Live from Holland America Line Koningsdam: Hits & Misses

[Ayrity]

Walking the promenade is an extremely important part of my cruise experience. The three miles of walking on sea days is crucial for keeping fit after all the excellent meals served. Don't think i would pick the K for a cruise longer than 7 days without the signature promenade. The library or lack there of is another major disappointment. Sounds to me that the newest class of ship would be perfect doing shorter cruises in the Caribbean.

 

I see people saying this kind of thing all over the site here, and I hope you don't feel like I am taking it out on you at all, I just want to try to understand a bit.

 

There are other options for exercise, including the jogging track and treadmills. While no one is stopping you from walking the promenade, it isn't, and never has been, intended for exercise. An easy stroll perhaps, but even though it is narrow in places, it should be easy to get by people when your intention isn't set on 'exercise'.

 

The library complaints just seem kind of silly to me, again no offense meant here :). I assumed everyone just brought a book or 1,000 with them on their kindle/tablet? And there is really no argument to be made about how much better real books are for reading (I do admit they are better for decoration) anymore since the paperwhite screens are so good. The books in the library always just worked as decoration to me while I drank coffee and read on my tablet.

 

Anyways again, not trying to offend anyone, just really trying to understand/help people find solutions to these issues so everyone can enjoy the new ship.

[Ken the cruiser]

I see people saying this kind of thing all over the site here, and I hope you don't feel like I am taking it out on you at all, I just want to try to understand a bit.

 

There are other options for exercise, including the jogging track and treadmills. While no one is stopping you from walking the promenade, it isn't, and never has been, intended for exercise. An easy stroll perhaps, but even though it is narrow in places, it should be easy to get by people when your intention isn't set on 'exercise'.

 

Let me address this issue as being on one those walkers on the promenade. First let me say as my DW and I get older we find ourselves trying to take better care of ourselves, both mentally and physically. We are in our 60's and our goal on cruises is to walk the stairs and stay away from elevators if at all possible. Another goal is to only gain a few pounds rather than 10 or 15 as it is definitely harder to loose weight as you get older. One way to do that is by walking laps around the ship.

 

We started cruising about 4 years ago and really feel at home on HAL ships. When we first started cruising with HAL we saw couples walking laps in the fresh air on the shaded promenade and thought that was a great idea as walking in the hot sun definitely is not healthy for your skin. In fact we've done this on all of the cruise ships we've been on with covered promenades. Plus, from the number of other folks we've seen walking laps, it's definitely a growing trend. In addition HAL has recognized this fact on all the cruises we've been on, except for the Koningsdam, by having a directional sign letting walkers know which way to walk. Now, for those folks just taking a stroll on the promenade they pretty much know that sign is not for them, but it helps the lap walkers know which way the flow is going. However, on the Koningsdam is was a mess and that's why made those comments here as well as to HAL. As far as being a new thing on cruise ships, I'll let someone else speak to that. All I know is it seems like this practice is not going to disappear from cruise ships with a covered promenade any time soon. Of course, that's just my opinion.

[veryseasonedtraveler]

Dear Ayrity, I am in my early 70's and really enjoy my 12-14 laps around the promenade. Don't want to be on a machine, nor don't want to be in the hot sun, want to be close to the sea. Sometimes one is able to stop and chat with those on the chaise lounges, or better yet walk with a newly made friend. When the cruise ends, as they all do, it is a sad farewell on the final go around.

 

As for books, it is nice being able to pick out something that you might not normally read.

Seeing someone enjoying a favorite book is a great conversation starter. I personally love turning the pages and not being constantly plugged in.

 

Glad you didn't want to offend[emoji4]

[Ayrity]

Dear Ayrity, I am in my early 70's and really enjoy my 12-14 laps around the promenade. Don't want to be on a machine, nor don't want to be in the hot sun, want to be close to the sea. Sometimes one is able to stop and chat with those on the chaise lounges, or better yet walk with a newly made friend. When the cruise ends, as they all do, it is a sad farewell on the final go around.

