Spa-disaster on Reflection ..Buyer Beware!

[Chunky2219]

The best bet is to book a Penthouse on Seven Seas Explorer. You get your own spa in the suite, complete with the heated, tiled loungers and the staff come to you to provide service. A snip at about $8000 per night. Plus the price of the service of course.

 

The alternative I suppose, is to complain to the Hotel Manager or Guest Services Manager, and just keep escalating until someone will listen. I'd have taken the same initial track as the OP - things can't be perfect all the time and everyone gets the chance to put things right, no-one really needs to be whining for the sake of it in a public area. But if the manager in charge isn't capable of responding to a reasonable concern it's time to move up the food chain. The failed phone call is what would have my snot fizz!

 

On a wider note, I've felt there's been a deterioration in spa services on Celebrity and other lines in recent years. I only go for a deep tissue massage once or twice a cruise which doesn't seem to have changed materially but the desk service has become more lack lustre, less professional.

 

 

 

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Edited December 19, 2016 by Chunky2219
typo

[Z3RACERGIRL]

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2432256&page=6

 

 

 

See post #105

 

 

 

I originally posted this on a thread entitled "Celebrity Rants" before creating a new post. I'm not sure why this is problematic for you.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Z3RACERGIRL]

My sentiments exactly. I was expecting when I logged on, reading about a pax getting hurt or the ship being damaged.

 

 

 

Please don't criticize my wording. I was trying to be general with the title. The ship is still in one piece and no one was hurt. Now, go put on your positive pants and carry on.

[EdgeSport2.7TT]

We just sailed 12/10-12/17. Lovely ship, and overall nice cruise, but my experience in the spa was quite the opposite. A little background..this was my 38th cruise and I've frequented the spa on nearly all of them. Never had a single bad experience with facials, massages, etc. I am familiar with the Steiner group that run the spas for other cruise lines as well as Canyon Ranch which Celebrity now uses. I am recovering from a serious surgery, and heat therapy has been instrumental during the healing process. I fell in love with the heated tile loungers on the Silhouette last year. As soon as I stepped aboard the Reflection, I went to the spa and immediately bought the unlimited weekly pass for Persian Gardens for 88.00 - it was the one thing I had anticipated most about the entire cruise. Ironically, during the spa open house tour, all the beds were full, but I didn't think much about it. I asked how soon I could use the pass, and the gal said not until later during dinner hours. That was fine. Came back that night and beds were full. No big deal. Returned at lunch the following two days. Beds were full again. Came back late afternoon and overheard another lady at the desk complaining about the same issue, and just left. I am not a complainer by nature, and I was also mindful that I was in the waiting area where people who were spending money to relax could overhear me and didn't want to create a negative vibe. After two port days, I went up and asked to speak to the manager (Vivian) after making sure no one was around. I explained what had happened. I politely asked her for a credit on my account. She told me the pass was non-refundable. I told her I hadn't even been able to use the pass a single time all week, she suggests I go use it right then- I was already dressed up for dinner at this hour, and couldn't. She just shrugs and says try tomorrow. I was shocked at her lack of professionalism, I've never seen this aboard a ship...ever. I went to guest services ( a first for me, as well). They contacted the spa on my behalf, and told me the spa would be calling my cabin later in the evening. No call, no voicemail. The last sea day, I return to the spa and spoke to Vivian who again refused the credit and told me to go use the beds right then, that she would personally make sure they were being rotated. I literally couldn't believe my ears. I reminded her that this wasn't like a pool lounger, that I had paid for something that they just were not providing, and that wasn't acceptable. It's not good business to oversell a service. The cruise was almost over. She became very argumentative and STILL insisted there was time to use the beds as long as I was onboard one last day. I truly left feeling insulted. I never did get to use the pass a single time. This alone could have ruined my cruise, because I was dreaming about those loungers for months, and was very disappointed. I won't return to another Canyon Ranch Spa, ever, this could have been handled so much better. FYI- It wasn't even about the credit, I actually disembarked yesterday with 78$ worth of OBC that wasn't ever spent. As a business owner, I just cannot imagine treating a client like this, and wanted others to know. Purchase the passes with caution, and low expectations.

Was on the same sailing as the OP, with my husband and had an equally horrible experience with the Spa on board.

 

The Canyon Ranch Spa is a separate entity on the boat and no one is above the Spa manager/director. She and I had two separate interactions along with visiting the Guest Relations desk (whose hands were tied but did an excellent job trying). The first time she said, "....no...no....no..no" to basically everything we were asking for. And only after coming back and making a scene in the Spa lobby did she finally grasp what customer service means.

