Noro-Virus Opinion

[sail7seas]

 

 

<snip>

I've always wondered this though, if you don't wash your own hands after going to the bathroom, can you make yourself sick? The germs came from your own body. Or when you get sick, do the doctors just assume you picked it up from someone else? I mean if someone consistently has poor hygiene, I would think they would get sick more often. Do they?

 

 

 

I am no authority but am sure I have previously read on these forums your own germs from not washing won't infect you. DO not accept this as absolute fact.

 

[sail7seas]

John, did same thing once while waiting for friend in HAL ladies room. Watched 6 or more old ladies walk out, no wash. I finally screamed at them" You old ladies are the ones who make us sick; wash your hands" They looked at me like I was from Mars.. Average cruiser jerk has not even heard of Noro. Several years later I contacted Noro at my local Senior Center in Aspen. True Noro lasts 3 days. I had racking abdominal pains for 3 days.Skin even hurt. It was like labor. Complained to management, they were clueless. I also fault cruise management for not having cleaners cleaning door knobs and toilet flush knobs. When was last time you saw them clean these?I avoid public rest rooms.

 

I agree there is a lot of Noro in Senior Centers but to suggest '6 old ladies' spread Noro on your ship is a far reach. All the women who walked out of the restroom without washing were old?

 

Sorry but I have a thing about such generalizations. :o

 

[BeagleOne]

 

I've always wondered this though, if you don't wash your own hands after going to the bathroom, can you make yourself sick? The germs came from your own body. Or when you get sick, do the doctors just assume you picked it up from someone else? I mean if someone consistently has poor hygiene, I would think they would get sick more often. Do they?

 

Yes, you can get sick from your own germs. Our bodies harbor lots and lots of bacteria, and they are generally harmless if they stay where they belong. For example, our skin is covered with Staphylococcus aureus bacteria, which help fight off infections. BUT if there is a break in the skin, and the Staph gets in, it can cause an infection itself, either in the local area or systemically.

 

E. coli, the main colon bacteria, is generally harmless, but there is one subtype, O157:H7, that can be deadly, and others that can cause less severe disease. If the E. coli gets somewhere else on your body, like your urinary tract (a problem mostly in women, especially if they wipe in the wrong direction, sorry to be a bit graphic) or in your mouth from poor hygiene, it can cause problems.

[dsrdsrdsr]

I mean if someone consistently has poor hygiene, I would think they would get sick more often. Do they?

 

No. The reverse. People with poor hygiene are sick less often than the quality people on this thread, for two reasons.

 

1. They (or some of them) have built up a healthy immunity, which people who avoid germs have not, or not to the same extent. Therefore they don't get sick so easily.

 

2. If people with poor hygiene kept getting sick, they would improve their hygiene; therefore if they still have poor hygiene, it's a pretty sure sign they're continually healthy.

[sail7seas]

Yes, you can get sick from your own germs. Our bodies harbor lots and lots of bacteria, and they are generally harmless if they stay where they belong. For example, our skin is covered with Staphylococcus aureus bacteria, which help fight off infections. BUT if there is a break in the skin, and the Staph gets in, it can cause an infection itself, either in the local area or systemically.

 

E. coli, the main colon bacteria, is generally harmless, but there is one subtype, O157:H7, that can be deadly, and others that can cause less severe disease. If the E. coli gets somewhere else on your body, like your urinary tract (a problem mostly in women, especially if they wipe in the wrong direction, sorry to be a bit graphic) or in your mouth from poor hygiene, it can cause problems.

 

Great post.

What about specifically noro like viruses?

 

[cbr663]

It is my understanding that the noro virus has to be ingested in order for it to cause harm to humans. While it can survive on hard surfaces in the proper environment, as long as we don't ingest it, it cannot get into the digestive tract where it causes havoc.

 

When getting better of the virus, you also develop an immunity to that strain of the virus. However, this immunity can be short lived for some people and they can become infected once again. This is one of the risks of taking longer cruises where different people are joining and leaving the ship on a regular basis. A new passenger may unknowingly be boarding with a different strain.

[sail7seas]

:confused: I thought we can contract Noro virus touching a contaminated spot and then putting that hand at eye, nose, mouth.... an entry portal to get the virus in the body. Ingestion of the virus would result from the mouth but eyes/nose?

 

[fishywood]

It is my understanding that the noro virus has to be ingested in order for it to cause harm to humans. While it can survive on hard surfaces in the proper environment, as long as we don't ingest it, it cannot get into the digestive tract where it causes havoc.

