Compensation for Riviera Nurovirus Cruise

[hypercafe]

People have many and different options about things. When it comes to cruise comments and opinions I take the ones from people who were on board the trip in question with the most validity.

[LHT28]

While I certainly understand how a virus can spread on a ship, what really shocked me on this cruise was the lack of sanitation enforcement from the very beginning. I've cruised widely but never on Oceania. When we boarded the ship in Barcelona, there was no one to monitor the disinfectant procedures. I continually watched people board the ship after visiting ports with no one from the cruise line monitoring. No warm wash clothes on return unlike what I was used to on other cruises. Even after the outbreak, people were not REQUIRED to sanitize before entering the dining rooms....no one on duty in the gym to monitor. Yesterday, while enroute home, I met a couple on the ship who sailed from Venice to Barcelona. They told me a woman was violently ill on the first cruise and they conjectured that the virus began there...so apparently, Norovirus WAS on the first cruise. If anyone checks the CDC Stats, you'll see that it was far worse than the cruise line let us know. In fact, the real issue is that virtually little information was available. Not good. I put a lot of blame on management for how poorly this cruise was handled. I will not sail this line again.

 

someone reported 6% ill on the crossing earlier in the week

The CDC site showed a bit more now that they have more facts

 

People have to take responsibility for their own actions

If you cannot figure out for yourself to wash your hands when you return to the ship or before you eat & after you use the restrooms then you should stay at home

do people really forget their common sense on vacation

 

Most people are not in kindergarten where they should need to be supervised every step of the way

It is tiring seeing the cruise lines blamed for people that have poor hygiene habits ..do crew really need to stand beside you & squirt you with gel every place you go :eek:

 

KAZU just posted in her live thread that a woman boarded ill but did not bother to report to the medical centre or quarantine herself

 

off my rant

Edited December 3, 2015 by LHT28

[kazu]

While I certainly understand how a virus can spread on a ship, what really shocked me on this cruise was the lack of sanitation enforcement from the very beginning. I've cruised widely but never on Oceania. When we boarded the ship in Barcelona, there was no one to monitor the disinfectant procedures. I continually watched people board the ship after visiting ports with no one from the cruise line monitoring. No warm wash clothes on return unlike what I was used to on other cruises. Even after the outbreak, people were not REQUIRED to sanitize before entering the dining rooms....no one on duty in the gym to monitor. Yesterday, while enroute home, I met a couple on the ship who sailed from Venice to Barcelona. They told me a woman was violently ill on the first cruise and they conjectured that the virus began there...so apparently, Norovirus WAS on the first cruise. If anyone checks the CDC Stats, you'll see that it was far worse than the cruise line let us know. In fact, the real issue is that virtually little information was available. Not good. I put a lot of blame on management for how poorly this cruise was handled. I will not sail this line again.

 

You have mirrored my prior comments and my concerns on board perfectly.

 

I totally agree.

 

People have many and different options about things. When it comes to cruise comments and opinions I take the ones from people who were on board the trip in question with the most validity.

 

 

are your sure you should believe the people that were on board ;) :p (that IS a wink). We were there and tried our best to give the straight scoop.

 

dibel just said it well IMO.

[Emperor Norton]

Wow.

Edited December 3, 2015 by Emperor Norton

[dibel]

To clarify, the management told us we were at 2%. That is far different than the CDC stats.

 

To LHT28, since you responded specifically to my post, it might have been nicer to use a different pronoun than "you" (which I assume means me.) I have more than a kindergarten mentality, practiced diligent hygiene and for the record, did not become ill.

 

My dog in this issue, is not about money. It's how the issue was handled by Oceania. We are all adults and can handle the truth. It's the lack of transparency, untruths and lack of information that irked me.