 

Note: If you don't know the policies; you must provide at least 6 hours notice when cancelling a service. So, say you book a massage when you immediately get on the boat, you better be ready to pay for it. Otherwise, you still pay for the service even if you didn't receive it. The technicians will most likely not tell you this, its not in their best interest for they will get paid either way. Also, if you hurt yourself on the boat, and this is the reason why you are cancelling your spa treatment, they will try to have their "doctor" take a look and you still can't cancel your services. Only if they are able to fill the vacant time slot, will they not charge you for the cancelled appointment. Yes, I know that 99% of other land based Spas require 24hr notice....but the problem is those other 99% will tell you up front about their cancellation policy. Canyon Ranch Spa does not, and is not willing to fold unless you throw a fit in front of everyone. Celebrity Cruises still gets our business but the Spa will never receive a dime from us.

[WonderMan3]

Was on the same sailing as the OP, with my husband and had an equally horrible experience with the Spa on board.

 

The Canyon Ranch Spa is a separate entity on the boat and no one is above the Spa manager/director. She and I had two separate interactions along with visiting the Guest Relations desk (whose hands were tied but did an excellent job trying). The first time she said, "....no...no....no..no" to basically everything we were asking for. And only after coming back and making a scene in the Spa lobby did she finally grasp what customer service means.

 

Note: If you don't know the policies; you must provide at least 6 hours notice when cancelling a service. So, say you book a massage when you immediately get on the boat, you better be ready to pay for it. Otherwise, you still pay for the service even if you didn't receive it. The technicians will most likely not tell you this, its not in their best interest for they will get paid either way. Also, if you hurt yourself on the boat, and this is the reason why you are cancelling your spa treatment, they will try to have their "doctor" take a look and you still can't cancel your services. Only if they are able to fill the vacant time slot, will they not charge you for the cancelled appointment. Yes, I know that 99% of other land based Spas require 24hr notice....but the problem is those other 99% will tell you up front about their cancellation policy. Canyon Ranch Spa does not, and is not willing to fold unless you throw a fit in front of everyone. Celebrity Cruises still gets our business but the Spa will never receive a dime from us.

 

We've always been told what the cancellation policy was when we've booked at the spa. I've always found them to be very accommodating when we've had to change appointment times. Once I even changed the type of treatment I wanted when I arrived for it (from some sort of wrap scrub to a standard deep tissue massage) with them not even batting an eye even though it was a lesser priced treatment. (Now this was 1 of 3 treatments I had booked during the entire cruise so perhaps that made them more open to changes) Maybe it's the way you approach a situation that determines the reaction you get in kind?

[TeaBag]

I think there should be a comma between "However" & "breaking" in your post.

Touche.

[Fish Lover]

T my snot fizz!

 

 

Never heard that...I think I'll use it :D

[Fish Lover]

Was on the same sailing as the OP, with my husband and had an equally horrible experience with the Spa on board.

 

The Canyon Ranch Spa is a separate entity on the boat and no one is above the Spa manager/director. She and I had two separate interactions along with visiting the Guest Relations desk (whose hands were tied but did an excellent job trying). The first time she said, "....no...no....no..no" to basically everything we were asking for. And only after coming back and making a scene in the Spa lobby did she finally grasp what customer service means.

 

Note: If you don't know the policies; you must provide at least 6 hours notice when cancelling a service. So, say you book a massage when you immediately get on the boat, you better be ready to pay for it. Otherwise, you still pay for the service even if you didn't receive it. The technicians will most likely not tell you this, its not in their best interest for they will get paid either way. Also, if you hurt yourself on the boat, and this is the reason why you are cancelling your spa treatment, they will try to have their "doctor" take a look and you still can't cancel your services. Only if they are able to fill the vacant time slot, will they not charge you for the cancelled appointment. Yes, I know that 99% of other land based Spas require 24hr notice....but the problem is those other 99% will tell you up front about their cancellation policy. Canyon Ranch Spa does not, and is not willing to fold unless you throw a fit in front of everyone. Celebrity Cruises still gets our business but the Spa will never receive a dime from us.

 

Yes, there is someone above the spa manager. The marketing Director is a Celebrity ships' officer and s/he is responsible for all the vendor's on board. That includes how passengers are treated.

[Living4acruise2day]

Please don't criticize my wording. I was trying to be general with the title. The ship is still in one piece and no one was hurt. Now, go put on your positive pants and carry on.

 

Well, that was not very kind. I simply stated that when I saw the title "disaster", I thought there may have been someone hurt. Why so cruel to me?

[Fish Lover]

It makes perfect sense to me to limit the time. Guests pay for using the area so why should someone hog the space?

