NCL Does Not "Nickle and Dime"

[xriva]

If I have to pay extra on one line for something I can get for free on another line then I am not having a comparable experience.

 

How is NCL not providing a comparable experience? It is a comparable experience. They have big ships with bars, restaurants and entertainment that take you from place to place. Is your definition of "comparable" actually "I wasn't to sail NCL but have them be just like Carnival"?

 

Should Disney lower their fares to other lines' ranges and add casinos? Should everybody have Freestyle? Then, it would be comparable, by your definition.

 

Lines are different. If you don't like one line, choose another. Just stop howling about why one line that doesn't fit your lifestyle is wrong and evil.

 

People bitch about Southwest not having assigned seats, but that's part of their model. You want an assigned seat? Fly somebody else. Just know, you may pay extra for it. You'll still get to your destination.

 

 

 

 

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[NLH Arizona]

 

People bitch about Southwest not having assigned seats, but that's part of their model. You want an assigned seat? Fly somebody else. Just know, you may pay extra for it. You'll still get to your destination.

 

Count me in as one of these folks. Don't like that I can't have an assigned seat, so my go $'s elsewhere. I would do the same with NCL; if I didn't like their business practices, I go somewhere else. Edited July 7, 2016 by NLH Arizona

[sparks1093]

How is NCL not providing a comparable experience? It is a comparable experience. They have big ships with bars, restaurants and entertainment that take you from place to place. Is your definition of "comparable" actually "I wasn't to sail NCL but have them be just like Carnival"?

 

Should Disney lower their fares to other lines' ranges and add casinos? Should everybody have Freestyle? Then, it would be comparable, by your definition.

 

Lines are different. If you don't like one line, choose another. Just stop howling about why one line that doesn't fit your lifestyle is wrong and evil.

 

People bitch about Southwest not having assigned seats, but that's part of their model. You want an assigned seat? Fly somebody else. Just know, you may pay extra for it. You'll still get to your destination.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums mobile app

 

Please note that I said if I have to pay something extra on one line that I don't have to pay on another- that's a critical distinction. I can get room service on NCL and I can get room service on CCL. One of them I have to pay for, one of them I don't. Bar tips on NCL are 18%, they're 15% on other lines. It's the way NCL maximizes their onboard revenue and they are very good at it. As has been pointed out the extra charges are easy enough to avoid, but I don't want to go on vacation worrying about avoiding things.

[zqvol]

What do you call not reducing the high price of bottled water now that folks cannot bring bottled water aboard?

 

I call it smart. If you don't like the water that the ship provides, bring a Brita on board and filter it yourself. The uproar about water is much ado about nothing.

[punkincc]

True nickel and diming is one thing. Offering optional goods and services for purchase is another.

 

The problem is that a number of CC posters can't tell the difference.

 

 

I have never had any problem with a cruiseline offering a number of "options" and leaving it up to me how I decide to spend my vacation dollars. I never considered that nickle and diming. But now the "options" don't seem so optional these days. NCL is very clever indeed at increasing that on board per passenger revenue.

 

Take Specialty Dining for example. Not so long ago, in the time of no dining packages and flat cover charges, we did what we felt like. Maybe specialty twice, maybe not. Then those clever people at NCL came up with a la carte dining. Suddenly, it was a very wise decision to buy a package. 3 night minimum requirement. Now NCL has some money upfront and we are locked into X number of nights. Use them or lose them. Then they came up with an auto 18% service charge, which IMO is the equivalent of a "Resort Fee". Give away lots of packages as promos, but collect the 18% anyway. Now they have even more money upfront.

 

Same can be said for the drinks. It was easy pre UBP. If we felt like a drink, we had one. If not, our money stayed in our pockets. Then NCL started offering UBP packages for prices which would require you to be an Olympic drinker to more than break even on. Drink prices increased substantially so you'd feel like you were getting a really good deal. Few takers for purchased packages? No problem, they'll just give them away as Promos to increase bookings and then they'll still collect the 18% upfront on the free package price.

 

We have the promo UBP for a 29 day cruise. The 18% comes to $800 plus. Will we drink that much booze? It may not be "nickle and diming" but it seems impossible to have the same cruise experience we once did without spending substantially more. It's all optional, yes, but I definately feel like I am being manipulated to spend more than I would have if they were still operating under the old pay as you go for what you want system.

Edited July 7, 2016 by punkincc

[richstowe]

I have never had any problem with a cruiseline offering a number of "options" and leaving it up to me how I decide to spend my vacation dollars. I never considered that nickle and diming. But now the "options" don't seem so optional these days. NCL is very clever indeed at increasing that on board per passenger revenue.