 

 

Not necessarily "ingested"--the most common way it spreads on a ships is by touching an infected surface and then putting your fingers to any of your mucous membranes: eyes, nose, mouth, and <ahem> plumbing. So getting confrontational with a slob who doesn't wash their hands when leaving the public restroom is a waste of your energy: he's only going to make himself sick, not you--as long as you washed your hands.

 

So while the CDC technically does classify noro as a food-borne virus, the idea that "ingesting" it is the only way, or even the primary way, it is spread is a misnomer. When 'code red' precautions are underway in the buffet there is no need to avoid it; no longer touching the self-serve instruments means you are more likely to touch an infected surface on the pool deck--or of course in a public restroom. (Which brings us full circle back to the OP: if other people's lack of hygiene bugs you so much, best to confine yourself to using your cabin bathroom).

[cbr663]

:confused: I thought we can contract Noro virus touching a contaminated spot and then putting that hand at eye, nose, mouth.... an entry portal to get the virus in the body. Ingestion of the virus would result from the mouth but eyes/nose?

 

 

I don't think touching an eye would spread noro. Please see this link: http://www.health.gov.on.ca/english/providers/pub/disease/noroviruses.html

 

This link also notes that you have to ingest the virus into your gastro-intestinal system: http://www.virusafe.co.uk/page.asp?pageidx=48

Edited January 3, 2016 by cbr663
Add second link

[Flatbush Flyer]

My thoughts on this subject are always the same. Why worry about the buffet? The same people who don't wash their hands and then go to the buffet also go everywhere else. They touch door handles, stair railings and so much more.

 

 

 

Do you go to the grocery store? Dirtiest place around. People go to the store in any condition and touch everything. Touch their mouths or runny noses and then touch everything. Little kids are put in the carts with dirty shoes or dirty diapers. The grocery store is probably where I caught the Norovirus. I had been to work and no one there was sick before or after and the grocery store was the only other place I went before I went home.

 

 

 

Of course, you go home from the grocery store and wash your food. And that is my answer. Wash YOUR hands, don't touch your face (especially if ill). Wash before and after eating. Open the bathroom door with a paper towel. You cannot control everyone but you can do a lot to reduce your chances of getting sick.

 

 

 

In answer to your question: No I probably would not have said anything to the individual.

 

 

Why worry about the buffet? As you said, you wash the food from the grocery store. But the food from the buffet goes directly into your mouth. Stop "self serving" at ship buffets and it will put a tremendous dent in norovirus transmission.

[donaldsc]

He should have washed and you should have shut up. Saying something accomplished nothing and if he was the "do not wash" type, your comment may have made itmore likely that he would continue not to wash.

 

Did you actually think that he was going to go back and wash.

 

DON

[Mickfarland4]

JMHO, but, I run a small daycare here at the house and at least 4 weeks ago, (probably more since my Mom passed away then, I believe it was probably before and I didn't have time to run to Walmart for replacement soap while she was ill) I ran out of all antibacterial soaps. Since then, the kids have been washing their hands with Dove...we have not had one cold, virus, or other illness go through here, which is highly unlikely in the winter months. In past years, there was never a week where someone didn't have a cold. I do believe that ALL people should wash their hands before leaving any restroom, especially public restrooms, but, I am beginning to believe our obsession with antibacterial is killing the good germs on our hands, thus spreading more illnesses. But, as I said, that's just my opinion. In your situation, I would've been grossed out and rolled my eyes, but, I do not confront anyone, anywhere, ever. I don't trust people to not go crazy in this day and age. :o

[Mickfarland4]

I use a towel as well. On thing that is great on Crystal is that they have containers on the wall with small wipes to open the door with. I wish every cruise line would either do that or make sure there is a trash can near the door.

 

I flush with my foot, use a towel, coat or even my shirt sleeve if all else fails and I can not use my elbow. ;) Even my sons use their elbows now! LOL!

[GUT2407]

I flush with my foot, use a towel, coat or even my shirt sleeve if all else fails and I can not use my elbow. ;) Even my sons use their elbows now! LOL!

 

How do you flush with your foot?

 

On DP last month the main door was left open.

 

I guess it won't be long till they build them without doors.

[sail7seas]

I flush with my foot, use a towel, coat or even my shirt sleeve if all else fails and I can not use my elbow. ;) Even my sons use their elbows now! LOL!

 

You are kidding, Right? :D :D Pulling our leg?

