Holland vs. Norwegian?

[Travelcat2]

Interesting discussion - especially since HAL if considered a "premium" cruise line and "NCL" is mainstream. One big issue, in my opinion, is children. There will likely be many more children sailing on NCL than on HAL (depending of course the time of the year).

 

I have had heard that the food on NCL has improved quite a bit in the last year and am still hearing comments from HAL customers that their food has gone downhill.

[kelmac]

You noted that HAL's Pinnacle Grill was better than ever, then went on to say that NCL's EXTRA PAY restaurants are the only places you eat. The fact is: HAL's MDR beats NCL's hands down - as does their Lido.

 

It is possible to have an enjoyable cruise on HAL on basic fare, while if you want decent food and reasonable service, without putting up with the serious crowding on NCL, you have to buy the extras... while sailing with thousands of people who insist on referring to the drinks package they paid for as giving them "free drinks".

 

I agree that HAL's MDR and Lido are better than NCL"s MDR and buffet. But for just under $20 a day pp you can eat in one of NCL's alternative restaurants and the food is superior to anything HAL offers, except the Pinnacle Grill.

The space ratio of HAL"s ships compared to NCL's is not that different.

82,000 ton Westerdam has a space ratio of 42.8 and NCL's Jewel is 93,500 tons and has a space ratio of 39.4.

I've cruised HAL the same amount of times as you, and I enjoy their product, but NCL offers more of what I want, with better cuisine to boot.

 

HAL's older tired fleet is no longer a premium line. Celebrity, Azamara, Oceania and NCL are all on an upswing, leaving all the Carnival brands behind. Even the stock price reflects this trend.

 

There was a day when we used to alternate between Celebrity and HAL.

 

Enjoy!

Kel:)

[Travelcat2]

HAL's older tired fleet is no longer a premium line. Celebrity, Azamara, Oceania and NCL are all on an upswing, leaving all the Carnival brands behind. Even the stock price reflects this trend.

 

There was a day when we used to alternate between Celebrity and HAL.

 

Enjoy!

Kel:)

 

You bring up a good point about HAL probably no longer being a premium cruise line. From what I've read, Celebrity and Princess are still in that category while Oceania, Viking Ocean and Azamara have reached premium-plus (or luxury lite) status due to their semi-all-inclusivity. On Azamara, Viking Ocean and Oceania there is open dining, no cost for soft drinks, water, etc. and on Oceania (not sure about the other two cruise lines), you can take any amount of alcohol that you wish onboard - as long as you only drink it in your cabin. If you take it with you to dinner, there is a $25 corkage fee.

 

If anyone can afford Azamara, Viking Ocean or Oceania (Oceania includes airfare), it is really worthwhile. IMO, there is no comparison between these three cruise lines and HAL or NCL even though NCL is a sister company to Oceania and Regent (Regent being a true luxury cruise line).

 

Note: Except during the summer and school holidays in the U.S., children are not exactly welcome on these luxury or luxury lite cruise lines. It is more of a grown-up adventure. However, most cruise lines build their ships for families so there are plenty off choices (Disney, NCL, Royal Caribbean, Carnival, etc.)

Edited January 26, 2017 by Travelcat2

[wordsjustfly]

We are an NCL family, and when we cruise usually stay in for Haven suite, or something like a deluxe penthouse suite.

 

The Haven is amazing because it's like a ship within a ship. You honestly do not have to go outside of the haven if you don't want to. With NCL the Butler's are the best of the best.

 

When we sailed we stayed at the very front of the ship – our first cruise it was dead nine I think our cabin number was 9500. And the other two times I think were towards the front if not at the very front.

 

The beds are nice they are king size and the mattresses are lovely. I do know that HAL predominately cruises with the over 55 crowd. There are more kids and families on an NCL cruise but you know we've never had an issue with kids on any cruise we been on. We have purposely stayed away from Carnival just because we are no longer in our 20s and 30s and we just don't party like that anymore. I guess we are farts now.

