HAL's Veendam - a great disappointment!

[cruz chic]

Amen, failing mechanical systems are totally unacceptable. The problems are beyond routine maintenance and cosmetic redos.

People are not paying to go on a camping trip.

On our last Veendam trip people spent 12 days in cabins with no ventilation. They were repeatedly told repairs would be made in the next port, however the HVAC issues overwhelmed repairs.

My travel agent friend frequently hears post cruise stories about these old ships, she is stunned that anyone sails them and says this is the big issue hurting Holland America.

 

There is nothing wrong with the ship ;). It's just people leaving balcony doors open and flushing wet naps for plumbing issues :rolleyes:. My cabin was very warm on the Veendam when I left Boston in May. It was still quite cold so I doubt anyone had a door open. It's unfortunate that some will only believe if the issue happens to them.

[dznymom]

Unacceptable for you, but others point out these are issues well within their own tolerance level. But agree, you need to know what you could run into. It is wrong however to assume these issues are routine or universal. Or assume that people will not follow the "rules" when the ship does put out warning signs about the verandah doors and plumbing

 

Maybe at another time there did not need to be "failsafe" design systems built into ship travel. People just did what they were asked to do, expected tropical weather when they went to the tropics, and wet wipes had not come into such popular use. I don't know. But they obviously were designed with a different sort of passenger in mind. More for the keep calm and carry on type sea going passenger.

 

Having sailed on the original sister ship of the Love Boat which used to sail as the MV Discovery, it is a kick to see what was the height of cruise glamour at one time and opened the world to pleasure cruising because of that TV series: tiny cabins, an industrial head, no closets or built in cabinets, cramped dining room, small public areas, multi use lounge with no stage, and little outdoor deck comfort. But not that long ago that too was state of the art. When my parents sailed, it was bunk beds and bathrooms down the hall. This was the expected and accepted cruise standard. You rolled with it. No one knew any better.

 

So now you know, these smaller older HAL ships are not for you. But they still work for others, who go in with their eyes open. The crushing disappointment of course would be for those who did not know what they might run into occasionally on the older, less failsafe ships and it was beyond their coping mechanisms to put up with less than design perfection. That indeed is HAL's obvious headache. I am sure HAL will be happy to say good by to these older ships and put their emphasis on the more modern ones which can be designed to be more failsafe for the passengers of today. However, please accept this will break the heart for many of us too once they are finally gone. I am sorry you had less than a happy voyage on them.

 

Actually, I have sailed and do sail many ships that were built in the mid to late nineties. This is not common to all of them, although my experience with some in the Carnival fleet have had similar issues which is one reason I stopped sailing with them. Most cruise lines seem to have updated and maintained these ships in a manner that still allows for a comfortable cruise.

 

Anyway, I am happy there are plenty of ships and cruise lines out there for us all to choose what suits us as individuals. It is just unfortunate when someone has a sub-par experience such as the original poster.

 

I am quite looking forward to my Zuiderdam cruise next month, and I fully expect a fabulous experience! So I am going to move on from this thread and put my time to better use by studying up on my ports of call :)

Edited February 20, 2016 by dznymom

[iancal]

Bottom line for us...our perception is that HAL skimps on maintenance and their older ships are long overdue for a systems refresh. We won't even consider them.

 

But HAL has been trying to unload these long in the tooth ships for quite some time. So until they are sold I suspect that HAL will simply spend as little as possible and milk the revenue dry. It is just too bad for the very small percentage of cabins that are so negatively impacted. As long as you don't get one of these cabins everything is AOK. HAL probably thinks that the cost of a few complementary bottles of cheap wine, a small OBC, or a future cruise credit is a small price to pay to accommodate the resulting customer satisfaction issues.

Edited February 20, 2016 by iancal

[cruisemom42]

I read many forums and reviews here on CC -- for bigger ships, smaller ships, older ships, newer ships -- but none seem to get so many complaints about plumbing issues and air conditioning issues as HAL.

