What SHOULD HAL's dress code be on Gala night?

[Blue Mudshark]

formal (business suit or better)

I don't think that makes a good rule, because it seems to be ambiguous and/or self-contradictory.

 

"Formal" has a pretty standard meaning, and it does not include business suits, which are semiformal. This illustrates that "formal" is used in a variety of ways; people seem to make up their own definitions. It apparently has caused years of confusion that HAL used the term "formal" for dress that is not formal. If you want to say "business suit", it would be best to simply leave it at that. Adding "formal", used in a non-standard way, adds ambiguity and contradiction, and casts doubt on both "business suit", because that's not formal, and "formal", because that does not include business suits.

 

As for "business suit or better", many may consider black tie to be "better". But it's pretty obvious that many consider shorts and T-shirts better than a business suit. So that's ambiguous as well.

 

Whatever the rule is, I believe that must be unambiguous, self-consistent, and strictly enforced, or there isn't really any rule at all. "Formal (business suit or better)" doesn't measure up.

 

I'd be fine if it were black tie, enforced by the maître d'. Suit and tie would be OK as well, for me. In my world, refusing to dress up for a dressy event is considered immature, and nothing screams "nine-year-old at a wedding" more than a shirt and tie with no jacket.

 

For women, formal wear seems to be pretty complicated. Cocktail dress or gown? What color? How different must it be from the last comparable event? It a new dress needed? What jewelry or other accessories? I'd be befuddled by it all. For gentlemen, black die is dead easy. I know exactly what to wear, no decisions required. If there are black tie events on consecutive nights, I can wear the exact same thing. All I have to worry about is whether it's suitably clean and pressed.

 

So, looking back on all these many lengthy discussions, it seems almost comical that the majority of complaints about formality seem to come from men. Women; for whom it is much more difficult, complicated, and time-consuming, and in the long run, more costly; don't seem to be nearly as resistant to dressing up.

[ellieanne]

So, looking back on all these many lengthy discussions, it seems almost comical that the majority of complaints about formality seem to come from men. Women; for whom it is much more difficult, complicated, and time-consuming, and in the long run, more costly; don't seem to be nearly as resistant to dressing up.

 

Could that be because women's dressy wear (whether cocktail, formal, Sunday best, or otherwise) has the potential to be more comfortable and less restricting that jackets and ties? I know my father and brothers, as well as other men, complain about jackets limiting range of motion. And many men I know complain about the constrictive nature of ties. Now it could be that their clothes are ill-fitting, but I doubt that's the explanation for all the complaints.

 

Women's wear can be looser and less constrictive. Of course, not all of it is, I have been in some really uncomfortable bridesmaid's dresses, but there is a potential for less restrictive designs in women's dressy wear.

Edited December 3, 2015 by ellieanne

[Blue Mudshark]

Could that be because women's dressy wear (whether cocktail, formal, Sunday best, or otherwise) has the potential to be more comfortable and less restricting that jackets and ties? I know my father and brothers, as well as other men, complain about jackets limiting range of motion. And many men I know complain about the constrictive nature of ties. Now it could be that their clothes are ill-fitting, but I doubt that's the explanation for all the complaints.

 

Women's wear can be looser and less constrictive. Of course, not all of it is, I have been in some really uncomfortable bridesmaid's dresses, but there is a potential for less restrictive designs in women's dressy wear.

 

An uncomfortably restrictive jacket or tie almost always indicates a jacket or collar that doesn't fit properly or a tie that isn't properly tied. These issues are trivially easy to remedy. Sometimes I'm in black tie, not for social reasons, but for professional reasons, and I absolutely need to have complete freedom of arm and shoulder movement, and/or a properly fitted collar and tie that is not constrictive. Rather than complain about the fit of my tux, I went to competent tailor, and had him alter it so it met my needs. As the years have had their way with me, I've had it let out here and there, and it fits now as well as it did when it was new.

 

For social events, one of the biggest advantages to black tie is that the ladies seem to really like it, and when I'm a lady's escort, she always seems to thing that my tux makes her look better, as well as me. I can't see any downside there!

Edited December 3, 2015 by Blue Mudshark

[POA1]

Could that be because women's dressy wear (whether cocktail, formal, Sunday best, or otherwise) has the potential to be more comfortable and less restricting that jackets and ties? I know my father and brothers, as well as other men, complain about jackets limiting range of motion. And many men I know complain about the constrictive nature of ties. Now it could be that their clothes are ill-fitting, but I doubt that's the explanation for all the complaints.

