Cuba Confusion on HAL

[BlackJack2]

I spoke with a HAL rep about Cuba and she said thatyou must take an 8-hour tour, (HAL or private) in order to go back ashore onyour own. Then I spoke with a HAL shoreexcursion rep and she said that after an 8-hour tour that you could NOT leavethe ship and go ashore on your own. Shealso said that every guest onboard had to leave the ship, while in Havana, anddo an 8-hour tour. All the shore excursionsposted for our sailing are no longer than 7½ hours long.

 

Who is correct? Can anyone shed any light on this or clear up the confusion?

[sail7seas]

I spoke with a HAL rep about Cuba and she said thatyou must take an 8-hour tour, (HAL or private) in order to go back ashore onyour own. Then I spoke with a HAL shoreexcursion rep and she said that after an 8-hour tour that you could NOT leavethe ship and go ashore on your own. Shealso said that every guest onboard had to leave the ship, while in Havana, anddo an 8-hour tour. All the shore excursionsposted for our sailing are no longer than 7½ hours long.

 

Who is correct? Can anyone shed any light on this or clear up the confusion?

 

 

Because I c ould not get reliable satisfactory ory answers to questions such as yours, is one of the main erasons I backed off booking a cruise that s tops in Cua. HAL has not yet so far as I can tell made reasonab le, necessary arrangements for tours thta meet mandatory U.S. regulationns. Until and only if they do, will I think o f sailing HAL to Cuba. As a solo senior woman I have no inention of going off on my own for an 8 hour tour in Cuba. I rarely use HAL tours but in this case, I would have to or for the firrst time ever I might,...........

[twodjs]

Neither answer sounds correct to me. We were on NCL to Cuba a month ago and we were required to have people-to-people interaction. We booked two ship sanctioned tours (we were there overnight), but neither was more than 4 hours. We could get off the ship, go through Cuba's security at the dock with our passports (they collected the visas first time through) anytime during our two-day stay and we could do as we wished throuhout the city. Many enjoyed the vintage cars by the hour or had meals at the local restaurants without any problem. No reason to think HAL would be any different!

[Krazy Kruizers]

Neither answer sounds correct to me. We were on NCL to Cuba a month ago and we were required to have people-to-people interaction. We booked two ship sanctioned tours (we were there overnight), but neither was more than 4 hours. We could get off the ship, go through Cuba's security at the dock with our passports (they collected the visas first time through) anytime during our two-day stay and we could do as we wished throuhout the city. Many enjoyed the vintage cars by the hour or had meals at the local restaurants without any problem. No reason to think HAL would be any different!

 

Great information.

Thank you.

[sail7seas]

Neither answer sounds correct to me. We were on NCL to Cuba a month ago and we were required to have people-to-people interaction. We booked two ship sanctioned tours (we were there overnight), but neither was more than 4 hours. We could get off the ship, go through Cuba's security at the dock with our passports (they collected the visas first time through) anytime during our two-day stay and we could do as we wished throuhout the city. Many enjoyed the vintage cars by the hour or had meals at the local restaurants without any problem. No reason to think HAL would be any different!

 

My expeience has been HAL seems vague as to ship's tours and having a palatable com bination that meets U.S. regulation. IF tyey, indeed have it, they have been unreliable about transmitting that information to prospective cruisers. The HAL cruise(s) to Cuba I looked at also over nights in Havana.

 

Miami?

[DAllenTCY]

I sailed to Cuba in May on the NCL Sky. The only restriction that I encountered was that I was to keep my paperwork for 5 years. I had no tours, no contact person, nothing. My visa was available at check-in at the Miami pier.....and I must say that my passport was never stamped although I left the ship at least 4 times in 2 days in Havana.

 

I was free to walk about and I felt extremely safe... and welcomed by all of the people that I met. I bought souvenirs and cigars to bring home and took hundreds of photos.

 

Don't be scared away just because of a few rumors on this board.

 

I suggest good footwear.....not sandals.....the infrastructure still is less than ideal. The tour coaches were as nice as anywhere I've ever been....clean, wi-fi, toilet, air conditioned, and with very large tinted windows.

