NCL's 18% 'suggested' gratuity charge

[sparks1093]

since the beginning of time.

 

And back then it really was set in stone:cool:.

[gary222]

Everything you are saying is exactly what would happen. In addition, the tip remover would stand there while they took care of the other 10 customers first before they ever called for the manager. That would be the absolute lowest priority. They are going to wait on those who are tipping before they take care of someone trying to remove a tip.

 

Never in a billion years would I waste so much time of my vacation doing this, and I've never heard of anyone trying. Most of us would prefer to just cruise and have fun. Auto-gratuities have been added to drink tickets since the beginning of time.

 

But why would they need to remove it if it was not put on in the first place because the customer had requested it not to be at the moment of order and prefer to tip in cash instead?

 

if its a suggested tip, why should the customer feel obliged to to pay the amount suggested or feel obliged to tip through the automatic system because to not do so causes a time consuming system. As mentioned previously, its fairly usual practice in the UK to ask for an automatically added optional and discretionary gratuity to be removed either before the bill is produced (preferably or after) and for sure you're not going to get worse service because you ask for it either not to be added or for it to be removed.

 

It takes all of a couple of seconds to request that it be removed - and you don't need to explain why you want it to be removed. Staff or employees have no difficulty in understanding the process and to remove it or not add it takes no time at all. Why should it be more difficult on a cruise ship?

[hawkeyetlse]

When you say you'd normally leave a 20% tip for any land based restaurant - this applies anywhere? Lets say for example you're somewhere in Rome […] you'd still leave a 20% tip?

I see where you're going with this, and yes, many Americans would continue to tip 20-25% in Rome. And yes, they look stupid, because the fact is, anyone who fails so spectacularly to adapt to the local customs looks stupid.

[LrgPizza]

It takes all of a couple of seconds to request that it be removed - and you don't need to explain why you want it to be removed. Staff or employees have no difficulty in understanding the process and to remove it or not add it takes no time at all. Why should it be more difficult on a cruise ship?

 

That question has already been asked and answered.

 

And with that, folks, I believe we're dealing with a troll.

 

Congratulations. You had a lot of us going. Have a great day!

[deladypilot]

That question has already been asked and answered.

 

And with that, folks, I believe we're dealing with a troll.

 

Congratulations. You had a lot of us going. Have a great day!

 

I agree - just a bored child looking for something to do. I too am done

[gary222]

the bartender would prefer you to go somewhere else if you asked to remove it consistently.

 

he has to call for his manager, wait a few minutes or longer, get the transaction voided and redone and then finish the transaction. this could take 15+ minutes every time. all for a cash tip instead of the 'pool tip'. Im sure most bartenders would dread working with someone that kept asking. Even worse if if you stay at the bar. order a drink... call a manager, get it changed and give you new bill... then you order another drink :eek: .

 

yes they would dread serving someone like this and probably would avoid that person as much as possible.

 

Just my opinion

 

So its confirmed then , the bartender MUST call a manager to get it removed? But why should that become a problem for the customer - the customer has paid for cruise, is paying a daily service charge wants to pay a cash tip. Surely if that happens or the bartender gives always the worse service to the trouble-maker' customer, then the customer isn't even going to leave a cash tip, is going to make a complaint to the manager and possibly the ship and then decide he's also not going to pay the daily service charge.

 

Or could the ship ask the the passenger to leave the ship and subsequently be'black-balled' for not 'playing by the 'unwritten rules'?

 

Could it really get that nasty?

[jennmaybe]

OP--I get what you're saying. It's all in the wording from NCL where they state it is "suggested", but they never say "mandatory". If it's not mandatory, then you should have the option to remove it. Have you called NCL to see if it's an option to not have it added to your bill prior to the staff printing the receipt?

 

Tips are a pretty sensitive subject here on CC and many people have their own strong opinions about it. We do pay the 18%, but we never and have never felt the need to tip extra on top of the 18%. We have never been treated any differently (out of 16 cruises) nor have we ever felt like we received less than excellent service from anyone on any cruise line at any bar or restaurant. The crew members do not expect extra tips, although I'm sure they love it when they get them. However, we do not feel the need to throw down an extra dollar, two or whatever just because someone popped off the top of a beer bottle for us.