 

Women's wear can be looser and less constrictive. Of course, not all of it is, I have been in some really uncomfortable bridesmaid's dresses, but there is a potential for less restrictive designs in women's dressy wear.

 

I'll go out on a limb and say, "I think not." I don't know if there are women in your life or not, but if there are, odds are they already know how to dress. Those heels aren't designed for comfort. They're designed for style.

 

I keep hearing this whining nonsense about collars and ties. Measure your neck. Add half an inch. It'll do wonders for your comfort.

 

As far as the "range of motion" thing... Are you expecting Highland Games to break out? It's not like you're about to compete in the caber toss. If you can't move in your jacket, it's too small. Period.

 

If I offended any women, who always dress for comfort, I apologize. (You'd be lying though.)

[POA1]

An uncomfortably restrictive jacket or tie almost always indicates a jacket or collar that doesn't fit properly or a tie that isn't properly tied. These issues are trivially easy to remedy. Sometimes I'm in black tie, not for social reasons, but for professional reasons, and I absolutely need to have complete freedom of arm and shoulder movement, and/or a properly fitted collar and tie that is not constrictive. Rather than complain about the fit of my tux, I went to competent tailor, and had him alter it so it met my needs.

 

For social events, one of the biggest advantages to black tie is that the ladies seem to really like it, and when I'm a lady's escort, she always seems to thing that my tux makes her look better, as well as me. I can't see any downside there!

Sorry. I posted basically the same thing, but you beat me to the punch.

[Blue Mudshark]

Sorry. I posted basically the same thing, but you beat me to the punch.

But you mentioned the shoes, which is a better counter-argument than anything I posted!

[chefestelle]

I agree with this policy 100%. Elect this man CEO! He reminds me of Cary Grant!

 

 

Same. Except maybe not every night. Or if every night, then just one sitting at a time suited to formal dining

[Blue Mudshark]

I agree with this policy 100%. Elect this man CEO! He reminds me of Cary Grant!

Cary Grant????!!!!???? Whhaaaaat???

 

I'm pretty sure he would have gone for black tie, every evening, in the main dining room. He was big on black tie, and he looked great in it. He is one of the most classic examples of man who did black tie right.

[RocketMan275]

Could that be because women's dressy wear (whether cocktail, formal, Sunday best, or otherwise) has the potential to be more comfortable and less restricting that jackets and ties? I know my father and brothers, as well as other men, complain about jackets limiting range of motion. And many men I know complain about the constrictive nature of ties. Now it could be that their clothes are ill-fitting, but I doubt that's the explanation for all the complaints.

 

Women's wear can be looser and less constrictive. Of course, not all of it is, I have been in some really uncomfortable bridesmaid's dresses, but there is a potential for less restrictive designs in women's dressy wear.

 

It could also be that many women do not wear cocktail dresses or gowns but opt instead for that staple of formal wear, the "sparkly top with a pair of nice black pants".

[RocketMan275]

An uncomfortably restrictive jacket or tie almost always indicates a jacket or collar that doesn't fit properly or a tie that isn't properly tied. These issues are trivially easy to remedy. Sometimes I'm in black tie, not for social reasons, but for professional reasons, and I absolutely need to have complete freedom of arm and shoulder movement, and/or a properly fitted collar and tie that is not constrictive. Rather than complain about the fit of my tux, I went to competent tailor, and had him alter it so it met my needs. As the years have had their way with me, I've had it let out here and there, and it fits now as well as it did when it was new.

 

For social events, one of the biggest advantages to black tie is that the ladies seem to really like it, and when I'm a lady's escort, she always seems to thing that my tux makes her look better, as well as me. I can't see any downside there!

 

I'm uncomfortable in a jacket and tie not because of the fit but because of the fact that I do not enjoy wearing a jacket and tie. If you do not enjoy wearing a particular item of dress, you will be 'uncomfortable' regardless of how well it fits.

[erewhon]

The formal night menu is so poor now I don't feel it warrants dressing up.

 

During our recent cruise, on the first of the 3 "Gala" nights, there were no flowers on the tables, no white covers on the chairs until the third evening, and the menu choice each night was somewhat disappointing.

[MisterFidgetpants]

I actually welcome the new gala wear. To me it indicates festive. I have no issue wearing khakis and a button up shirt. But on vacation I'm just not interested in wearing a suit and tie to dinner. I really see no reason personally for it, although I think it is fine if anyone else wants to; I say do it.