 

David

[Debbie1029]

I believe that requirements for Americans traveling to Cuba changed a few weeks ago.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

[twodjs]

Checking further, I'm finding that different cruise lines are handling access to Cuba differently, or perhaps the restrictions have tightened significantly since we traveled there on NCL in Oct. On the Viking Crusecritic thread, their ship does not have permission to dock in Havana (don't know why), so they are spending three days in another Cuban port and bussing their guests several hours each way to Havana for official tours and an overnight in a Havana hotel. The person posting described the Viking arrangement as a blanket visa with restrictions, and that guests would not be permitted to explore on their own. Perhaps HAL has a similar arrangement, or maybe the new restrictions from the U.S. threw a monkey wrench into the mess. On our NCL cruise, each passenger was issued an individual visa with fewer regulations. This certainly is confusing for everyone! I hope you get a chance to go. We would do it again in a heartbeat!

[iancal]

Don't understand all these rules about tours etc.

 

Havana is safe-day and night. At least it was a few years ago when we did a B&B in Havana. As above, wear sturdy shoes. People are extremely friendly and obliging. Try to arrange a private tour with a local. You will get far more interesting info by doing this.

 

And if you have time....visit the cemetary in Havana.

[ernieb]

We recently booked a 17 day Panama canal cruise from FLL to SFO. When I first researched it I'm pretty sure it's first stop was in Havana. However, once booked there are two sea days with the first stop in Cartagena, Columbia. Has anyone else noticed Cuba being recently dropped?

[larn796]

I am booked on the Veendam January 3 - 10, 2018. Their are only 2 ship tours listed. Both on the first night in Havana. One is the El Canonazo tour that is listed at 2 hours and the other is the Tropicana listed at 4 hours. These are the only ship tours listed on my itinerary. I have been checking the listings regularly since September.

[iflyrc5]

Our DIL did an NCL cruise to Cuba this summer that was an overnight. She said that many folks did private tours. They could get on and off the ship when ever they wanted and there was no requirement on how long they had to be on shore.

[wander]

US GOVERNMENT "RULES" KEEP CHANGING!!! No need to listen to folks like me who went late last Spring, or even folks went there this fall. AND, no wonder HAL reps cannot keep up. Even by keeping up with current US rules/restrictions, etc. then there is what will actually be required once there.

 

In either October or November (2017) our President made more severe restrictions on Americans and visiting Cuba. Since last winter they have changed several times, getting looser with each change UNTIL the most recent changes. Now we are almost back to as strict regulation as 2016, but not quite. At least Americans can still openly visit there now.

 

SO, I WOULD NOT BLAME HAL for the confusion -If you want to go - go and don't worry about anything until you actually get there and know what is ENFORCED then. (I personally would look for a smaller ship experience with more time in Cuba (we were onboard for 10 days, on land in Cuba for 7 pretty full days). In each port there was at least one organized tour to take (generally they were excellent!!!) and then we had hours and hours to wander around on our own, take their version of taxis to other places/areas, etc. I spent most of my non-tour time wandering around the cities and towns on my own - NEVER HAD ANY CONCERNS of my safety - only wondering about if US or Cuban officials were watching me. (Answer - not that could figure out, but to them I probably was just another old lady tourist.)

 

I LOVED my time visiting Cuba in terms of a cultural and historical experience. The Cubans were most kind to us and interested in sharing information on daily life there.

 

In summary - who knows what travel to and in Cuba will be like next Spring. Many thought I should wait and no next year as things were expected to open up even more - will guess what -they seem to be going backward 100% due to governments from what I can see - - not the average citizens.

[dwgreenlee]

I spoke with a HAL rep about Cuba and she said thatyou must take an 8-hour tour, (HAL or private) in order to go back ashore onyour own. Then I spoke with a HAL shoreexcursion rep and she said that after an 8-hour tour that you could NOT leavethe ship and go ashore on your own. Shealso said that every guest onboard had to leave the ship, while in Havana, anddo an 8-hour tour. All the shore excursionsposted for our sailing are no longer than 7½ hours long.

 

Who is correct? Can anyone shed any light on this or clear up the confusion?

 

The US Government sanction rules on Cuba changed on 09 Nov 2017. HAL, nor any Carnival Corp. ship, has called on Cuba since the rules change - nor do I think any policy updates have been published.