 

I spent a few hours in Persian Gardens on Constellation as part of the Captain's Club perk. It was poorly run, the place was a mess with various things not working and I was totally underwhelmed.

 

Why should my time be limited? No one limits your time when you are in a lounger by the pool...as long as you are actually using the lounger. I pay a premium to be in an Aqua cabin, why should I be limited in how many minutes I am using the services, as long as I am using them? This is NOT the same as "chair hogs" who try to "reserve" their space even when they aren't using it. Nor is this a service for which everyone has an equal right to use, such as seating in the buffet. You pay for use. The problem is when the spa staff tries to oversell access. This is no doubt due to the spa trying to make their sales quota. (and yes...according to the officer in charge of vendors they have quotas) That is where the problem lies.

[jaspersmommy]

I couldn't disagree more. It's common courtesy to let others have a chance to use the heated loungers. Anyone who stays in them for an excessive amount of time is just plain rude. No need to hog. There are considerably more loungers by the pool than there are heated loungers in the spa... so hardly an apples-to-apples comparison. I can also honestly say that I never claim a chair by the pool for a full day. I spend a couple of hours at most and then leave and let someone else have a chance.

 

Everyone in the spa has paid for access, either in their cruise fare (Aqua) or by paying for a pass (everyone else). All should have a chance to use it. Spa staff need to enforce time limits. Too bad that has to happen. Why can't people just be considerate of others and just use common sense.

 

As for the original post... it's hardly a disaster. There is more to the spa than the heated loungers, so I can't disagree with no refund. When in the spa, I've often arrived when the loungers were full. A few minutes waiting usually does the trick. No biggie. We can't all expect everything to be empty and waiting for us when we're on a ship with that many people.

[jaspersmommy]

Deleted - duplicate post.

Edited December 19, 2016 by jaspersmommy

[lizakramer]

I was on the same sailing as OP. I, too, found the spa environment and use of the Persian Garden to be not as relaxing as I expected. Based on my experience, I would attribute the shortcomings to staff and, to a lesser degree, the facilities. As a point of comparison, I have also visited the spa and Persian Garden on Celebrity's Eclipse.

 

When I entered the spa, at the reception desk there were two employees. One was on the phone, the other left the area as I approached the desk. I waited while employee finished her phone call, which seemed to be a personal call. I told her that I wished to purchase a day pass and confirmed the price. She said fine, asked for my sea pass, and handed me a different card to use while in the spa. She did not indicate the purpose or use of the spa card.

 

She then walked me to the changing area. I expected that at some point, I would be provided with a robe, footwear, access to a locker, and perhaps a tour of the facilities. Instead, she unlocked a locker, told me to remember the locker number and to change, so that she could re-lock the locker. I found this odd, and wondered if she was going to stay there and watch me change. I then inquired about a robe. She left and returned with a robe - sure, that's all that I had asked for, but then had to ask if they were going to provide footwear as is typical. She sighed, seemed annoyed, and went off to get the footwear.

 

I had to go find her again when I needed to get something from the locker. At this point, I imagine that she was annoyed, as I was, but I had no option, since she was the only person who could unlock the locker.

 

She walked me to the Persian Garden, no tour or discussion of the facilities that were available. In the Persian Garden, the trash and towel bins were overflowing. Of course, it is a high use area, but during the several hours that I was in PG, observed that there were no employees maintaining the area.

 

Regarding the heated loungers, I noticed that they were not as warm as I expected, and at least two seemed to not be heated at all.

 

Later, when I asked why she needed to lock and unlock the lockers, since there were combination locks on the locker, she replied that the combination locks didn't work.

 

When I received my final bill, I noted that the actual cost of the day pass was about $5 more than the amount I confirmed (29.50 instead of 25.00); I assume the difference was a required gratuity, or tax, but think it would've been better for her to advise me of the price difference.

 

I suppose these inconveniences may seem trivial, but the combination of things made the experience less than stellar. Given the cost, brand, and past experiences, I was expecting an experience closer to stellar. I was disappointed and regretted that I had recommended the Persian Garden to others on the ship.

 

 

My husband and I just had a similar experience on Sllhouette. We did not have passes to Persian Garden - but we each had 80-minute appointments booked (on 2 different days, so 4 appointments in all). We were amazed that they did not offer us a robe, slippers, nor access to a steam room or sauna when we showed up for our appointments. We were simply walked down to the "relaxation room" and left there to wait for our therapists to come get us. We changed out of our clothes inside the treatment room. This is simply not a "complete" spa experience, and not good enough in my opinion. Especially when "Canyon Ranch" is on the front door. The overall operation is lacking.

