My letter to NCL

[SteveH2508]

Any halfway decent database administrator could knock together the SQL to run a query returning all passengers who have total OBC >$1000 and are billed in Canadian dollars.

 

Oh wait, this is NCL's IT systems we are talking about...:rolleyes:

[titangas]

Any halfway decent database administrator could knock together the SQL to run a query returning all passengers who have total OBC >$1000 and are billed in Canadian dollars.

 

Oh wait, this is NCL's IT systems we are talking about...:rolleyes:

 

Exactly.

 

It is also doubtful that all of the itineraries are linked in a single database.

They would also have to do more than just sort OBC, as a lot of OBC is in the form of booking promos and TA's.

 

I am not defending NCL's handling of this, they obviously decided to close this "loophole" immediately - but were not prepared to handle the refunding of those over the limit immediately.

 

I just don't think it is some NCL conspiracy to hold onto the passenger's dollars as long as possible.

[titangas]

My red letters were to use to differentiate my answers to your post - nothing more, so don't read into it soooo much...

 

I knew what it was, which is why I responded to it.

 

Which is why I said it is ignorance to think just because they can let individual sailings passengers know - a week or two before sailing that they are over the limit, that they have a program that can spit out that information sorted out from the hundreds of thousands of cabins booked at this time.

[NLH Arizona]

Are you really going to use $5000 in OBC? I don't think so! You are using NCL as an exchange bank. Frankly I hope they keep your money forever. I have heard of Ugly Americans. Now we have Ugly Canadians too? I see where good old American greed now extends across the border as well. :mad:

With a family of 5 on a 22 day cruise, I certainly could see them spending $5,000, as it is only $227 a day for the family and if you take shore excursions and other onboard spending into consideration, it is really not that much.

 

BTW, with the change, they can always purchase their shore excursions and some other items that are offered prior to the cruise getting the good rate.

Edited February 7, 2016 by NLH Arizona

[sjbdtz]

Are you really going to use $5000 in OBC? I don't think so!

 

See list of cruises below. On each of them. Last time I didn't do so badly at the casino, so I bought a Bulgari watch. I have my budget, but NCL makes it harder for me to spend it.

 

 

When's the last time you gambled $20,000 on a cruise ship? Probably never. Cruise ships are notorious for giving bad odds. Don't blame NCL for your country's financial dilemma.

 

Not everybody is in the same financial state you are. When 2 gamblers take a 14 day cruise, that's only slightly more than $1k / day BETWEEN THEM. I can go through $500 in 6 minutes.

 

And I play because I enjoy it, and I don't live near a casino in real-life....what the odds are, isn't my first consideration.

 

 

Stephen

 

 

.

[Maddysdaddy]

As posted previously, I'm one of those who has been affected by this.

 

I booked my cruise over a year ago at a rate of $1.11 and was told that I could purchase as much OBC as I wanted at that rate. I could have purchased USD at that time at about $1.15, but based on what I was told, I gave my money to NCL. That is how I budgeted for my cruise, and they have had long-term use of my money under the terms of that agreement.

 

Now NCL has come back to say that they've changed their mind about the promotion, and everything I purchased over $1000 is being cancelled.

 

As a result, for my family to have the same experience on the cruise/gambling/shopping/etc, I would have to purchase USD at just under $1.45.

 

I have no objection to the imposition of a $1000 limit, but what I do object to is that NCL has not grandfathered my purchases, thereby adding many, many hundreds of dollars to my vacation at the last minute.

 

Is a business entitled to terminate a promotion at any time if it makes financial sense? Absolutely. Are they legally entitled to impose it retroactively? Maybe there is under Florida law, but as a Canadian attorney, I'm now aware of what legal theory that would be - under the terms of the cruise contract, I don't see them having that right.

 

I'll wait to see what the investigations department of my credit card comes back with, and then I'll consider whether I'll seek to pursue the matter under the dispute resolution provisions of the contract. Yes, that would cost me more than what I'm losing, but if people don't object to these types of actions, NCL will have no disincentive to continuing to act in this manner.

