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NCL's Frustrating New Drink policy

AK Dreaming

By AK Dreaming,
in Norwegian Cruise Line

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swedish weave

swedish weave

Posted
Posted
Correlation does not equal causation. Fire trucks are associated with fires. That doesn't mean fire trucks cause fires. That's what you (and your doctor's) data implies when you use observational studies as evidence of causation.

 

Here's a better doctor with better analysis:

 

Wow !!! You are really stretching to try to support your comment. Are you saying the medical profession doesn't know what they are talking about ???

 

How the he$$ can fire trucks correlate with diet sodas ???

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4774Papa

4774Papa

Posted
Posted
Correlation does not equal causation. Fire trucks are associated with fires. That doesn't mean fire trucks cause fires. That's what you (and your doctor's) data implies when you use observational studies as evidence of causation.

 

Here's a better doctor with better analysis:

 

Thanks for the video. Interesting that 85% of the video involved whether artificial sweeteners cause cancer, which never was my concern.

 

The doctor briefly examines some of the other issues that I found extensively discussed on other health sites. This video doesn't prove a lack of causation.

 

I don't drink sodas, diet or otherwise for two reasons.

First, I don't care for them anymore.

Second, there are enough medical professionals that advise against them.

 

Further, I know more than one person that drank more than a couple of diet sodas a day and they had acid reflux. That is not scientific proof, but frankly, it makes a lot of sense to avoid the risk, especially when I would rather drink water or ice tea instead.

 

The soda packages that the cruise lines sell don't make sense if you drink one or two diet sodas a day, so that means people that buy those packages are probably headed for acid reflux.

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Sizzlechest

Sizzlechest

Posted
Posted
That would be a good example as well.

 

Like swimming, or sitting in a hot tub, walking the rope course, and watching a performance in a theater? There are lots of things that are enjoyable, but have no demonstrable health benefits on paper. If you wish to live a joyless life, that's your prerogative. Please realize your opinion is not share by many others.

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Sizzlechest

Sizzlechest

Posted
Posted
Thanks for the video. Interesting that 85% of the video involved whether artificial sweeteners cause cancer, which never was my concern.

 

It's been a concern for decades and it's still believed by many people even though there is no evidence.

 

The doctor briefly examines some of the other issues that I found extensively discussed on other health sites. This video doesn't prove a lack of causation.

 

The burden of proof is on YOU to provide evidence. I can make a claim sailing on a cruise ship causes health problems. Should cruising be discouraged due to health concerns until enough evidence shows it's safe?

 

 

I don't drink sodas, diet or otherwise for two reasons.

First, I don't care for them anymore.

Second, there are enough medical professionals that advise against them.

 

Ah, the "Argument from authority" fallacy. Lack of evidence doesn't matter, because "top men" told me otherwise. It's why phrenology is still practiced, right?

 

 

Further, I know more than one person that drank more than a couple of diet sodas a day and they had acid reflux. That is not scientific proof, but frankly, it makes a lot of sense to avoid the risk, especially when I would rather drink water or ice tea instead.

 

Now you're guilty of using the "anecdotal fallacy."

 

The soda packages that the cruise lines sell don't make sense if you drink one or two diet sodas a day, so that means people that buy those packages are probably headed for acid reflux.

 

And cancer, too. I heard a guy who heard from another guy his sister's ex boyfriend drank a soda and got cancer the next day. It must be true!

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4774Papa

4774Papa

Posted
Posted
It's been a concern for decades and it's still believed by many people even though there is no evidence.

 

 

 

The burden of proof is on YOU to provide evidence. I can make a claim sailing on a cruise ship causes health problems. Should cruising be discouraged due to health concerns until enough evidence shows it's safe?

 

 

 

 

Ah, the "Argument from authority" fallacy. Lack of evidence doesn't matter, because "top men" told me otherwise. It's why phrenology is still practiced, right?

 

 

 

 

Now you're guilty of using the "anecdotal fallacy."

 

 

 

And cancer, too. I heard a guy who heard from another guy his sister's ex boyfriend drank a soda and got cancer the next day. It must be true!

 

There may or may not be studies that support my concern for the safety of diet sodas. I am not a health professional, but find my doctor's advise on health matters to be of value. By the way, my family doctor retire a few years ago and he held the same opinion. All that proves is that some doctors hold that opinion, but I would expect their advise to be based on something.

 

As for my having the so called burden of proof, I am not in a court of law, suing someone, simply expressing my opinion.

 

By the way, my friends that had acid reflux were advised by their doctors to drink no more diet sodas.

