Bringing a case of water onboard

[NLH Arizona]

Find that a bit hard to believe..:rolleyes: NCL wont sell you a cruise these days without forcing you to take a (free - after they upped the price ) UBP :rolleyes:

How have the forced you to take the UBP? Unless you are in a suite (and then you don't pay the 18% gratuity) who gets all the perks, you get to pick your perk/s and no one has said that you have to pick the UBP.

[seashells]

How have the forced you to take the UBP? Unless you are in a suite (and then you don't pay the 18% gratuity) who gets all the perks, you get to pick your perk/s and no one has said that you have to pick the UBP.

 

I do have the UBP but water is not included in the package. Water is a separate fee unless you drink desalinated water which is onboard.

While you have many, many beer and alcohols to chose from, you are limited to purchasing Aquafina if you want bottled water and have to pay extra even having the UBP.

[NLH Arizona]

I do have the UBP but water is not included in the package. Water is a separate fee unless you drink desalinated water which is onboard.

While you have many, many beer and alcohols to chose from, you are limited to purchasing Aquafina if you want bottled water and have to pay extra even having the UBP.

I understand what you are saying, but if purchasing water at a lower price or having it included in the drink package, one would have to choose another cruise line.

 

Even though I also had the UBP on my last cruise (first time for the UBP), I usually have some sodas and I always ask for a pitcher of water and iced tea in my cabin daily, as I don't drink alcohol much.

[tampadee]

Excellent advice !!!!! I started doing that a while back and it has worked out very well for me !!! Thank you very much !!!!

 

Why in the world are you following NCL threads?

[luddite]

I do have the UBP but water is not included in the package. Water is a separate fee unless you drink desalinated water which is onboard.

While you have many, many beer and alcohols to chose from, you are limited to purchasing Aquafina if you want bottled water and have to pay extra even having the UBP.

 

And... why would you purchase a bottle of water? There are myriad venues around the ship that will provide of glass of water with or without ice. Annnddddd.....what possible difference could a BRAND of water have?

Unbelievable that this is remotely an issue.

[luddite]

Why in the world are you following NCL threads?

 

She's working on her post count.

[mugtech]

She's working on her post count.

 

New goal, the 15,000 club:D

[chengkp75]

cruise ships or any ship for that matter have been built with water treatment facilities or ocean-water desalination plant.

Desalination, the removal of salt and other impurities from sea-water so that such water can become safe for human consumption.

However most people would like to bring their own brand of water on board and few people ever do. Not as many as people think read Cruise Critic.

I live 3 miles from a port and see some purchase water at Publix then empty out some and fill them with Gin or Vodka.

I really think this is the reason for NOT allowing the passengers to bring their own water aboard.

 

Let me give you an example from my personal experience onboard the Pride of Aloha, now the Norwegian Sky. The Sky uses about 700-800 metric tons of water every day. She is equipped with two 600 ton/day flash evaporators, and two 200 ton/day reverse osmosis water makers. Now, anyone can add up the capacities and see that the ship can produce 1600 tons/day, so no problem. However, when the ship was in Hawaii, she was at sea (and you can only make water from sea water when outside 12 nm from shore) only 60 of the 168 hours of the 7 day cruise. So, that represents 35.7% of the cruise being at sea, so you would produce, on average, only 35.7% of that 1600 tons/day, or 571 tons/day. So, right there, you've got a minimum of 130 tons/day shortfall. Add in that the flash evaporators are operated off the waste heat from the engines, and you are not always running all the engines, so you cannot operate both evaporators all the time at sea, and the shortfall becomes even greater. That 130+ tons/day shortfall is 900+ tons over the whole cruise. Where does this water come from? The ports. Ever see the fire hoses with the blue painted ends running on the dock when you board the ship? Potable water hoses.

 

Now look at the Sky's current itinerary. While she is in port only 28 of the 72 hours of the cruise (61% at sea), the distances are so short, she is only running two or three engines, so the evaporators cannot produce even rated capacity. I've been told by the Chief Engineer that they don't even bother making water on the Sky anymore, they can get all they want in Miami.

Edited September 1, 2016 by chengkp75

[Seminole1975]

Ships use sea water to make fresh water.

 

I did not know this, it is very interesting. It may also freak some people out even more, especially the ones that are afraid to drink the ships' water!:eek:

 

And then, some folks might get even more nervous about the water since I have read on other posts (the one about children in the Haven) about how ships cannot "dump" dirty (and I mean dirty if someone had an accident in the pool) hot tub or pool water into the sea until they are X distance from shore! Which means they dump dirty water into the sea!