 

Take Specialty Dining for example. Not so long ago, in the time of no dining packages and flat cover charges, we did what we felt like. Maybe specialty twice, maybe not. Then those clever people at NCL came up with a la carte dining. Suddenly, it was a very wise decision to buy a package. 3 night minimum requirement. Now NCL has some money upfront and we are locked into X number of nights. Use them or lose them. Then they came up with an auto 18% service charge, which IMO is the equivalent of a "Resort Fee". Give away lots of packages as promos, but collect the 18% anyway. Now they have even more money upfront.

 

Same can be said for the drinks. It was easy pre UBP. If we felt like a drink, we had one. If not, our money stayed in our pockets. Then NCL started offering UBP packages for prices which would require you to be an Olympic drinker to more than break even on. Drink prices increased substantially so you'd feel like you were getting a really good deal. Few takers for purchased packages? No problem, they'll just give them away as Promos to increase bookings and then they'll still collect the 18% upfront on the free package price.

 

We have the promo UBP for a 29 day cruise. The 18% comes to $800 plus. Will we drink that much booze? It may not be "nickle and diming" but it seems impossible to have the same cruise experience we once did without spending substantially more. It's all optional, yes, but I definately feel like I am being manipulated to spend more than I would have if they were still operating under the old pay as you go for what you want system.

Great post although I noticed you have 2 clever's and mention feeling manipulated . I hope the defenders appreciate that instead of the term nickle and dimed and feeling screwed over you used these euphamisims . Well done .:D

[Regguy]

I don't think nickle and diming quite captures what NCL is doing, but at the same time, I don't think it is merely "charging for options services."

 

NCL is pretty committed to a very particular marketing strategy in which they are attempting to add revenue while at the same time masking it or taking advantage of psychological forces in consumers that wear down their reluctance to pay.

 

This is just the cruise line equivalent of the hotel "resort fee," where the cost of the hotel comes up as $59 when you do a search on expedia, or whatever, but then adds a $30 resort charge. Why does this work? Why don't consumers simply view this as $89 per night? Dunno. Many don't. Same principle with the car dealer who you negotiation like crazy and who then tries to put the hard sale on you for option products when you're in the finance office.

 

NCL is trying to obscure the cost through clever marketing. They pretend that the charge for the "free" beverage package is tips, because who is going complain about that. ("Oh, gee, I would have tipped anyway, now I don't have to.") When in fact it's the cost of alleged "tips" on an artificially inflated number that exceeds vastly the amount that 90 percent of those with the package would actually consume. They add a virtually mandatory service charge, which is actually just an additional payment that they don't have include in the cruise fare, to artificially deflate the presented price of the cruise when you search their website (though they aren't alone in this). They devote large portions of the public areas of the ship to restaurants that now are for-additional-profit generators. And now they do things like try to create categories of products that can be consumed on board that are not part of the all inclusive experience and which are extremely cheap -- coffee drinks, bottled water -- that they can significantly upcharge.

 

None of that is inherently evil. But it does really increase the odds of sticker shock when the final bill gets slipped under your door on the last night, and more fundamentally it reflects a rather cynical marketing outlook. And while all lines are guilty of it to some degree or another, NCL seems to be in the forefront. If you learned tomorrow that a line was charging a small upcharge for main dining room advance reservation times, or was starting to reserve large number of seats to sell them as "premium" reserved seats at the regular nightly show, you really wouldn't be too surprised to learn that it was NCL, would you?

 

Our first cruises were on Disney. I remember those first few cruises thinking, "wow, I can just have this any time and there's no charge"? Drinks of the day were $4, and the other specials seemed really reasonable, and there was no sticker shock at the end -- actually the opposite. But then Disney priced us out. We switched to NCL and have never looked back. Until now. It's not any one thing.

 

There is considerable truth to the point that I think many are making, which is that the low cost carrier airline model has benefits for the frugal traveller. If you're good with the 29" pitch seat, and you don't need priority boarding, and you don't bring a bag on, and you want to get from point A to point B, the model works great, because you pay for no extras and benefit from the price they are trying to keep artificially low. I only get to cruise once a year. I'm not interested in a LCC cruise line anymore.

[xriva]

Please note that I said if I have to pay something extra on one line that I don't have to pay on another- that's a critical distinction.

 

Then, choose based on what is a critical distinction to you. It may not be critical at all to someone else.

 

A critical distinction does not mean they are not comparable. You are comparing, or you wouldn't have found the distinction.

 

If paying for room service is a show-stopper, then sail somewhere that has room service for free. If the fares are higher, or the entertainment sucks or the people are all old, those are also critical distinctions to other people.