 

From some of the arguments advanced here, I guess I'd have to assume that HAL attracts a far larger percentage of selfish and/or clueless cruisers relative to other lines, since these problems allegedly occur mainly due to other passengers and have nothing to do with maintenance. :rolleyes:

 

Either way, it doesn't inspire me with a lot of confidence regarding what I consider basic services on the older HAL ships....

[whogo]

I had made up my mind not to sail on the Veendam in 2010. The added cabins, wading pool, reserved promenade deck chairs, and constant plumbing and A/C complaints were unacceptable. A/C and plumbing complaints died down and we had great cruises on the Veendam around the horn in 2011 and to Hawaii in 2015. I would still rather cruise on a ship that had two pools, no big screen TV, no added cabins, and no reserved deck chairs.

 

I suspect that it is usually just a small percentage of cabins that suffer HVAC or plumbing problems and usually for a short period of time. If I faced long term unsolvable plumbing or HVAC problems I would ask the cruise line to refund everything I had paid and cover all costs to send us home.

[Lizzie68]

I read many forums and reviews here on CC -- for bigger ships, smaller ships, older ships, newer ships -- but none seem to get so many complaints about plumbing issues and air conditioning issues as HAL.

 

From some of the arguments advanced here, I guess I'd have to assume that HAL attracts a far larger percentage of selfish and/or clueless cruisers relative to other lines, since these problems allegedly occur mainly due to other passengers and have nothing to do with maintenance. :rolleyes:

 

Either way, it doesn't inspire me with a lot of confidence regarding what I consider basic services on the older HAL ships....

 

Good points. Being a sailaway addict, and watching so many other cruise ships leaving Port Everglades, I am always struck by how many of the balcony doors are wide open on, say, Princess and RCI. And yet I seldom read about a/c failures, though it does happen, but nowhere near as often as on some HAL ships, from all accounts. I do know that we never had any plumbing or a/c issues on RCI.

[sppunk]

Good points. Being a sailaway addict, and watching so many other cruise ships leaving Port Everglades, I am always struck by how many of the balcony doors are wide open on, say, Princess and RCI. And yet I seldom read about a/c failures, though it does happen, but nowhere near as often as on some HAL ships, from all accounts. I do know that we never had any plumbing or a/c issues on RCI.

 

One reason HAL has these issues on their S and R ships is Fincantieri at the time was inferior in quality to other yards and it was a high cost savings to be the gunea pigs. That isn't my opinion, it's a widely known belief. They are much better now obviously, though I still prefer a Werth or STX built ship.

 

Shipyards and their oversight make a HUGE difference.

[Tampa Girl]

Probably. An A Vista Suite (e.g. 150) on the 14-day Maasdam from San Diego to FLL on Mar 1st is $6549+$352 taxes/fees per person, or $985 per day for two.

 

That makes sense. I was thinking of pp., but OP was probably talking about 2 persons.

[OlsSalt]

WIKI on Fincantieri and their list of ships: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fincantieri

Disney Magic and Wonder built around the same time as Veendam and Rotterdam.

 

Allegedly useful life for a ship is about 25 years. Does anyone know how they refitted the HACV and plumbing on the former Ryndam and Statendam after they were sold to P&O?

Edited February 20, 2016 by OlsSalt

[sail7seas]

One reason HAL has these issues on their S and R ships is Fincantieri at the time was inferior in quality to other yards and it was a high cost savings to be the gunea pigs. That isn't my opinion, it's a widely known belief. They are much better now obviously, though I still prefer a Werth or STX built ship.

 

Shipyards and their oversight make a HUGE difference.

 

Yet HAL/Carnival continues to have all their ships built by Fincantieri.

 

The entire fleet and a few that have left the fleet were/is being built there.

 

[OlsSalt]

Yet HAL/Carnival continues to have all their ships built by Fincantieri.

 

The entire fleet and a few that have left the fleet were/is being built there.