 

I don't think you can go wrong with either cruise line :)

 

 

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[Aquahound]

HAL's older tired fleet is no longer a premium line.

 

I'm pretty sure cruise line categories aren't a matter of opinion. HAL may not feel like a premium line to you anymore, but it doesn't change the fact it still is.

 

Thanks to everyone for your responses. I'm new to writing here so this is a learning process for us...

- We are "older" by age (68 and 70) but not in spirit

- We are relatively new to cruising life - we've cruised with Princess in Alaska, the Caribbean, and most recently in the Baltic in a mini-suite and have felt that generally we arrive as guests and leave as cargo although our experience on the Regal Princess in 2016 was much better - and we are booked on Oceania for a Mediterranean cruise in May

- We are interested in trying a smaller ship to experience the differences as we believe that smaller ships are likely to get closer in than larger ships like Princess has

- The itineraries of HAL and NCL are mostly the same with the differences being that HAL includes an extra day in Buenos Aires, Cockburn Channel, Glacier Alley, and Canal Sarmiento whereas NCL includes Puerto Madryn, Moraleda Channel, an extra sea day, and Puerto Chacabuco - both have the same other ports including the Falklands (weather permitting of course).

- Our travel agent has found a forward facing penthouse suite on the Norwegian Sun and a Neptune Suite on Holland’s Zaandam.

- We are interested in seeing penguins and whales and other wildlife if possible.

- Comfortable beds are a must

- We like good service, but doesn't have to be stuffy

- We want good views from our cabin

- Good food is important; we are very infrequent buffet diners.

- Cape Horn is a bucket list cruise for my husband

 

The things that jumped out at me most in this were the comfortable beds, good service and good food. For those reasons, I have no doubts when I recommend HAL over NCL for you.

[navybankerteacher]

We are an NCL family, and when we cruise usually stay in for Haven suite, or something like a deluxe penthouse suite.

 

The Haven is amazing because it's like a ship within a ship. You honestly do not have to go outside of the haven if you don't want to. With NCL the Butler's are the best of the best.

 

When we sailed we stayed at the very front of the ship – our first cruise it was dead nine I think our cabin number was 9500. And the other two times I think were towards the front if not at the very front.

 

The beds are nice they are king size and the mattresses are lovely. I do know that HAL predominately cruises with the over 55 crowd. There are more kids and families on an NCL cruise but you know we've never had an issue with kids on any cruise we been on. We have purposely stayed away from Carnival just because we are no longer in our 20s and 30s and we just don't party like that anymore. I guess we are farts now.

 

I don't think you can go wrong with either cruise line :)

 

 

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Of course, if you are paying premium prices for the Haven - which is essentially First Class on a two (perhaps more) class ship - you will, and should, have a preferred experience. But comparing apples to apples, HAL offers distinctly superior comfort, food, passenger space, and service for the basic fare. I have not sailed Neptune on HAL, because I find their basic offering to be perfectly adequate-- and far superior (with the exception of entertainment) to what is offered on NCL - and this comes from having repeat, and recent, experience on both. While some HAL ships are older, they have new ones joining the fleet and, sadly, have phased out some of their older, reasonably sized, ships. NCL, on the other hand is focusing on much larger new-builds - which contribute increasingly to the two-class atmosphere.

[Aquahound]

Of course, if you are paying premium prices for the Haven - which is essentially First Class on a two (perhaps more) class ship - you will, and should, have a preferred experience.

 

I never really understood the whole "ship within a ship" concept. If someone wants to pay a premium to be in an area that's a "ship within a ship," why not just book a nicer ship? :confused:

[SuiteTraveler]

I never really understood the whole "ship within a ship" concept. If someone wants to pay a premium to be in an area that's a "ship within a ship," why not just book a nicer ship? :confused:

 

To have the best of both worlds. Many who stay in The Haven still use all the amenities of a mega ship...or their kids do.