 

Fascinating thread here! Thanks seashells!:D

Edited September 1, 2016 by Seminole1975
change a word

[seashells]

She's working on her post count.

 

If I desired that I would have a whole lot more than you, with 50 cruises, and when I joined CC.

I don't post unless I'm VERY angry about something even if minor, and some of my posts were to help on a unusual cruise.

You however "need" to make the mile club of insults.

Last word on this, because I found some people actually think that massive cruise ships carry city fresh water in tanks when they do NOT.

Tanks holding water on a cruise ship are not always 100% sanitary.

All I wanted was a choice....NCL used to be about choice.

Making you pay for bottled water when you have the UDP is a terrible business decision.

Edited September 1, 2016 by seashells

[chengkp75]

If I desired that I would have a whole lot more than you, with 50 cruises, and when I joined CC.

I don't post unless I'm VERY angry about something even if minor, and some of my posts were to help on a unusual cruise.

You however "need" to make the mile club of insults.

Last word on this, because I found some people actually think that massive cruise ships carry city fresh water in tanks when they do NOT.

Tanks holding water on a cruise ship are not always 100% sanitary.

All I wanted was a choice....NCL used to be about choice.

Making you pay for bottled water when you have the UDP is terrible business decision.

 

Please cite your source for the statement that "tanks holding water on a cruise ship are not always 100% sanitary" as the USPH would definitely like to know this, considering the pages devoted to water sanitation and potable water system (including tanks) design, construction, and operation. I've worked in cruise ship engine rooms making water, loading from shore, maintaining the chlorination equipment, and following USPH requirements for maintenance and disinfection of water tanks. I don't believe there is anything you could teach me about cruise ship water systems.

 

I'd also like to know how much water you think a ship the size of the Sky carries around? I'm sure you have no idea, but I do.

Edited September 1, 2016 by chengkp75

[KSU Fan69]

Please cite your source for the statement that "tanks holding water on a cruise ship are not always 100% sanitary" as the USPH would definitely like to know this, considering the pages devoted to water sanitation and potable water system (including tanks) design, construction, and operation. I've worked in cruise ship engine rooms making water, loading from shore, maintaining the chlorination equipment, and following USPH requirements for maintenance and disinfection of water tanks. I don't believe there is anything you could teach me about cruise ship water systems.

 

I'd also like to know how much water you think a ship the size of the Sky carries around? I'm sure you have no idea, but I do.

 

[/url]

Edited September 1, 2016 by KSU Fan69

[Seminole1975]

Lol!! That's hilarious!

Edited September 1, 2016 by Seminole1975

[seashells]

Please cite your source for the statement that "tanks holding water on a cruise ship are not always 100% sanitary" as the USPH would definitely like to know this, considering the pages devoted to water sanitation and potable water system (including tanks) design, construction, and operation. I've worked in cruise ship engine rooms making water, loading from shore, maintaining the chlorination equipment, and following USPH requirements for maintenance and disinfection of water tanks. I don't believe there is anything you could teach me about cruise ship water systems.

 

I'd also like to know how much water you think a ship the size of the Sky carries around? I'm sure you have no idea, but I do.

 

The bacterium Legionella pneumophila is responsible for most cases of Legionnaires' disease. Outdoors, legionella bacteria survive in soil and water, but rarely cause infections. Indoors, though, legionella bacteria can multiply in all kinds of water systems — hot tubs, air conditioners and mist sprayers in grocery store produce departments.

Although it's possible to contract Legionnaires' disease from home plumbing systems, most outbreaks have occurred in large buildings, and sometimes cruise ships perhaps because complex systems allow the bacteria to grow and spread more easily.

How the infection spreads

Most people become infected when they inhale microscopic water droplets containing legionella bacteria. This might be the spray from a shower, faucet or whirlpool, or water dispersed through the ventilation system in a large building. Outbreaks have been linked to a range of sources, including

 

Hot tubs and whirlpools on cruise ships

 

Cooling towers in air conditioning systems

Decorative fountains

Swimming pools

Physical therapy equipment

Water systems in hotels, hospitals, cruise ships and nursing homes

 

The 'only' thing I have always brought aboard after being infected by the Novo years ago by a mysterious person......Is ....WATER

 

I don't want to drink the water on a cruise ship. ......Period

[fshagan]

I think you mistyped when you say that the ships use sodium chloride to sanitize the water' date=' when they use sodium hypoclorite.