 

I don't understand why people just stay with a product they don't like and bash it in the hopes the company will "see the light." It rarely happens. NCL is not your girlfriend. You're not going to change her without buying the company and setting your own policies.

[Tangocherie]

Great post although I noticed you have 2 clever's and mention feeling manipulated . I hope the defenders appreciate that instead of the term nickle and dimed and feeling screwed over you used these euphamisims . Well done .:D

 

"Defenders". Richstowe, is that the new term for chearleaders? Not that you were aiming at anyone in particular. ;)

[Larlin]

There is free filtered water all over the ship that is as clean or cleaner than bottled water. It is your choice to pay for bottled water. Once again this is another example of people taking advantage of something that NCL allowed and had to cancel due to abuses by a small minority.

 

Absolutely!!! I couldn't have said it better myself. Thank you.

[SeaShark]

"Defenders". Richstowe, is that the new term for chearleaders? Not that you were aiming at anyone in particular. ;)

 

Don't forget...the person who labels people as "cheerleaders" is nothing more than a "hater".

 

The person who labels people as "defenders" is nothing more than an "attacker".

 

 

Labels are handy when the facts don't support your position and you need to, as they say, "shoot the messenger" to get your point across.

[PoppyandNana]

I agree. I can avoid the cow plops in a field easily enough if I want to take a walk but if I can walk through a field with no cow plops I would choose that one;). (And if people do use it in a disparaging way why let it get to you, they aren't disparaging you or your loved ones.)

 

The are called cow pies

[Tangocherie]

Don't forget...the person who labels people as "cheerleaders" is nothing more than a "hater".

 

The person who labels people as "defenders" is nothing more than an "attacker".

 

 

Labels are handy when the facts don't support your position and you need to, as they say, "shoot the messenger" to get your point across.

 

I do hope you read that I labelled no one. Thanks for your philosophy 101.:cool:

[SeaShark]

I do hope you read that I labelled no one. Thanks for your philosophy 101.:cool:

 

Never said (or thought) that you did. I was supporting your comment to the other poster who was labeling people.

[tinkr2]

Assumption Alert - is the 18% being charged on a 'free' UBP being passed onto the relevant crew?

 

(For info - in Europe the 'free' UBP does not attract the extra 18%.)

 

Think about this for a minute and then ask yourself "does NCL pass on the 18%s to the crew from some pax but then NCL covers the 18% from other pax?"

 

Of course not - the 18% goes to their bottom line (or in Europe they roll it into the base cruise fare).

 

There is - at best - a tenuous link between the 18% and the bar crews' wages. The crews' wages do not go up and down depending on how many pax have the 'free' UBP and where those pax are from.

I completely disagree with you.The crew does get tips. There is a law in England that prevents them from putting gratuity on an incentive. So yes, NCL crew is either eating it or they have increased the cost. All of you guests are incensed that you would have to pay gratuity on a free drink are ridiculous. You were paying gratuity on every drink they rang up and now you are just prepaying it.

All this rage over the charges and all these statements that you're going to another line is silly. I cruise the other lines.

These are the exact same charges as the other lines.

Water is expensive and not allowed to be brought on board RCCL, it can't be brought on Carnival but they have lowered price. There is a 2.95 charge for after 11 room service and they reduced the menu on RCCL. On carnival, they added a bunch of charged items on the room service menu.

Lobster is free one night on RCCL and on 7 days on Carnival. They took it away on all the other nights and now offer it for 29.95.

Specialty dining is an optional expensive experience on all the lines.

RCCL charges for movies, rock walls and all sorts of fun nonsense, all optional.

For those of you leaving, head on over to Disney, for twice as much.

Or check out Princess, great food, hope you enjoy just reading by the pool:o

[RDC1]

I'm not 100% convinced of that. I have seen posts where the poster had spoken to the bar staff and since the inception of the 18% the bar staff has been getting a salary. If any excess gratuity over the salaries is kept by NCL then I would say they are not doing right by their employees.

 

Depends. When they say that they receive a salary the staff might mean that they are an amount that is paid by a central fund, and not determined by individual tips on the actual slips they process.

 

They does not mean that the cruise line keeps the difference.

 

Keep in mind that the cruise lines are publicly traded companies on US stock exchanges. They do comply with US accounting standards in the SEC filings.

 

Gratuities that are received and paid to employees are not considered to be revenue, nor are they an expense of the company. They are effectively outside of the accounting system as far as financial reporting is concerned.

