Having your docs in hand

[ldubs]

What would you have the do?

 

And why is their age a factor?

 

The response to your first question has already been discussed. Obviously, there is great disagreement on what customer care should be expected.

 

I think you already know the answer to your second question.

[sparks1093]

Some bags don’t show up until hours after sailaway, you can’t blame NCL for not being able to locate a bag in a couple of hours or less. People are blaming those employees on the pier for not showing compassion or being helpful, but they don’t work for NCL.

 

The people at the pier are agents of NCL. The bags would still be on the ship even if they weren't at the cabin and those bags dropped off early in the process make in onboard soonest. After they are brought onboard they are sorted by the crew into bins designated by deck and area of the ship where they are going to be delivered. It is there that the bags could have been found with a bit of work, but I tend to agree with another poster that there was probably a break down in communication somewhere along the way.

[mjkacmom]

The people at the pier are agents of NCL. The bags would still be on the ship even if they weren't at the cabin and those bags dropped off early in the process make in onboard soonest. After they are brought onboard they are sorted by the crew into bins designated by deck and area of the ship where they are going to be delivered. It is there that the bags could have been found with a bit of work, but I tend to agree with another poster that there was probably a break down in communication somewhere along the way.

Why do you think they are agents of NCL? Those berths serve about a dozen cruise lines, do you think they all have employees standing by, waiting for their ships on certain days? Those on the ground work for the port.

[sparks1093]

Why do you think they are agents of NCL? Those berths serve about a dozen cruise lines, do you think they all have employees standing by, waiting for their ships on certain days? Those on the ground work for the port.

 

They are agents of NCL because they are representing the cruise line, which is why they are wearing NCL nametags. Doesn't matter who actually pays them.

[navybankerteacher]

They are agents of NCL because they are representing the cruise line, which is why they are wearing NCL nametags. Doesn't matter who actually pays them.

 

I think you are off here. Sure, the dockside luggage handlers are handling bags belonging to people boarding a NCL ship, but that is as far as it goes. Unless, of course, you also believe that taxi drivers who bring people to Lincoln Center to hear a performance of Aida are similarly "agents" of the Metropolitan Opera.

 

I have never noticed any of the shoreside porters taking my bags wearing any cruise line name tags.

[Markanddonna]

I believe that longshore men are the "agents" you are referring to. They may have ID, but they are not employees or agents of NCL. They typically try to get your bags from you as quickly as possible and put them on carts to transfer to the crew who bring them onboard.

 

We have rarely had our luggage delivered at the same time even though they were together when handed to the porters.

 

I'm really not at all happy that NCL decided to go way above and beyond. I think there is a point where a person becomes too old to travel alone, and they seem to think that the ship will give them special treatment because of their age.

 

BTW, I am definitely a senior citizen and because I tend to cruise with a predominantly older crowd (TA, TP, Panama Canal, etc), we have been witnessing the situations some older people get into because THEY ARE TOO OLD TO TRAVEL ALONE. The last cruise involved a very frail old man in a wheelchair on a wild tender. His able-bodied travel companion was his elderly wife who was no help. Three crew members had to hold him while he screwed up enough courage to take that one step onto the tender. The crew (all think Asian men) were put at risk in order to meet the request to assist. I'm just saying there comes a time when we need to hang things up, and cruising by yourself when too old is one. I bet there is a whole different side to this story that we will never hear about.

[dsrdsrdsr]

What would you have the do?

 

And why is their age a factor?

It's a fair question, I suppose. There are a lot of times when people who are, shall we say, a little less fit than others - disabled, deaf, blind, mentally handicapped, etc., get special consideration. Should they? Should the world be for the fit, and the devil take the hindmost?

 

Sometimes, when people get older, they get slower, less physically agile, and less mentally agile too. They actually do start to take on characteristics of other people who are disabled for specific medical reasons not caused by old age. Now, if you don't want to cut old people a certain amount of slack, then how about the medically disabled? After all, when an older person gets on board in a wheelchair, who is to say that the disability is age related (and therefore can be ignored) or medical related (and therefore a relevant factor)?

[sparks1093]

I think you are off here. Sure, the dockside luggage handlers are handling bags belonging to people boarding a NCL ship, but that is as far as it goes. Unless, of course, you also believe that taxi drivers who bring people to Lincoln Center to hear a performance of Aida are similarly "agents" of the Metropolitan Opera.

 

I have never noticed any of the shoreside porters taking my bags wearing any cruise line name tags.

 

I'm not talking about the baggage handlers, I'm talking about the people inside the terminal checking people in, specifically the person that told the couple to have a seat, there's enough time to find your luggage.