 

Consider this - what if NCL emailed everyone tomorrow to say "Yes, you do have the unlimited beverage promotion, but some people have been abusing it by ordering drinks that they never finish or take one sip of it and then leave it. This is an abuse of the program and is costing us too much money. So, notwithstanding that you have the UBP and everyone who has previously sailed with that promotion had unlimited beverages, we're capping it at six drinks a day. Please feel free to purchase as many extra beverages as you wish at $11 per." I have a feeling that those saying "too bad, so sad" would be the first ones jumping up and down saying that NCL can't change the rules of the game retroactively.

[xcell]

I like that analogy as well....

 

 

 

Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk

Edited February 7, 2016 by xcell

[StolidCruiser]

See list of cruises below. On each of them. Last time I didn't do so badly at the casino, so I bought a Bulgari watch. I have my budget, but NCL makes it harder for me to spend it.

 

 

 

 

Not everybody is in the same financial state you are. When 2 gamblers take a 14 day cruise, that's only slightly more than $1k / day BETWEEN THEM. I can go through $500 in 6 minutes.

 

And I play because I enjoy it, and I don't live near a casino in real-life....what the odds are, isn't my first consideration.

 

 

Stephen

 

 

.

 

Stephen - I ask because I am not astute enough to see the underlying issue.

 

I don't purchase on board credit and I spend however much I choose with the charges hitting my account.

 

How does having on board credit limit how much you would or would not spend?

 

I honestly and with sincerity appreciate the enlightenment to my narrow viewpoint.

[hamrag]

...Consider this - what if NCL emailed everyone tomorrow to say "Yes, you do have the unlimited beverage promotion, but some people have been abusing it by ordering drinks that they never finish or take one sip of it and then leave it. This is an abuse of the program and is costing us too much money. So, notwithstanding that you have the UBP and everyone who has previously sailed with that promotion had unlimited beverages, we're capping it at six drinks a day. Please feel free to purchase as many extra beverages as you wish at $11 per." I have a feeling that those saying "too bad, so sad" would be the first ones jumping up and down saying that NCL can't change the rules of the game retroactively.

 

A very fair point, and very well "argued" as is the rest of your post!

[rochelle_s]

My friend gambles about $5K to $10K on his cruises (he gets a lot of free cruises)...

 

My question is, sure you buy $20K before the cruise but what happens when you win more... you still have to carry that across the border...

 

You can always ask for a cheque from the casino. On my last cruise holiday I did do very well with the casino slots and in the blackjack tournament. I was with my aunt so I had her carry some home. :) I know first world problems.

 

My mentioning $20,000 earlier was meant as a hypothetical, but there is indeed many people who play with that kind of bankroll and much more.

 

 

Rochelle

[casofilia]

Since many here are Canadians talking about exchange rates I thought this might be the place to ask a question about my future cruise booking for 2017.

 

I just booked a 14 day cruise in canadian funds at 33% just about 10 days ago.

If the rate lowers could my rate change and how? I'm booked directly with a NCL rep so is there a place I can find the rates on my own? Would I only get the changed rate when I make each payment?

 

Thanks for any help on this question!

 

Two things.

If the rate changes then the unchanged USD cost of the cruise vis-à-vis the CAD may make it worthwhile to cancel and rebook. Care with freebies though. Check with your PCC if you think it might be advantageous.

If he cost of the cruise decreases, too many empty cabins, then it is possible that could work in your favour.

 

I hope you have a decent PCC who will monitor your situation for you.

 

All the best and enjoy your cruise

 

Mike

[casofilia]

Right on Maddysdaddy.

 

Go for it; good luck

 

Mike

[sjbdtz]

As posted previously, I'm one of those who has been affected by this.

 

I booked my cruise over a year ago at a rate of $1.11 and was told that I could purchase as much OBC as I wanted at that rate. I could have purchased USD at that time at about $1.15, but based on what I was told, I gave my money to NCL. That is how I budgeted for my cruise, and they have had long-term use of my money under the terms of that agreement.

 

Now NCL has come back to say that they've changed their mind about the promotion, and everything I purchased over $1000 is being cancelled.

 

As a result, for my family to have the same experience on the cruise/gambling/shopping/etc, I would have to purchase USD at just under $1.45.

 

I have no objection to the imposition of a $1000 limit, but what I do object to is that NCL has not grandfathered my purchases, thereby adding many, many hundreds of dollars to my vacation at the last minute.