[RJB]

someone reported 6% ill on the crossing earlier in the week

The CDC site showed a bit more now that they have more facts

 

People have to take responsibility for their own actions

If you cannot figure out for yourself to wash your hands when you return to the ship or before you eat & after you use the restrooms then you should stay at home

do people really forget their common sense on vacation

 

Most people are not in kindergarten where they should need to be supervised every step of the way

It is tiring seeing the cruise lines blamed for people that have poor hygiene habits ..do crew really need to stand beside you & squirt you with gel every place you go :eek:

 

KAZU just posted in her live thread that a woman boarded ill but did not bother to report to the medical centre or quarantine herself

 

off my rant

Very valid comments. What we do in this kind of situation affects many others also. Very selfish not to take a few seconds and do the right thing.

[roothy123]

To clarify, the management told us we were at 2%. That is far different than the CDC stats.

 

To LHT28, since you responded specifically to my post, it might have been nicer to use a different pronoun than "you" (which I assume means me.) I have more than a kindergarten mentality, practiced diligent hygiene and for the record, did not become ill.

 

My dog in this issue, is not about money. It's how the issue was handled by Oceania. We are all adults and can handle the truth. It's the lack of transparency, untruths and lack of information that irked me.

 

Well, I wasn't on the ship, so don't have any idea what info was provided, and when. However, I DID notice that the CDC report was an update, issued Tuesday before the ship arrived in Miami the next morning. The figures were likely updated at that point.

 

Sometimes you just don't know how things will turn out. How often has an airport's estimation of a plane delay changed from 10 minutes to 20 to 30 etc.?

 

There's also a fine line sometimes between communicating adequately and needlessly alarming people.

Edited December 3, 2015 by roothy123

[Mura]

Dibel,

 

I think that you may have over-reacted a bit to Lyn's use of the word "you". She is not given to personal attacks at all and bends over backwards NOT to do so. Unfortunately, most English speakers these days (at least in my experience) use the word "you" in a general way rather than "one". I'm sure she wasn't criticizing you personally.

 

I'm sorry the cruise wasn't what you expected.

 

Mura

[dibel]

Point well taken:) And I did enjoy the cruise given the problems. I'm a firm believer that things that happen while vacationing, sometimes make for interesting memories. The issue for me was how poorly management handled the problem. Perhaps I'm just used to a different standard based on past experiences.

Edited December 3, 2015 by dibel

[wcc19]

While I certainly understand how a virus can spread on a ship, what really shocked me on this cruise was the lack of sanitation enforcement from the very beginning. I've cruised widely but never on Oceania. When we boarded the ship in Barcelona, there was no one to monitor the disinfectant procedures. I continually watched people board the ship after visiting ports with no one from the cruise line monitoring. No warm wash clothes on return unlike what I was used to on other cruises. Even after the outbreak, people were not REQUIRED to sanitize before entering the dining rooms....no one on duty in the gym to monitor. Yesterday, while enroute home, I met a couple on the ship who sailed from Venice to Barcelona. They told me a woman was violently ill on the first cruise and they conjectured that the virus began there...so apparently, Norovirus WAS on the first cruise. If anyone checks the CDC Stats, you'll see that it was far worse than the cruise line let us know. In fact, the real issue is that virtually little information was available. Not good. I put a lot of blame on management for how poorly this cruise was handled. I will not sail this line again.

 

Wow, I was on this cruise and this exactly expresses my thoughts, including the last line that I will not sail this line again.

We are very experienced cruisers and have never seen such non-existent enforcement of hand sanitizing on other lines when boarding or re-boarding from the ports or going into the dining rooms. O is certainly culpable in the spread of the noro by not following normal protocols.

The enjoyment of the cruise is significantly diminished by having half the crew sanitizing instead of doing their normal duties. And also, the ship is a mess with dripping sanitizer everywhere and wet sticky surfaces.

