Stuck in Hurricane aftermath - Can't get to Ship!

[Loonbeam]

And this is how I read the situation too...

 

It's perfectly ok to measure your own level of risk and price accordingly. I get very different coverage when I am driving to a port for a short cruise versus flying for a longer one and have decided to forgo it as well. This risk is informed by the fact that the cruise line or airline etc will not issue refunds without a waiver or unless they cancel/change per the terms of the contract I signed. Period.

 

 

The key is when you forgo insurance, you also are agreeing to self-insure, i.e. eat the loss and that needs to be recognized as a fact of life, regardless of how unplanned the scenario is...

 

I feel bad for the OP, but they assessed the risk (I hope) against the cost, chose against it, and now are facing the consequences of doing so, and deserve exactly the same treatment/process as anyone else missing a cruise for any reason should get in their circumstance, because that's the way the system is designed, fair or not.

 

Totally ok is saying "I don't get trip insurance because there is such a small chance of a loss that I am willing to take the loss if it does happen."

 

Totally idiotic is saying "I don't get trip insurance because there's such a small risk of disaster but if there is a disaster and I can't go, I am going to be very unhappy with the cruise line if they don't give me a credit or refund my money. There must be some way to get my money back because it's very unfair otherwise and people should have sympathy for me."

[FLcruisergrl]

I'm confused. I get it, they lost their business, and their home has damage. But there are flights (either in Florida, or elsewhere up the coast - a drive away). There's nothing preventing them from boarding up the house, checking if they can still use a FLA flight, or high-tailing it north to another city where they can book alternative flights. From NCL's perspective, they CHOOSE not to take the cruise. They CHOOSE to stay home & deal with the damage now, instead of post-cruise. Why should NCL take the loss for their choice?

 

 

 

 

It exists to save people when they encounter disaster, misery or illness.

 

 

Stephen

 

 

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You clearly have no idea what water intrusion damage in a hot, humid environment is like. Board up your house and leave for a week or two and be prepared to completely knock it down due to mold. Take care of it right away and you have a chance of saving much of it. I'm not saying OP's friends shouldn't have purchased insurance, but there really is no choice.

[Maverick61]

Insurance policies definitely do not exist to protect consumers. Insurance policies exist to enrich insurance companies. It is the same as the single-payer vs. market insurer debate that is going on in Congress right now regarding health insurance.

 

Health insurance is currently so expensive because we need to price in profits for the insurance companies AND extremely high compensation for all of the insurance company executives. If we took those two factors out, we could insure people quite cheaply, as Medicare and even Medicaid do.

 

The same goes for vacation insurance. If the coverage was offered as a public service, the rates would be lower (and a higher percentage of claims would get paid). To be clear, I am not talking about any company providing trip-cancellation insurance at a loss. Just talking about breaking even instead of profiting.

 

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You really do not understand the insurance market nor do you understand business

 

Medicare does not insure people cheaply. It costs taxpayers over $10,000 annually per Medicare beneficiary. That is about $4,000 more than the $6,000 my company pays for much, much better individual coverage

 

Medicaid also does not insure people cheaply. What it does do is pay providers a pittance hence many providers do not participate

 

So I guess in your utopia, all insurance company executives and personnel should work for free and no company should ever make a profit. Hmmm, good luck finding a work force. Good luck recovering from a bad year when you have no profits from a good year to fall back on.

 

You have a lot to learn

[Maverick61]

Totally ok is saying "I don't get trip insurance because there is such a small chance of a loss that I am willing to take the loss if it does happen."

 

Totally idiotic is saying "I don't get trip insurance because there's such a small risk of disaster but if there is a disaster and I can't go, I am going to be very unhappy with the cruise line if they don't give me a credit or refund my money. There must be some way to get my money back because it's very unfair otherwise and people should have sympathy for me."

 

Agreed - and beyond totally idiotic is saying "I don't get trip insurance because there's such a small risk of disaster but if there is a disaster and I can't go, I am going to be very unhappy with the cruise line if they don't give me a credit or refund my money. So I am going to complain on a message board and see if anyone has any idea of loopholes I can exploit."

 

It is simple - if people want to protect themselves, buy insurance. if not, assume and live with the risk. And I say that as someone who has been on multiple cruises and has always chosen to assume the risk and not buy coverage

[tulch]

I have passed this suggestion on to them - thank you!

 

 

I received an email today from NCL regarding their new insurance coverage for those who are post-final payment. I don't know the details as my PCC is on vacation until next week. But perhaps your friends can still qualify. It's only $25 per person and I doubt it covers much, but at that price, something is better than nothing.

[gravitar]

I received an email today from NCL regarding their new insurance coverage for those who are post-final payment. I don't know the details as my PCC is on vacation until next week. But perhaps your friends can still qualify. It's only $25 per person and I doubt it covers much, but at that price, something is better than nothing.

