Emergency medical response-- or lack thereof

[PartyAllDaTyme]

We just got back from our Crown Princess sailing, and I had an incident I felt worth bringing up.

 

I was working out in the gym when nature called. I headed for the men's locker room, but the two stalls were both unavailable. One had an Out of Order sign, the other was occupied. I patiently waited for a few minutes for the one stall occupant to conclude his business, with a few other guys coming in for the same purpose, grumbling a bit about the inconvenience, then heading off to find other alternatives. One gentleman came in, said, "Is that guy still in there? I've been trying for twenty minutes now."

 

This concerned me. Being near the gym, was someone having a heart attack or a stroke after working out? I knocked, then pounded on the door. I shouted, "You all right in there?" There was no response. I headed to the spa desk to report the problem. "I think there may be a problem in the men's locker room. There's only one stall available, and it's apparently been occupied for twenty minutes..."

 

"We're aware of the problem with the other stall, and hope to have that taken care of shortly."

 

"No, the problem is I just pounded on the door and asked if he was all right, and there was no response. I hope it's nothing, but it's very possible someone is having a medical problem and is unable to respond. You'd better get someone up here right away."

 

They told me they would call someone, and I went back to the locker room. I pounded on the door and called out a couple more times for good measure, but after a few more minutes, my original need was too great and I took off for the Thermal Suite (had a pass for it) to use that facility. I came back up and estimated a good five minutes had passed since I notified the spa desk. I expected to see someone from Medical by now with a crash cart, but the locker room was still empty.

 

I went back to the spa desk. "Anyone called yet?" "We called someone, but he got called away for something else. He'll be there as soon as that's taken care of." "You do realize that this is possibly a medical emergency, right?" The attendants did not seem to be overly concerned.

 

I went back in to the locker room and pounded on the door once again, put my ear to it, hoping to at least hear some moaning or some such. After about three more minutes, a custodian/janitor showed up, asked if this was the problem, and proceeded to unlock the Out of Order stall. "No," I said, "this one. There may be someone seriously ill in there." He unlocked the door, knocked politely, said "Housekeeping," and when there was no response, entered.

 

Fortunately, the stall was empty. How the door got locked is a mystery, as it's a bolt that must be turned from the inside.

 

All's well that ends well, but what if there had been someone passed out and dying? Minutes matter. All I could picture as the door was being opened was a guy slumped over, and what I would be saying at the trial if it turned out that he could have been saved if someone reached him five minutes earlier. As it was, it was at least eight minutes from the time this was brought to the attention of the staff, and would have been another two or three if they then had to call security or the medical staff.

 

I've had cruise directors and ship's staff that have asked that, if anyone had some major concerns, they be brought up to the staff first before posting on Cruise Critic to give them a chance to address it. So I went to Passenger Services to report the incident. The staff member who I spoke to seemed similarly horrified, said that should never have happened, and said she would pass it along to the appropriate personnel. I told her that I would appreciate some followup, just so I knew it was addressed and so I wouldn't have to post something on Cruise Critic. She assured me she would pass that along, as well. Well, since I'm posting, you can imagine what the followup was.

 

I wasn't looking to get anyone fired, but felt it was my responsibility to let Princess know that they need some improvement in this area. After all, it could have been me, or my wife, or any of my fellow cruisers that may have been incapacitated and possibly dying.

[4x4bob]

Did you look under the door to see if you could see any Feet? That is the first thing I would have done after becoming concerned.

 

Bob

[TracieABD]

Did you look under the door to see if you could see any Feet? That is the first thing I would have done after becoming concerned.

 

Bob

 

In some of the lavs, the door goes all the way to the floor, so you may not be able to look over or under.

 

Most of the Fitness Center and Spa staff are contract workers through Steiner Corporation. There may be little that the ships staff can do.

[tonit964]

Exactly what I was thinking!