 

As for books, it is nice being able to pick out something that you might not normally read.

Seeing someone enjoying a favorite book is a great conversation starter. I personally love turning the pages and not being constantly plugged in.

 

Glad you didn't want to offend[emoji4]

 

Thanks for the answer. I understand you might not want to be in the sun (but really why else go on a cruise, at least to the Bahamas/Caribbean? haha) or on a machine, I was just pointing out that it is entirely possible to get exercise without the promenade deck, since it seemed like the person I was responding to said he/she didn't want to go on a longer cruise on the koningsdam because they need exercise.

 

It is super easy to download a ton of books you wouldn't normally read, either before you leave or while on board, so I don't see how you think physical books have the advantage in selection. I absolutely agree that books are great conversation starters, that's why you are always more than welcome to ask someone reading 'hey, whatcha reading?' it still works, trust me :).

 

As far as the pages go, they are nothing but a disadvantage, especially with the wind on a cruise. If you want to read outdoors, forget about it! Also, I hate how I can tell how much there is left in a physical book by just seeing how far through it I've gotten, I feel like it is spoilery somehow haha.

 

Anyways, everyone is totally allowed their opinion, and yes I mean no offense for sure. Just don't want people swearing off ships entirely and saying it's because they have nothing to read, or no where to exercise. Kinda silly.

 

Thanks for responding to me.

Edited August 30, 2016 by Ayrity

[RuthC]

I understand you might not want to be in the sun (but really why else go on a cruise, at least to the Bahamas/Caribbean? haha) ....

 

It is super easy to download a ton of books you wouldn't normally read, ....

There are a lot of reasons to go on a cruise that have nothing to do with sunshine. Until you understand that, you can't truly be considered a cruiser, and especially can't be considered a traveler. Heck, the Koningsdam hasn't even been near the Bahamas/Caribbean, so that locale has nothing to do with the objection to the lack of a promenade deck.

 

And no, it isn't "super easy to download a ton of books" if you don't have an e-reader, and don't desire to own one.

 

For years, no decades, no generations Holland America has provided certain amenities when traveling the world, and those have included a promenade where people can walk, stroll, or commune with the sea. Holland America has also provided a place where people can find a book to enjoy while out there, communing with the sea. The opportunity to share some information about the books with others while browsing the stacks is lost when one merely downloads to a machine.

 

One thing you are right about, and that is there are solutions to the problems on the Koningsdam. Those solutions include booking the other ships in the fleet. And, hopefully, HAL will return to its senses and return these amenities to this and future ships.

[RoyalVisit]

There are a lot of reasons to go on a cruise that have nothing to do with sunshine. Until you understand that, you can't truly be considered a cruiser, and especially can't be considered a traveler. Heck, the Koningsdam hasn't even been near the Bahamas/Caribbean, so that locale has nothing to do with the objection to the lack of a promenade deck.

 

And no, it isn't "super easy to download a ton of books" if you don't have an e-reader, and don't desire to own one.

 

For years, no decades, no generations Holland America has provided certain amenities when traveling the world, and those have included a promenade where people can walk, stroll, or commune with the sea. Holland America has also provided a place where people can find a book to enjoy while out there, communing with the sea. The opportunity to share some information about the books with others while browsing the stacks is lost when one merely downloads to a machine.

 

One thing you are right about, and that is there are solutions to the problems on the Koningsdam. Those solutions include booking the other ships in the fleet. And, hopefully, HAL will return to its senses and return these amenities to this and future ships.

 

Your comment: "Until you understand that, you can't truly be considered a cruiser, and especially can't be considered a traveler" is both opinionated and incorrect.

 

According to the dictionary these are the following definitions. Unlike Wikipedia, these definitions are not opinions.

 

Traveler: a person who is traveling or who often travels.

 

Cruiser: a person or thing that cruises.

 

Just because you have an opinion does not mean you should speak "down" to people or express your opinion in way that belittles their views. If a traveler prefers sun destinations so be it. If a traveler prefers cultural experiences so be it. If a traveler prefers long drives away from their home so be it.