 

Is a business entitled to terminate a promotion at any time if it makes financial sense? Absolutely. Are they legally entitled to impose it retroactively? Maybe there is under Florida law, but as a Canadian attorney, I'm now aware of what legal theory that would be - under the terms of the cruise contract, I don't see them having that right.

 

I'll wait to see what the investigations department of my credit card comes back with, and then I'll consider whether I'll seek to pursue the matter under the dispute resolution provisions of the contract. Yes, that would cost me more than what I'm losing, but if people don't object to these types of actions, NCL will have no disincentive to continuing to act in this manner.

 

Consider this - what if NCL emailed everyone tomorrow to say "Yes, you do have the unlimited beverage promotion, but some people have been abusing it by ordering drinks that they never finish or take one sip of it and then leave it. This is an abuse of the program and is costing us too much money. So, notwithstanding that you have the UBP and everyone who has previously sailed with that promotion had unlimited beverages, we're capping it at six drinks a day. Please feel free to purchase as many extra beverages as you wish at $11 per." I have a feeling that those saying "too bad, so sad" would be the first ones jumping up and down saying that NCL can't change the rules of the game retroactively.

 

 

That's a fair argument. It will be interesting to see what your credit card company comes up with.

 

 

 

Stephen - I ask because I am not astute enough to see the underlying issue.

 

I don't purchase on board credit and I spend however much I choose with the charges hitting my account.

 

How does having on board credit limit how much you would or would not spend?

 

I honestly and with sincerity appreciate the enlightenment to my narrow viewpoint.

 

Two things:

 

- Since I keep a bunch of US-denominated cash in a US account at a CDN bank, being able to use that via my US-denominated credit card is helpful.

 

- My US-denominated credit card has a relatively low limit, since I only use it a few times per year, and I prefer to minimize my exposure.

 

I'd much prefer to buy the OBC, pay off the CC balance before I leave on vacation, and then only accrue actual on board spend over & above (a minimal amount since I'm fairly practiced at budgeting (meaning I spend whatever is left over! :eek: )

 

 

Stephen

 

 

.

[fshagan]

As posted previously, I'm one of those who has been affected by this.

 

I booked my cruise over a year ago at a rate of $1.11 and was told that I could purchase as much OBC as I wanted at that rate. I could have purchased USD at that time at about $1.15, but based on what I was told, I gave my money to NCL. That is how I budgeted for my cruise, and they have had long-term use of my money under the terms of that agreement.

 

Now NCL has come back to say that they've changed their mind about the promotion, and everything I purchased over $1000 is being cancelled.

 

So, NCL is going to credit you back USD, right?. What is the exchange rate today?

 

Let's say you bought $5,000 USD and it cost you $5,700 at $1.14 CAD.

 

Now NCL credits your card with $5,000 USD and the current exchange rate is $1.39 CAD for every $1 USD. Aren't you getting back $6,950 CAD?

 

Seems to me you're still doing OK.

[casofilia]

So, NCL is going to credit you back USD, right?. What is the exchange rate today?

 

Let's say you bought $5,000 USD and it cost you $5,700 at $1.14 CAD.

 

Now NCL credits your card with $5,000 USD and the current exchange rate is $1.39 CAD for every $1 USD. Aren't you getting back $6,950 CAD?

 

Seems to me you're still doing OK.

 

Refund will be in CAD as it will be going to a CAD credit card.

 

I have just thought!!! We bought at 1.07; if NCL now refund the CAD we spent in CAD they are "buying" it at c1.40 so they are making 33c on the dollar.

 

And they have had our money for a number of months as well.

 

Mike

[Maddysdaddy]

So, NCL is going to credit you back USD, right?. What is the exchange rate today?

 

Let's say you bought $5,000 USD and it cost you $5,700 at $1.14 CAD.

 

Now NCL credits your card with $5,000 USD and the current exchange rate is $1.39 CAD for every $1 USD. Aren't you getting back $6,950 CAD?

 

Seems to me you're still doing OK.

 

 

No. NCL is refunding in Canadian currency, as that is what the obc was purchased in.

 

That's the issue - this decision will now cost me an extra 30+ cents on the dollar because I didn't hedge when I booked the cruise based on their representation to me that I could purchase whatever obc I wanted at the rate I locked in at.