[myfuzzy]

Don't supervisors exist in the terminal? For example, when I worked as a supermarket cashier, I have a customer which an issue came up...short of cash, wanted another item...something I could not handle, I called my supervisor, who came over and literally took that customer away from the line and handled them personally.

 

Did this person who was "supposed" to be checking them in, in finding out they had no passport, nor other forms of ID, did NOT call for a supervisor to come over and handle this situation personally, instead told them to "have a seat". IF said supervisor came over, did they not discover that the passports were indeed in the pocket of their bags WHICH was already being processed to be delivered to their cabin? IF the supervisor had a communication device, could they NOT have called for assistance from the baggage handlers to start a search for the bags. And do a step by step process by timing to find the location of the bags, if NOT on the dock, call for a supervisor on board to initiate the search.

 

Unfortunately, the ship sailed WITH the bags, did the cabin steward not notice the bags and the cabin sat empty? IF the cabin steward told HIS supervisor, wouldn't HIS supervisor call corporate to find out what they should do. Could they possibly sent the bags home from the first port...Doesn't UPS have world wide delivery?

 

Thanks to the media hype and all those folks who came to their defense, got all their money back, had a nice vacation in California with their Grand daughter, PLUS a free cruise....nice.

 

BTW, I am also a "senior citizen" I do have my own issues, but when I cruise, I make sure I have my passport and boarding pass in a secure place where I can grab them when I need them....I can leave my underwear at home, but Passport....#1 in my purse next to my credit cards and cash.

[navybankerteacher]

I'm not talking about the baggage handlers, I'm talking about the people inside the terminal checking people in, specifically the person that told the couple to have a seat, there's enough time to find your luggage.

 

The post to which I responded discussed taking the bags and getting them to the ship.

 

In any event, if the couple in question relied upon a temporary check-in clerk (regardless of name tags) rather than seeking some sort of person in authority, they clearly are too age- impaired to travel alone.

[sparks1093]

The post to which I responded discussed taking the bags and getting them to the ship.

 

In any event, if the couple in question relied upon a temporary check-in clerk (regardless of name tags) rather than seeking some sort of person in authority, they clearly are too age- impaired to travel alone.

 

I was inexact in my last couple of posts but the people that I am referring to as agents of the cruise line are the ones inside the terminal and the ones that interacted with the couple. As myfuzzy pointed out it would be expected that a supervisor would have gotten involved with this situation early on. I'm sure at some point in your Navy career you were involved somehow in bringing stores on a ship, a similar evolution to loading the bags. We didn't load everything onto the ship and then start putting it away, the stores were put away as soon as they got onto the ship and it was an all hands evolution. And if the skipper needed to know where a certain thing was one of the guys with the clipboards would at least have a general idea where it was and would be able to locate it rather quickly. It's the same way with the luggage- as soon as it's on the ship it gets sorted by destination, with the bags arriving earliest being done soonest. So instead of having to find a couple of bags in thousands they have to find a couple of bags out of hundreds. Still a chore but certainly a more manageable one.

 

And let's turn your last statement around, shall we- what kind of company relies on a temporary check-in clerk to assist people in a crisis? I don't think NCL does, so I don't think the couple was dealing with one.

[navybankerteacher]

 

...

 

It's the same way with the luggage- as soon as it's on the ship it gets sorted by destination, with the bags arriving earliest being done soonest. So instead of having to find a couple of bags in thousands they have to find a couple of bags out of hundreds. Still a chore but certainly a more manageable one.

...

I believe you have a misunderstanding of how things are done, and by whom, on a cruise ship. There are no dedicated luggage sorters/handlers. There are cabin stewards who AFTER THEY HAVE FINISHED CLEANING THE CABINS then go to the collecting areas where the luggage has been placed and stored - not in any order, but just as it was brought on board, and then bring it to the cabins - which, on NCL ships are often not ready until well after 1:00 PM.

 

Also, it is most likely that the bags brought on board first are delivered to the cabins later than those brought on after, because the later arrivals would be on top of, or at the edge of, the piles of bags - which are being held.

 

I agree that, in a perfect world, all cabins would be instantly readied as soon as vacated by debarking passengers, and that each bag as it was brought on board would be carried directly to the designated cabin --- but that just does not happen.

 

Finally - I agree: there should be some responsible, well-informed trouble-shooter in the processing area - who could have given the elderly couple a realistic situation report: possibly warning them that there might be a chance that their baggage might not be recoverable in time - but that is about as far as staffing might be expected to go.

[cruzeluver]

What an awful, horribly written article. Filled with such drama, hyperbole, designed to elicit a certain response (which appears to have worked on some).