[/quote']

 

You are right ... it is sodium hypochlorite, the same chemical found in liquid bleach you guy at the store and for your swimming pool.

 

I will also dispute the claim that the majority of water in the US is sanitized with chloramines' date=' though I am no expert on the subject when it comes to municipal water supplies. I believe that many municipalities use chloramines as a secondary sanitizer, after using chlorine as a primary one. This is because chlorine is a better sanitizing agent, but chloramine has a better half-life, so it lasts longer in the pipes.

[/quote']

 

I always defer to your superior knowledge of ship's systems, but the CDC quotes this from the EPA:

 

The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) allows drinking water treatment plants to use chloramine and chlorine to disinfect drinking water. Research shows that chloramine and chlorine both have benefits and drawbacks.

 

Chlorine is a highly effective method of disinfection. However, it produces small amounts of chemicals (called "disinfection by-products") while in the pipes if the source water has higher levels of dirt or germs that may react with chlorine 1. These disinfection by-products can cause illness after drinking them for a long time.

 

Chlorine is also used up quickly in water systems. Sometimes there is not enough chlorine left to kill germs in the water by the time it reaches the end of the pipes. Chloramine can last longer in the water pipes and produces fewer disinfection by-products 1. To meet the EPA standards intended to reduce disinfection byproducts, some water utilities are switching to chloramine.

 

Chlorine has some definite side effects with organic materials. You are probably right that the ship's distribution system is cleaner than my miles and miles of municipal water supply lines, but the dangerous disinfection by products are one reason my city has moved to chloramine.

 

The USPH/CDC regulations for cruise ships requires a residual chlorine content of 0.5ppm at the furthest point from the chlorination point. Since the ship's water is constantly being recirculated' date=' rather than sitting idle in underground pipes, the chlorine levels remain very close to the required residual at all points through the ship. So, I dispute your claim that the ships chlorinate to higher levels than municipal water. Even the water produced onboard, or taken from shore is only chlorinated to 4-5ppm, per USPH/CDC.

[/quote']

 

And it still tastes like chlorine. I never said it was "unsafe", just that chlorine is a dangerous chemical that is added to water, sometimes in concentrations far beyond what the standards are, with a yellow appearance out of the tap. Perhaps they need you on board to monitor it better.

 

I know you mistyped about sodium chloride' date=' from your last sentence where you claim it is a "dangerous and deadly" chemical. Bad for your blood pressure? Sure. Deadly, not so much.

[/quote']

 

Sodium hypochlorite is a dangerous and deadly chemical that, when spilled, requires a hazmat team here in California. It is highly diluted in drinking water and does not pose a health hazard, but it remains a horrible chemical from an environmental standpoint. I argue that it is more dangerous to transport a gallon of 10% sodium hypochlorite than it is to transport a case of bottled water.

 

And while I salute your state's recycling laws' date=' as ours in Maine require them to be, 8 out of 10 of the 42.6 billion single serving bottles used annually in the US end up in landfills. Add to that the 17 million barrels of oil required to power the bottled water industry (and that is a 10 year old figure), and I for one cannot justify bottled water.[/quote']

 

But you have not compared the environmental cost of sodium hypochlorite, have you? Everything has a cost, and I minimize my impact as much as I can (and more than my strident "green" friends driving around in their SUVs and using more than the $50 of electricity I use per month).

[chengkp75]

The bacterium Legionella pneumophila is responsible for most cases of Legionnaires' disease. Outdoors, legionella bacteria survive in soil and water, but rarely cause infections. Indoors, though, legionella bacteria can multiply in all kinds of water systems — hot tubs, air conditioners and mist sprayers in grocery store produce departments.

Although it's possible to contract Legionnaires' disease from home plumbing systems, most outbreaks have occurred in large buildings, and sometimes cruise ships perhaps because complex systems allow the bacteria to grow and spread more easily.

How the infection spreads

Most people become infected when they inhale microscopic water droplets containing legionella bacteria. This might be the spray from a shower, faucet or whirlpool, or water dispersed through the ventilation system in a large building. Outbreaks have been linked to a range of sources, including

 

Hot tubs and whirlpools on cruise ships

 

Cooling towers in air conditioning systems

Decorative fountains

Swimming pools

Physical therapy equipment

Water systems in hotels, hospitals, cruise ships and nursing homes

 

The 'only' thing I have always brought aboard after being infected by the Novo years ago by a mysterious person......Is ....WATER

 

I don't want to drink the water on a cruise ship. ......Period

 

First off, most of your items above are not drinking water applications, and though the water supply to them may be from the ship's water system, there are backflow preventers at each location to prevent contamination of the drinking water system from these non-potable users.