 

Here's one more definition:

 

Condescension: an attitude of patronizing superiority; disdain.

[Steve_Red_Dog]

Can anybody provide more information about these automated handwash stations? The more I think about it the more difficulty envisioning large numbers of people standing singing the Happy Birthday song twice while a min-car wash scrubs away. Not to mention flashy rings getting caught, etc, etc.

 

Here's a photo I took our our recent cruise on the Koningsdam out of Amsterdam. These are touchless, so no risk of snagging jewelry. I tired it once. Good experience, but very slow process. I rarely saw anyone using the devices.

[Ayrity]

Your comment: "Until you understand that, you can't truly be considered a cruiser, and especially can't be considered a traveler" is both opinionated and incorrect.

 

According to the dictionary these are the following definitions. Unlike Wikipedia, these definitions are not opinions.

 

Traveler: a person who is traveling or who often travels.

 

Cruiser: a person or thing that cruises.

 

Just because you have an opinion does not mean you should speak "down" to people or express your opinion in way that belittles their views. If a traveler prefers sun destinations so be it. If a traveler prefers cultural experiences so be it. If a traveler prefers long drives away from their home so be it.

 

Here's one more definition:

 

Condescension: an attitude of patronizing superiority; disdain.

 

Appreciate the back up, I just left her alone, it sounded like she was close minded and didn't want to have a discussion, but just lecture what her beliefs are. Don't want to get bogged down in that! I wanted to understand people's perspectives that weren't my own, and ask a few questions and show why I believe what I do, and ask them to do the same, some people did that, some people can't find it in themselves. Oh well.

 

-Thanks again!

[Ken the cruiser]

Thanks for the answer. I understand you might not want to be in the sun (but really why else go on a cruise, at least to the Bahamas/Caribbean? haha) or on a machine, I was just pointing out that it is entirely possible to get exercise without the promenade deck, since it seemed like the person I was responding to said he/she didn't want to go on a longer cruise on the koningsdam because they need exercise.

 

It is super easy to download a ton of books you wouldn't normally read, either before you leave or while on board, so I don't see how you think physical books have the advantage in selection. I absolutely agree that books are great conversation starters, that's why you are always more than welcome to ask someone reading 'hey, whatcha reading?' it still works, trust me :).

 

As far as the pages go, they are nothing but a disadvantage, especially with the wind on a cruise. If you want to read outdoors, forget about it! Also, I hate how I can tell how much there is left in a physical book by just seeing how far through it I've gotten, I feel like it is spoilery somehow haha.

 

Anyways, everyone is totally allowed their opinion, and yes I mean no offense for sure. Just don't want people swearing off ships entirely and saying it's because they have nothing to read, or no where to exercise. Kinda silly.

 

Thanks for responding to me.

 

I understand where you are coming from, but you also have to understand where us older ones are coming from as well and why we love the traditions of HAL. For a little background, I joined the USAF in 1970 and became a mainframe computer operator. Then 10 years later the first word processors, which started as electric typewriters with a little memory, started appearing. And then of course by the 90's the computer world was changing almost daily and the rest is history. My point is that I'm 64 and have found in my travels that folks 70+ grew up without computers in their lives, but out of necessity to keep up with family and friends MAY have learned to do email and search the Web, but are also quite content living their lives without computers. So, reading books on a computer, when you've read bounded books your whole life probably isn't something you'd probably do.

 

As far as treadmills go, those for the most part are a young person thing. When you're 70+ for the most part, you're just happy to not be in a walker or worse and can still walk laps at your own pace around the promenade looking for wildlife or just enjoying the fresh breeze, even though at times in might be 30-40 knots in your face. Fun times!!