 

 

MSC, Princess and Seabourn also had recent new ships built by them. But it certainly has been a Carnival family operation in the past.

[cruz chic]

I have about 100 days on princess ships. Not once have I had a toilet that didn't flush. On Hal it seems to happen on almost every ship. I wonder why. Maybe there is a no wet nap policy on princess :rolleyes:.

[Topsham]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

My husband and I are considering booking an Alaskan cruise on Radiance in July, 2016. However, I've read 6+ reviews citing poor plumbing and resulting sewage smells and stinky cabins. Can anyone who has cruised recently comment? [/

 

 

 

 

In five minutes I have searched Air Con problems, toilet problems etc.... on RCI, NCL, Celebrity, Princess etc.

 

 

Bad thinks only happen on HAL?

[iancal]

We vote with our feet and our wallets.

 

There are so many great ships out there-in great condition. Both HAL and other cruise lines. We see no need to chance a 'clunker' when we can improve our odds by simply selecting another HAL ship of a different vintage. So thus is what we do.

 

Our perception of HAL has declined. Not certain why people take it so personally. To us it is nothing more than buying a different to model or brand of car. They cannot all deliver the same quality and service. But more often than before HAL is dropping off our final final list of two ships to pick from-for numerous reasons. We could care less what brand of automobile our neighbour buys just as we could care less what cruise line or cruise ship anyone else selects. It has zero impact on us.

Edited February 20, 2016 by iancal

[SilvertoGold]

If it is actually the case that a couple of people leaving a balcony door open can wreak havoc with the air conditioning for an entire section of the ship, that is clearly a design flaw. If it is because the system is old and unable to keep up with demand, that is a maintenance issue.

 

Isn't the A/C and heat system a recirculating one? Those systems work by recirculating a liquid (cold or hot) to all the cabins on that line and heat or cool accordingly. On A/C adding hot air to one cabin heats the cold liquid and passes it on to the next and next cabin, etc. This is how the systems works and cannot be considered a design flaw per se. It is an efficient and cost-saving system if not abused.

The alternative would be to put individual systems in each and every cabin, at a cost that would increase the fares hugely. Or use heat exchangers on every balcony, also at huge expense.

 

If the system is old, it could be the pumps that need maintenance or replacement, at huge cost.

 

Not much of a solution but get pax to understand the problem with leaving the door open. If you did this at home with a system like that, you would close that door fast once you got the bill for the extra energy being wasted.

Edited February 20, 2016 by SilvertoGold

[sppunk]

Yet HAL/Carnival continues to have all their ships built by Fincantieri.

 

The entire fleet and a few that have left the fleet were/is being built there.

 

 

Not at the time the S/R ships were built though iirc. I believe Destiny was the first Carnival Cruise Line ship built there. If you notice it has been the most hated CCL ship in history. :) After Destiny was a 4-5 year wait until the next CCL was built there.

 

I'm not saying the yard is bad today, I believe it's a fine operation and full f veer good craftsmen, I'm saying when they were winning contracts in the late 80s/arry 90s they were skimping in quality in exchange for cost to build a portfolio. That's fine but the line has to recognize the ship will need a MAJOR mechanical overhaul and HAL has failed IMO by not doing them.

 

This is all my opinion but I do know a few cruise officers for two independent lines who have been on multiple lines don't care for the mechanical side of older Fincantieri ships.

 

I believe Lisa (LAFFINVEGAS) has similar thoughts.

[Topsham]

Crystal:

 

 

The midship toilets on decks 7 and 8 portside began to experience problems at about 8 PM last night. The still have not been completely repaired some 20 hours later. Not what I expect from Crystal.

__________________

[OlsSalt]

From the Oceania forum: ship happens just about everywhere.

"I am offended by this response. We have not yet sailed with O, but if her treatment with respect to her clogged toilet, the "subtle" hint to pack, and the other poor service tales she related are true, there is a problem here, and telling her it's her problem is a "poor way to run a railroad," or a cruise line."

