NCL's 18% 'suggested' gratuity charge

[gary222]

Can anybody clarify details concerning the 18% service charge?

 

According to NCLs documentation this is a 'suggested' gratuity:

What about tipping?

 

"What about tipping?

 

You will have either pre-paid the service charge on your holiday invoice or it will be charged to your on-board account. In addition, a suggested gratuity of 18% on drink bills, dining options, which are not inlcuded in the cruise fare and on spa and salon bills will be added automatically and charged to your on-board account.

 

So its completely optional and therefore discretionary even though its added automatically to your bill?

 

So in theory, the same as in UK restaurants i.e. you can request - at an establishment that decides to include an optional 10-15% gratuity (and there has been plenty of controversy surrounding this - resulting in many restaurants now NOT including this on your final bill) - for it to be taken off when you receive the bill, or before you receive the bill and then you decide how much tip you want to give either by leaving cash (so that you know it all goes to the particular waiter or server and none of it being skimmed by the company or being used to supplement low wages) or on credit card.

 

So on NCL it works in the same way?

 

Why would you for example pay a 18% gratuity to a barmen who just serves you a beer? You don't do it in Europe, you don't do it in most of the world then why would you do it on a ship?

Edited August 17, 2016 by gary222
added information

[sparks1093]

Short answer is because it's the culture on the ship. I do not know if the gratuities may actually be removed from the bar slip, maybe someone that has successfully removed them will chime in on the process.

[gary222]

"i do not know if the gratuities may be actually removed from a bar slip" Do you mean that if you haven't informed the bar staff BEFORE they've issued you the payment slip for the drink you've ordered then it may be impossible for the the optional 18% gratuity charge to be removed so its important to remember to tell them to remove it before being rung up on the till?

 

It might be usual to in the US (or Canada) for example to give a tip to a bar tender for serving you a beer, in Europe its highly unusual.

[deliver42]

I can only compare to Royal and Carnival, but both cruise lines add 18% to any bar bill, so this is nothing unusual.

[gary222]

ok, it may not be anything unusual, but that 18% on Royal and Carnival is mandatory or suggested and therefore discretionary?

[cookmg40]

Yes, a gratuity added to every bar bill is standard practice in the cruise industry. I've cruised on 5 different cruise lines and all have the same procedure. I've read where cruise lines would increase drink prices in the UK to include the service charge in the price of the drink. So if a $10 drink is priced at $12 without a separate service charge, are you okay to pay that? But not okay to pay $10 plus $1.80 in s/c?

 

 

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[sparks1093]

"i do not know if the gratuities may be actually removed from a bar slip" Do you mean that if you haven't informed the bar staff BEFORE they've issued you the payment slip for the drink you've ordered then it may be impossible for the the optional 18% gratuity charge to be removed so its important to remember to tell them to remove it before being rung up on the till?

 

It might be usual to in the US (or Canada) for example to give a tip to a bar tender for serving you a beer, in Europe its highly unusual.

 

I don't know if informing them before hand would work. I didn't say it's usual in the US, I said it's usual on the ship (the ship represents its own culture, just like visiting another country).

[nomad098]

As sparks1093 said short answer is it is not generally alterable.

 

I suppose if the service was terrible in the specialty restaurants you could go and speak to the manager about having it removed and of course leave something extra if service was excellent.

 

As far as bar tips not heard of anyone removing them.

 

If you have the Ultimate Beverage Package (UBP) or the Specialty Dining Package (SDP) tips are already included and nothing else is needed unless you think the service is exceptional and you wish to leave extra.

 

In the UK tips are covered by tax laws and if NCL made you pay tips in advance but did not allow you to alter them then NCL would be liable for tax on the tips.

 

On board ship NCL can pretty much do as they want the same goes for the other cruise lines.

[KeithJenner]

It might be usual to in the US (or Canada) for example to give a tip to a bar tender for serving you a beer, in Europe its highly unusual.

 

 

 

As NCL is a US line, it would seem usual to tip similarly to the US customs.

[gary222]

As sparks1093 said short answer is it is not generally alterable.

.

 

But if its not alterable why would NCL state that its a 'suggested' gratuity rather than mandatory?

 

Many people especially from the UK don't mind to pay a tip but prefer to know that it all goes to the waiter or person responsible for serving them, which is why they might prefer to have the charge removed and pay the gratuity in cash.

[KeithJenner]

I would just say that, regardless of the rights or wrongs, I would strongly suggest just going with the way things are done onboard.

