passports

[cowgrrl]

We cruised with our kids on a closed loop & got passports for everyone. One thing I noticed was that it made getting through customs & other ports so much easier. We were in line with our passports & next to us was a family using IDs & birth certificates. We were done before them because everything was having to be matched up & double checked & they just scanned our passports & we were off.

[MrsPete]

Well, this topic gets discussed ad naseum, so a search will turn up a ton of threads with a megaton of opinions.

 

First, the facts:

 

1. A child's passport is valid for 5 years.

2. A person may take a closed-loop cruise like the one you have described using only a certified birth certificate (one issued by the state) and a photo ID. The requirement for a photo ID is waived for children under 16 years of age.

3. Should you have to return to the U.S. by any other means than your cruise ship, you will need a U.S. passport to do so. The most common reasons for having to leave the ship are a medical emergency and a family emergency back home. Posters often tout the incidence of being late back to port and missing the ship, but that is almost negligible. (The basis for my assertion is years as the spouse of a U.S. consular officer in a port often visited by cruise ships. In comparison to the number of people who cruise, it just hardly ever happens.)

 

The recommendation:

 

Whether to get passports for your children depends on:

 

1. Your financial situation

2. Your likelihood of international travel within the next 5 years

3. Your comfort level of traveling without a passport. (Are you a worrier? Do you have ill family members at home? Etc.)

 

A final note: Should you have to get an emergency passport abroad, it will be neither quick nor easy. The U.S. Consular officer will do it as quickly as he/she can, but U.S. laws and regulations will still have to be met and you could encounter delays.

These facts are presented without bias, which is good. I totally agree that the passport /no passport decision should be made based upon one's other likely travels within X number of years; the right answer for one person is not the same as the right answer for another person. I'll add a couple things:

 

- A person's age makes no difference when he's boarding a cruise ship or flying internationally. For an American on a closed-loop cruise, a birth certificate is enough, though many people choose to get a passport.

 

- When you're talking about getting a passport for a minor, both parents must go in person to apply for the passport (or must complete /have notarized a form).

- Kids' passports cannot be renewed; rather, in five years' time, the parents and child must go again in person.

 

- Keep in mind that no matter what type of identification you use to travel, the possibility of flying home isn't particularly realistic. You'd have to wait for your ship to arrive in a port (which could be a day or two) and disembark early (which means paperwork and paying a fee to the cruise line). If you flew to your port city, you'd lose the cost of your already-purchased return-home ticket, and you'd have to buy a last-minute ticket (if the small island airport has a flight available during your time frame). If you drove to your port city, you'd probably need to fly to that city and then drive home.

 

The point: People toss out the thought, "Oh, with a passport you can always fly home!" as if it's easy -- it isn't. Flying home early is a very expensive choice, and it'd have to be a very big emergency to convince a family to do it.

 

- Yes, if you find yourself in an emergency situation and are stranded on an island, it would be expensive to get help to fly home, and depending upon the day /time you were stranded, help might or might not be available immediately ... but the possibility is also quite remote.

[MrsPete]

That's a pretty big stretch to say that someone's life is at risk. Millions of people travel on closed looped cruises every year with something other than a passport with no issues at all. It is a viable choice for some, even if it's not a choice for you.

Yes, it's a huge stretch. The passport /no passport decision should be made based upon the individual's circumstances and actual facts.

[sail7seas]

That's a pretty big stretch to say that someone's life is at risk. Millions of people travel on closed looped cruises every year with something other than a passport with no issues at all. It is a viable choice for some, even if it's not a choice for you.

 

 

How do you know this to be true? That millions travel on closed looped c ruises with no issues? I would have no idea if that is so. You know who falls, r brwK s a leg or worse? Has a severe medical emergency?Millions, really?

Edited December 19, 2016 by sail7seas

[sparks1093]

How do you know this to be true? That millions travel on closed looped c ruises with no issues? I would have no idea if that is so. You know who falls, r brwK s a leg or worse? Has a severe medical emergency?Millions, really?

