Princess is Not What it Was in the Past

[Vineyard View]

I Respectfully disagree. Number of PAX does matter. It matters big time once in port. It matters from the crowds, the busses, the craziness that huge ships add to each and every stop. Nope. Can’t agree with you.

It might make a huge difference on board based on what cabin category you book and pay for, but that goes south once you step on Land.

I think it is great if you want a ship within a ship. A city on a ship. All the toys and fun attractions. It works for some and that’s okay. It is why there are so many options to meet so many different expectations.

But numbers of passengers on ships impacts the port experience. JMHO

[RDC1]

I would totally agree with your position on the Grand class - that would be the maximum pax size we will sail.

Passenger/ship size is a big priority for us. We all have our priorities where we need to draw the line in the sand.

It just seems after reading this thread that there are a lot of very unhappy Princess passengers who keep sailing on them. I also read those who do not feel this way and it makes sense to me why they continue. We have worked hard for our money, and if we find a product that doesn’t meet our expectations (not limited to cruise lines) to an acceptable level, I cannot imagine continuing to spend our money on that product. So yes, we are going on this next cruise with eyes open, but with a positive attitude. If it doesn’t meet the level that works for us, then no issue, time to move on. Why keep expecting change that won’t happen? Maybe it will cost more, but there are lots of options out there.

 

You had just as many saying that they were happy with Princess as you had saying that they were unhappy. Considering that only a few those that read CC bothered to comment, and only a small percentage of the cruising population ever visits CC, I would not draw the conclusion from such a small sample that there are a lot of very unhappy Princess passengers.

[RDC1]

I Respectfully disagree. Number of PAX does matter. It matters big time once in port. It matters from the crowds, the busses, the craziness that huge ships add to each and every stop. Nope. Can’t agree with you.

It might make a huge difference on board based on what cabin category you book and pay for, but that goes south once you step on Land.

I think it is great if you want a ship within a ship. A city on a ship. All the toys and fun attractions. It works for some and that’s okay. It is why there are so many options to meet so many different expectations.

But numbers of passengers on ships impacts the port experience. JMHO

 

 

The number of PAX matter in another very important way. It is the biggest driver of the cost efficiency of a given ship. As such more passenger mean the better ability to keep costs low and competitive.

 

The cruise industry has always been one of very significant capital investment requirements, with fairly limited pricing power and fairly tight profit margins. In many ways these last two years have been rather unique to the industry with low fuel costs, and a better than normal ability to raise prices.

 

Maintaining a profitable main stream cruise line, with competitive pricing means movement to larger ships.

[caribill]

I Respectfully disagree. Number of PAX does matter. It matters big time once in port.....But numbers of passengers on ships impacts the port experience.

 

Fully agree. And one problem is that "popular ports" such as Alaska ports and major Caribbean ports attract multiple Behemoths of the Seas at the same time. So even you go to one of these ports on a small ship, the on shore experience will be the same as if you were on the largest ship in the fleet.

 

The number of PAX matter in another very important way. It is the biggest driver of the cost efficiency of a given ship. As such more passenger mean the better ability to keep costs low and competitive. Maintaining a profitable main stream cruise line, with competitive pricing means movement to larger ships.

 

Very true that there is cost efficiency with a larger ship and, just as importantly, with a newer ship with more efficient designs for going on the water.

 

But I do not find that lower costs have lead to maintaining low pricing for customers. Today's cruise rates on Princess & its main competitors are for the most part up around 50% over just a couple of years ago when you look at basic per day rates except for possible last minute sales. The cruise industry sees its main competition as being land based vacations and as long as a cruise can costs less than a land vacation, pricing will reflect that. Carnival Corp, which owns Princess, says it tries to raise capacity a little bit less than the demand for its product grows. More demand with less growth in supply = higher prices for customers even as ships get more cost efficient per passenger. The record profits that CCL Corp and RCCL are earning shows that.

[susancruzs]

Expectations, I guess! I've cruised for 35 years, 6 cruise lines and never over set my expectations. I'm paying double what everyone else is, don't complain about it usually, don't expect things to be perfect. I'm on a ship, thousands of people, yes, my experience is important but big picture, it isn't totally about me.

 

All the food things I read have increased, complaints about lines, tendering, nickle and dimming, why is this? I'm on vacation, for myself I can't get worked up about some of things people worry and stress over. On my 30 day Emerald cruise in March, I sat with nice people the whole time, but I can't tell you the number of times they mentioned the Emerald was too beige, some areas too worn, dwelling on carpets, decor. You are in So. America, great ports, excellent speakers on the cruise and you talk about carpets???

[Pierlesscruisers]

Some like big ships, some don't. Some like ships with exciting things to do, some don't. Some prefer formal dining, some don't. The fact is tastes differ. That doesn't mean that anybody is wrong or one cruise line is bad, it just means that tastes differ, that's all. If everybody liked Cruise Line A it would mean that it would be almost impossible to cruise on that line because it would sell out the first day and all the other lines would go out of business. Great for Line A but since it would be a seller's market, prices would probably skyrocket.