 

Now comes the reason why my DW and I enjoy going on HAL cruises. First of all, our kids are all grown and now it's time for us to be the kids again, at our pace of course, so we want to go on cruises where the cruise line caters to our age rather than the younger crowd. If we wanted to be around the younger crowd we would go on RCCL, Norwegian, MSC or Carnival to name a few. We also like to go to shows where we recognize the songs they play rather than those recognizable by the younger crowd. We like dressing up on formal nights. Well, not really, but they do serve some great meals such as steak and lobster. So it's worth the extra effort. But, most of all we go on a HAL cruise to be in a familiar surrounding, relax, go on excursions, walk on the promenade and above all escape from our everyday lives and just enjoy being us.

 

Oh, by the way, old people have had to change their behavior patters many, many tmes in life to make it to where they are today. So suggesting they should change their behavioral patterns again by getting with the times by reading ebooks rather than regular books or using a treadmill when they go on their favorite cruise line may not sit to well with some folks.

 

As far as your comments, Royal Visit, Ayrity pretty much started it when she "poked the bear" so to speak. In other words anytime anyone says "I don't want to offend anyone ..." and then goes on to call what they are doing silly is pretty condescending to begin with.

[Ayrity]

I understand where you are coming from, but you also have to understand where us older ones are coming from as well and why we love the traditions of HAL. For a little background, I joined the USAF in 1970 and became a mainframe computer operator. Then 10 years later the first word processors, which started as electric typewriters with a little memory, started appearing. And then of course by the 90's the computer world was changing almost daily and the rest is history. My point is that I'm 64 and have found in my travels that folks 70+ grew up without computers in their lives, but out of necessity to keep up with family and friends MAY have learned to do email and search the Web, but are also quite content living their lives without computers. So, reading books on a computer, when you've read bounded books your whole life probably isn't something you'd probably do.

 

As far as treadmills go, those for the most part are a young person thing. When you're 70+ for the most part, you're just happy to not be in a walker or worse and can still walk laps at your own pace around the promenade looking for wildlife or just enjoying the fresh breeze, even though at times in might be 30-40 knots in your face. Fun times!!

 

Now comes the reason why my DW and I enjoy going on HAL cruises. First of all, our kids are all grown and now it's time for us to be the kids again, at our pace of course, so we want to go on cruises where the cruise line caters to our age rather than the younger crowd. If we wanted to be around the younger crowd we would go on RCCL, Norwegian, MSC or Carnival to name a few. We also like to go to shows where we recognize the songs they play rather than those recognizable by the younger crowd. We like dressing up on formal nights. Well, not really, but they do serve some great meals such as steak and lobster. So it's worth the extra effort. But, most of all we go on a HAL cruise to be in a familiar surrounding, relax, go on excursions, walk on the promenade and above all escape from our everyday lives and just enjoy being us.

 

Oh, by the way, old people have had to change their behavior patters many, many tmes in life to make it to where they are today. So suggesting they should change their behavioral patterns again by getting with the times by reading ebooks rather than regular books or using a treadmill when they go on their favorite cruise line may not sit to well with some folks.

 

As far as your comments, Royal Visit, Ayrity pretty much started it when she "poked the bear" so to speak. In other words anytime anyone says "I don't want to offend anyone ..." and then goes on to call what they are doing silly is pretty condescending to begin with.

 

You are taking this way too harshly Ken, you know when someone says they don't want to offend, that's what it means right? I never suggested that anyone should change or said my way was better for everyone, go ahead, re read what I wrote. All I was trying to do was to help people who seemed to be upset about things or have a problem with aspects of this new ship find solutions to make it work for them. People are putting words in my mouth, and getting upset over literally nothing. I'm not forcing anyone to do anything, and everything I've said has been in a nice tone with a helpful intention. If you can't see that I feel sorry for you.

[Ken the cruiser]

You are taking this way too harshly Ken, you know when someone says they don't want to offend, that's what it means right? I never suggested that anyone should change or said my way was better for everyone, go ahead, re read what I wrote. All I was trying to do was to help people who seemed to be upset about things or have a problem with aspects of this new ship find solutions to make it work for them. People are putting words in my mouth, and getting upset over literally nothing. I'm not forcing anyone to do anything, and everything I've said has been in a nice tone with a helpful intention. If you can't see that I feel sorry for you.