 

I do a lot of research and a lot of reading. One of the things that I read was that there were 10 million cruisers worldwide (I believe that number is from 2013). I read that more cruises originate in the US than anywhere else so if one figures that of the 10 million cruisers 6.5 million of them leave on cruises out of the US, with most of those cruises being closed looped cruises, so a reasonable estimate would be 4.5 million. I have read in multiple sources that on each closed loop cruise 50 to 70 percent of the passengers are using something other than a passport. If one uses the lower number that gives us 2.25 million cruisers using something other than a passport. So yes, conservatively millions travel on closed loop cruises each year with something other than a passport. One industry insider in an article that I read stated that less than 2% will have to return via another means other than on the ship that they embarked on and other insiders think that it is lower than that. The fact remains that for most people that the odds of them returning on the ship they leave on are very, very good and the risks are very small. Of course some people have a higher risk (those traveling with infants, elderly passengers with know medical issues, etc.). But as I say frequently, travelers should get the documentation that meets their travel needs, whatever that documentation happens to be.

[S.A.M.J.R.]

How do you know this to be true? That millions travel on closed looped c ruises with no issues? I would have no idea if that is so. You know who falls, r brwK s a leg or worse? Has a severe medical emergency?Millions, really?

A broken leg (or arm) isn't going to require leaving a cruise early. Ships have medical facilities on board that can handle routine (and some not so routine) medical procedures.

 

I think the number of cruisers intentionally leaving a cruise early (medical or family emergency) is a VERY low number compared to the number of people who cruise.

 

The odds of needing a passport to go home early are very low.

 

FWIW, we just got DS and younger DD's passports "renewed" (yes, you don't renew a child's passport). Applied 12/3, received the passports 12/17.

 

If both parents can't be at the application, the non-attending parent simply needs to fill out a form and get it notorized.

[sail7seas]

I do a lot of research and a lot of reading. One of the things that I read was that there were 10 million cruisers worldwide (I believe that number is from 2013). I read that more cruises originate in the US than anywhere else so if one figures that of the 10 million cruisers 6.5 million of them leave on cruises out of the US, with most of those cruises being closed looped cruises, so a reasonable estimate would be 4.5 million. I have read in multiple sources that on each closed loop cruise 50 to 70 percent of the passengers are using something other than a passport. If one uses the lower number that gives us 2.25 million cruisers using something other than a passport. So yes, conservatively millions travel on closed loop cruises each year with something other than a passport. One industry insider in an article that I read stated that less than 2% will have to return via another means other than on the ship that they embarked on and other insiders think that it is lower than that. The fact remains that for most people that the odds of them returning on the ship they leave on are very, very good and the risks are very small. Of course some people have a higher risk (those traveling with infants, elderly passengers with know medical issues, etc.). But as I say frequently, travelers should get the documentation that meets their travel needs, whatever that documentation happens to be.

 

I F you read it on the internet, ti must be true. :) extremely reliable source. I certrainly do not know where you read wha but :D :D

Edited December 22, 2016 by sail7seas

[sparks1093]

I F you read it on the internet, ti must be true. :) extremely reliable source. I certrainly do not know where you read wha but :D :D

 

Reputable travel magazines and organizations for the most part, but hey, think what you will. Fact remains that cruising without a passport on a closed loop cruise is still a viable option for many travelers whether you like it or not :).

Edited December 22, 2016 by sparks1093

[MrsPete]

I do a lot of research and a lot of reading. One of the things that I read was that there were 10 million cruisers worldwide (I believe that number is from 2013). I read that more cruises originate in the US than anywhere else so if one figures that of the 10 million cruisers 6.5 million of them leave on cruises out of the US, with most of those cruises being closed looped cruises, so a reasonable estimate would be 4.5 million. I have read in multiple sources that on each closed loop cruise 50 to 70 percent of the passengers are using something other than a passport. If one uses the lower number that gives us 2.25 million cruisers using something other than a passport. So yes, conservatively millions travel on closed loop cruises each year with something other than a passport. One industry insider in an article that I read stated that less than 2% will have to return via another means other than on the ship that they embarked on and other insiders think that it is lower than that. The fact remains that for most people that the odds of them returning on the ship they leave on are very, very good and the risks are very small. Of course some people have a higher risk (those traveling with infants, elderly passengers with know medical issues, etc.). But as I say frequently, travelers should get the documentation that meets their travel needs, whatever that documentation happens to be.

