if one did not go to the MC for fear of incurring a big cost, then the ship could not and did not tally those sick passengers as part of the total reported to the CDC. I personally know a number of pax who did not go to the Medical Center and self-quarantined b/c they had not been urged to do so in Currents or the daily announcement.

 

Which raises an interesting question: should not housekeeping report to the doctor that a pax is ill and confined to their cabin? There should be a feedback loop on a virus outbreak so that the authorities on board have up to date, accurate information versus those whose condition deteriorates so badly that they have no choice but to seek medical attention.

[wristband]

I am an example of how O will suffer due to on their shabby behavior these past two weeks. When I disembarked Riviera Weds, I swore we will cancel two Riviera cruises booked for 2016 this coming week. See you later.

 

I am not looking for compensation. My anger is the how the situation was handled in such a lame fashion. It would have been nice to have ship authorities be forthright and more proactive - and earlier on - with crew and passengers.

 

The clown car on parade after Funchal was the best advertisement that Oceania has lost its way. The ship was understaffed, service was erratic at times non-existent, and the noro outbreak was handled poorly.

[dibel]

Me too...finished with Oceania and disappointed because I had heard such raving reviews from friends. All I needed was facts and truth.

 

On the laundry being closed, while I agree the 20 for $24 was a good deal under normal circumstances, it occurred to me that Oceania could have extended that gratis since they closed all wash facilities. Then again, I did have second thoughts about using their service given the outbreak.

 

I have to admit that my suitcase is still in the garage and every single piece of clothing has been laundered...shoes cleaned and placed outside for a few days...call me paranoid.

 

The Norovirus wasn't the issue but rather the horrible way it was handled.