 

Do If ell badly for the couple? Yes. But NCL did nothing wrong and owes them nothing. There are not different rules for older people.

[sparks1093]

I believe you have a misunderstanding of how things are done, and by whom, on a cruise ship. There are no dedicated luggage sorters/handlers. There are cabin stewards who AFTER THEY HAVE FINISHED CLEANING THE CABINS then go to the collecting areas where the luggage has been placed and stored - not in any order, but just as it was brought on board, and then bring it to the cabins - which, on NCL ships are often not ready until well after 1:00 PM.

 

Also, it is most likely that the bags brought on board first are delivered to the cabins later than those brought on after, because the later arrivals would be on top of, or at the edge of, the piles of bags - which are being held.

 

I agree that, in a perfect world, all cabins would be instantly readied as soon as vacated by debarking passengers, and that each bag as it was brought on board would be carried directly to the designated cabin --- but that just does not happen.

 

Finally - I agree: there should be some responsible, well-informed trouble-shooter in the processing area - who could have given the elderly couple a realistic situation report: possibly warning them that there might be a chance that their baggage might not be recoverable in time - but that is about as far as staffing might be expected to go.

 

The luggage distribution on the decks is done by the stewards but the sorting of the luggage down in the holds is done by other crew members (the ones I've seen are wearing blue or white coveralls). Turning the ship around is an all hands evolution and no one is idle. If it were that difficult to find the bags than the person in the terminal should never have reassured the couple that there was ample time and the bags would be found. Another thing the person in the terminal could have done but apparently did not was to tell the couple to try to obtain copies of their birth certificates while they were sitting there just in case the luggage wasn't found in time (another lapse in providing good customer service).

 

At the end of the day NCL finally did the right thing but instead of it costing them just a $2300 refund it cost them that plus a free cruise on top of it. I can understand NCL not wanting to delegate the decision to anyone in the terminal or on the ship, but this issue was elevated to corporate and even there the right thing wasn't done (and again I am only addressing this from a customer service viewpoint, not a legal one). And NCL didn't even have to offer a refund when the issue was elevated, the couple may well have been happy with a future cruise credit. In any event you and I won't agree on the issue which is fine since neither of us has a dog in the fight. Again, NCL had a customer service failure in this instance and that supersedes the grave mistakes that were made by the passengers.

[Barrheadlass]

What an awful, horribly written article. Filled with such drama, hyperbole, designed to elicit a certain response (which appears to have worked on some).

 

Do If ell badly for the couple? Yes. But NCL did nothing wrong and owes them nothing. There are not different rules for older people.

 

You should read this reporter’s other articles. Absolutely awful. Unfortunately for me, this was the first article I read in the Boston Globe on Sunday, I’m a subscriber. I felt sorry for these people, but do feel they needed to take responsibility for what happened. The on line comments were so absurd.

[myfuzzy]

You should read this reporter’s other articles. Absolutely awful. Unfortunately for me, this was the first article I read in the Boston Globe on Sunday, I’m a subscriber. I felt sorry for these people, but do feel they needed to take responsibility for what happened. The on line comments were so absurd.

 

 

I believe I saw that this "reporter" had a contact email under the photo. I am going to email him and tell him exactly how cruising works and his disservice to NCL and other current and potential cruisers who will use this article to their advantage.

[SRF]

The response to your first question has already been discussed. Obviously, there is great disagreement on what customer care should be expected.

 

I think you already know the answer to your second question.

 

No, I asked what YOU expected NCL to do.

 

And no, I do not know the answer. Are older people allowed to be stupid without consequences?

 

And BTW, age discrimination is against the law. So doing this for an older couple means you HAVE to do it for younger people. Or be sued and lose a lot more.

[SRF]

It's a fair question, I suppose. There are a lot of times when people who are, shall we say, a little less fit than others - disabled, deaf, blind, mentally handicapped, etc., get special consideration. Should they? Should the world be for the fit, and the devil take the hindmost?

 

Sometimes, when people get older, they get slower, less physically agile, and less mentally agile too. They actually do start to take on characteristics of other people who are disabled for specific medical reasons not caused by old age. Now, if you don't want to cut old people a certain amount of slack, then how about the medically disabled? After all, when an older person gets on board in a wheelchair, who is to say that the disability is age related (and therefore can be ignored) or medical related (and therefore a relevant factor)?

 

This was NONE of those situations.

 

They did not have their cruise documents in hand. PERIOD. Young, old, it doesn't matter.

 

But since I now meet most age requirements for being a senior citizen, sure, I DESERVE special treatment. Yeap, get out of my way at the elevator, and I MUST have a lounger held for me, even if I will not use it.