[LHT28]

 

To LHT28, since you responded specifically to my post, it might have been nicer to use a different pronoun than "you" (which I assume means me.) I have more than a kindergarten mentality, practiced diligent hygiene and for the record, did not become ill.

point taken

please replace "YOU" with "PEOPLE"

[LHT28]

In our experience Oceania does not communicate things well

 

when the outbreak started on Marina in May they started wiping down the chairs etc discretely & at the entrance to the Terrace they were making sure people did use the gel or they were not getting in

 

I think their big mistake is not to come out and announce over the PA

maybe something like

" there is an outbreak of Noro (not confirmed ) but PLEASE report to the medical centre if you have symptoms & do wash your hands after using the washroom or before you eat & re boarding the ship "

 

They may try just to not get people overly excitedthat there is a problem which may be the wrong thing to do

Maybe they need a nanny state on the cruise lines

Upon boarding to weed out those that lie on the medical questionnaire about being ill they should confine all passengers to their cabins for minimum of 24hrs

Close the pool & hot tubs, library, computer section for a further 24hrs

Have a crew member in the hall to squirt anyone who leaves the cabin for the duration

:rolleyes:

 

I have been sick a few times due to thoughtless selfish people

I stay in my cabin when I am ill & do not go out spreading the joy to others

 

 

[ORV]

Here's a fact, even after the CDC website showed about 5.8 of the passengers ill one of the main points of contact on the ship(you can figure who that is) told me when I asked him directly that it was only about 2% and was getting better and contained.

 

The points about lack of communication on board are very valid. We are adults and can handle the truth. No need to try to down play it. It was obvious when the additional cleaning and precautions started to anyone that is slightly observant.

 

Unlike others I will cruise O again, but I hope the management learns from their mistakes in communication.

[buggins0402]

In retrospect, it seems that the second life boat drill might have been an opportunity for O to provide another safety warning...providing information as to the outbreak, how the cruisers could help in the prevention and further spread and what O was doing to mitigate the situation.

[Mura]

Some here may call me a cheerleader because I freely admit that O is my favorite cruiseline (based on not very extensive experience elsewhere, but when I find something I like I stick with it). But I don't think I am because I can admit where things are lacking.

 

There have been enough comments here of passengers observing shortcomings -- where O really did not handle the outbreak well -- that I accept them. I'm sorry when first timers say that as a result they will never sail on O again, but I can't fault them for making that decision.

 

We were on board Marina when the virus broke out on the Lima-NYC cruise last April. While I felt they handled it pretty well, it wasn't perfect. I confess that I didn't notice that Jacquie did -- I mean where food and utensils were left out so that just about anyone could handle them. But it did bother me a bit that when the announcements started, it was to say that "more than 2% have reported problems so we have to report the situation to the CDC". Okay, that's all right as far as it goes but I think we all would have liked to know just what numbers we were talking about.

 

It's true that even if the problem isn't rampant on the ship, when food is "overcooked" according to your standards ("one's standards?") or crew are so devoted to sanitizing every square inch or laundry rooms are closed -- well, it has to affect your enjoyment of the cruise.

 

While I don't expect crew to be manning the gangway and ordering me to use the sanitizer (which I always do!) under ordinary circumstances, once there is a problem on board they certainly should. And yes, it wouldn't hurt to have crew reminding people to use the sanitizers when entering a restaurant. (Even if they don't really do the job per some experts here, at least we mere passewgers THINK they do. And if we THINK they do, maybe we won't get sick!)

 

(I'm amazed that the woman who announced to her dinner partners that she'd lied on the embarkation form that she was just fine said anything to anyone. I don't doubt that people lie in that circumstance! But I sure wouldn't announce it to anyone else had I done so.)

 

I won't say any more ... but those of you who were disturbed by what you think O was NOT doing that it should have, please communicate it to the big brass at O. Old timers know that Frank del Rio regularly monitored this board when he was in charge of O but he no longer has the time to do that. I hope (and believe) that someone IS doing so ... but make sure and let them know why you won't be returning. That would be to everyone's benefit.

 

Mura

[PSULion]

I am utterly disguested by how many men I see that do not wash their hands after using the toilet! One time I called a guy out on it and I got a verbal tongue lashing about how I should mind my own business!

 

Its almost like they need one of those nightclub bathroom attendants that are seeking tips to make sure you wash up like your mommy told you to.

 

Of course, this is true everywhere, not only on cruises (yuck!).

 

John

[LHT28]

I am utterly disguested by how many men I see that do not wash their hands after using the toilet! One time I called a guy out on it and I got a verbal tongue lashing about how I should mind my own business!