 

Each $1000 cost me $1100 at the NCL rate. Had they not offered to sell it to me at that, I could have purchased $1000 from the bank at $1150 when I booked my cruise. For me to re-purchase $1000 at the bank now, will cost me just under $1450.

 

I was willing to spend on board in the shops and in the casino at $1.11 or $1.15 (if the $1k limit had been in place at the time I booked). There is no way that is happening at almost $1.45.

[casofilia]

Are those Americans who accused "us" of fraud now going to back us against the NCL? What NCL is doing is tantamount to the same thing.

 

Mike

[sfaaa]

Are those Americans who accused "us" of fraud now going to back us against the NCL? What NCL is doing is tantamount to the same thing.

 

Mike

 

Yes it is. NCL should refund the same amount it was credited in its deposit account by the bank unless NCL keeps the fund in C$ with its bank. Can't have it both ways and no party should make a one sided profit over this.

[casofilia]

Just imagine what would happen in the following scenario!!!

 

Mike

-------------------------------------------------------

 

Herr del Rio

Norwegian Cruise Lines

Miami

Florida

USA

 

Regarding your forward purchase, 12 months ago, of €420M (Four Hundred and Twenty Million Euro) at an exchange rate of €1.1 to the USD. The sum to be paid on delivery of the Norwegian Bliss.

 

We have decided to limit the amount available at that rate to €20M (Twenty Million Euro) and cancel the remaining €400M (Four Hundred Million Euro).

 

We are willing to offer you forward purchase of the €400M (Four Hundred Million Euro) at today's exchange rate of €0.9 to the USD.

 

Your German Boatbuilding Consortium.

[StolidCruiser]

Just imagine what would happen in the following scenario!!!

 

Mike

-------------------------------------------------------

 

Herr del Rio

Norwegian Cruise Lines

Miami

Florida

USA

 

Regarding your forward purchase, 12 months ago, of €420M (Four Hundred and Twenty Million Euro) at an exchange rate of €1.1 to the USD. The sum to be paid on delivery of the Norwegian Bliss.

 

We have decided to limit the amount available at that rate to €20M (Twenty Million Euro) and cancel the remaining €400M (Four Hundred Million Euro).

 

We are willing to offer you forward purchase of the €400M (Four Hundred Million Euro) at today's exchange rate of €0.9 to the USD.

 

Your German Boatbuilding Consortium.

 

Nice try. Not even in the same realm of comparability.

 

Also FYI:

Euro Exchange rate today - 1.116 to 1

Euro Exchange rate 1 year ago - 1.131 to 1

 

Add to that the euro to USD rate has been as stable as its been in years, unlike other currencies which have taken a nosedive.

 

Should you wish to to discuss currency futures and what constitutes a contract for them, I'd be happy to explain what I have learned in the past 25 years working with them.

[Kingofwylietx]

Should you wish to to discuss currency futures and what constitutes a contract for them, I'd be happy to explain what I have learned in the past 25 years working with them.

 

Is it time to start buying Canadian dollars with our US dollars, to convert back in a year or two...hopefully at a nice profit?

:confused::D

[xcell]

You can do that...

 

You can also purchase cruises through our canadian TAs who price things in CDN - some being a favorable exchange and then buy the OBC as well...

[Kingofwylietx]

I was thinking more along the lines of an investment....surely the Canadian dollar can't stay weak forever (or, the US dollar can't stay this strong forever).

[xcell]

The last time the Cdn dollar was this low was in 2003... so all depends on how long you can hold it ... but at least it's a tax free gain

 

Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk

[lettienets]

Is it time to start buying Canadian dollars with our US dollars, to convert back in a year or two...hopefully at a nice profit?

:confused::D

They are not calling for our Cdn dollar to go up anytime soon, perhaps late 2018 and nowhere near par. The two day bounce up last Thus & Fri was a blip, two cents was a giant leap but down Fri afternoon.:rolleyes: Business is hoping it will stay down at least 20-30 cents, good for exports so they say.:eek:rolleyes: Want to buy cauliflower for $4.99 - $8.99. I think the $4.99 cauliflower is the $8.99 cauliflower that wouldn't sell!