 

Trying to get the 18% removed every time you get a drink would just make every purchase hard work. Having an enjoyable holiday would be a bigger priority for me.

 

It's not clear, by the way, whether you have the beverage package. I assume not, but in case you do then it's less relevant anyway as the 18% isn't charged on drinks in that case. If you have the dining package then nothing is charged on the meals.

 

If either of those packages are purchased the 18% is charged on the purchase price (and I'd be surprised if you can do anything about that). If got as a promo then there is no gratuity to pay at all in the UK.

[gary222]

As NCL is a US line, it would seem usual to tip similarly to the US customs.

 

So it's is a case of 'must' conform or 'should'?

 

Would it be considered 'bad form' or breaking unwritten ships rules by deciding not to conform to these customs by deciding to request the 18% taken off and pay in cash what you feel is right?

 

Would the server or waiter not be be more appreciative of the fact you're paying in cash and it all goes to them or would it not make any difference as it must be pooled and failure to do so would be a sackable offence?

Edited August 17, 2016 by gary222

[gary222]

I would just say that, regardless of the rights or wrongs, I would strongly suggest just going with the way things are done onboard.

 

Trying to get the 18% removed every time you get a drink would just make every purchase hard work. Having an enjoyable holiday would be a bigger priority for me.

 

It's not clear, by the way, whether you have the beverage package. I assume not, but in case you do then it's less relevant anyway as the 18% isn't charged on drinks in that case. If you have the dining package then nothing is charged on the meals.

 

If either of those packages are purchased the 18% is charged on the purchase price (and I'd be surprised if you can do anything about that). If got as a promo then there is no gratuity to pay at all in the UK.

 

But the 18% charge is only a 'suggestion', which is very different than 'you must' , after all NCL plays heavily on its 'Free' slogan i.e feel free to do what you want, how you want etc...

 

Why would removing the 18% be necessarily be hard work. Granted, because its automatically added trying to then request it to be removed would inevitably involve some work, but surely the idea is to request at the time of order before the bill is produced.

 

In regards to the beverage package, you're still paying an 18% charge upfront in advance. Would the 18% on the beverage package (which brings the total per day for Ultimate Package to an astonishing $100 per day) also be optional and a mere 'suggestion'?

Edited August 17, 2016 by gary222

[ryarger]

Would it be considered 'bad form'

 

Yes, it would.

 

Would the server or waiter not be be more appreciative of the fact you're paying in cash and it all goes to them...

 

 

No, they would not. They would be very appreciative of any cash tip you deign to give them on top of the service charge, but they would not at all be appreciative of going through the hoops required to adjust the service charge, slowing down their service to their other customers and likely costing them far more than you'd be tipping.

 

 

 

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[gary222]

Yes, it would.

 

 

 

 

No, they would not. They would be very appreciative of any cash tip you deign to give them on top of the service charge, but they would not at all be appreciative of going through the hoops required to adjust the service charge, slowing down their service to their other customers and likely costing them far more than you'd be tipping.

 

 

 

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Sure I understand that it would be hassle to adjust the service charge AFTER the charge has been added (which is why you should remember to request it before - just as you would in the UK), but why would it involve so much work before the bill is produced? I don't know, maybe you know that it actually would, do you?

 

But why on top of an 18% service charge which is very generous for service that you expect to be good, would you feel its necessary to leave an additional tip?

 

Do they not actually get that 18% service charge, is this why they are always asking - via the pay slip in a big space for a tip?

 

Would it be normal for NCL to be skimming from the 18% - for various admin charges, complex tax arrangements etc? - ( as was the case with companies in the UK )

Edited August 17, 2016 by gary222

[KeithJenner]

Why would removing the 18% be necessarily be hard work. Granted, because its automatically added trying to then request it to be removed would inevitably involve some work, but surely the idea is to request at the time of order before the bill is produced.

 

 

 

 

It would be hard work in the same way that going to a bar in the US and not tipping would be hard work.

 

Honestly, I'm not making any comment on the rights or wrongs, but the staff have joined NCL based on this pay structure. You booked it based on these suggestions. I literally can't understand why anyone would want to make their holiday harder by trying to negotiate this every time you get a drink.

 

You aren't getting the answers as to how easy (if even possible) it is to get the 18% removed because, even on this forum where people can discuss tipping for days, I'm not aware of anyone even trying it.