 

You put your shoe on the toilet flush knob? What??? So the next persons who uses the toilet after you, get the treat of having had your dirty shoe sole on the toilet?

 

I have to be misunderstanding. :eek:

 

It's certainly easy enough to take a bit of toilet tissue to operate the flush. No need to put dirty shoes.

 

Edited January 3, 2016 by sail7seas

[Langley Cruisers]

You are kidding, Right? :D :D Pulling our leg? ...You put your shoe on the toilet flush knob? What??? So the next persons who uses the toilet after you, get the treat of having had your dirty shoe sole on the toilet?

 

Upon occasion, I also use my foot to flush. Surely you realize where "that hand" has been? :rolleyes: It's not as unsanitary as you think it is to flush with a shoe on and as far as I'm concerned, both are disgusting options but so is why we're in there. :(

 

Anyway, IMO it's a moot point if you are washing your hands afterward. :)

[damiross]

Mind your own business.

He could be one who likes to use a hand sanitizer instead of water and was returning to his room to get it. Or, more likely, he was taught how not to pee on his hands when doing his business.:)

[Mickfarland4]

How do you flush with your foot?

 

On DP last month the main door was left open.

 

I guess it won't be long till they build them without doors.

 

I just lift my foot and flush the toilet. :D Obviously, this is only on the handle type flushers.

[Mickfarland4]

You are kidding, Right? :D :D Pulling our leg?

 

You put your shoe on the toilet flush knob? What??? So the next persons who uses the toilet after you, get the treat of having had your dirty shoe sole on the toilet?

 

I have to be misunderstanding. :eek:

 

It's certainly easy enough to take a bit of toilet tissue to operate the flush. No need to put dirty shoes.

 

 

Just as it's certainly easy enough to wash their hands after they flush. I am very "germ aware" and always go to the restroom just to wash my hands after reading menus too. I do not want my hand on the handle and I also do not wish to waste any tp when I have a perfectly good foot to do the dirty work for me. I see far too many people go to the bathroom and not wash their hands, so it is my call when I use a public toilet to use my foot to flush it. My concern at that moment is for my own well being, other people can look after their own well being by washing their hands after they touch the handle I used my foot to flush. :)

[Langley Cruisers]

I just lift my foot and flush the toilet. :D Obviously, this is only on the handle type flushers.

 

The toilets on Royal Caribbean are the knob-type flushers, very easy to activate with a shoe. :)

[dsrdsrdsr]

JI am very "germ aware" and always go to the restroom just to wash my hands after reading menus too.

 

I hope you take your knives and forks with you and wash them too. How on earth do you manage not to touch the furniture - do you literally sit there with your hands in the air and wait for the waiter if you want to move your chair an inch? How do you manage with the plates - do you ensure that your knife and fork never touch the surface of the plate? What happens if you want to finish your soup, but you can't allow yourself to tilt the bowl? If someone on your table asks you to pass the salt, do you (politely) tell them to get it themself?

[Mickfarland4]

I hope you take your knives and forks with you and wash them too. How on earth do you manage not to touch the furniture - do you literally sit there with your hands in the air and wait for the waiter if you want to move your chair an inch? How do you manage with the plates - do you ensure that your knife and fork never touch the surface of the plate? What happens if you want to finish your soup, but you can't allow yourself to tilt the bowl? If someone on your table asks you to pass the salt, do you (politely) tell them to get it themself?

 

Oh, give me a break, just because I said I am "germ aware" and make sure to wash my hands after touching menus doesn't mean I am a freak! Menus are probably the most disgusting thing in a restaurant. My knife, fork, booth, and table are wiped down a heck of a lot more than that menu is.

[Mickfarland4]

The toilets on Royal Caribbean are the knob-type flushers, very easy to activate with a shoe. :)

 

Good to know! :p

[luddite]

Mind your own business.

He could be one who likes to use a hand sanitizer instead of water and was returning to his room to get it. Or, more likely, he was taught how not to pee on his hands when doing his business.:)

 

What a pantload.

It is everyone's business.

[dsrdsrdsr]

Oh, give me a break, just because I said I am "germ aware" and make sure to wash my hands after touching menus doesn't mean I am a freak! Menus are probably the most disgusting thing in a restaurant. My knife, fork, booth, and table are wiped down a heck of a lot more than that menu is.

 

The top of the table is wiped down between every meal, I dare say. How often do they wipe the edge of the table and the sides and back of the chairs?