[doxielover47]

From what I am seeing online on ncl.com, it doesn't look like the Norwegian Sun has the Haven area being referenced?

[Travelcat2]

I would not enjoy being in a premium/luxury part of a mainstream cruise line. By the time you pay for The Haven, airfare, alcohol, tips (not sure if any of these items are included), you could sail on a luxury cruise line (or luxury-lite where only a minimal amount of alcohol is included).

 

Nowadays there are so many new ships that sailing on old ships (thinking of HAL), isn't too appealing.

[navybankerteacher]

I would not enjoy being in a premium/luxury part of a mainstream cruise line. By the time you pay for The Haven, airfare, alcohol, tips (not sure if any of these items are included), you could sail on a luxury cruise line (or luxury-lite where only a minimal amount of alcohol is included).

 

Nowadays there are so many new ships that sailing on old ships (thinking of HAL), isn't too appealing.

 

Why the fascination with the new? If accommodations, food, service, and general ambience are right (which I find to be the case on HAL - particularly on their aging beauty: Prinsendam) what possible difference does age make?

[doxielover47]

I think you would be fine on either line based on your ages.

 

The only concern with the forward Penthouse on the NCL ship is the possibility of high seas going around Cape Horn through the Drake Passage which is the most notorious area in the world for high seas. Even Charles Darwin got famously seasick in the Drake Passage. Notoriously this area can either be calm as glass or it will be as it is most of the time which is crazy rough. So, definitely go prepared. Do you use Trans Derm Scops already? If not, you might want to discuss getting these with your doctor. As far as the forward Penthouse, yes, that would be great, except on the day you are in the Drake Passage when it will be a challenge as the front of the ship typically feels more movement than even the back of the ship. Remember to keep your knees bent and only walk when the movement of the ship allows for it. Hang on with one hand in the shower and be extra careful getting dressed - in fact, if you can do it while seated or lying down, it will be safer than trying to get dressed standing up. I've had incidents where I got pitched head first into a closet while dressing during high seas. LOL! The most important thing is to hang on at all times - even when using the toilet. What we typically do is get dressed and then head midship for the day with our IPADs and just stay there all day long. It's not the most fun or comfortable day at sea, (many times I've wondered what the heck I was doing being on a ship in high seas) but once things calm down again (usually by the next day) it's like it never happened and you forget about it.

 

As far as NCL goes, the beds in suites are very comfortable and the service is excellent for suite guests - it's almost like being on a completely different cruise than the regular guests. The crew will really go out of their way to please you. Here is a video of the NCL Sun Forward facing penthouse:

 

 

Between the butler, cabin steward (NCL always assigns the best to the suites) and concierge you will receive a much higher level of service than on HAL. With your butler, you will NEVER need to go to the buffet. The suite guests dine in one of the specialty restaurants for breakfast and lunch and it is AWESOME or you can have your butler bring you anything you want as long as the venue is open. You can even order off-menu items. For breakfast, there is a huge cold buffet for suite guests and then you can also order hot items off the menu. They serve French press coffee as well. Typically suite guest will start out with fruit, cereal, yogurt, smoked salmon and then order an omelet, Belgian waffle, pancakes, or other hot breakfast items. There is an excellent menu for lunch as well. You will be well taken care of. Then your butler will automatically bring by snacks around 4:30 - 5pm. You can place a standing order - we tend to ask for tea sandwiches and a cheese plate and then have dinner later in one of the restaurants. But if you prefer, your butler can bring you dinner from any restaurant that is open in addition to the suite menu. You will have a DVD player in your suite, a pillow menu, fresh flowers, seashell bath salts, coffee maker, robes, slippers, welcome aboard sparkling wine and a large bottle of water, upgraded bathroom amenities, binoculars. Really NCL goes all out to make sure their suite guests are pampered. You get escorted embarkation and escorted debarkation. If you choose to self disembark, the concierge will take you off the ship.

 

Here's the Zaandam Neptune Suite, which is quite nice as well.