[fyrfytr80]

Did you look under the door to see if you could see any Feet? That is the first thing I would have done after becoming concerned.

 

Bob

 

I was just on the Crown. The two stalls in the mens locker room have full length doors (they're individual rooms).

[john watson]

A lot of these type doors have a slot on the lock outside to unlock (or even lock) the door from the outside in an emergency using a screwdriver or a coin. These are also fitted in your cabin bathroom. I suspect children messing about or a forgetful janitor had officially locked for some reason and gone away.

 

I am surprised the crew had not sorted this out immediately with there being no "out of service" sign and someone saying they had been waiting outside the door twenty minutes.

 

Regards John

Edited February 23, 2016 by john watson

[Colo Cruiser]

Glad it was empty.

[XStitcher]

In some of the lavs, the door goes all the way to the floor, so you may not be able to look over or under.

 

Most of the Fitness Center and Spa staff are contract workers through Steiner Corporation. There may be little that the ships staff can do.[/quote]

 

Really?!!! "little that the ships staff can do"????...

[shredie]

In some of the lavs, the door goes all the way to the floor, so you may not be able to look over or under.

 

Most of the Fitness Center and Spa staff are contract workers through Steiner Corporation. There may be little that the ships staff can do.[/quote]

 

Really?!!! "little that the ships staff can do"????...

 

Well, that's comforting.

[Colo Cruiser]

A lot of these type doors have a slot on the lock outside to unlock (or even lock) the door from the outside in an emergency using a screwdriver or a coin. These are also fitted in your cabin bathroom. I suspect children messing about or a forgetful janitor had officially locked for some reason and gone away.

 

I am surprised the crew had not sorted this out immediately with there being no "out of service" sign and someone saying they had been waiting outside the door twenty minutes.

 

Regards John

 

 

Yes they are. :)

 

I think I have seen many locked stalls that were unmarked on my cruises.

Never gave them a second thought.......

Edited February 23, 2016 by Colo Cruiser

[cherylandtk]

Steve, thank you for posting. I suppose the take away here is that contract staff may or may not respond appropriately. I recall the miscommunication on the Star Princess when two birders with long range binoculars spotted a raft or small boat, reported it, but no action was taken. It had been reported to what turned out to be the Art Gallery manager, also a contract employee.

 

Since it may not be possible to easily identify who is and is not an actual ship staff member, I plan to make note of the courtesy telephone locations should I need to contact the PSD to make such a report in the future. I know they are in each elevator lobby, but I also know there are many more in public venues.

[SakeDad]

Having worked on ship's I can tell you the BEST thing to do if you feel there is any kind of emergency is contact SECURITY immediately. Don't go to any other crew member that may or may not think your emergency is real. Yes, sometimes they will mistakenly make that judgement call, even when it is not their job to do so. Security's phone number is listed by every house phone on the ships. Security is well trained to handle any situation and make the proper decisions.

[kayred]

Just because you did not hear back doesn't mean princess didn't look into the issue. Not sure what you would of wanted princess to report back to you, maybe that someone got in trouble. my guess is with the way staff responded they are use to this stall locking so they sent for repair rather then security. I am glad no one was hurt.

[dns65]

Just got off the Crown on Saturday. Both of the stalls in the deck 16 forward men's room were frequently out of service all week long due to clogs. The issue was they had one out of order sign and two blocked toilets.

 

As for how the stall got locked, they can lock it with a screwdriver from the front of the door.

Edited February 23, 2016 by dns65

[PartyAllDaTyme]

I was just on the Crown. The two stalls in the mens locker room have full length doors (they're individual rooms).

 

Correct. When I reported this to Passenger Services, her thought was, "Well, it could have been kids playing, crawling under-- no, wait, those are fully enclosed, aren't they?"

 

Steve, thank you for posting. I suppose the take away here is that contract staff may or may not respond appropriately. I recall the miscommunication on the Star Princess when two birders with long range binoculars spotted a raft or small boat, reported it, but no action was taken. It had been reported to what turned out to be the Art Gallery manager, also a contract employee.