 

 

 

Just be glad that taste's do differ so we can probably all find a line that offers something to suit our wants and needs.

 

 

Tom

[Vineyard View]

You had just as many saying that they were happy with Princess as you had saying that they were unhappy. Considering that only a few those that read CC bothered to comment, and only a small percentage of the cruising population ever visits CC, I would not draw the conclusion from such a small sample that there are a lot of very unhappy Princess passengers.

 

This is totally Valid. I Thank you for pointing this out.

[Vineyard View]

Fully agree. And one problem is that "popular ports" such as Alaska ports and major Caribbean ports attract multiple Behemoths of the Seas at the same time. So even you go to one of these ports on a small ship, the on shore experience will be the same as if you were on the largest ship in the fleet.

 

 

 

Very true that there is cost efficiency with a larger ship and, just as importantly, with a newer ship with more efficient designs for going on the water.

 

But I do not find that lower costs have lead to maintaining low pricing for customers. Today's cruise rates on Princess & its main competitors are for the most part up around 50% over just a couple of years ago when you look at basic per day rates except for possible last minute sales. The cruise industry sees its main competition as being land based vacations

 

Totally agree. Economies of scale with larger ships for the cruise lines. Also Totally agree that large mega ships in ports impact us when we sail on smaller ships. These weigh in when we are making our decisions whether to land base or sail vacations depending on where we want to travel. Many locations due to pure geography lend towards sailing. Then you are stuck with the impact.

[Prettay128]

It is only by coming to cruise critic that I have gotten educated that the cruises that I have enjoyed are really mass market, nickel and dime experiences, that have been poorly managed and organized, with lousy service and poor food.

 

I not only take CC comment with a grain of salt, but with an entire salt mine.

 

Hear, Hear!

I spend a lot of $$ for my cruise vacations. I'm not going to walk on the ship looking for problems, and if problems

arise like they so often do in life, I work around them. My good time is my responsibility.

[RDC1]

Fully agree. And one problem is that "popular ports" such as Alaska ports and major Caribbean ports attract multiple Behemoths of the Seas at the same time. So even you go to one of these ports on a small ship, the on shore experience will be the same as if you were on the largest ship in the fleet.

 

 

 

Very true that there is cost efficiency with a larger ship and, just as importantly, with a newer ship with more efficient designs for going on the water.

 

But I do not find that lower costs have lead to maintaining low pricing for customers. Today's cruise rates on Princess & its main competitors are for the most part up around 50% over just a couple of years ago when you look at basic per day rates except for possible last minute sales. The cruise industry sees its main competition as being land based vacations and as long as a cruise can costs less than a land vacation, pricing will reflect that. Carnival Corp, which owns Princess, says it tries to raise capacity a little bit less than the demand for its product grows. More demand with less growth in supply = higher prices for customers even as ships get more cost efficient per passenger. The record profits that CCL Corp and RCCL are earning shows that.

 

 

Keep in mind that fares dropped significantly during the down turn 2009-2014. So yes they are up somewhat over the past few, but not as much when you look at long term trends. Traditionally cruise ship pricing power has been limited to inflation plus 1%. During this same time look at the changes in hotel rates. They have more than doubled compared to 2009/10 time frame. Especially in peak tourism areas.

 

Also ship size is a long term impact, the adding of some new ships and retiring old ones have a relatively slow process. So if you look at average ship size of the Princess fleet you will see that change by year to be relatively small. So the size efficiency is an important factor, but more of a strategic one, not tactical.

 

The record profits are largely a matter of 3 things. 1. Relatively low fuel costs 2. Strong economy 3. Distribution of routes into higher profit areas and less dependence on Caribbean. These past few years have represented a golden era as far as cruise line revenue and profitability is concerned with profitability running over twice the historic numbers.

[Thrak]

Princess may not be what it was in the past but then neither am I. I overheard someone the other day while visiting the Grand Canyon. As we were hiking one of the short trails there was a group off to the side resting and I head one man say, "The older we get the better we were". :p

[PrincessLuver]

"The older we get the better we were". :p

 

So true.....I do not care what Princess WAS....i just want to keep sailing Princess and we enjoy all of their ships and their overall product...albeit....a few more then others.....there are always the nay sayers in life and they would not probably be happy on a private watch if Princess had them....:halo:

[c-boy]

Expectations, I guess! I've cruised for 35 years, 6 cruise lines and never over set my expectations. I'm paying double what everyone else is, don't complain about it usually, don't expect things to be perfect. I'm on a ship, thousands of people, yes, my experience is important but big picture, it isn't totally about me.

 

All the food things I read have increased, complaints about lines, tendering, nickle and dimming, why is this? I'm on vacation, for myself I can't get worked up about some of things people worry and stress over. On my 30 day Emerald cruise in March, I sat with nice people the whole time, but I can't tell you the number of times they mentioned the Emerald was too beige, some areas too worn, dwelling on carpets, decor. You are in So. America, great ports, excellent speakers on the cruise and you talk about carpets???