You're totally right, of course:

 

- Americans take millions of cruises every year. Anyone who doesn't believe it can calculate the number of ships X the number of beds X 52 weeks a year ... it's definitely in the millions.

- These boards are quite active. If significant numbers of people were failing to make it back home, we'd hear such stories frequently. But these stories aren't commonplace.

 

And I agree with your conclusion: People should make educated decisions /evaluate their own personal risk for cruise problems, and they should obtain whatever documentation makes the most sense for their situation. No blanket answer exists.

[FlyerTalker]

One other consideration.

 

The passport for a child can start a solid, documentary trail of photographic proof of both identity and citizenship. It is the one document that is universally recognized ID throughout the USA and one that provides one-doc proof for all types of situations.

[MrsPete]

One other consideration.

 

The passport for a child can start a solid, documentary trail of photographic proof of both identity and citizenship. It is the one document that is universally recognized ID throughout the USA and one that provides one-doc proof for all types of situations.

Eh, not so much. For example, a passport isn't accepted at the DMV. Last time I had to renew my license, I foolishly waited too long, so I ended up sitting in their awful waiting room (on my birthday -- not my best choice ever).

 

That place is never fun, but one of the conversations I overheard was between the DMV people and a mother who wanted to get a state ID (not a full-fledged license) for her tween. You need two IDs to get a license or state ID, and one of IDs they'd brought was a passport ... the DMV wouldn't take it. They left without the state ID they'd come to get.

 

Also, the day the passport expires, it's no good; so the trail of solidly documented identification ends on the day the passport expires.

 

On the other hand, birth certificates and SS cards last a lifetime. Yes, you can argue that they lack photographs, but apparently the government doesn't care about that.

 

If you want to argue that it's kind of odd that they accept a school report card and not a passport, I'll agree with you -- but that doesn't change the rules.

[Doug R.]

Eh, not so much. For example, a passport isn't accepted at the DMV. Last time I had to renew my license, I foolishly waited too long, so I ended up sitting in their awful waiting room (on my birthday -- not my best choice ever).

 

That place is never fun, but one of the conversations I overheard was between the DMV people and a mother who wanted to get a state ID (not a full-fledged license) for her tween. You need two IDs to get a license or state ID, and one of IDs they'd brought was a passport ... the DMV wouldn't take it. They left without the state ID they'd come to get.

 

Also, the day the passport expires, it's no good; so the trail of solidly documented identification ends on the day the passport expires.

 

On the other hand, birth certificates and SS cards last a lifetime. Yes, you can argue that they lack photographs, but apparently the government doesn't care about that.

 

If you want to argue that it's kind of odd that they accept a school report card and not a passport, I'll agree with you -- but that doesn't change the rules.

 

In New Jersey you need 6 points of identification to get a licence/id where each possible type of identification gets a point value. Passport ranks highest at 4 points, I find it strange that your state doesn't accept it unless it is one of those states that don't trust the federal gubberment.

[MrsPete]

In New Jersey you need 6 points of identification to get a licence/id where each possible type of identification gets a point value. Passport ranks highest at 4 points, I find it strange that your state doesn't accept it unless it is one of those states that don't trust the federal gubberment.

I can only tell you what I overheard while waiting my turn in the DMV.

[Shmoo here]

Eh, not so much. For example, a passport isn't accepted at the DMV. Last time I had to renew my license, I foolishly waited too long, so I ended up sitting in their awful waiting room (on my birthday -- not my best choice ever).

 

That place is never fun, but one of the conversations I overheard was between the DMV people and a mother who wanted to get a state ID (not a full-fledged license) for her tween. You need two IDs to get a license or state ID, and one of IDs they'd brought was a passport ... the DMV wouldn't take it. They left without the state ID they'd come to get.

 

Also, the day the passport expires, it's no good; so the trail of solidly documented identification ends on the day the passport expires.