 

I don't believe I've ever heard of a case of legionella from a faucet, since the faucet does not provide a small enough droplet size to be inhalable, nor does it provide a wet space for bacteria growth. Now, shower heads are a different thing altogether, and the shower heads on cruise ships must be taken off every 6 months and sanitized in bleach to mitigate legionella growth. When was the last time you sanitized your shower head? Additionally, every shower on a cruise ship has a backflow preventer to keep any potentially contaminated water from flowing back into the water system. Does your shower have this?

 

Hot tubs and whirlpools are chlorinated to higher levels than most pools and hot tubs on shore, hot tubs being between 3-10ppm chlorine based on continuous monitoring and dosing, and they are drained and super-chlorinated to 100ppm daily to kill any biofilm that could harbor legionella in the piping. This is also why the air jets on hot tubs on cruise ships have been disconnected, to prevent the aerosolization of the water.

 

Cruise ship A/C systems are required to have disinfecting pads placed in the condensate collection troughs to prevent the growth of legionella. Most buildings do not do this.

 

Now, to actual drinking water. The water that is loaded from ports (whether you believe it or not) is chlorinated before it goes into the storage tanks to 2-4ppm, and all of the water produced from sea water, whether from evaporators or reverse osmosis water makers is also chlorinated to 2-4ppm before going into the tanks.

 

Any water loaded in port must be kept segregated from use until a coliform bacteria test is done, which takes 18-24 hours. Also, every month, one potable water tank, and 4 random locations around the ship are sampled and tested for bacteria.

 

Please go to the USPH/CDC website to locate outbreaks of legionella on cruise ships. There was one on Majesty of the Seas last year (the first one in many years), but it was confirmed to be only from selected shower heads, not from the drinking water.

 

Not sure how you are equating Noro virus with bringing your own water, since Noro is a contact transmission virus, and the chlorine in the ship's water is the only recognized effective agent against Noro.

 

The water, food, pools, and nearly every aspect of shipboard operation with regards to public health is better than nearly every similar aspect ashore, since the USPH/CDC, the world recognized experts in infectious diseases and their epidemiology, have jurisdiction over the cruise ships.

[blackwing]

I see the same arguments about "but I can buy a case of Ice Mountain at Costco for $3.99". Think of NCL as a fancy restaurant. When you go to a fancy restaurant at home, they will ask you if you prefer tap water, still water, or sparkling. If you ask for tap water, it is free. If you want still water that comes from a bottle, such as Evian, then they will charge you, and there will be a large markup from what you would pay in the grocery store. Certainly you wouldn't be able to tell the restaurant, I brought my own water, and pull out your own 1 liter bottle of Evian. Just as in a land restaurant, the tap water on NCL is free.

 

The same goes for beer. And vodka. You can buy an entire bottle of Grey Goose for $28, but onboard, one drink made with a miniscule fraction of that bottle will set you back about $14. Why is there not the same outcry about the huge markup on alcohol?

[chengkp75]

 

 

And it still tastes like chlorine. I never said it was "unsafe", just that chlorine is a dangerous chemical that is added to water, sometimes in concentrations far beyond what the standards are, with a yellow appearance out of the tap. Perhaps they need you on board to monitor it better.

 

Sodium hypochlorite is a dangerous and deadly chemical that, when spilled, requires a hazmat team here in California. It is highly diluted in drinking water and does not pose a health hazard, but it remains a horrible chemical from an environmental standpoint. I argue that it is more dangerous to transport a gallon of 10% sodium hypochlorite than it is to transport a case of bottled water.

 

 

Generally, the yellowish water is caused by lime scale, not chlorine. The ships send the water produced through a filter bed of calcium carbonate (think of the ingredient in Tums) to neutralize the slightly acidic distilled water produced. This carbonate then plates out inside the pipes, just as it does in pipes on shore, from naturally occurring carbonates. When the water system, or a part of it, is shut off and drained for maintenance, this scale dries out and falls away from the pipe walls. When the system is refilled with water, this scale then dissolves again, giving the water a yellow to sometimes light brown coloration.

 

There are alarms that monitor if the chlorination levels get too high.

 

Are you saying that spilling a 5 gallon jug of household bleach (3-6% hypoclorite) calls for a hazmat response? I would agree that it is more dangerous to transport bleach than water, but how much more dangerous, depends on the quantity, the concentration, the packaging, and the training of the transporter or end user.