 

I understand and now hopefully you're a little more informed as to why older people like to read real books rather than on computers and/or do laps around the promenade. I hope your wedding on your November cruise turns out great and everything goes perfect as I'm sure it will!! Best of wishes to both of you.

[Fouremco]

Just to add my 2 cents worth, not all older people prefer "real books" any more than all younger readers eschew them. I'll be 69 on my coming birthday and I've used ebooks ever since I purchased the initial Kindle. There are many of my generation who love e-readers, just as there are many who want to stick with books. And let's not forget audio-books, not my cup of tea but still very popular.

 

The only other point I'd make is that one should take advantage of alternatives when they exist. If my Kindle died, I'd happily pick up a book while waiting for it to be fixed or replaced. If HAL continues the Koningsdam's trend in minimizing its library holdings, then book lovers might just want to consider ebooks as an alternative to lugging a collection of books aboard.

[Sundagger]

Just to add my 2 cents worth, not all older people prefer "real books" any more than all younger readers eschew them. I'll be 69 on my coming birthday and I've used ebooks ever since I purchased the initial Kindle. There are many of my generation who love e-readers, just as there are many who want to stick with books. And let's not forget audio-books, not my cup of tea but still very popular.

 

The only other point I'd make is that one should take advantage of alternatives when they exist. If my Kindle died, I'd happily pick up a book while waiting for it to be fixed or replaced. If HAL continues the Koningsdam's trend in minimizing its library holdings, then book lovers might just want to consider ebooks as an alternative to lugging a collection of books aboard.

 

I'm 75 and am looking forward to my Koningsdam cruise in November. I have no desire to walk around the promenade - I have a treadmill in my bedroom and will use the exercise equipment (at least the treadmill) on board. I have 4 floor to ceiling bookcases filled with books (and another one filled with DVDs). I sometimes read a paper book, but lately I've been reading books on my 2 B&N Nooks. So handy. I won't miss the traditional HAL library.

 

I spend a large amount of time on my various desktop and laptop computers, phablet, Nooks. I'm hoping that there will be an *unlimited* internet option on this cruise as there was on the Sunfarer cruise we took 2 years ago. My 74 year old "significant other" will be bringing several devices. I understand that there are multiple USB outlets in the suite, so we'll never have a charging crisis.

 

I wish people wouldn't generalize the elderly as universal technophobes.

[Btimmer]

I'm 75 and am looking forward to my Koningsdam cruise in November. I have no desire to walk around the promenade - I have a treadmill in my bedroom and will use the exercise equipment (at least the treadmill) on board. I have 4 floor to ceiling bookcases filled with books (and another one filled with DVDs). I sometimes read a paper book, but lately I've been reading books on my 2 B&N Nooks. So handy. I won't miss the traditional HAL library.

 

 

 

I spend a large amount of time on my various desktop and laptop computers, phablet, Nooks. I'm hoping that there will be an *unlimited* internet option on this cruise as there was on the Sunfarer cruise we took 2 years ago. My 74 year old "significant other" will be bringing several devices. I understand that there are multiple USB outlets in the suite, so we'll never have a charging crisis.

 

 

 

I wish people wouldn't generalize the elderly as universal technophobes.

 

 

 

Yes you'll love the multiple USB outlets in the cabins. (From a 71 year old computer nerd)

 

 

Tim in Burien, WA

[Happily@Sea]

I was recently on a train where there was a good mix of all ages. Seniors like me reading both books and e-readers, and teens - 30-somethings doing the same - less books but still a sizable amount.

 

I refuse to lug around what would be an appropriate-sized suitcase for books when I can carry my e-reader in my backpack and its weight is negligible. If it's short trip, I might just carry a book or two, but a cruise - it is out of the question to be able to have enough books with me.