 

Regarding studies on the subject, I have done some research. There appears to be some studies that support my concern.

http://www.prevention.com/food/healthy-eating-tips/health-risks-drinking-diet-soda

 

 

My Mother was a nurse and subscribed to Prevention Magazine, I remember reading it when I was young. It states:

 

Unfortunately, what seems like a healthier habit—hey, it’s not like you’re drinking a can of empty calories, right?—could actually be making you fat. In fact, a University of Minnesota study of almost 10,000 adults found that even just one diet soda a day was linked to a 34% higher risk of metabolic syndrome, a group of symptoms including belly fat and high cholesterol that put you at risk for heart disease.

But people are still sipping the stuff, and in record numbers. Kids consume diet soda at more than double the rate of the last decade, according to research in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition. Among adults, consumption has grown almost 25%.

 

Need the motivation to kick your soda habit for good? Put down the can, and check out the 7 Side Effects of Drinking Diet Soda.

 

 

Another study

The health risks of consuming diet soda have made headlines before. In 2011, a study conducted by researchers at the University of Miami Miller School of Medicine found that daily diet soda consumption was linked to a higher risk for stroke and heart attack.

The study, which followed more than 2,500 New Yorkers for nine or more years, found that people who drank diet soda every day had a 61 percent higher risk of vascular events, including stroke and heart attack, than those who completely eschewed the diet drinks, according to researchers who presented their results today at the American Stroke Association’s International Stroke Conference in Los Angeles.

 

Still, the researchers aren’t ready to tell consumers to skip diet sodas. More studies need to be done before that happens, said the report’s lead author Hannah Gardener, an epidemiologist at the University of Miami Miller School of Medicine.

 

There are more studies that I could post. Sure, as the last comment states, more studies should be made.

 

However, there appears to be more than supposition and bad logic on the part of my Doctors.

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Sizzlechest

Sizzlechest

Posted
Posted

Let me assist you, your doctor, your mother, and readers of Prevention magazine to help better understand some of the terminology in health articles.

 

When you hear about a "study," you would assume it's a carefully constructed experiment on humans to determine the efficacy or hard of a substance. It almost always is not. Most studies are "observational" studies. When you see the terms "cohort" or "case control" it's referring to this kind of research. Observation studies CAN NEVER find causality. They can only find "associations" or "links." So in this example, you discover a "link between diet soda consumption and diabetes or obesity" it shouldn't be too surprising. You would expect to see an association between diet soda and obesity since obese people are trying to lose weight. It would be the same as a study finding a link between "Weight Watchers" and obesity. Do you think Weight Watchers causes obesity?

 

The gold standard of studies are double blind experiments. This involves a control group and an intervention group in a laboratory setting. It's very difficult and expensive to do. Most of these studies are with mice/rats, which raise concerns over how well they translate to humans.

 

If you want a more detail explanation on how articles about nutrition get mangled by the press (especially Prevention magazine), watch this short video:

 

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swedish weave

swedish weave

Posted
Posted (edited)
Let me assist you, your doctor, your mother, and readers of Prevention magazine to help better understand some of the terminology in health articles.

 

When you hear about a "study," you would assume it's a carefully constructed experiment on humans to determine the efficacy or hard of a substance. It almost always is not. Most studies are "observational" studies. When you see the terms "cohort" or "case control" it's referring to this kind of research. Observation studies CAN NEVER find causality. They can only find "associations" or "links." So in this example, you discover a "link between diet soda consumption and diabetes or obesity" it shouldn't be too surprising. You would expect to see an association between diet soda and obesity since obese people are trying to lose weight. It would be the same as a study finding a link between "Weight Watchers" and obesity. Do you think Weight Watchers causes obesity?

 

The gold standard of studies are double blind experiments. This involves a control group and an intervention group in a laboratory setting. It's very difficult and expensive to do. Most of these studies are with mice/rats, which raise concerns over how well they translate to humans.

 

If you want a more detail explanation on how articles about nutrition get mangled by the press (especially Prevention magazine), watch this short video:

 

 

If something is repeated enough times, does that make it the truth ???

 

The results of many studies are determined by who is paying for them and who has the most to gain or lose by the results.

Edited by swedish weave
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KSU Fan69

KSU Fan69

Posted
Posted
I won't do that. Too many on this board waiting to pounce on details to start arguments.

 

Dude all you do is start arguments so save that weak stuff. I'm calling BS on this until proven otherwise because I have seen nobody else with claims like you are spewing. You always have something to say on posts but when challenged you pull this crap.