 

John

Happens in the ladies as well

Must have been raised in a barn where washing up afterwards may not be normal for them

 

YUCK is right :eek:

What people do in their home is one thing but when you are out with others PLEASE WASH YOUR HANDS PEOPLE

[Mura]

Maybe it's partly a matter of having been a child during the polio scares of the '50s. My mother scared us to death with "WASH YOUR HANDS". She is one who would never leave a public rest room without using a paper towel to open the door.

 

Younger people don't seem to have been instructed so thoroughly by their parents.

 

And while many Oceania passengers should be in the age group I'm talking about, maybe they have forgotten!

 

Mura

[RJB]

Some here may call me a cheerleader because I freely admit that O is my favorite cruiseline (based on not very extensive experience elsewhere, but when I find something I like I stick with it). But I don't think I am because I can admit where things are lacking.

 

There have been enough comments here of passengers observing shortcomings -- where O really did not handle the outbreak well -- that I accept them. I'm sorry when first timers say that as a result they will never sail on O again, but I can't fault them for making that decision.

 

We were on board Marina when the virus broke out on the Lima-NYC cruise last April. While I felt they handled it pretty well, it wasn't perfect. I confess that I didn't notice that Jacquie did -- I mean where food and utensils were left out so that just about anyone could handle them. But it did bother me a bit that when the announcements started, it was to say that "more than 2% have reported problems so we have to report the situation to the CDC". Okay, that's all right as far as it goes but I think we all would have liked to know just what numbers we were talking about.

 

It's true that even if the problem isn't rampant on the ship, when food is "overcooked" according to your standards ("one's standards?") or crew are so devoted to sanitizing every square inch or laundry rooms are closed -- well, it has to affect your enjoyment of the cruise.

 

While I don't expect crew to be manning the gangway and ordering me to use the sanitizer (which I always do!) under ordinary circumstances, once there is a problem on board they certainly should. And yes, it wouldn't hurt to have crew reminding people to use the sanitizers when entering a restaurant. (Even if they don't really do the job per some experts here, at least we mere passewgers THINK they do. And if we THINK they do, maybe we won't get sick!)

 

(I'm amazed that the woman who announced to her dinner partners that she'd lied on the embarkation form that she was just fine said anything to anyone. I don't doubt that people lie in that circumstance! But I sure wouldn't announce it to anyone else had I done so.)

 

I won't say any more ... but those of you who were disturbed by what you think O was NOT doing that it should have, please communicate it to the big brass at O. Old timers know that Frank del Rio regularly monitored this board when he was in charge of O but he no longer has the time to do that. I hope (and believe) that someone IS doing so ... but make sure and let them know why you won't be returning. That would be to everyone's benefit.

 

Mura

 

Wow, what a great post. Spot on. Agree with you 100% Not much I can add.

[kazu]

Some here may call me a cheerleader because I freely admit that O is my favorite cruiseline (based on not very extensive experience elsewhere, but when I find something I like I stick with it). But I don't think I am because I can admit where things are lacking.

 

There have been enough comments here of passengers observing shortcomings -- where O really did not handle the outbreak well -- that I accept them. I'm sorry when first timers say that as a result they will never sail on O again, but I can't fault them for making that decision.

 

We were on board Marina when the virus broke out on the Lima-NYC cruise last April. While I felt they handled it pretty well, it wasn't perfect. I confess that I didn't notice that Jacquie did -- I mean where food and utensils were left out so that just about anyone could handle them. But it did bother me a bit that when the announcements started, it was to say that "more than 2% have reported problems so we have to report the situation to the CDC". Okay, that's all right as far as it goes but I think we all would have liked to know just what numbers we were talking about.

 

It's true that even if the problem isn't rampant on the ship, when food is "overcooked" according to your standards ("one's standards?") or crew are so devoted to sanitizing every square inch or laundry rooms are closed -- well, it has to affect your enjoyment of the cruise.

 

While I don't expect crew to be manning the gangway and ordering me to use the sanitizer (which I always do!) under ordinary circumstances, once there is a problem on board they certainly should. And yes, it wouldn't hurt to have crew reminding people to use the sanitizers when entering a restaurant. (Even if they don't really do the job per some experts here, at least we mere passewgers THINK they do. And if we THINK they do, maybe we won't get sick!)