[Fish Lover]

I was on the same sailing as OP. I, too, found the spa environment and use of the Persian Garden to be not as relaxing as I expected. Based on my experience, I would attribute the shortcomings to staff and, to a lesser degree, the facilities. As a point of comparison, I have also visited the spa and Persian Garden on Celebrity's Eclipse.

 

When I entered the spa, at the reception desk there were two employees. One was on the phone, the other left the area as I approached the desk. I waited while employee finished her phone call, which seemed to be a personal call. I told her that I wished to purchase a day pass and confirmed the price. She said fine, asked for my sea pass, and handed me a different card to use while in the spa. She did not indicate the purpose or use of the spa card.

 

She then walked me to the changing area. I expected that at some point, I would be provided with a robe, footwear, access to a locker, and perhaps a tour of the facilities. Instead, she unlocked a locker, told me to remember the locker number and to change, so that she could re-lock the locker. I found this odd, and wondered if she was going to stay there and watch me change. I then inquired about a robe. She left and returned with a robe - sure, that's all that I had asked for, but then had to ask if they were going to provide footwear as is typical. She sighed, seemed annoyed, and went off to get the footwear.

 

I had to go find her again when I needed to get something from the locker. At this point, I imagine that she was annoyed, as I was, but I had no option, since she was the only person who could unlock the locker.

 

She walked me to the Persian Garden, no tour or discussion of the facilities that were available. In the Persian Garden, the trash and towel bins were overflowing. Of course, it is a high use area, but during the several hours that I was in PG, observed that there were no employees maintaining the area.

 

Regarding the heated loungers, I noticed that they were not as warm as I expected, and at least two seemed to not be heated at all.

 

Later, when I asked why she needed to lock and unlock the lockers, since there were combination locks on the locker, she replied that the combination locks didn't work.

 

When I received my final bill, I noted that the actual cost of the day pass was about $5 more than the amount I confirmed (29.50 instead of 25.00); I assume the difference was a required gratuity, or tax, but think it would've been better for her to advise me of the price difference.

 

I suppose these inconveniences may seem trivial, but the combination of things made the experience less than stellar. Given the cost, brand, and past experiences, I was expecting an experience closer to stellar. I was disappointed and regretted that I had recommended the Persian Garden to others on the ship.

 

This was totally unacceptable and I do hope you complained. Celebrity can not fix what they don't know about. Now if you did complain, and they did nothing...then that is a different issue.

 

Complaining here btw is not a real complaint and will not suffice. This board is anonymous and posts often exclude information Celebrity needs in order to effect a change.

[Sandtrap328]

I couldn't disagree more. It's common courtesy to let others have a chance to use the heated loungers. Anyone who stays in them for an excessive amount of time is just plain rude. No need to hog. There are considerably more loungers by the pool than there are heated loungers in the spa... so hardly an apples-to-apples comparison. I can also honestly say that I never claim a chair by the pool for a full day. I spend a couple of hours at most and then leave and let someone else have a chance.

 

Everyone in the spa has paid for access, either in their cruise fare (Aqua) or by paying for a pass (everyone else). All should have a chance to use it. Spa staff need to enforce time limits. Too bad that has to happen. Why can't people just be considerate of others and just use common sense.

 

As for the original post... it's hardly a disaster. There is more to the spa than the heated loungers, so I can't disagree with no refund. When in the spa, I've often arrived when the loungers were full. A few minutes waiting usually does the trick. No biggie. We can't all expect everything to be empty and waiting for us when we're on a ship with that many people.

 

I disagree with you. I am Elite+, earned my status through many enjoyable cruises, and if I want to read my book and take a snooze on a heated lounger - I am going to do it!

 

If you want the lounger, just arrive earlier.

[Fish Lover]

 

Everyone in the spa has paid for access, either in their cruise fare (Aqua) or by paying for a pass (everyone else).

 

That is the problem. The daily passes should be limited to a manageable number based on the demand from those that have pre-paid for it or earned it as part of their cruise.

[ShawninFL]

I am sorry you feel the way you feel. Maybe the spa manager could have told you different, I grant you that - however, basically I think she was correct.

 

The facilities of Persian Garden are not limited to the loungers (even if they are the only thing you were interested in). Thus the charge is not just for the loungers but also for steam room, aroma therapy room, relaxation lounge etc. They were all available to you. Just because you are only interested in using the loungers, you can not expect a lounger to be vacant or held vacant whenever you choose to use one. You just have to wait or go at times were you can be sure you do not have to wait.