It comes with sparkling wine and bottled water and complimentary mimosas served with in-room breakfast. They have upgraded bathroom amenities and a new coffee espresso maker, complimentary corsage and boutinier, flower arrangement on embarkation and there is the Neptune Lounge where you can get snacks. You can also get express embarkation and debarkation. They will send a daily snack if you request it from the concierge. One other amenity is free laundry throughout your voyage which is very nice to have. There is concierge service but no butler service.

 

Having cruised with and without the butler service in suites, I think we prefer the suites with the butler service as there is more personal interaction, service and really, the butlers on NCL are quite nice and engaging people who go out of their way to please their guests, but this is something you need to decide for yourselves. Our first suite ever was on the HAL Oosterdam in her maiden year and while the suite was nice, other than more space and a larger bathroom with a walk in shower and separate tub, it was just a larger room - nothing special about it. We found the cruise energy rather laconic and the dining room food was IMO quite bland. The service in the MDR was nice, though. The shows were OK, nothing really of interest. The next time we had a suite it was on the NCL Jade and I have to admit it was night and day different having the butler. Since then we have been in a suite on the RCCL Allure of the Seas and a few Carnival ships and also a Celebrity ship and none of these had butler service and I noticed the difference in feel for the cruise. NCL ships feel energetic and the staff is usually quite enthusiastic.

 

Think the information I've given you over and consider what you prefer. I don't really think you could go wrong with either ship. To me the big difference is really the butler service and specifically whether you think you would use it or not and also the suite guest breakfast and lunch (it is usually held in one of the specialty restaurants). The other difference is in how NCL operates. Whereas HAL has traditional cruise dining, NCL has the specialty restaurants and everyone makes reservations and does their own thing each night. Weigh it out and consider what suits you best. Look at the videos of the suites and consider what you prefer. I'm sure you will make the right decision for you! Have a wonderful cruise! This should be really very special no matter which ship you choose!

:)

 

Thanks for the extensive help! Although we have never been seasick having chartered many sailboats in our past, we'll likely take your advice on taking along some type of preventive seasickness medication. We haven't tried any before, so your recommendation is Trans Derm Scops? Also, do you think the forward facing penthouse view is as good as a starboard side balcony view? We've never had a forward facing cabin before. Thanks!

[cruisemom42]

 

Nowadays there are so many new ships that sailing on old ships (thinking of HAL), isn't too appealing.

 

Everyone is different, but based on my own experiences on newer and older ships, I can think of a few reasons to prefer the older ones.

 

-- Older ships are often smaller, with fewer passengers and a better space ratio.

 

-- Also, because they are smaller, they often have more interesting itineraries to ports of call that bigger, newer ships cannot easily use.

 

-- There seems to be a trend on newer ships toward smaller balconies.

 

-- Older ships tend to have better promenade decks. (New ships being built are moving away from wide, covered promenade decks, it seems...)

 

-- This is entirely anecdotal, but people seem to behave better on older, smaller ships, perhaps because there's a greater chance that the person you cut in front of in the buffet line will be seated next to you at the show that night.

[navybankerteacher]

Everyone is different, but based on my own experiences on newer and older ships, I can think of a few reasons to prefer the older ones.

 

-- Older ships are often smaller, with fewer passengers and a better space ratio.

 

-- Also, because they are smaller, they often have more interesting itineraries to ports of call that bigger, newer ships cannot easily use.

 

-- There seems to be a trend on newer ships toward smaller balconies.

 

-- Older ships tend to have better promenade decks. (New ships being built are moving away from wide, covered promenade decks, it seems...)

 

-- This is entirely anecdotal, but people seem to behave better on older, smaller ships, perhaps because there's a greater chance that the person you cut in front of in the buffet line will be seated next to you at the show that night.

 

Agree completely - especially with your last point. I suspect there might also be that sense of anonymity people have when in a crowd of thousands that makes them feel comfortable about leaving their civilized instincts at home.