 

On the other hand, birth certificates and SS cards last a lifetime. Yes, you can argue that they lack photographs, but apparently the government doesn't care about that.

 

If you want to argue that it's kind of odd that they accept a school report card and not a passport, I'll agree with you -- but that doesn't change the rules.

 

What state doesn't accept a passport as proof of identity?

[FlyerTalker]

I can only tell you what I overheard while waiting my turn in the DMV.

Ah...the infamous "I overheard".

 

Could it be that they had an expired passport? One from another country? One that had a difference with the other piece of ID?

 

Details, please, from your overhearing.

[MicCanberra]

Travel without a passport is almost as bad as travelling without travel insurance. Most times, it won't matter but when you need it most and do not have it, well then you are up the creek with no paddle.

[sparks1093]

Travel without a passport is almost as bad as travelling without travel insurance. Most times, it won't matter but when you need it most and do not have it, well then you are up the creek with no paddle.

 

In many ways deciding whether or not to get a passport for a US citizen on a closed loop cruise is very like the decision to obtain travel insurance- one determines the risk and determines if one is willing to live with that risk, which is if something happens there will be a delay while the necessary documentation is obtained. On our last cruise with family travel insurance set us back $130, to obtain passports for the 4 of us would have cost around $600. The travel insurance protected us against potential losses of $10's of thousands of dollars, the passports would have meant that if something happened we would not be delayed up to a few days in returning home.

[MicCanberra]

In many ways deciding whether or not to get a passport for a US citizen on a closed loop cruise is very like the decision to obtain travel insurance- one determines the risk and determines if one is willing to live with that risk, which is if something happens there will be a delay while the necessary documentation is obtained. On our last cruise with family travel insurance set us back $130, to obtain passports for the 4 of us would have cost around $600. The travel insurance protected us against potential losses of $10's of thousands of dollars, the passports would have meant that if something happened we would not be delayed up to a few days in returning home.

 

True, it is for each person to evaluate and assess with their level of risk.

[navybankerteacher]

In many ways deciding whether or not to get a passport for a US citizen on a closed loop cruise is very like the decision to obtain travel insurance- one determines the risk and determines if one is willing to live with that risk, which is if something happens there will be a delay while the necessary documentation is obtained. On our last cruise with family travel insurance set us back $130, to obtain passports for the 4 of us would have cost around $600. The travel insurance protected us against potential losses of $10's of thousands of dollars, the passports would have meant that if something happened we would not be delayed up to a few days in returning home.

 

Your arithmetic is OK - except for the fact that the $130 insurance covered just that one trip - while the value of the $600 for passports would extend for ten years - also making Global Entry possible- which even if not used for entering US does expedite local travel.

 

When comparing apples and oranges, you should count the oranges.

[sparks1093]

Your arithmetic is OK - except for the fact that the $130 insurance covered just that one trip - while the value of the $600 for passports would extend for ten years - also making Global Entry possible- which even if not used for entering US does expedite local travel.

 

When comparing apples and oranges, you should count the oranges.

 

I didn't mention it, but I did factor that in and we had no plans at the time to travel via any other means other than cruises. When those plans changed (sooner than we expected), we got passports. Easy Peasy.

[MrsPete]

We got my 10 month old son a passport for his first cruise. He developed bronchiolitis and we had to fly home from Bermuda. I was so happy we didn't have to deal with first getting his passport as Bermuda is a very expensive island to get stuck on.

Obviously we don't all agree upon what constitutes an emergency ... or maybe just how to respond to an emergency:

 

If my child developed bronchitis, a miserable but ordinary illness, I'd take him to the ship's doctor and get an antibiotic. It would mean 24 hours of staying in the room onboard (after 24 hours on antibiotic, the bronchitis is no longer transferable), but he could sleep, read books, watch TV, order room service onboard ... and the parents could take turns staying in the room with him ... which would be better than taking him (sick) on a plane home. Yeah, you'd miss your island stops, but you could still watch movies, go to the buffet, and enjoy one another's company.

 

The cost difference would be huge: An antibiotic would cost more than it would cost at home ... but plane tickets and loss of the rest of the cruise would be exponentially higher.