 

All our Celebrity cruises were and are in AQ. Just mentioning S-class (because of the nicer Persian Garden) we cruised on Reflection, Silhouette, Eclipse... also to colder destinations like Iceland were the loungers were in high demand. Yes, we got there sometimes and all the loungers were already taken - just as others mentioned, we went to the steam room and waited. Never did we have to leave without being able to use them - after a bit of patience. At many other times the place was completely empty.

 

If I had to decide I would not grant a refund. Because of a simple point - by purchasing the pass you do not purchase the right to use a lounger only and no assigned times of use are part of the purchase. So the sellers part of the contract was fulfilled.

 

 

While you may be correct that the sellers part of the contract was fulfilled and is legally safe ground in refusing a refund, it's actually a very poor business decision. Not only did they lose a customer on the Reflection, they lost a customer at every one of the Canyon Ranch spas. And this customer always frequents spa services on a cruise. I would say they'll lose more than $88 on this cruisers next Celebrity Cruise alone. But even harsher for Canyon Ranch, is that this customer is doing what we all do when we have a bad experience with a business.......telling everyone.

[gold1953]

Love the heaters loungers but I always seem to arrive when someone is snoring.. Not tolerable at all. Not interested in saunas or steam rooms

[jaspersmommy]

I disagree with you. I am Elite+, earned my status through many enjoyable cruises, and if I want to read my book and take a snooze on a heated lounger - I am going to do it!

 

If you want the lounger, just arrive earlier.

 

 

Wow! And I'll bet you play cards at the Oceanview Cafe tables when there are none left open for people to eat at. :rolleyes:

[Fish Lover]

Wow! And I'll bet you play cards at the Oceanview Cafe tables when there are none left open for people to eat at. :rolleyes:

 

I know you intended to be sarcastic, but you are comparing apples and oranges.

 

Lying on the heated lounges is using them for their intended purpose. Playing cards at the buffet is nit the intended purpose. Also, the buffet is for everyone to enjoy equally. The Persian Garden is not.

[EdgeSport2.7TT]

We've always been told what the cancellation policy was when we've booked at the spa. I've always found them to be very accommodating when we've had to change appointment times. Once I even changed the type of treatment I wanted when I arrived for it (from some sort of wrap scrub to a standard deep tissue massage) with them not even batting an eye even though it was a lesser priced treatment. (Now this was 1 of 3 treatments I had booked during the entire cruise so perhaps that made them more open to changes) Maybe it's the way you approach a situation that determines the reaction you get in kind?

There were 4 of us there, three different technicians, not one of them mentioned the policy. One of our travelers actually booked a service, and not once did they tell them; we were all standing there. The first time we attempted to cancel the service, we went in with open expectations. However, having spent a total of about 10 years in the hospitality industry (including a 5 star private club/spa) I know how a manager is to approach these situations. However, Vivian felt her god complex and thought that because she had a british accent that she could pull a fast one. We are not talking about re-booking a treatment for another time. We are talking about someone was injured on the boat, and therefore could not receive a deep tissue massage.

[EdgeSport2.7TT]

Yes, there is someone above the spa manager. The marketing Director is a Celebrity ships' officer and s/he is responsible for all the vendor's on board. That includes how passengers are treated.

We even spoke with guest relations manager on the ship, who confirmed that there was no one above them at Canyon Ranch Spa. Not sure what would be in their interest not to "make it right".

[awhcruiser]

See post 16.

So what? It's illegal now to post in more than one place?

Edited December 20, 2016 by awhcruiser

[Z3RACERGIRL]

While you may be correct that the sellers part of the contract was fulfilled and is legally safe ground in refusing a refund, it's actually a very poor business decision. Not only did they lose a customer on the Reflection, they lost a customer at every one of the Canyon Ranch spas. And this customer always frequents spa services on a cruise. I would say they'll lose more than $88 on this cruisers next Celebrity Cruise alone. But even harsher for Canyon Ranch, is that this customer is doing what we all do when we have a bad experience with a business.......telling everyone.

 

 

 

100% correct.

[hcat]

If they did this, I for one, would be furious. This is exactly like the pool lounges. If you are lying in it, it is in use. This is a perk given to Aqua guests and it should not be limited in use. What they shouldn't do is sell day passes unless there is ample space available for additional use. Limiting use so that they can sell more is tantamount to double dipping.

 

We always sail AQ...(also E plus) and use the PG , free saunas, and spa services frequently.,.The heated loungers are quite limited in number, just like the special showers, so it is not expected someone will be using it like a pool lounger...esp if they are also using the various rooms,.They are heated and elevate blood pressure so using it beyond a certain time not the best idea,. They are nice to soothe sore bones and promote relaxtion but not really like a pool lounger...

 

But I agree they should not oversell passes....

Edited December 20, 2016 by hcat