 

Try calling NCL to see if you can get an answer and let us know.

[gary222]

I see where you're going with this, and yes, many Americans would continue to tip 20-25% in Rome. And yes, they look stupid, because the fact is, anyone who fails so spectacularly to adapt to the local customs looks stupid.

 

 

But do they generally tip at those figures even though they know this is well above what should be normal and what locals would pay or because this is what is normal for them?

[hftmrock]

So its confirmed then , the bartender MUST call a manager to get it removed? But why should that become a problem for the customer - the customer has paid for cruise, is paying a daily service charge wants to pay a cash tip. Surely if that happens or the bartender gives always the worse service to the trouble-maker' customer, then the customer isn't even going to leave a cash tip, is going to make a complaint to the manager and possibly the ship and then decide he's also not going to pay the daily service charge.

 

Or could the ship ask the the passenger to leave the ship and subsequently be'black-balled' for not 'playing by the 'unwritten rules'?

 

Could it really get that nasty?

 

its not a problem for the customer if he wants to wait 15 to 20+ minutes every transaction

 

it wont get nasty. If the customer complains, they will apologize and at most probably send them some strawberries to the room... but the bartenders wont change because they don't want to wait 15 to 20 minutes for each transaction so they customer will still have the problem. More than likely behind closed doors management will side with the bartender because they dont want the bartender tied up with one person for 20+ minutes. thats less sales for the cruise ship.

 

Im curious, you say you will do this to make sure the bartender gets the cash tip which you think they will prefer. if it looks like they wont prefer that, why do it? if its to save money (give 15% or 10% instead of 18%), then does it make sense to spend 15 to 20 minutes waiting every time to save what probably is less that .25 each time?

 

just seems pointless to me. Why go through this even if you do have the option and the right?

[hftmrock]

But do they generally tip at those figures even though they know this is well above what should be normal and what locals would pay or because this is what is normal for them?

 

you need to be consistent...

 

you are questioning what people would do in Rome even though its not the norm

 

and then you are saying you want to do something that is not the norm on a cruise ship.

[gary222]

OP--I get what you're saying. It's all in the wording from NCL where they state it is "suggested", but they never say "mandatory". If it's not mandatory, then you should have the option to remove it. Have you called NCL to see if it's an option to not have it added to your bill prior to the staff printing the receipt?

 

Tips are a pretty sensitive subject here on CC and many people have their own strong opinions about it. We do pay the 18%, but we never and have never felt the need to tip extra on top of the 18%. We have never been treated any differently (out of 16 cruises) nor have we ever felt like we received less than excellent service from anyone on any cruise line at any bar or restaurant. The crew members do not expect extra tips, although I'm sure they love it when they get them. However, we do not feel the need to throw down an extra dollar, two or whatever just because someone popped off the top of a beer bottle for us.

 

Try calling NCL to see if you can get an answer and let us know.

 

YEs, I was thinking of calling NCL as to understand the 'ins and outs' of this suggested 18% gratuity and but thought the it might be easier to find somebody on this forum who has more knowledge about it.

 

When you say the crew members don't expect extra tips - i assume you're excluding the chamber room staff etc?

 

In regards to bar tenders or waiters etc - if they don't expect tips why on every slip you sign for is there a big section with labelled TIPS - in fact I've never seen such a large space on a receipt for the inclusion of 'EXTRA TIPS' - it just kind of left a bad taste - I mean i got the feeling that they kind of know that you're not going to (of course they don't have any choice whether or not that box is on the slip) leave a tip but would really appreciate it if you did - even though they didn't do anything extra special in their service for you. In fact they seemed kind of fed up and a little bit sad - and yes - i got the impression they were working so hard and they only get to see a small fraction of that 18%. If I went to a restaurant where there was an 18% included service charge (which is impossible in the UK - 15% is the max and thats very very rare), for sure the service is super super good, and all the staff appear energised and happy.