 

Since it may not be possible to easily identify who is and is not an actual ship staff member, I plan to make note of the courtesy telephone locations should I need to contact the PSD to make such a report in the future. I know they are in each elevator lobby, but I also know there are many more in public venues.

 

I was aware that the spa staff is from Steiner, but I figured that there would be some minimal training in assistance in the event of a medical emergency, especially given that there's a higher likelihood of a medical problem related to someone overdoing it in the gym. Something like, "In the event where there may be a medical emergency, assume that immediate assistance is required and immediately call Security (or Medical or whatever's appropriate)." That's all that's needed. Not intense or specialized training required.

 

The upshot is that anyone reading this knows to bypass the spa staff and call someone else, as I should have.

 

Having worked on ship's I can tell you the BEST thing to do if you feel there is any kind of emergency is contact SECURITY immediately. Don't go to any other crew member that may or may not think your emergency is real. Yes, sometimes they will mistakenly make that judgement call, even when it is not their job to do so. Security's phone number is listed by every house phone on the ships. Security is well trained to handle any situation and make the proper decisions.

 

And there you have it. Thank you for the response. Everyone, when in doubt, call Security.

 

Just because you did not hear back doesn't mean princess didn't look into the issue. Not sure what you would of wanted princess to report back to you, maybe that someone got in trouble. my guess is with the way staff responded they are use to this stall locking so they sent for repair rather then security. I am glad no one was hurt.

 

I specifically said I expected to hear something back before the cruise was completed, just so I would know that this wasn't being disregarded as a passenger who was upset because a bathroom door was locked. I would have expected at least an acknowledgement that this was identified as a potential problem and that the staff would be better educated on how to proceed in the future and not to see to it that punishment was handed down. Or possibly I would have been told that the proper course of action on my part would to have immediately called Security. Or something. Not crickets chirping. If they did take some action, great, but I don't want to hear pleas from the cruise director the next cruise not to post about it on Cruise Critic and to come to them first.

 

If the stall locking by itself is a common problem, causing complacency, it may be one that costs them a huge amount of money someday. If they can't engineer a door that doesn't lock by itself, I'm not sure I trust the navigation equipment. Yes, I know, different contractors, but still...

[PartyAllDaTyme]

Just got off the Crown on Saturday. Both of the stalls in the deck 15 forward men's room were frequently out of service all week long due to clogs. The issue was they had one out of order sign and two blocked toilets.

 

As for how the stall got locked, they can lock it with a screwdriver from the front of the door.

 

The staff member that opened it with his screwdriver (I didn't happen to have one on me:rolleyes:) gave no indication of that. He seemed surprised (relieved?) that there was no one inside, and the toidy was fully functional. He also opened up the one with the out of order sign-- no problem in that one, either. So if they just leave them alone for a while, they unclog by themselves?

 

And only ONE out of order sign? Really? A big-time outfit like Princess doesn't have access to a photocopier? I believe you when you say that's the situation, but they couldn't come up with this fix for that little problem?

[Linerguy]

"I told her that I would appreciate some followup, just so I knew it was addressed and so I wouldn't have to post something on Cruise Critic. She assured me she would pass that along, as well. Well, since I'm posting, you can imagine what the followup was."

 

Threatening to go to Cruise Critic if you didn't receive a follow up is ridiculous. To be honest, I'm not sure why some people think the sea is supposed to part anytime they mention this site. While CC is a place where people can discuss all aspects of cruising (and your post most certainly does that, no problem), this "...or else I'll blast you on Cruise Critic" attitude goes too far. I've heard this threat way too many times while on cruises, and it's obnoxious.

 

Don't get me wrong: I agree 100% that the first person you talked to about the potential problem should have responded asap. Absolutely no doubt that they dropped the ball. And I think it's admirable that you care as much as you obviously do.