[Ken the cruiser]

My humble apologies to all those tech savy senior cruisers who have bridged the technology gap and read eBooks and/or use a treadmill on the cruise! I only meant to point out that there are still many others that haven't and truly enjoy going to the ship's library to find a good book and/or try to stay in shape in their own way by walking around the promenade. Again, my apologies if I have stepped on any toes along the way.

[Sundagger]

My humble apologies to all those tech savy senior cruisers who have bridged the technology gap and read eBooks and/or use a treadmill on the cruise! I only meant to point out that there are still many others that haven't and truly enjoy going to the ship's library to find a good book and/or try to stay in shape in their own way by walking around the promenade. Again, my apologies if I have stepped on any toes along the way.

Not a problem for me. Even AARP is guilty of over-generalizing at times.:)

[Mara Suung]

I'm almost 66, and love HAL for all the reasons you listed. I have 2 laptops, 2 ereaders, and many shelves in my library. Looking forward to strolling the promenade, dressing for dinner, meeting new people in December on the N A. Plenty to enjoy on board, but please, HAL, leave us the libraries!

[KayKay Nelson]

We will be on her as well! Cannot wait to do our first TA on her first TA!

[sailorBill37]

I've looked at the deck plans and can not locate a laundromat on any deck. Does Koningsdam have laundromats and if so where are they? I leave in 5 days to embark on a 24 day voyage; need answer to plan what clothing to pack. Thanks, Bill

[kazu]

I've looked at the deck plans and can not locate a laundromat on any deck. Does Koningsdam have laundromats and if so where are they? I leave in 5 days to embark on a 24 day voyage; need answer to plan what clothing to pack. Thanks, Bill

 

None of the larger ships have laundromats - Vista, Signature & Pinnacle class (Koningsdam is Pinnacle class). You can get an unlimited package for HAL to do your laundry for around $7 per day (slightly higher in Europe) or you can pay by the bag (all you can stuff in it) for around $20 (slightly higher in Europe).

 

The laundry is well done on HAL on the ships we have been on. Hope this helps :)

 

Oops, edited to say - those costs are per cabin, not per person.

Edited September 10, 2016 by kazu

[Ken the cruiser]

None of the larger ships have laundromats - Vista, Signature & Pinnacle class (Koningsdam is Pinnacle class). You can get an unlimited package for HAL to do your laundry for around $7 per day (slightly higher in Europe) or you can pay by the bag (all you can stuff in it) for around $20 (slightly higher in Europe).

 

The laundry is well done on HAL on the ships we have been on. Hope this helps :)

 

Oops, edited to say - those costs are per cabin, not per person.

 

We never knew about unlimited laundry until we went on the K'dam this past summer. Wow! What a great deal! We were filling the bag every other day and it was either back clean and folded that evening or early the next day! Definitely a must on all future cruises!

[kazu]

We never knew about unlimited laundry until we went on the K'dam this past summer. Wow! What a great deal! We were filling the bag every other day and it was either back clean and folded that evening or early the next day! Definitely a must on all future cruises!

 

And pressed too :)

 

It's a good deal IMO too :). And an even better deal when you get to 4* since laundry is free as part of your benefits :)

Edited September 10, 2016 by kazu

[sailorBill37]

Thanks Jacqui, I am 4* but prefer to do my no iron shirts myself. I also sail in the newer Princess Royal class ships and they have placed a laundromat in each deck. I was told the laundrys were not in the original design until cruisers complained.

I see that we will be cruising on the Rotterdam together in March 2017!

Bill Fox

[kazu]

Thanks Jacqui, I am 4* but prefer to do my no iron shirts myself. I also sail in the newer Princess Royal class ships and they have placed a laundromat in each deck. I was told the laundrys were not in the original design until cruisers complained.

I see that we will be cruising on the Rotterdam together in March 2017!

Bill Fox

 

I thought you were four star - Happy to help Bill :). For your no iron shirts, we have sent DH's to laundry and had no issues. You can also use drycleaning if need be or handwash.

 

Won't be an issue on our Rotterdam cruise next year :). Looking forward to meeting you on board :)