 

If the company were to do as you say and not pay out the complete amount to employees then they would become reportable on the companies financial filings and any change in practice would be a material event and need to be referenced. I have gone back through several years of filings and cannot find any reference to a change in revenue where gratuities are kept as revenue by the company and therefore considered part of revenue nor have a found where all payments paid to employees are not salary and therefore fully listed as expenses.

 

Based upon that I consider gratuities to still be gratuities and are paid out to employees.

[RDC1]

I completely disagree with you.The crew does get tips. There is a law in England that prevents them from putting gratuity on an incentive. So yes, NCL crew is either eating it or they have increased the cost. All of you guests are incensed that you would have to pay gratuity on a free drink are ridiculous. You were paying gratuity on every drink they rang up and now you are just prepaying it.

All this rage over the charges and all these statements that you're going to another line is silly. I cruise the other lines.

These are the exact same charges as the other lines.

Water is expensive and not allowed to be brought on board RCCL, it can't be brought on Carnival but they have lowered price. There is a 2.95 charge for after 11 room service and they reduced the menu on RCCL. On carnival, they added a bunch of charged items on the room service menu.

Lobster is free one night on RCCL and on 7 days on Carnival. They took it away on all the other nights and now offer it for 29.95.

Specialty dining is an optional expensive experience on all the lines.

RCCL charges for movies, rock walls and all sorts of fun nonsense, all optional.

For those of you leaving, head on over to Disney, for twice as much.

Or check out Princess, great food, hope you enjoy just reading by the pool:o

 

Last time I looked the company was not incorporated in England, nor is their stock an English stock. They are listed on the US stock exchange so I doubt that UK employment law would be applicable.

 

Now they are incorporated in Bermuda so if Bermuda had the same law then it would be applicable.

[richstowe]

Great post although I noticed you have 2 clever's and mention feeling manipulated . I hope the defenders appreciate that instead of the term nickle and dimed and feeling screwed over you used these euphamisims . Well done .:D

"Defenders". Richstowe, is that the new term for chearleaders? Not that you were aiming at anyone in particular. ;)

Strange comportment on behalf of Norwegian to say the least. On the other hand, given recent ways of doing business, maybe not so strange at all.

 

Lets get the "defenders" in on this and munch on the popcorn. ;)

I noticed you used the same term . :D:D

[tinkr2]

Last time I looked the company was not incorporated in England, nor is their stock an English stock. They are listed on the US stock exchange so I doubt that UK employment law would be applicable.

 

Now they are incorporated in Bermuda so if Bermuda had the same law then it would be applicable.

 

While the employment laws are not valid there, the laws regarding the marketing of a product still pertain to them.

I do however love the fact that you examined the bottom line. Everyone wants to not tip.... but drink all day and night for free.

[RDC1]

While the employment laws are not valid there, the laws regarding the marketing of a product still pertain to them.

I do however love the fact that you examined the bottom line. Everyone wants to not tip.... but drink all day and night for free.

 

It would be interesting for someone to file a claim under the PTR for the increased cost to them for the change in policy concerning water. All they should have to show is that water was allowed to be carried on when they booked, that they were not informed of the change in policy prior to their last cancellation date and that they were denied cancelling without penalty in accordance with the requirements of the PTR.

 

Nothing in the US would allow it, but someone who purchased in the UK might be successful in filing a claim under the PTR.

[sjh422]

Yup!yes! True!,,

 

The desalinated water is almost identical in composition to the bottled water . In some cases it is more pure than bottled water. It takes three clicks of a mouse to do some research and see that people are neither being pointed or over salted by desalinated ship water. Does everyone refuse to drink the water served at dinner? I've never seen a plastic water bottle at a dining room table in many many cruises.

 

This nickel and dime garbage has been way over played . I don't spend one penny that I don't want to. Letting the loss of a Coke product ruin one' s cruise is insane.

 

We also cruise RCL. There is absolutely a service charge in specialty dining, water bottles, etc. and the bottled warpter is the same damned price as NCL. They do Not allow soda and water to be carried aboard.

 

Such first world problems, folks.

 

5 straight days of this on CC makes me need a laaaaaaarge break.

 

 

I beg to differ on RCI policy of water and soda carry on.

 

Unless there has been a very recent change in RCI water and soda carry on policy, I was able to take an 8 pack of bottled water and a 12 pack of Coca Cola on my RCI Allure of the Seas cruise 2 weeks ago.

.

[david_sobe]

Look, I find this whole "Nickle and Dime" complaint a bit silly. All the major cruise lines offer a great all-inclusive experience and no guest is required to pay one additional dime, or even a nickle, on board.