 

If you subscribe to this, where do you stop? What age? What situation?

[navybankerteacher]

 

...

 

But since I now meet most age requirements for being a senior citizen, sure, I DESERVE special treatment. Yeap, get out of my way at the elevator, and I MUST have a lounger held for me, even if I will not use it.

 

If you subscribe to this, where do you stop? What age? What situation?

 

So you do not believe that older people should not be held to normal standards? What is the cut -off age for no longer being expected to act like a grown up?

 

Also - shouldn’t everyone be allowed to bring their emotional support peacocks on planes?

 

And why should a cruise line be able to tell people what to wear in the dining room?

 

Do we really want/ need ANY rules- about anything?

[ldubs]

No, I asked what YOU expected NCL to do.

 

And no, I do not know the answer. Are older people allowed to be stupid without consequences?

 

And BTW, age discrimination is against the law. So doing this for an older couple means you HAVE to do it for younger people. Or be sued and lose a lot more.

 

OK, I'll give it a shot.

 

#1

There are many possible approaches that would have been better. For example, explain there is a good chance that the luggage can be found, but it is not a certainty. Explain what will happen if the luggage is not found. Offer that perhaps in the meantime other options should be explored like BC copies (OR explain that there are no other options if that is the case). Reach out to them occasionally with an update. Clearly communicate when it is known that the luggage is not found. Ask if they have a ride or someone they can contact. So maybe just about anything but walking away leaving them sitting there.

 

#2

Please go back and actually re-read my previous posts. I have not said NCL was at fault for denying boarding or that they should do a refund. I think I may have said the opposite. I do not like the way NCL treated these elderly people. I think NCL abandoned them. I'm sorry, but I think our elderly people deserve to be treated with care and kindness. Simple as that.

 

 

Good luck with your lawsuits. Enjoy cruising on NCL.

[sparks1093]

No, I asked what YOU expected NCL to do.

 

And no, I do not know the answer. Are older people allowed to be stupid without consequences?

 

And BTW, age discrimination is against the law. So doing this for an older couple means you HAVE to do it for younger people. Or be sued and lose a lot more.

 

No, young people are not a protected class (yet). Age discrimination applies to those over a certain age.

[myfuzzy]

This is another thing that had me scratching my (fill in blank). After processing 3000+ people onto the ship, terminal is empty, except for this elderly couple, now there's usually an hour or so between the last boarding and sail a way, did someone NOT go over to these people to see WHY they were still there? ALL personnel left the building with these two sitting there?

[sparks1093]

So you do not believe that older people should not be held to normal standards? What is the cut -off age for no longer being expected to act like a grown up?

 

Also - shouldn’t everyone be allowed to bring their emotional support peacocks on planes?

 

And why should a cruise line be able to tell people what to wear in the dining room?

 

Do we really want/ need ANY rules- about anything?

 

And sometimes companies need to do something for customer goodwill even if the contract and law is on their side. You don't think it applies in this case, I do. Know what? It doesn't matter, we don't get a vote, nor do we have any standing. (And I don't think age is all that material, anyone making this same mistake under these circumstances (i.e. being told to have a seat, we'll take care of it) should receive the same consideration. Does this open the door for potential abuses? Of course it does, but that's the price to be paid for having to deal with customers.

[ldubs]

No, young people are not a protected class (yet). Age discrimination applies to those over a certain age.

 

 

Yes, that was a very "loose" legal analysis of the situation to say the least. Next time I give up my seat on the subway, I better have a lawyer present. :D

[CruiseGal999]

OK, I'll give it a shot.

 

#1

There are many possible approaches that would have been better. For example, explain there is a good chance that the luggage can be found, but it is not a certainty. Explain what will happen if the luggage is not found. Offer that perhaps in the meantime other options should be explored like BC copies (OR explain that there are no other options if that is the case). Reach out to them occasionally with an update. Clearly communicate when it is known that the luggage is not found. Ask if they have a ride or someone they can contact. So maybe just about anything but walking away leaving them sitting there.

 

#2

Please go back and actually re-read my previous posts. I have not said NCL was at fault for denying boarding or that they should do a refund. I think I may have said the opposite. I do not like the way NCL treated these elderly people. I think NCL abandoned them. I'm sorry, but I think our elderly people deserve to be treated with care and kindness. Simple as that.

 

 

Good luck with your lawsuits. Enjoy cruising on NCL.

 

While your #1 is a lovely thought ... there are 2,500 passengers to assist, direct, hand hold, etc. It just isn't possible. The couple should have asked and asked and asked for updates.