I didn't feel it on NCL.

The staff seemed stressed, over-worked, sad (and insincere in their smiles or welcomes) and poorly paid.

[NLH Arizona]

"i do not know if the gratuities may be actually removed from a bar slip" Do you mean that if you haven't informed the bar staff BEFORE they've issued you the payment slip for the drink you've ordered then it may be impossible for the the optional 18% gratuity charge to be removed so its important to remember to tell them to remove it before being rung up on the till?

 

It might be usual to in the US (or Canada) for example to give a tip to a bar tender for serving you a beer, in Europe its highly unusual.

If you don't want to pay it, on your next NCL cruise ask that they remove it.

[hawkeyetlse]

But do they generally tip at those figures even though they know this is well above what should be normal and what locals would pay or because this is what is normal for them?

Some of them don't know, but some simply cannot get their heads around it and feel uncomfortable leaving so little. Just as many Europeans feel uncomfortable leaving 20-25% when they visit the US, but that's no justification for not doing it.

 

I agree that they shouldn't use terms like "suggested" or "recommended" or whatever for a charge that is for all practical purposes mandatory. Nobody in this thread really knows what will happen if you fight this, and no one seems particularly supportive of your desire to fight this, but if it's important to you, go for it. I am actually interested in what happens, but it's impossible to have a civil conversation about it here on this forum, and this thread will surely be deleted before anything useful comes out of it.

[purpletequila]

That additional 18% is only on people who don't already have the drinks or dining package right?

[sparks1093]

YEs, I was thinking of calling NCL as to understand the 'ins and outs' of this suggested 18% gratuity and but thought the it might be easier to find somebody on this forum who has more knowledge about it.

 

When you say the crew members don't expect extra tips - i assume you're excluding the chamber room staff etc?

 

In regards to bar tenders or waiters etc - if they don't expect tips why on every slip you sign for is there a big section with labelled TIPS - in fact I've never seen such a large space on a receipt for the inclusion of 'EXTRA TIPS' - it just kind of left a bad taste - I mean i got the feeling that they kind of know that you're not going to (of course they don't have any choice whether or not that box is on the slip) leave a tip but would really appreciate it if you did - even though they didn't do anything extra special in their service for you. In fact they seemed kind of fed up and a little bit sad - and yes - i got the impression they were working so hard and they only get to see a small fraction of that 18%. If I went to a restaurant where there was an 18% included service charge (which is impossible in the UK - 15% is the max and thats very very rare), for sure the service is super super good, and all the staff appear energised and happy.

I didn't feel it on NCL.

The staff seemed stressed, over-worked, sad (and insincere in their smiles or welcomes) and poorly paid.

 

The extra tip line is on there because the register is programmed to print it that way and some customers find it easier to provide an extra tip that way rather than giving cash (I don't carry cash on board at all). And just to clarify the bar staff does not receive any portion of the service charges.

[sparks1093]

That additional 18% is only on people who don't already have the drinks or dining package right?

 

If you have a package you've paid it already (unless you are one of the lucky ones that got in before they added it).

[mafig]

Have you been on a cruise before?

 

If so, what did you do then?

[gary222]

you need to be consistent...

 

you are questioning what people would do in Rome even though its not the norm

 

and then you are saying you want to do something that is not the norm on a cruise ship.

 

I think my point there is that because some people are saying that its an American Cruise Line you conform to the American tipping culture and then Deladypilot is saying a tip of 20-25% is normal irrespective of which country he is? So he's following American tipping culture because he's American not because of the culture or the place he's in - and actually I was quite curious as to know to know why somebody would decide to pay more than is actually necessary, normal or expected.

 

The other point is I just wanted to find out how easy or practical it is to remove or not add the 18% suggested gratuity which is not the same as not tipping and whether to pay 18% is too little or too much and thats another issue.

[BrandoMan13]

While I won't defend the american system of tipping, because its a neat trick restaurants have pulled forcing the customer to pay their employees.