If I recall correctly, my OFF said it only covers you after the cruise begins for medical and evacuation issues.

 

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[gravitar]

If I recall correctly, my OFF said it only covers you after the cruise begins for medical and evacuation issues.

 

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PCC, sorry unable to edit.

 

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[sjbdtz]

Insurance policies definitely do not exist to protect consumers. Insurance policies exist to enrich insurance companies. It is the same as the single-payer vs. market insurer debate that is going on in Congress right now regarding health insurance.

 

 

My point was that if insurance didn't save some people from their risks, nobody would buy it, and the industry would dissolve. So it's driven by consumer desire to mitigate against risk. And it accomplishes that. Since it's not entirely a socialist thing, the companies providing this risk coverage include a profit layer in their premium calculations. But they don't solely exist to enrich companies.

 

 

Insurance is like socialism - it's a shared risk pool, where your premiums may be significantly lower than your benefit, as somebody else who paid a premium may not have needed to make a claim. Exact same premise as the Canadian Healthcare system.

 

 

You clearly have no idea what water intrusion damage in a hot, humid environment is like. Board up your house and leave for a week or two and be prepared to completely knock it down due to mold. Take care of it right away and you have a chance of saving much of it. I'm not saying OP's friends shouldn't have purchased insurance, but there really is no choice.

 

Fair point - but one could potentially spend Tues & Weds dehumidifying, Thursday driving to some new departure airport, Friday in flight, and be there for Saturday. Just saying, from NCL's point of view, they OPTED to not cruise - which is well within their rights - but NCL shouldn't be expected to carry the cost of that opt-out. For full disclosure, I buy insurance for almost everything. On my Iceland trip I bought CDW insurance, even though my credit card said they would have covered it. :/

 

 

Stephen

 

 

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[FLcruisergrl]

My point was that if insurance didn't save some people from their risks, nobody would buy it, and the industry would dissolve. So it's driven by consumer desire to mitigate against risk. And it accomplishes that. Since it's not entirely a socialist thing, the companies providing this risk coverage include a profit layer in their premium calculations. But they don't solely exist to enrich companies.

 

 

Insurance is like socialism - it's a shared risk pool, where your premiums may be significantly lower than your benefit, as somebody else who paid a premium may not have needed to make a claim. Exact same premise as the Canadian Healthcare system.

 

 

 

 

Fair point - but one could potentially spend Tues & Weds dehumidifying, Thursday driving to some new departure airport, Friday in flight, and be there for Saturday. Just saying, from NCL's point of view, they OPTED to not cruise - which is well within their rights - but NCL shouldn't be expected to carry the cost of that opt-out. For full disclosure, I buy insurance for almost everything. On my Iceland trip I bought CDW insurance, even though my credit card said they would have covered it. :/

 

 

Stephen

 

 

.

 

You're right, from NCL's point of view, it's definitely an opt out. I buy insurance for everything as well, because with my dumb luck, the one time I don't buy it...it would be nice if NCL would let them reschedule, rather than cancel and lose everything. I wish it was as easy as dehumidifying for a few days- it generally involves ripping out carpet, cutting out drywall, basically demolishing anything porous that gets wet. Remember, it's not just salt water or rain water...it's contaminated water!

[victory2020]

If they used Citibank credit card for payment they have basic insurance for such situations.

[tonit964]

I personally am a frequent cruiser however this is for a friend...

 

We are here in Florida, a "little storm" named Irma came to visit. We are now part of FEMA's documented storm victims.

 

 

We (and my friends) are without power and have home damage. They were scheduled to leave on Baltic Cruise this Saturday - ALL flights were cancelled/rearranged - my friends can not leave if they wanted to!!

 

 

Now I know ALL about "cruise protection" - please, lets's have some sympathy - leave it out of the comments....

 

NCL told them to "pound sand" for any refunds or credit what so ever -

 

 

Any sympathetic advice/contacts etc. they should speak with in regards to NCL being a little more understanding during the nightmare they are already dealing with?

 

 

TIA

 

 

We always purchase travel protection for our cruises. Thank goodness we have never had to use it.

 

It really irritates me when people don't purchase insurance to save a few bucks, which is really what it amounts to, and then when something goes wrong, want the cruise lines to give them a refund. If the cruise lines give out refunds, what's the point of insurance?!

[Son of a son of a ...]

Insurance popcorn fest? The non-existent mods should clean this thread up.

[alreadypacked]

I personally am a frequent cruiser however this is for a friend...

 

We are here in Florida, a "little storm" named Irma came to visit. We are now part of FEMA's documented storm victims.