Edited February 21, 2016 by OlsSalt

[iancal]

There can be no doubt that other ships/other cruise lines for experience A/C and plumbing issues.

 

The point is that veendam seems to experience them with startling regularity. So much so that threads like this one are fairly commonplace.

 

I have had more than one TA advise us against Veendam. Completely unsolicited. They both mentioned the ship in passing as one neither of them would recommend. Not enough elevators, out of service elevators, only one real pool,and a reputation for issues with A/C and plumbing. Veendam seems to have a poor rep...even among the HAL cheerleaders that we have spoken to.

[Topsham]

Well, I'll be in VEENDAM for FOUR weeks in May/June. I'll let you know how the ship goes.

[MOcruiserman]

We were on the Veendam in 2014, our first cruise, and we thoroughly enjoyed it. The food, service and entertainment were great on our cruise and I didn't notice any shabbiness at all.

 

We always have an inside cabin and ours was very comfy and quiet.

 

I sympathize with the OP regarding the brown water - I would have been very upset about that and complained at the desk until it was resolved.

[Jade13]

Amen, failing mechanical systems are totally unacceptable. The problems are beyond routine maintenance and cosmetic redos.

 

People are not paying to go on a camping trip.

 

On our last Veendam trip people spent 12 days in cabins with no ventilation. They were repeatedly told repairs would be made in the next port, however the HVAC issues overwhelmed repairs.

 

My travel agent friend frequently hears post cruise stories about these old ships, she is stunned that anyone sails them and says this is the big issue hurting Holland America.

 

 

We were on Veendam in 2012 with non working AC for a 22 night cruise. This was in a Lanai cabin. They gave us a large fan. The people next to us were in an OV and had been on the cruise before ours (btb) and were on their third move. One cabin was too hot and the other too cold.

 

We have not been back on Veendam since.

[G&G]

WOW, a cruise review that got a lot of attention. I stopped writing reviews, usually good reviews, due to lack of interest. I guess you need a bad one to bring out the best in the CC group.

 

Probably has something to do with the review and the many problems with HAL's older ships.

 

In the past three years we have steered away from HAL; 14 total cruises, 3 w/HAL, 6 w/Oceania, 4 w/Celebrity & 1 w/Princess. The big difference with the other cruise lines is that none of the ships we sailed were over 5 years old. Never had or heard of any problems as discussed by OP on the newer ships.

 

The three HAL cruises were on the Statendam (2) and Westerdam. Observed the same issues on Statendam and just a few on Westerdam.

[Winters in NZ]

Best way to compare cruise lines is to go on lots of different ones.

 

I enjoyed this thread a lot. Nothing like differences of opinion!

 

I agree with your two comments. We began cruising in the 1980's, and for the most part, quality seems to have improved in the industry since then, but there will always be glitches which are encountered. Fortunately aboard 25 cruises with HAL, we were lucky, fortunate or simply thankful that we dodged major problems.

 

Back in the 'old days' having been aboard a couple of Epirotiki ships, there were some things, such as food which were excellent, but there were other issues with which to contend that convinced us not to return to that line.

[drlee]

We were on that Panama Canal cruise on the Veendam, and can relate to some of what was said. The Veendam is for sale, as are all Vista class ships, and is also headed for drydock, where it is due minor refurbishment, not scrap-heap repairs. We noticed some degradation in service compared to previous sailings. We had dinner with a first-time HAL cruiser couple who said they would never do HAL again do to this experience. We attempted to counter with our tales of better experiences on this ship as well as other ships. The journey itself was outstanding, the canal was neat, especially seeing the new one alongside. Shore excursions can be hit or miss, and road conditions made some of those on this trip tough. We also noticed that the arrows to the lifeboat stations pointed the wrong direction, assuming you would use the stairs closest to the lifeboat. Hopefully, you'll give HAL another chance. We drove from Tampa to Fort Lauderdale following this cruise to catch the Oosterdam for 3 weeks that was outstanding. Service was exceeding expectations.