 

Two changes (at least) affect cruise visitors:

 

First, individual people-to-people travel is no longer allowed. You must take a "full time" tour provided by an entity "subject to US Jurisdiction." Neither of the quoted terms are well defined in the context of a cruise visitor. There are other options for complying with the Cuba sanctions but the P2P is the most used by cruise visitors.

 

Second, you may not engage in a direct transaction (i.e. spend money) with any entity listed on the new "Cuba Restricted List" published by the State Department. Many hotels and other tourist facilities are on this list.

 

You can find all this information at:

https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/Programs/Pages/cuba.aspx

 

The cruise lines that have called on Cuba are converging to an industry standard solution of:

Option 1: You may take a ship's program that, in the opinion of their lawyers, will meet the new requirements, or,

Option 2: You may go off on your own assuming full individual responsibility for complying all of US Goverment regulations regarding the Cuba sanctions.

 

You will be required to sign an affidavit, at boarding, as to how you will comply with the sanctions. The extent that the cruise line will police these new rules is unknown except they will not let you board without the affiddvit. How the current administration will enforce the new rules is also unknown. The sanctions Law does provide for an individual cival penalty of up to $250,000.00 for violations.

[sail7seas]

My expeience has been HAL seems vague as to ship's tours and having a palatable com bination that meets U.S. regulation. IF tyey, indeed have it, they have been unreliable about transmitting that information to prospective cruisers. The HAL cruise(s) to Cuba I looked at also over nights in Havana.

 

 

Where did the NCL cruise to Cuba embark?

Miami?

......

[twodjs]

Yes, our NCL ship left from Miami. Wasn't going to go there, but this confusion is caused entirely by stupid, vague, constantly changing U.S. government regulations. It is not HAL's fault!

[Sea42]

Yes, our NCL ship left from Miami. Wasn't going to go there, but this confusion is caused entirely by stupid, vague, constantly changing U.S. government regulations. It is not HAL's fault!

Agreed. It probably drives HAL crazy too.

[Loreto]

I am booked on the Veendam January 3 - 10, 2018. Their are only 2 ship tours listed. Both on the first night in Havana. One is the El Canonazo tour that is listed at 2 hours and the other is the Tropicana listed at 4 hours. These are the only ship tours listed on my itinerary. I have been checking the listings regularly since September.

We are on the March 17th 11 day sailing on the Veendam. HAL Shore Excursions still lists a full compliment of tour offerings in Havana. The only tour previously offered for Cienfuegos was dropped. Final payment is next month and I hope something will be offered for Cienfuegos.

 

I hope that the roll call for the Dec. 22nd sailing will offer some feedback for the rest of us, and I hope this doesn't just turn into a HAL Caribbean cruise with no Cuba, which they can do legally, but I will be really annoyed .

 

Karen

[sail7seas]

We are on the March 17th 11 day sailing on the Veendam. HAL Shore Excursions still lists a full compliment of tour offerings in Havana. The only tour previously offered for Cienfuegos was dropped. Final payment is next month and I hope something will be offered for Cienfuegos.

 

I hope that the roll call for the Dec. 22nd sailing will offer some feedback for the rest of us, and I hope this doesn't just turn into a HAL Caribbean cruise with no Cuba, which they can do legally, but I will be really annoyed .

 

Karen

 

You seem to be realisic and knnow threre is the chanace Cuba could be canceled for any number of reasons. You have time to make a decision how much chance you are comfortable living with. I for one, will not be surprised if HAL c alls at c Cu ba are cancelled and this is only my per sonal opinion with no input from anyone at HAL 'in the know.' Stiil, a Caribean cruise in win er to almost anywhere is always welcome for most of us no matter the ports. Knowing you will be really annoyed does not change anything. :)

[nw gardener]

This is the response I got from HAL today re my question to them about doing a private tour. I booked June 16 by the way...

Hello,

According to the Cuban regulations, guests who booked before June 16, 2017 are allowed to book a privately arranged tour. If booked after June 16, 2017 you are not able to “self-certify” and must book a Holland America EXC tour while in Cuba.

Please let us know if you have any further questions.