 

If every time you get a drink you have to try to explain to the staff what you are trying to do I really think it will have quite an impact on the enjoyment of your holiday.

[ryarger]

I don't know, maybe you know that it actually would, do you?

 

I do know and it would. I work for a company that makes POS systems for cruise ships. There is no single button "leave off the service charge" button. It must be removed afterwards and even then it requires manager intervention.

 

But why on top of an 18% service charge which is very generous for service that you expect to be good, would you feel its necessary to leave an additional tip?

 

Because throwing in an extra buck a drink builds significant good will with the staff, resulting in service that elevates from "everything you'd expect" to "above and beyond". Because it's good karma. Because it's appreciated and I can afford it.

 

Do they not actually get that 18% service charge, is this why they are always asking - via the pay slip in a big space for a tip?

 

 

The server didn't put that space on your receipt, nor did they ask for it to be put there. If the server asked you for a tip, they are being unprofessional.

 

They do get their cut of the service charge, but always appreciate any extra the pax can throw their way.

 

 

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[cruizinwithkids]

 

Trying to get the 18% removed every time you get a drink would just make every purchase hard work. Having an enjoyable holiday would be a bigger priority for me.

 

I could not agree more with this.

 

My GUESS is that the server can't remove the charge at all. The computer is probably not programmed for a simple override. A bar manager or someone like that could probably do it.

 

If I were the bartender and I saw someone come to the bar who's transaction was going to take a very long time, I'm pretty sure he or she would be the last person I serve.

 

And to the OP, if you are going into a cruise knowing that each transaction is going to be a battle, is this the right vacation (or maybe just cruise line) for you?

 

BTW, my first cruise was in 1988 and there was a tip added to each of those drinks. $1.50 for the beer and .28 tip (15%) DH had many, many, many such transactions. :D

[deladypilot]

I think if you requested the 18% be removed with every transaction that you will find yourself with really bad service. It causes them extra work as the computer/cash register is doing the automatic thing. Eventually the bar staff and waiters are going to ignore you because you are a pain to them. Is that right? No, but they are human and it will most likely happen.

 

We have never asked for any gratuity to be removed and usually add a few bucks in cash if we have several drinks in one place and have had good service.

[gary222]

I do know and it would. I work for a company that makes POS systems for cruise ships. There is no single button "leave off the service charge" button. It must be removed afterwards and even then it requires manager intervention.

 

 

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Ok good to know that there is no single button to leave of the service charge, and it can only be removed afterwards. Im really not familiar with this type of charging system - which is why I'm asking the question to those that know more but do know that the tipping procedures, gratuities service charges, hidden charges etc on Cruise Ships is hotly debated, contested and controversial.

I know its not the same as for example Service charges, gratuities in the UK - I'm not sure if you're aware but the British experienced not so long ago lots scandals and controversies with how companies would skim the gratuities paid to their staff in various complex schemes and tax avoidance procedures and started to refuse to pay 'discretionary' fixed service charges automatically charges to their bills.

 

Its completely normal to request that this fixed optional 'suggested' service be removed from the bill, or better the request is made BEFORE the bill is produced.

 

The situation became so controversial that some companies (some embroiled in illegal or at the very least unethical practices) were forced to abandon their procedure of automatically adding on the optional service charge to the bill or at least very clearly stated on the menu that this service charge is entirely optional and you should feel comfortable at asking for it be removed, especially for those that prefer to give directly to their waiter or server.

 

The waiters preferred to be given cash and there was no hassle at all at not adding on or removing the service charge.

 

So partly out of principle - to ensure that what you give does not get skimmed by the company and also not liking to be told they they must give 12.5% or whatever, many British people have no problem at all in requesting the charge to be removed. They also have the idea that if any tips should not be shared with anybody other than the server - with the understanding the chef or person doing the washing up etc should be paid a decent wage and so does not or should not need a share of the gratuity (obviously on Cruise Ships its different because the Daily Service Charge is shared amongst the 'backroom' employees.)

[gary222]

I think if you requested the 18% be removed with every transaction that you will find yourself with really bad service. It causes them extra work as the computer/cash register is doing the automatic thing. Eventually the bar staff and waiters are going to ignore you because you are a pain to them. Is that right? No, but they are human and it will most likely happen.

 

We have never asked for any gratuity to be removed and usually add a few bucks in cash if we have several drinks in one place and have had good service.

 

So if you decided to request the non-inclusion of the 18% suggested gratuity charge and instead leave a cash tip, you'd get really bad service would you?