Your arithmetic is OK - except for the fact that the $130 insurance covered just that one trip - while the value of the $600 for passports would extend for ten years - also making Global Entry possible- which even if not used for entering US does expedite local travel.

 

When comparing apples and oranges, you should count the oranges.

If you want to compare apples and oranges, you wouldn't use 10 years as the comparison; rather, you'd consider how many times you'd use that passport in those 10 years. If you use them only once ever, it's a $600 use ... if you use them twice, it'd be a $300 use ... if you use them twice a year, it'd be a $50 use. And regardless, you have to include the fact that the birth certificates are free /never expire -- if you're ONLY going to cruise, that could be $0 regardless of how many times you cruise.

 

Since you brought up the topic of insurance, keep in mind that if you buy ship's insurance, it might be $130 (would depend up on the cost of your cruise and the number of people involved) ... and you're insuring everything. If you buy from a third party insurer, however, you have options. For example, we know that our health insurance would pay if we became sick or were injured onboard -- so we don't pay for health insurance during cruises. We drive to the port and handle our own luggage, so we don't pay for lost luggage insurance. We only pay for emergency evacuation insurance ... and that's about $30 per trip.

 

I didn't mention it, but I did factor that in and we had no plans at the time to travel via any other means other than cruises. When those plans changed (sooner than we expected), we got passports. Easy Peasy.

Yeah, if your plans include vacations where passports are a necessity, definitely get them. No question. But for just a cruise, you have to consider your circumstances.

Edited December 29, 2016 by MrsPete

[bean24]

Obviously we don't all agree upon what constitutes an emergency ... or maybe just how to respond to an emergency:

 

If my child developed bronchitis, a miserable but ordinary illness, I'd take him to the ship's doctor and get an antibiotic. It would mean 24 hours of staying in the room onboard (after 24 hours on antibiotic, the bronchitis is no longer transferable), but he could sleep, read books, watch TV, order room service onboard ... and the parents could take turns staying in the room with him ... which would be better than taking him (sick) on a plane home. Yeah, you'd miss your island stops, but you could still watch movies, go to the buffet, and enjoy one another's company.

 

The cost difference would be huge: An antibiotic would cost more than it would cost at home ... but plane tickets and loss of the rest of the cruise would be exponentially higher.

 

If you want to compare apples and oranges, you wouldn't use 10 years as the comparison; rather, you'd consider how many times you'd use that passport in those 10 years. If you use them only once ever, it's a $600 use ... if you use them twice, it'd be a $300 use ... if you use them twice a year, it'd be a $50 use. And regardless, you have to include the fact that the birth certificates are free /never expire -- if you're ONLY going to cruise, that could be $0 regardless of how many times you cruise.

 

Since you brought up the topic of insurance, keep in mind that if you buy ship's insurance, it might be $130 (would depend up on the cost of your cruise and the number of people involved) ... and you're insuring everything. If you buy from a third party insurer, however, you have options. For example, we know that our health insurance would pay if we became sick or were injured onboard -- so we don't pay for health insurance during cruises. We drive to the port and handle our own luggage, so we don't pay for lost luggage insurance. We only pay for emergency evacuation insurance ... and that's about $30 per trip.

 

 

Yeah, if your plans include vacations where passports are a necessity, definitely get them. No question. But for just a cruise, you have to consider your circumstances.

 

 

My son got bronchiolitis, which is when the smallest airways get swollen and fill with fluid. We had no choice the ships doctor ordered him off, her reason being there's a chance he will need to be intubated and they can't do it. Luckily he did respond well to the treatment in the hospital and we were okayed to fly home a few days later. Sometimes it's not up to you what's considered an emergency. For what it's worth while in the hospital we met three other ship passengers, one had a heart attack, and the other two broke bones in a moped accident, all of us had to fly home

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[easyboy]

Your arithmetic is OK - except for the fact that the $130 insurance covered just that one trip - while the value of the $600 for passports would extend for ten years - also making Global Entry possible- which even if not used for entering US does expedite local travel.

 

When comparing apples and oranges, you should count the oranges.

Exactly.