 

 

We (and my friends) are without power and have home damage. They were scheduled to leave on Baltic Cruise this Saturday - ALL flights were cancelled/rearranged - my friends can not leave if they wanted to!!

 

 

Now I know ALL about "cruise protection" - please, lets's have some sympathy - leave it out of the comments....

 

 

NCL told them to "pound sand" for any refunds or credit what so ever -

 

 

Any sympathetic advice/contacts etc. they should speak with in regards to NCL being a little more understanding during the nightmare they are already dealing with?

 

 

TIA

 

Robbysbabe,

 

So sorry to hear of your friends' plight...

 

Wish I had a helpful solution for your friends, but I'm sorry I don't.

 

Empathize with them totally though--we live in South Florida and just weathered Irma too. Sounds like we made out a little better than your friends, but it was still tough. No power for 4 days--100 degree temps in the house--barely two hours sleep each night. DH worked 36 hour shift with police department the night storm hit. Had fridge on generator but still lost a lot of food. Got power back, then double water main break, so no water! Water came back finally... Still have friends without power. The list goes on...

 

Many outside a hurricane zone just have no idea...

 

Most in Florida fared better than those in the Caribbean, and my thoughts and prayers and donations are with them... But...still...it was very hard on all of us in FL and still is on many.

[perditax]

I've been watching this thread since it started and mulling it over (don't claim to have answers). It does seem to me that we all make choices, the company and the individuals. People choose to live in hurricane-prone states or on vulnerable islands. Ocean-based business choose to operate during peak hurricane season (although they benefit from a double standard--many CC members think people are dumb to cruise during hurricane season, but those same members would never fault the cruise lines for providing those "dumb" cruises in the first place).

 

People choose to not buy travel insurance.

 

Ultimately the cost of all these choices is getting spread around. Even if the cruise lines don't bend their policies for the (undoubtedly many) people affected by the storm in their own home towns, they've obviously lost a lot of revenue in the last month.

 

The problem with the theory that it would be a nice gesture for the company to work with someone in this situation, is that I suspect that they would have to make many such gestures. And at that point, if someone can't make their cruise because their home is damaged in some other way (fire, flood, tornado, blizzard?) is the gesture necessary then too, or only for hurricanes? If only for hurricanes--why? Slippery slope.

[alreadypacked]

I've been watching this thread since it started and mulling it over (don't claim to have answers). It does seem to me that we all make choices, the company and the individuals. People choose to live in hurricane-prone states or on vulnerable islands. Ocean-based business choose to operate during peak hurricane season (although they benefit from a double standard--many CC members think people are dumb to cruise during hurricane season, but those same members would never fault the cruise lines for providing those "dumb" cruises in the first place).

 

People choose to not buy travel insurance.

 

Ultimately the cost of all these choices is getting spread around. Even if the cruise lines don't bend their policies for the (undoubtedly many) people affected by the storm in their own home towns, they've obviously lost a lot of revenue in the last month.

 

The problem with the theory that it would be a nice gesture for the company to work with someone in this situation, is that I suspect that they would have to make many such gestures. And at that point, if someone can't make their cruise because their home is damaged in some other way (fire, flood, tornado, blizzard?) is the gesture necessary then too, or only for hurricanes? If only for hurricanes--why? Slippery slope.

 

Can you really fault people for living in a hurricane-prone area anymore than, say, a north-easter-prone area, an earthquake-prone area, or a tornado-prone area?

 

Not sure that many of "us" in/on "hurricane-prone states/vulnerable islands" have specifically "chosen" to live here, in the same vein that "Ocean-based businesses" have chosen to operate here. I see your point, but...

[rayness]

Can you really fault people for living in a hurricane-prone area anymore than, say, a north-easter-prone area, an earthquake-prone area, or a tornado-prone area?

 

Not sure that many of "us" in/on "hurricane-prone states/vulnerable islands" have specifically "chosen" to live here, in the same vein that "Ocean-based businesses" have chosen to operate here. I see your point, but...

 

 

 

I agree. I live in Florida and of course after the hurricane, my family is saying move elsewhere. Everywhere else has issues too. I visited California and was in a major earthquake. Had several tornadoes and earthquakes in the Midwest. For anyone saying there are no earthquakes in the Midwest there is a fault called the New Madrid fault. Blizzards up north and I don't like snow.

 

I feel bad for OP's friend. I didn't purchase trip insurance for my first cruise and thank goodness I didn't need it. Lesson learned by their friends now I'm sure. Hope their hurricane recovery isn't long and drawn out.

 

 

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[sanger727]

OP, NCL isn't being generous to those affected by the hurricane. THEY are the ones who cancelled the cruises while the hurricane was in the are. Since the cruise line cancelled those sailings they ate the cost by refunding everyone. They are also offering the future cruise credit to try to retain business since there were many people flying in from completely unaffected areas to take their vacation with them which was now cancelled.