 

To put some perspective on this, here's a list of totally plausible but ridiculous charges that would be legitimately called nickles and dimes.

 

1. In the MDR, 3 complimentary items and 10 upcharge items.
   
2. In the MDR, charging for additional appeitzer, main and dessert.
   
3. A preferred table charge to sit by the window, even at night.
   
4. An upcharge section in the buffet.
   
5. The Beverage Package covering only 1 pour in a cocktail. For example, you order a Black Russion and the vodka is covered but you have to pay $5 for the Kahlua.
   
6. A printing fee in the Photo Gallery.
   
7. A charge to just take pictures.
   
8. A Pool Towel Rental fee.
   
9. Deck chair reservation fee, by the hour.
   
10. A security fee every time you board the ship, even in ports of call.
    
11. A charge for Main Theater shows.
    
12. A charge for comedy shows.
    
13. A no-show charge for dining reservations.
    
14. Room to room phone calls billed by the minute.
    
15. A fine for missing the safety drill.
    
16. A storage fee for duty free purchased on board or in port.
    

All the extra charges I see people complaining about, none are secret or hidden in any way. They are all optional and easily avoidable. And none, at least in my perspective are make-or-break for having a great cruise.

Did not NCL start charging for upcharges in the MDR?

Does NCL not charge for some of their better entertainment? Other cruise lines never charge anything for any entertainment venue.

No charge for taking pictures? How nice!

 

EVERY cruise line and EVERY vacation resort nickel and dimes their customers. Some are worse than others. Why should NCL be immune from criticism or discussing it?

 

I stay at Hilton resorts all over the country. They are even worse for nickel and diming than NCL. They have a huge outdoor parking lot but they charge you to park your car, even on your own. They add $10 "resort" fee to your bill every night of your stay. In a sense they are charging you to use the pool, hot tubs, bikes, etc even if you never use any of it. The resort "fee" entitles you to one free appetizer each day. However no drinks are included so the resort actually makes money because most people would order drinks to go with their appetizer (pure genius on their part). They charge you for internet service. They charge you extra if you bring a dog. The list goes on and on. If this was a hotel forum, would it not be fair to discus these extra charges without some going crazy and leaping to defend Hilton resorts?

Get the idea?

[localoneguy]

I guess all this " if I don't use it I don't care if they charge you " talk will end when sheets and blankets and soap and hangers all start costing. my point is they are taking what used to be totally carefree way of travelling and making it stressful. sorry all inclusive resorts are beginning to look appealling

[Forewatch]

Did not NCL start charging for upcharges in the MDR?

Does NCL not charge for some of their better entertainment? Other cruise lines never charge anything for any entertainment venue.

No charge for taking pictures? How nice!

 

EVERY cruise line and EVERY vacation resort nickel and dimes their customers. Some are worse than others. Why should NCL be immune from criticism or discussing it?

 

I stay at Hilton resorts all over the country. They are even worse for nickel and diming than NCL. They have a huge outdoor parking lot but they charge you to park your car, even on your own. They add $10 "resort" fee to your bill every night of your stay. In a sense they are charging you to use the pool, hot tubs, bikes, etc even if you never use any of it. The resort "fee" entitles you to one free appetizer each day. However no drinks are included so the resort actually makes money because most people would order drinks to go with their appetizer (pure genius on their part). They charge you for internet service. They charge you extra if you bring a dog. The list goes on and on. If this was a hotel forum, would it not be fair to discus these extra charges without some going crazy and leaping to defend Hilton resorts?

Get the idea?

 

You are absolutely correct. However, the key is.. They do it "because they can." If you (plural you.. No you in particular) continue patronizing these places with no push back, then you're allowing them to do it more and more.

 

This latest move by NCL is unacceptable.. And everyone who objects needs to write and call NCL to let them know.. And you must vote with your feet.

[sparks1093]

Then, choose based on what is a critical distinction to you. It may not be critical at all to someone else.

 

A critical distinction does not mean they are not comparable. You are comparing, or you wouldn't have found the distinction.

 

If paying for room service is a show-stopper, then sail somewhere that has room service for free. If the fares are higher, or the entertainment sucks or the people are all old, those are also critical distinctions to other people.

 

I don't understand why people just stay with a product they don't like and bash it in the hopes the company will "see the light." It rarely happens. NCL is not your girlfriend. You're not going to change her without buying the company and setting your own policies.

 

One can't criticize a company and do business with them? Where have I ever said that this is a show stopper? Where have I said that I hate the product? I happen to like NCL (not a fan of Del Rio but only because he is morphing NCL into something I probably won't like). Seeing what is going on is the first part of being an informed consumer.