 

"..usually add a few bucks in cash if we have serval drinks in one place and have had good service"

 

But good service is to be expected isn't it - it should be thought of something extra you have to pay for? I pay for a Cruise I should get good service. Obviously something extra - like the waiter making sure your favourite table or bar stool is always free for your usual 8.00pm cocktail deserves something extra or coming to you out of turn at busy bar - sure thats an extra tip.

 

Why would having several drinks in one place necessitate an extra tip on top of the 18% tip?

[deladypilot]

So if you decided to request the non-inclusion of the 18% suggested gratuity charge and instead leave a cash tip, you'd get really bad service would you?

 

"..usually add a few bucks in cash if we have serval drinks in one place and have had good service"

 

But good service is to be expected isn't it - it should be thought of something extra you have to pay for? I pay for a Cruise I should get good service. Obviously something extra - like the waiter making sure your favourite table or bar stool is always free for your usual 8.00pm cocktail deserves something extra or coming to you out of turn at busy bar - sure thats an extra tip.

 

Why would having several drinks in one place necessitate an extra tip on top of the 18% tip?

 

I did not say it was right just that it would probably happen. Human nature is that if someone is causing you extra work you tend to not want to be attentive but instead to avoid. Again that does not make it right I just know human nature.

 

As for why extra tip on top of the 18% - It is not necessary or required but we normally tip 20% in any land based restaurant or bar so adding a few extra dollars here or there is no big deal

[gary222]

I did not say it was right just that it would probably happen. Human nature is that if someone is causing you extra work you tend to not want to be attentive but instead to avoid. Again that does not make it right I just know human nature.

 

As for why extra tip on top of the 18% - It is not necessary or required but we normally tip 20% in any land based restaurant or bar so adding a few extra dollars here or there is no big deal

 

So are you saying that the service to somebody could get progressively worse if deciding to request that the suggested gratuity be removed and instead to pay by cash, directly to the server? Surely if that happens then the customer isn't even going to leave a cash tip?

 

When you say you'd normally leave a 20% tip for any land based restaurant - this applies anywhere? Lets say for example you're somewhere in Rome, at a typical (Italians in general hardly leave tips anywhere and if they do its often no more than 5%- as its generally covered in a 'coperta' which ranges from 2euro to 4 euro max - which covers the table cloth, bread, etc etc) tourist site where food items aren't really of such a high quality (because tourists aren't going to notice as much as locals) and its over-priced (certainly in regards to what locals would pay), service is good (as should be expected), you'd still leave a 20% tip?

Edited August 17, 2016 by gary222

[hftmrock]

So are you saying that the service to somebody could get progressively worse if deciding to request that the suggested gratuity be removed and instead to pay by cash, directly to the server? Surely if that happens then the customer isn't even going to leave a cash tip?

 

 

the bartender would prefer you to go somewhere else if you asked to remove it consistently.

 

he has to call for his manager, wait a few minutes or longer, get the transaction voided and redone and then finish the transaction. this could take 15+ minutes every time. all for a cash tip instead of the 'pool tip'. Im sure most bartenders would dread working with someone that kept asking. Even worse if if you stay at the bar. order a drink... call a manager, get it changed and give you new bill... then you order another drink :eek: .

 

yes they would dread serving someone like this and probably would avoid that person as much as possible.

 

Just my opinion

[LrgPizza]

the bartender would prefer you to go somewhere else if you asked to remove it consistently.

 

he has to call for his manager, wait a few minutes or longer, get the transaction voided and redone and then finish the transaction. this could take 15+ minutes every time. all for a cash tip instead of the 'pool tip'. Im sure most bartenders would dread working with someone that kept asking. Even worse if if you stay at the bar. order a drink... call a manager, get it changed and give you new bill... then you order another drink :eek: .

 

yes they would dread serving someone like this and probably would avoid that person as much as possible.

 

Just my opinion

Everything you are saying is exactly what would happen. In addition, the tip remover would stand there while they took care of the other 10 customers first before they ever called for the manager. That would be the absolute lowest priority. They are going to wait on those who are tipping before they take care of someone trying to remove a tip.

 

Never in a billion years would I waste so much time of my vacation doing this, and I've never heard of anyone trying. Most of us would prefer to just cruise and have fun. Auto-gratuities have been added to drink tickets since the beginning of time.

Edited August 17, 2016 by LrgPizza