[luddite]

If I desired that I would have a whole lot more than you, with 50 cruises, and when I joined CC.

I don't post unless I'm VERY angry about something even if minor, and some of my posts were to help on a unusual cruise.

You however "need" to make the mile club of insults.

Last word on this, because I found some people actually think that massive cruise ships carry city fresh water in tanks when they do NOT.

Tanks holding water on a cruise ship are not always 100% sanitary.

All I wanted was a choice....NCL used to be about choice.

Making you pay for bottled water when you have the UDP is a terrible business decision.

 

You are confused. It's clear that you are not trying to pad the post count.

The other quote did not reference you.

Annnnd...we seriously doubt that the 'last word on this' has been written. But that's just a guess.

[ilsh75]

Do they sell water at the terminal ? Can't one buy after security screen but before boarding and put in carry on?

[pokerpro5]

I see the same arguments about "but I can buy a case of Ice Mountain at Costco for $3.99". Think of NCL as a fancy restaurant. When you go to a fancy restaurant at home, they will ask you if you prefer tap water, still water, or sparkling. If you ask for tap water, it is free. If you want still water that comes from a bottle, such as Evian, then they will charge you, and there will be a large markup from what you would pay in the grocery store. Certainly you wouldn't be able to tell the restaurant, I brought my own water, and pull out your own 1 liter bottle of Evian. Just as in a land restaurant, the tap water on NCL is free.

 

The same goes for beer. And vodka. You can buy an entire bottle of Grey Goose for $28, but onboard, one drink made with a miniscule fraction of that bottle will set you back about $14. Why is there not the same outcry about the huge markup on alcohol?

 

You aren't living at a restaurant for 7 days or more.

 

Argument fails.

 

Also, you are RESTRICTED from bringing your own water onboard now, which is different than hotels, ballparks, and most amusement parks.

 

Also, other cruise lines with this same water restriction either include bottled water with their UBP, or they charge much more REASONABLE rates for water. Not cheap, but REASONABLE.

 

NCL could mark up the water by a factor of 3, and I think everyone would be at least somewhat okay with it.

 

It's the fact that they're restricting bringing it AND charging 9x its land price which is getting everyone hot under the collar.

[KSU Fan69]

Do they sell water at the terminal ? Can't one buy after security screen but before boarding and put in carry on?

 

Yea from NCL. Prices have actually gone down believe it or not.

 

Its $59.95 for a 24 pack of 1 liter bottles.

[fshagan]

Are you saying that spilling a 5 gallon jug of household bleach (3-6% hypoclorite) calls for a hazmat response? I would agree that it is more dangerous to transport bleach than water' date=' but how much more dangerous, depends on the quantity, the concentration, the packaging, and the training of the transporter or end user.[/quote']

 

Spilling a 1 gallon bottle of pool chlorine, about 10% sodium hypochlorite, results in a hazmat response. They close freeways in my home state when it happens. These two stories are for sodium hypochlorite only, not chlorine and muriatic acid (which produces a gas similar to mustard gas used in WWI). They are from "pool cleaning trucks" (pool guys driving around maintaining swimming pools).

 

http://www.mercedsunstar.com/news/article27225886.html

 

http://www.ktnv.com/news/spill-closes-ramp-at-i-15-and-cheyenne-avenue

 

You need a healthy respect for these chemicals. The storage of them is heavily regulated on shore just as it is on your ships. I'm sure you have procedures regarding the handling of this chemical that you are just not talking about because it is, indeed, dangerous to health.

 

When diluted, there is minimal health risk that is offset by the benefit of avoiding a larger danger, contaminated drinking water. I'm not arguing the merits of chlorine as a sanitizing agent, but arguing that I prefer the taste of water without any added chlorine, and like UV and ozone treated bottled water's taste over tap water.

Edited September 2, 2016 by fshagan

[debrajean]

What do they do if you bring a bottle or two on the ship after you were at a port (St Thomas, Cozumel, etc)? I have done this in the past. As I usually just buy a bottle while walking/shopping and bring it back onboard.

 

 

Has anyone done this recently?

[beerman2]

Yea from NCL. Prices have actually gone down believe it or not.

 

Its $59.95 for a 24 pack of 1 liter bottles.

 

If that's the case 2.50 for a 1 liter bottle is not outrageous. But the argument will continue that it's only $1.00 elsewhere .

 

However you/me/we/they are on a ship , a captive audience , and will pay the price if one wants bottled water.