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swedish weave

swedish weave

Posted
Posted (edited)
Dude all you do is start arguments so save that weak stuff. I'm calling BS on this until proven otherwise because I have seen nobody else with claims like you are spewing. You always have something to say on posts but when challenged you pull this crap.

 

When you decide to stop making personal insulting remarks, maybe you can participate in an intelligent discussion. I have no reason to divulge my personal business with anyone on these boards, but I have let others know that exceptions are possible if approached in the proper manner.

 

I will try to come up with something nice to say about you, but it will take a while.

Edited by swedish weave
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floridalover5623

floridalover5623

Posted
Posted
Do you have any other bits of wisdom to contribute ??

 

Maybe the link below can help you come up with some...

 

Diet Coke Exposed: What Happens One Hour After Drinking Diet ...

therenegadepharmacist.com/diet-coke-exposed-happens-one-hour-drinking- diet-coke-coke-zero-similar-diet-soda/‎Cached

SimilarAug 6, 2015 ... Data from a number of studies, including the Nurses' Health Study and the Health Professionals Follow-up Study also reported greater risk of type 2 diabetes, high blood pressure, heart disease and metabolic syndrome, which is related to diabetes and cardiovascular problems, for consumers of artificially sweetened ...

 

Oh boy- I'm in trouble now with all the diet stuff I drink.

Maybe I'll switch off to rum next cruise with regular coke.

Providing I can smuggle it in my RumRunners. ;)

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hftmrock

hftmrock

Posted
Posted (edited)
but I have let others know that exceptions are possible if approached in the proper manner.

 

.

 

an anonymous poster is trying to let others know about some exception that he/she wont go into detail with with the 'approached proper manner' that he/or she wont go into detail with.

 

so what are you actually saying?

 

I (wont share identity) am telling people that I have gotten an exception (wont provide details)on a NCL Cruise rule (wont share what rule) if approached in the proper manner (wont share what manner that is)

 

Is this really helping someone?

Edited by hftmrock
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luddite

luddite

Posted
Posted
Don't know if it is age or not but we haven't consumed diet sodas for at least 15 years. We just don't like them anymore. Also, my doctor says they are not good for our health, especially drinking several in a day.

 

One thing my doctor says that moderate drinking of red wine is good for my health. That's great.

 

It sounds like you figured out that they are worse for you than heroin.

Good for you for quitting them.

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ducklite

ducklite

Posted
Posted
Like swimming, or sitting in a hot tub, walking the rope course, and watching a performance in a theater? There are lots of things that are enjoyable, but have no demonstrable health benefits on paper. If you wish to live a joyless life, that's your prerogative. Please realize your opinion is not share by many others.

 

 

 

Swimming is a fantastic no-impact form of exercise. Walking a ropes course helps with balance--very important as we age. Theatrical performances can stimulate the brain, whichever the scientific community all agrees is crucial to long term memory health. Hot tubs, well, they are just gross, I don't use them. I give you that one for sure. But the others? Try again.

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swedish weave

swedish weave

Posted
Posted
an anonymous poster is trying to let others know about some exception that he/she wont go into detail with with the 'approached proper manner' that he/or she wont go into detail with.

 

so what are you actually saying?

 

I (wont share identity) am telling people that I have gotten an exception (wont provide details)on a NCL Cruise rule (wont share what rule) if approached in the proper manner (wont share what manner that is)

 

Is this really helping someone?

 

Attempting to pry personal information out of me will not work. If you are seriously wanting to get an exception for yourself, contact NCL with the details, and they may allow it. My reasons are personal and yours may be totally different.

 

If you just want to argue, that wont work either.

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gopsu1

gopsu1

Posted
Posted

I had to give up soda, and just like you I need caffeine. I discovered MIO energy. Water flavoring with caffeine. Best part - I can make it stronger when I need more, or just add a little when I need a quick pick me up. Best part no asperteitn in it.

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KSU Fan69

KSU Fan69

Posted
Posted (edited)
My earlier comment when I said why I would not furnish details has proven to be very accurate.

 

If any of you are serious, contact NCL as I did, and they may honor your request.

 

Well I never pushed on that so keep my name out of your mouth please. You do you but nobody needs your two cents if you're not going to be helpful with your vague posts. Everyone else that has posted on this has stated that NCL has not budged on the rule and you are the only one claiming to have gotten them to make an exception so lets do the math bud. And nice backtrack with the second post.

Edited by KSU Fan69
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