 

But it was reported and you were assured it would be passed on.....done, end of story. I have a feeling that, even if they did follow up, you still would have posted something about it on CC.

[PartyAllDaTyme]

There were way bigger issues on this cruise than not having out of order signs for the plumbing.

 

The issue I had was not the lack of out of order signs, even if this turned out to be the root cause, but the possibility of someone dying because the staff (Steiner or otherwise) couldn't comprehend the real issue was not a locked door but the reason for the locked door.

 

I didn't happen to notice a major problem with kids in the adult pool. I did see two, so I may just not have been there at the times when it was bad. I don't think that problem compares to a dysfunctional approach to a potentially seriously ill passenger, though.

 

Lest anyone think that this ruined the cruise for me, I thoroughly enjoyed it, would recommend Princess in general and Crown Princess in particular to anyone considering sailing, but thought we could all benefit from a discussion of what happened and what might or should have been done. I've learned my lesson. Call Security. Maybe if they're constantly running around checking on self-locking doors (or ones that are locked by maintenance with no out of order sign), Princess will be motivated to address the issue.

[chrysalis]

Another - why didn't you look under the door. Its what I do if I think something is really amiss.

 

asked and answered:)

[PartyAllDaTyme]

Threatening to go to Cruise Critic if you didn't receive a follow up is ridiculous. To be honest, I'm not sure why some people think the sea is supposed to part anytime they mention this site. While CC is a place where people can discuss all aspects of cruising (and your post most certainly does that, no problem), this "...or else I'll blast you on Cruise Critic" attitude goes too far. I've heard this threat way too many times while on cruises, and it's obnoxious.

 

Don't get me wrong: I agree 100% that the first person you talked to about the potential problem should have responded asap. Absolutely no doubt that they dropped the ball. And I think it's admirable that you care as much as you obviously do.

 

But it was reported and you were assured it would be passed on.....done, end of story. I have a feeling that, even if they did follow up, you still would have posted something about it on CC.

 

Like you, I've seen too many people that take the attitude, "Listen, I expect you to ignore the rules for me or give me special treatment, because if you don't, I'll go on Cruise Critic and tell everyone that your cruise line sucks." Or even if they have a genuine problem, invoking the possibility of a bad review on CC just because they assume they will bow down and offer $100 of OBC if they'll please just not post bad things about them.

 

The last thing I wanted to do was to have to post about this on CC. But I've attended enough CC functions on ships and heard enough CD's say, "Please, if you have a problem, we'd appreciate it if you come to us first to try to address it, rather than ripping us on Cruise Critic." It was certainly not my intention to threaten them with Cruise Critic, but knowing how cruise lines feel about bad publicity here, I wanted to give them every opportunity to be forewarned that I was not just a casual cruiser and would post if I felt this was being ignored.

 

If I had been contacted about this, then done, end of story. There have been many issues I've had in the past that have been properly handled by Passenger Services that I've never posted about, simply because it was handled. I don't expect perfection. In this case, I made clear what my expectations were as far as getting at least some followup, and that did not happen, so I have no reason to believe it was in fact addressed. Therefore, I think it's important to bring it up as a point of discussion here.

 

I was not looking for compensation; I was not looking to get anyone fired; I was looking for a way to address this problem so it hopefully prevents someone (maybe me, maybe you) from dying someday in a Princess toilet stall because the staff took too long to open the damn door.

[TracieABD]

[quote=XStitcher;49182277

 

Really?!!! "little that the ships staff can do"????...

 

That is quite a response...

Think of it this way. In some senses, cruise ships are giant floating shopping malls-- the shops, the spa, the fitness center all "rent' or contract for space on cruise ships. They provide all of the staff and some of the "goodies". The contract companies take care of the hiring, training, and evaluating this particular group of people. Just like in a shopping mall, if one of the store (Let's say Nordstrom's) employees is rude to a customer, the mall will probably not be able to discipline the Nordstrom's employee. That falls on Nordstrom's. The exception is if any employee on a cruise ship does something illegal. Then, security will step in and handle it. It becomes a legal matter.