 

If anything the new policy is attracting me to look more closely at HAL

[Boytjie]

If I was the CEO of HAL, I would set up a specialty restaurant, such as Pinnacle Grill, and require formal (business suit or better) every night there. And do away with the Gala Night in the main dining room.

People who wanted it could have their formal night whenever they want, and know that everyone else in the restaurant will do the same.

People who didn't want to dress formal could enjoy themselves in the Main Dining Room every night. I would still require smart casual in the MDR.

 

 

Well, why should people who don't care to dress to the nines be denied access to the specialty restaurants? There is always Cunard.

[cbr663]

I actually welcome the new gala wear. To me it indicates festive. I have no issue wearing khakis and a button up shirt. But on vacation I'm just not interested in wearing a suit and tie to dinner. I really see no reason personally for it, although I think it is fine if anyone else wants to; I say do it.

 

If anything the new policy is attracting me to look more closely at HAL

 

I also like the update. It is certainly more appropriate for the evening that HAL offers.

[Boytjie]

I'll go out on a limb and say, "I think not." I don't know if there are women in your life or not, but if there are, odds are they already know how to dress. Those heels aren't designed for comfort. They're designed for style.

 

I keep hearing this whining nonsense about collars and ties. Measure your neck. Add half an inch. It'll do wonders for your comfort.

 

As far as the "range of motion" thing... Are you expecting Highland Games to break out? It's not like you're about to compete in the caber toss. If you can't move in your jacket, it's too small. Period.

 

If I offended any women, who always dress for comfort, I apologize. (You'd be lying though.)

 

Somebody buy this man a drink!

[The-Inside-Cabin]

The purpose of this thread is for people to propose the wording for their ideal dress code. Please don't discuss enforcement or lack there of. Don't digress into why or why not anyone should have to comply with any particular code or the evils that will occur if people don't comply.

 

For the purposes of this thread, assume perfect enforcement by HAL.

 

Many people say the current code is confusing or wrong. This is your chance to propose the PERFECT dress code.

[Boytjie]

The purpose of this thread is for people to propose the wording for their ideal dress code. Please don't discuss enforcement or lack there of. Don't digress into why or why not anyone should have to comply with any particular code or the evils that will occur if people don't comply.

 

For the purposes of this thread, assume perfect enforcement by HAL.

 

Many people say the current code is confusing or wrong. This is your chance to propose the PERFECT dress code.

 

Good luck controlling what people discuss on your thread. :rolleyes:

[cruz chic]

It could also be that many women do not wear cocktail dresses or gowns but opt instead for that staple of formal wear, the "sparkly top with a pair of nice black pants".

 

Not every woman dresses like that. To me that's on the casual side of "gala".

[3rdGenCunarder]

I'll go out on a limb and say, "I think not." I don't know if there are women in your life or not, but if there are, odds are they already know how to dress. Those heels aren't designed for comfort. They're designed for style.

 

I keep hearing this whining nonsense about collars and ties. Measure your neck. Add half an inch. It'll do wonders for your comfort.

 

As far as the "range of motion" thing... Are you expecting Highland Games to break out? It's not like you're about to compete in the caber toss. If you can't move in your jacket, it's too small. Period.

 

If I offended any women, who always dress for comfort, I apologize. (You'd be lying though.)

 

Gimme a LIKE button!

 

I would like to see suit (sport coat if you really don't own a suite) and tie for men (or tux if they prefer) and cocktail dresses or gowns for women. I think it adds ambiance and it really isn't difficult to do.

 

I can live with "smart casual," but I'd like to see it throughout the ship in the evening. Some of the people I saw on the first gala night (not in MDR) in September were downright sloppy. It was a port day, it was hot, and they looked like they hadn't bothered to shower or change before going to the Lido for dinner.

 

I can't swear that I always dress for comfort, but I can manage to be pretty close and NOT default to "nice pants and sparkly tops."

 

Evening wear can be comfortable for both sexes. I don't know why men can't find clothing that fits, it's all by actual measurements. That's so easy! Women have to contend with abstract numbers that vary from one dress to another or one designer to another, yet somehow we manage. Maybe part of it is that many women enjoy shopping and trying on clothes, while most men I know do not.