Not sure how HAL can/will enforce this. I am booked on the Feb 28th cruise, not sure I will cancel or not at this point. Not happy that there are still no excursions listed for Cienfuegos and that HAL has not updated their website Q&A for Cuba yet under the new regulations, and no affidavit either to look at. I have a private tour booked in Havana, want to book a HAL excursion for Cienfuegos, but am very undecided right now.

 

[dwgreenlee]

There are two dichotomies here. The first, and most important, most cruise passengers are tourists and want to do tourist things - but tourism in Cuba, by US Persons, is a violation of US Law. Second, tens of thousands of US "tourists" visit Cuba every year but the US Government, in recent history, has applied the limited enforcement resources to action against only a few large entities. Thus, the real issue is not if US Visitors are violating US law but rather will your activities (individually or collectively) reach the level where the US Treasury chooses to take enforcement action.

 

Some people are locking on to the "support for the Cuban people" exception as a way to avoid the escorted tours, however, that exception has been on the books over the full history of the sanctions and has never been allowed for simple individual visitors - only those genuinely involved in humanitarian work.

[sail7seas]

There are two dichotomies here. The first, and most important, most cruise passengers are tourists and want to do tourist things - but tourism in Cuba, by US Persons, is a violation of US Law. Second, tens of thousands of US "tourists" visit Cuba every year but the US Government, in recent history, has applied the limited enforcement resources to action against only a few large entities. Thus, the real issue is not if US Visitors are violating US law but rather will your activities (individually or collectively) reach the level where the US Treasury chooses to take enforcement action.

 

Some people are locking on to the "support for the Cuban people" exception as a way to avoid the escorted tours, however, that exception has been on the books over the full history of the sanctions and has never been allowed for simple individual visitors - only those genuinely involved in humanitarian work.

 

 

I do not think t he need is meeting Cuba's wishes as much as it ist he necessity for U.S. travelers to Cuba to meet U.S. laws. When we return to U.S. we mustprrove to U.S. author ties we have met the requirements wha t we did while in Cu ba as to humanitarian work an d person to person interactions. with the people of Cuba.

 

I am sure HAL well knows the deteails of the requirements and the need to provide appropriate choices for U.S. cruisers. they seem tob e taking their time about arranging or announcing what tours h they will offer .

Edited November 28, 2017 by sail7seas

[dwgreenlee]

I do not think t he need is meeting Cuba's wishes as much as it ist he necessity for U.S. travelers to Cuba to meet U.S. laws. When we return to U.S. we mustprrove to U.S. author ties we have met the requirements wha t we did while in Cu ba as to humanitarian work an d person to person interactions. with the people of Cuba.

Correct. In fact, to comply with US law, the humanitarian work must support the Cuban people (as determined by US Treasury) but not the Cuban government (again as determined by US Treasury) - kinda hard to do as an individual.

[sail7seas]

Correct. In fact, to comply with US law, the humanitarian work must support the Cuban people (as determined by US Treasury) but not the Cuban government (again as determined by US Treasury) - kinda hard to do as an individual.

 

 

Yes, To spend any money on dinner or souvenieres, or4 whatever it is likely that money goes directly to the governemnt and not the Shopkeepr. the point is to help the people without enriching the government. Hard to do on one's own, as you say.

 

Am I correct in thinking we wer allowed to gbe in Cuba for years vutt could not spend any mmoney. How would one do that ? except i if one has family or good friends there.

Edited November 28, 2017 by sail7seas

[princeton12321]

I do not think t he need is meeting Cuba's wishes as much as it ist he necessity for U.S. travelers to Cuba to meet U.S. laws. When we return to U.S. we mustprrove to U.S. author ties we have met the requirements wha t we did while in Cu ba as to humanitarian work an d person to person interactions. with the people of Cuba.

 

I am sure HAL well knows the deteails of the requirements and the need to provide appropriate choices for U.S. cruisers. they seem tob e taking their time about arranging or announcing what tours h they will offer .

 

 

 

The US government or customs doesn't ask when you return about what you did or didn't do nor do they have the resources to even care for individuals. That's the reason for the affidavit. Clearing customs after being in Cuba is as easy as clearing it after a long weekend in London. Humanitarian work could easily be construed as spending money on lunch in a private family owned restaurant or even taking a box of toothpaste and giving them out to those in need. Again- no one will check what you did but you can always do something if it'll make you feel better about meeting the requirements.