Edited February 23, 2016 by TracieABD

[Linerguy]

Like you, I've seen too many people that take the attitude, "Listen, I expect you to ignore the rules for me or give me special treatment, because if you don't, I'll go on Cruise Critic and tell everyone that your cruise line sucks." Or even if they have a genuine problem, invoking the possibility of a bad review on CC just because they assume they will bow down and offer $100 of OBC if they'll please just not post bad things about them.

 

The last thing I wanted to do was to have to post about this on CC. But I've attended enough CC functions on ships and heard enough CD's say, "Please, if you have a problem, we'd appreciate it if you come to us first to try to address it, rather than ripping us on Cruise Critic." It was certainly not my intention to threaten them with Cruise Critic, but knowing how cruise lines feel about bad publicity here, I wanted to give them every opportunity to be forewarned that I was not just a casual cruiser and would post if I felt this was being ignored.

 

If I had been contacted about this, then done, end of story. There have been many issues I've had in the past that have been properly handled by Passenger Services that I've never posted about, simply because it was handled. I don't expect perfection. In this case, I made clear what my expectations were as far as getting at least some followup, and that did not happen, so I have no reason to believe it was in fact addressed. Therefore, I think it's important to bring it up as a point of discussion here.

 

I was not looking for compensation; I was not looking to get anyone fired; I was looking for a way to address this problem so it hopefully prevents someone (maybe me, maybe you) from dying someday in a Princess toilet stall because the staff took too long to open the damn door.

 

Steve:

 

Thanks for your well thought out response. If I misjudged your intentions, I do apologize. It's just that, like you, I've seen too many people take the holier-than-thou attitude when it comes to Cruise Critic. Years ago, I passed several cabin doors with a sign taped on them that read, "Cruise Critic on board...you've been warned." How pompous.

 

I think sometimes we just have to have a little faith that people are going to do what they say they are going to do, and give them the benefit of the doubt. As far as your situation, we can only hope that the no follow up was unintentional, and that the message did, in fact, get into the right hands.

 

Also, while I understand that, on the surface, it might seem that going straight to security might be the answer, it really shouldn't be. Maybe I'm just expecting too much, but I believe that EVERY member of the crew should know what to do in the case of an emergency. The first person you went to should have reacted immediately. If someone falls over the rail into the sea, and I see it, I should be able to grab the first crew member I run into and they should know what to do (while I grab a life ring and throw it overboard). When it comes to an emergency, the "not my job" attitude should fly out the porthole.

 

Again, thanks for the response.

 

-Russ

[Pushka]

I'd like to think if I had collapsed in a toilet and another passenger raised the alarm then an emergency response (eg the notified crew member would contact security immediately) would be activated.

[cruisequeen4ever]

My thought is that the crew probably knew the second stall was clogged and locked as a result but didn't have the sign up. That would explain the lack of urgency. If this was the case, they should have told you that, so you wouldn't worry. It was very kind of you to be concerned and to follow up!

[kwahl1]

Steve, thank you for posting. I suppose the take away here is that contract staff may or may not respond appropriately. I recall the miscommunication on the Star Princess when two birders with long range binoculars spotted a raft or small boat, reported it, but no action was taken. It had been reported to what turned out to be the Art Gallery manager, also a contract employee.

 

 

 

Since it may not be possible to easily identify who is and is not an actual ship staff member, I plan to make note of the courtesy telephone locations should I need to contact the PSD to make such a report in the future. I know they are in each elevator lobby, but I also know there are many more in public venues.

 

 

I was on this sailing. Valparaiso to LA. I heard about this incident after we disembarked. I wonder what ever became of this incident and those involved?