 

Your friend's situation is entirely different. Your friends are traveling to an area that is in no way affected by the hurricane and they are the ones choosing to cancel. I understand that in their minds they have no choice and that may be. The one who cancels is the one who eats the fare.

 

As far as the person offered the 75% future cruise credit. That person has the cruise line insurance. I wouldn't expect that to be offered to your friends. The policy is that if you cancel for a covered reason - and i think they would be - you get a refund. If you cancel for a non-covered reason, you get a future cruise credit. That isn't extended to everyone.

 

 

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[sjbdtz]

Insurance popcorn fest? The non-existent mods should clean this thread up.

 

 

Why, is insurance a taboo topic? If you don't like it....there are threads you might enjoy more.

 

 

 

Stephen

 

 

P.S. If they're non-existent, they won't be able to clean it up.

 

.

[SeekingKillerWhales!]

Robbysbabe,

 

I am so sorry about your friends loses. I can't imagine going through such a horrible thing, and losing a business on top of significant damage to a home is terrible. Lots of us are sending good energies their way (and to all the survivors.)

 

Although they will lose their cruise fare, they will get back port fees, taxes, prepaid gratuities and excursions. This will help and might be a significant amount. I think everyone will hit a time in life (home, auto, liability, health and travel) where we wish we were better issued. I'm sorry they have to go through all this, but I hope that by staying home they are able to salvage a good portion of their old life. And I think everyone here (ok, almost everyone, there's a sociopath in every crowd) really does feel bad for them. But some of us are more left brain (often me) and think we are helping by being brutally honest. Please don't hold it against the posters who are simply posting facts as they know them. I can tell you are really hurting for your friends, and they are lucky to have good friends. Hopefully, something good will help to make up for all the bad they just went though.

 

And to be honest I would still try a nicely worded letter in a month or two, after the cruise line changes slam is over, detailing why they could not make the trip and asking for a future cruise credit. The answer might be no, but niceness sometimes works. Right now they have to be so stressed and overloaded trying to change ports and dealing with all the issues I don't think I would send it in immediately.

[HokiePoq]

Sorry for all you and your friend are going through. Most people don't have a clue about the destruction a hurricane does unless they have personally witnessed it. I for one would never leave my storm damaged home for a cruise. My cousin had an NCL cruise booked when Hurricane Sandy took over her home. She HAD insurance and at first had a hard time getting her money back because of stipulations in her cruise insurance contract. Eventually after some pushing on her part she was able to get her money back. As everyone has stated here without insurance I highly doubt your friend will get any money back.

 

This is so true. You must be there to mitigate damage....bleach any flooded area, pull out wallboard, discard ruined items, etc. Our experience was not nearly as bad as those who've suffered from Irma, but it took us several months to recover from hurricane damage....no HVAC for several months. Two feet in the garage, nine feet in the back yard, lots of junk washed into yard, trees, etc.....All of these require a lot of hard work to recover. A cruise is out of the question.

That said, a contract is a contract and NCL cannot be expected to absorb all damages resulting from natural disasters.

We don't travel during hurricane season....it happens all too often that we need to be home and elevate our belongings and move our cars. Never happened the first decade we lived where we are but climate has changed and now we flood more often.

Very informative thread....Significant point made that even being insured does not help a lot with a natural disaster. I guess the very expensive "cancel for any reason" insurance is the only thing that would cover in this case. (Sorry for mentioning the I word)

Wishing the OP and friend a good recovery.

[Son of a son of a ...]

Why, is insurance a taboo topic? If you don't like it....there are threads you might enjoy more.

 

 

 

Stephen

 

 

P.S. If they're non-existent, they won't be able to clean it up.

 

.

 

The thread is off course and has broken down to posters lobbing motar fire at each other.

[CI66774]

OP - I'm so sorry this has happened. I hope everything works out.

 

Insurance is a gamble. Those who buy it understand the odds are nothing will happen and they're spending that money for the possibility it does. Those who don't buy essentially think the risk is worth it. That's the gamble. We insurance buyers "lose" when we buy insurance but don't need it and those who don't buy "lose" when they don't buy but end up needing it. If cruise lines gave refunds/credits against policy, no one would buy insurance. It would be "insurance for suckers." That's not how it works. If you gamble and lose - you lose.

[Loonbeam]

Then there is the flip side. You can find out a few days before travel that you AND your spouse both bought insurance for the same trip - at least we are definitely covered.

[garycarla]

Amazing how this thread keeps getting new posts, most of which say the same thing.

 

"So sorry"

 

followed by:

 

"If you buy insurance, you are set. If you opt out, no refund."

 

And on and on and on.