 

As someone who has been a waiter, I can safely say that any place including NCL that includes an automatic gratuity is doing so because some people tip insultingly small amounts or nothing at all.

 

Basically, many people, when left to their own devices won't tip or will tip very little.

 

Again, not a defense of the system, because my feeling is that restaurants, cruiselines, etc. should pay their employees more and not have them depend on the decency of strangers to be able to pay their bills.

 

I have the UBP and I'll be tipping additional if I get great service or find a particular bar or bartender that I like. I also have the SDP and will tip a few bucks at dinner as long as the service isnt terrible.

[graphicguy]

gary222....I think there's been plenty of experiences that's been shared here. It comes down to semantics. Gratuity, fee, service charge....the charge is the same regardless of what it's called.

 

My suggestion? Go on your cruise. Ask to have the 18% removed on each drink. And, have the proverbial conversation with a manager each time (after a lengthy wait), asking if there was something wrong with your service so they can correct it. All the while, the server/bartender is chastised by management for not providing good service which prompted you to request the charge being removed. Then supposedly giving them cash, which won't be worth the hassle they had to go through to get the cash.

 

Come back and let us know how that worked out. Personally, I'd love to hear how the experience would be by doing that.

[mafig]

gary222....I think there's been plenty of experiences that's been shared here. It comes down to semantics. Gratuity, fee, service charge....the charge is the same regardless of what it's called.

 

My suggestion? Go on your cruise. Ask to have the 18% removed on each drink. And, have the proverbial conversation with a manager each time (after a lengthy wait), asking if there was something wrong with your service so they can correct it. All the while, the server/bartender is chastised by management for not providing good service which prompted you to request the charge being removed. Then supposedly giving them cash, which won't be worth the hassle they had to go through to get the cash.

 

Come back and let us know how that worked out. Personally, I'd love to hear how the experience would be by doing that.

 

Image all the other customers who'll have to wait while the bartender and manager gets this sorted out. :o

[NLH Arizona]

The staff seemed stressed, over-worked, sad (and insincere in their smiles or welcomes) and poorly paid.

Not sure what ship you were on, but in all my NCL cruises, I've never experienced this. Maybe you were asking too many questions about how to take the tips off your bills and they became bored with you asking it over and over again and you took their boredom as being stressed, over-worked, sad and poorly paid.

[gary222]

I see where you're going with this, and yes, many Americans would continue to tip 20-25% in Rome. And yes, they look stupid, because the fact is, anyone who fails so spectacularly to adapt to the local customs looks stupid.

 

Is deciding to pay a 20-25% tip in Rome when 5% maximum would be normal, analogous with deciding to pay a suggested 18% gratuity by cash rather than the automatic On-Board gratuity tipping system?

 

Surely its just the same as when paying in any establishment for your meal with Credit Card and then the tip in cash?

[gary222]

Not sure what ship you were on, but in all my NCL cruises, I've never experienced this. Maybe you were asking too many questions about how to take the tips off your bills and they became bored with you asking it over and over again and you took their boredom as being stressed, over-worked, sad and poorly paid.

 

Wouldn't dream of asking the staff or employees those kind questions which is why I'm asking those questions here on this forum...

Perhaps you didn't experience the tiredness or apparent unhappiness of various staff - or perhaps you didn't detect the lack of sincerity in their smiles or just general weariness and sense of being over-worked. i would hardly be the first one to comment on the fact that staff seemed weary and over-worked and perhaps would prefer to be somewhere else. Maybe you really thought the employees standing at the entrance to restaurants with the hand sanitisers saying, 'washy washy...' really were enjoying themselves or perhaps they really wanted to know how you were enjoying your holiday or where you'd been? Do you think they really care or are interested in the slightest?

Perhaps you just have difficult in understanding when someone is being sincere?

Edited August 17, 2016 by gary222

[purpletequila]

If you have a package you've paid it already (unless you are one of the lucky ones that got in before they added it).

 

I am not. :) Thanks for responding. Any of my extra tip money has been reallocated to water purchases. ha ha ha