 

I'm a good shopper and I have found cocktail dresses and evening gowns that fit, look nice, and are comfortable. Maybe not as comfortable as slouching around the house in sweats, but not tight, constricting, chafing, etc. And they look way better than my sweats.

 

I even have dressy shoes that are comfortable. I am proud to say that I can walk a straight line in my high heels even when the ship is rolling. I can stand at a cocktail party for an hour and not be desperate to kick off my shoes. And I've noticed that dressing up and putting on a pair of heels instantly improves my posture. And it makes me feel good.

[MisterFidgetpants]

The purpose of this thread is for people to propose the wording for their ideal dress code. Please don't discuss enforcement or lack there of. Don't digress into why or why not anyone should have to comply with any particular code or the evils that will occur if people don't comply.

 

For the purposes of this thread, assume perfect enforcement by HAL.

 

Many people say the current code is confusing or wrong. This is your chance to propose the PERFECT dress code.

 

"You are cordially invited to partake in our Gala evening. We will be featuring special chef selected specialties (they should do this), live entertainment in our dining rooms (they should do this) and special celebratory events throughout the ship (they should do this).

 

Prepare by dressing for the occasion; shorts not allowed on Gala evening for men or women* (except for Bermuda and Caribbean itineraries), long pants and collared shirts on men are appropriate, but we will leave the rest up to you. Want to relax with a button up festive shirt and casual trousers or little black dress? Enjoy! Want to take it up a notch? Feel free to shine! Want to be resplendent with tuxedos and gowns? You are welcome to. Our gala evening creates a festive mood for everyone to enjoy themselves.

 

We will have masks, beads, and other fun dress up items for special photo opportunities. So prepare for a fun, exciting, and special evening"

 

Bing bang boom.

[hunt182644]

I'll have the demerits please with a side order of demerits.:D

[serendipity1499]

Current wording is fine with me. HAL just needs to have people follow the policy. On our recent Voyage of the Vikings we had folks in shorts and T-shirts on Gala nights.

 

No way. People don't do that :D;). Some haven't seen that so it just doesn't happen:rolleyes:.

 

Love it Cruz chic!:rolleyes:

 

The present wording is fine with me..

 

On our Eurodam Carib. cruise last week DH was one of the few in a suit w/tie on gala nights.. Many others wore jackets sans ties or were a bit more casual.. DH often wears either a jacket or sweater on Smart casual nights, because he is tall & thin, is always cold in the MDR & when out & about on the ship..

 

On the other hand I left my long dresses home...On a long cruise I would take my long dresses & DH would probably take his Tux..Instead of sparkly tops with black pants on gala nights, I wore sparkly tops with a long black skirt.. IMO black pants are not dressy at all unless they are made of chiffon, lace, organza etc. .. Unfortunately since having a my hip operation I can no longer wear high heels, & envy those who still can wear heels...;) I compensated by wearing dressy flats without hose.. When I wore heels I always wore hose..

Edited December 3, 2015 by serendipity1499

[JPH814]

It is the age of computers and real time interaction. I would like to see a cruise line take advantage of this.

 

On land, there are ranges of options for eating. Everything from a McDonalds to grab a burger to elegant restaurants that – yes – require a suit and tie and hold special events that require formal attire. Every day, people decide what they want to do and make a decision. Some venues you can walk into unannounced. Others require reservations in advance.

 

I would like to see a cruise line establish multiple venues with a dress code for each. For some, you can just show up any time you want wearing anything you want. For others, you sign up – like an excursion – as part of the pre-cruise check in we all do.

 

Once or twice a week, you can have a theme dinner of some sort that requires you to dress formally if you want to attend. Depending on the response, this might take place in the Pinnacle Grille or one part of the main dining room. Or it may begin with a formal reception in a specific lounge followed by a dinner. They can be capacity controlled – if they only hold 200 people, the first 200 people who sign up can attend.

 

And the dress codes would be strictly enforced.

Edited December 3, 2015 by JPH814

[JPH814]

Well, why should people who don't care to dress to the nines be denied access to the specialty restaurants? There is always Cunard.

 

Well, why should people who don't follow the dress code be allowed access to the specialty restaurants? There is always Carnival

[Boytjie]

Well, why should people who don't follow the dress code be allowed access to the specialty restaurants? There is always Carnival

 

That was not the poster wanted (following the dress code), the poster wanted to impose a new dress code making the Pinnacle Grill formal all the time.

Edited December 3, 2015 by Boytjie