There's the spirit.

[caribill]

 

The record profits are largely a matter of 3 things. 1. Relatively low fuel costs 2. Strong economy 3. Distribution of routes into higher profit areas and less dependence on Caribbean. These past few years have represented a golden era as far as cruise line revenue and profitability is concerned with profitability running over twice the historic numbers.

 

The Caribbean has been the weak spot in CCL Corp and RCCL Corp earnings reports. This is due to the effects of multiple hurricanes last year that devestated some of the main cruise islands. Some ports have fully recovered and some others will need years to get back to normal for people living there.

 

But in general, the earnings reports say that advance bookings "are at higher levels with higher ticket pricing."

[RDC1]

The Caribbean has been the weak spot in CCL Corp and RCCL Corp earnings reports. This is due to the effects of multiple hurricanes last year that devestated some of the main cruise islands. Some ports have fully recovered and some others will need years to get back to normal for people living there.

 

But in general, the earnings reports say that advance bookings "are at higher levels with higher ticket pricing."

Even if you ignore the impact of the hurricanes last year and look at long term fare structures the Caribbean ranks traditionally near the bottom when it comes to revenue per day per passenger. One of the biggest weaknesses that RCL had for years was its concentration in the Caribbean compared to CCL. If you follow cruise line market statistics the percentage of capacity in the Caribbean has been dropping for years and continues to do so. The major revenue boost from the Caribbean is very high occupancy rates during school holiday periods that tend to take ships to absolute max.

 

The increased cruise line distribution around the world, has been one of the factors in their increased pricing power.

[wolfie11]

I Respectfully disagree. Number of PAX does matter. It matters big time once in port. It matters from the crowds, the busses, the craziness that huge ships add to each and every stop. Nope. Can’t agree with you.

It might make a huge difference on board based on what cabin category you book and pay for, but that goes south once you step on Land.

I think it is great if you want a ship within a ship. A city on a ship. All the toys and fun attractions. It works for some and that’s okay. It is why there are so many options to meet so many different expectations.

But numbers of passengers on ships impacts the port experience. JMHO

 

I totally agree that the number of pax is a big deal for me in port. One reason I don’t do the Caribbean. I fear for Alaska as well. With the Royal, Bliss, Joy, and Ovation all there in 2019, it will be a real challenge for the ports to cope. For example, every other Wednesday, the Royal, Joy, Bliss, and Millenium will be in Skagway. That’s around 16,000 people plus another 6,000 crew in a town of 800 people! The mind boggles....

[MrMan]

Fully agree. And one problem is that "popular ports" such as Alaska ports and major Caribbean ports attract multiple Behemoths of the Seas at the same time. So even you go to one of these ports on a small ship, the on shore experience will be the same as if you were on the largest ship in the fleet.

 

 

 

Very true that there is cost efficiency with a larger ship and, just as importantly, with a newer ship with more efficient designs for going on the water.

 

But I do not find that lower costs have lead to maintaining low pricing for customers. Today's cruise rates on Princess & its main competitors are for the most part up around 50% over just a couple of years ago when you look at basic per day rates except for possible last minute sales. The cruise industry sees its main competition as being land based vacations and as long as a cruise can costs less than a land vacation, pricing will reflect that. Carnival Corp, which owns Princess, says it tries to raise capacity a little bit less than the demand for its product grows. More demand with less growth in supply = higher prices for customers even as ships get more cost efficient per passenger. The record profits that CCL Corp and RCCL are earning shows that.

 

 

 

Your correct the “Behmouth of the Seas” does attract a premium in pricing due to popularity along with cost savings inherent with economies of scale. Due to these two facts of popularity with customers and cheaper to run can ensure more large ships in the future

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[RDC1]

Your correct the “Behmouth of the Seas” does attract a premium in pricing due to popularity along with cost savings inherent with economies of scale. Due to these two facts of popularity with customers and cheaper to run can ensure more large ships in the future

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

Keep in mind that the new, huge ships, loaded with amusement park feature have also been successful in attracting an new set of passengers.

 

A couple of key facts about the cruise industry

 

Only 53% of the target North American market (or 24% of the whole U.S. population) have ever taken an ocean cruise.

All the cruise ships in the entire world filled at capacity all year long still only amount to less than ½ of the total number of visitors to Las Vegas

 

The cruise industry, or at least segments of it, will continue to do what they see helps them expand the breadth of the market.

[EastBay Cruisers]

All the food things I read have increased, complaints about lines, tendering, nickle and dimming, why is this? I'm on vacation, for myself I can't get worked up about some of things people worry and stress over. On my 30 day Emerald cruise in March, I sat with nice people the whole time, but I can't tell you the number of times they mentioned the Emerald was too beige, some areas too worn, dwelling on carpets, decor. You are in So. America, great ports, excellent speakers on the cruise and you talk about carpets???

 

 

Very much agreed. Thank you for this excellent post.