 

You hardly ever will see one person alone throwing a trash can through a shop window, but when you have several hundreds "expressing" themselves, that action is not so rare.

[SadieN]

Longer cruises, especially during the regular school calendar will have just about the same demographic. An older crowd with a few school age kids.

[Travelcat2]

My post regarding newer ships has to do with stability at sea and condition of the cabins. I am all for smaller ships with decent size cabins. The cruise line that we most often sail on (a luxury cruise line) debuted a ship in July, 2016. They seem to have taken into consideration all customer requests and did their best to meet them. The bathrooms are larger (and have more places to store things), the closet is larger, balcony is larger, etc. We would only sail on a ship with under 1,200 people so that may be a consideration.

 

Although we sail on a luxury cruise line, if any cruise line simply listened to what their passengers wanted and did their best to meet or exceed their desires, that cruise line would be at the top of everyone's list. NCL is the mainstream cruise line under the umbrella (Oceania and Regent being the other two cruise lines). While I have thought of them as being the bottom of the barrel for years, I suspect that things have already started improving (especially in the area of food) and that their new ships will be better than Carnival, Royal Caribbean and possibly even HAL. Onlly time will tell.

[GeezerCouple]

:)

 

Thanks for the extensive help! Although we have never been seasick having chartered many sailboats in our past, we'll likely take your advice on taking along some type of preventive seasickness medication. We haven't tried any before, so your recommendation is Trans Derm Scops? Also, do you think the forward facing penthouse view is as good as a starboard side balcony view? We've never had a forward facing cabin before. Thanks!

 

We've been in NCL Haven suites and also non-Haven suites, and also on more upscale lines.

 

We do enjoy the more upscale, but they don't always have the itinerary we want or the schedule we need, etc.

 

The NCL Butler service has been extraordinary, with one exception.

But we are usually in the higher-level suites, not the PH suites, so that may affect the level of service.

 

We were on the Sun last May/June from Vancouver to Seward, Alaska, and we had the forward Owners Suite, which is forward facing, with a huge panoramic view.

It was AMAZING.

(We think it's more like a DOS, but no one asked for our input on categories...)

We did miss the Haven area (which the Sun doesn't have), but because our suite was large, and with that perfect view, we just didn't leave it very much. We had a lot of meals served, all while looking ahead. We just LOVE being able to look "ahead" and see where we are going, whether there is some specific view, or just the beautiful sea. :)

We went for the view and the relaxation, and a few special excursions, plus a few extra days in Alaska.

 

Because of that, we've booked the same OS on the Sun for the South America cruise in the future.

 

We had remarkably good weather and peaceful seas, so we can't comment on what it would be like in heavy seas.

(Neither of us have ever been seasick, but we'll travel with some meds just in case. And we'll try them at home first, to make sure there aren't any unexpected adverse effects.)

 

We have not been on any mega-ship, with or without a Haven, and we doubt we'd enjoy that. But if it were to be the only way to do a certain itinerary, we'd at least consider it.

 

If you have any more questions, send us a message at our email address shown below.

[doxielover47]

Thank you!

 

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[doxielover47]

Are you looking for a quiet, laid back cruise where they are not always in your face selling stuff? Are you prepared to spend money to eat in the specialty restaurants? You you want a fairly relaxed experience but with a reasonable number of activities on board?

 

Norwegian has more pay restaurants than the others and, from what I'm hearing, it can be difficult to get into the included restaurants when you want to eat. That's a big downer for me.

 

HA does cater to an older demographic and usually has good entertainment. They are not as pushy as some of the others when it comes to selling things. But they don;t have anything like as many organized activities for younger guests. However, they are also more relaxed about some things.

 

If you are looking for activities for the younger set, why not try Princess. We did this cruise a few years ago with them and were mostly very happy.

 

We are looking to try out a smaller ship than Princess. We were on the Regal Princess last August and it was awesome, but we think a smaller ship may be able to get closer in than a large ship like the Regal.