 

(I'm amazed that the woman who announced to her dinner partners that she'd lied on the embarkation form that she was just fine said anything to anyone. I don't doubt that people lie in that circumstance! But I sure wouldn't announce it to anyone else had I done so.)

 

I won't say any more ... but those of you who were disturbed by what you think O was NOT doing that it should have, please communicate it to the big brass at O. Old timers know that Frank del Rio regularly monitored this board when he was in charge of O but he no longer has the time to do that. I hope (and believe) that someone IS doing so ... but make sure and let them know why you won't be returning. That would be to everyone's benefit.

 

Mura

 

Great post Mura.

 

As to the lady who confessed, on the last night what has she got to lose? that was the first confession as far as I know.

 

I will not say this is our last O cruise, but we will not be rushihg to book one right away. And we will need eith some assurance or a better price - LOL

 

I can assure you that if I don't write, DH who is a quiet man and NEVER complains will write so to keep it objective, I think it is best I do it ;)

Edited December 4, 2015 by kazu

[robbie21]

Wow, I was on this cruise and this exactly expresses my thoughts, including the last line that I will not sail this line again.

We are very experienced cruisers and have never seen such non-existent enforcement of hand sanitizing on other lines when boarding or re-boarding from the ports or going into the dining rooms. O is certainly culpable in the spread of the noro by not following normal protocols.

The enjoyment of the cruise is significantly diminished by having half the crew sanitizing instead of doing their normal duties. And also, the ship is a mess with dripping sanitizer everywhere and wet sticky surfaces.

 

As has been reported repeatedly the alcohol based hand sanitizers are completely ineffective for noro or any other virus. That is an established scientific fact. The dripping sanitizer you refer to actually does kill the virus. I am sorry they did not expend sufficient effort in enforcing a useless protocol to make you feel better and I am also sorry that the actual cleaning and sanitizing offended you. Perhaps you should take some personal initiative and wash your hands with soap before you go to dinner. Viruses are tough bugs to kill. Heavy duty cleaners are needed.

[Christine Frances]

As has been reported repeatedly the alcohol based hand sanitizers are completely ineffective for noro or any other virus. That is an established scientific fact. The dripping sanitizer you refer to actually does kill the virus. I am sorry they did not expend sufficient effort in enforcing a useless protocol to make you feel better and I am also sorry that the actual cleaning and sanitizing offended you. Perhaps you should take some personal initiative and wash your hands with soap before you go to dinner. Viruses are tough bugs to kill. Heavy duty cleaners are needed.

 

 

Hand Sanitizer is recommended by the CDC as a "good second choice". http://www.cdc.gov/features/cruiseshiptravel/

[hypercafe]

As has been reported repeatedly the alcohol based hand sanitizers are completely ineffective for noro or any other virus. That is an established scientific fact. The dripping sanitizer you refer to actually does kill the virus. I am sorry they did not expend sufficient effort in enforcing a useless protocol to make you feel better and I am also sorry that the actual cleaning and sanitizing offended you. Perhaps you should take some personal initiative and wash your hands with soap before you go to dinner. Viruses are tough bugs to kill. Heavy duty cleaners are needed.

 

I just looked at the CDC site and Web MD. they both say the same thing about hand sanitizers,

 

What about alcohol-based hand sanitizers?

 

CDC recommends that cruise ship passengers use warm water and soap to wash their hands. Washing is always best.

If water and soap are NOT available (perhaps on excursions), use an ethanol alcohol-based hand sanitizer, preferably in a gel form. The sanitizer should be at least 60% ethanol.

 

I have read many times here that they are useless, I do not believe it and use them and would say all should.

[LHT28]

I use the gel getting on the ship again after going through the xray check & then go to my cabin & wash my hands with soap & water

 

I rarely use the public washrooms onboard but go back to my cabin ...I WASH MY HANDS with soap & water

[buggins0402]

Perhaps the CDC's fear is that some passengers think that the squirts and gels are a substitute for hand washing and therefore don't wash their hands when they should?