Man overboard on Norwegian Star

[Omega1]

Here’s my simplistic take on the stats:

2000 to 2018 inclusive is 19 years. Total number of overboards 319 minus those from ferries, etc is 248 from cruise ships. Average over 19 years is 13.05 per annum. Slightly more than one per month as fshagan originally stated.

[old nutter]

The National Geographic article had the sentence -

Overboard incidents are most commonly reckless or deliberate accidents induced by drunkenness.

Whilst I can accept the point about drunkenness, what is a ‘deliberate accident’ - surely an oxymoron.

Emergency services in the UK used to race to "Road Traffic Accidents (RTAs)" They then decided that few of these were actually "accidents", because it turned out they were caused by deliberate action, albeit incorrect and/or dangerous. Nowadays they race to Road Traffic Collisions, so you would now hear of them "racing to an RTC" instead.

 

As far as I understand, there are statistically almost zero Overboard Accidents from any type of passenger vessels, they are Overboard On-Purposes :D Incidents yes, accidents no.

[PelicanBill]

The National Geographic article had the sentence -

Overboard incidents are most commonly reckless or deliberate accidents induced by drunkenness.

Whilst I can accept the point about drunkenness, what is a ‘deliberate accident’ - surely an oxymoron.

This reflects our terrific preoccupation with avoiding blame, especially in media reports. It sure is an oxymoron. But as we've seen in this thread, there are those who want to grant forgiveness and only say it's tragic, and those who want to find root cause and determine who is to blame. Especially when it has monetarily affected hundreds of others. My favorite "accident" is child drownings. Nearly all those are actually cases of parental failure in my book. Same for the incident in which one where a child locked his sibling in the washing machine and started it.

 

...That's 248 overboard incidents on cruise ships in 11 years, or an average of 22.54545454545455 ...

 

I applaud your attempts to bring math and science to bear. But expecting someone to dispute the math any moment! See next comment, I could not multi-quote 3 things.

[PelicanBill]

... Going overboard is more rare than being struck by lightning.

 

There's something we've missed in this crowdsourced analysis. The statistic on how many ho overboard is one thing. How about your chances of experiencing a major inconvenience or costs due to SOMEONE going overboard on your cruise? Calculate the number of people affected by the overboards and I bet the statistic is now something more interesting. And a super good reason to buy trip insurance that covers this sort of delay. (Feeling bad for the bloke a page or two back who has been denied already.)

 

...As far as I understand, there are statistically almost zero Overboard Accidents from any type of passenger vessels, they are Overboard On-Purposes :D Incidents yes, accidents no.

 

Thank. you. perfect!

[Starboard2]

Sent from my iPad using Forums

[hal2008]

And realistically there's no recourse for this. If you have no travel insurance (or it doesn't cover it), you're out the money. If you have travel insurance, costs like this - incurred by someone else's negligence - get charged for in higher rates.

 

The jumper isn't going to pay for it. "Sorry about that, I was having a bad moment and I only have $300 to my name."

 

If you are US based then may want to look into the following:

 

a) Credit card to which cruise fare was charged to and their free trip delay benefits (some like citi covers after 12 hours delay but few others kicks in after 4 or 6 hours delay)

 

b) Even basic travel insurance should have a section on trip delay. May want to spend 5 minutes reading actual policy. The problem is unless you have "return air" clause, your SOL because travel delay insurance is geared towards temporary lodging/boarding or even in some cases, value of airline fare "lost" rather than cost of alternate tickets. However, some do pay for airline fees for changing dates.

 

For cruise vacation needing air transport, flying in a day early is a common advice. But equally important is to give plenty of buffer for delayed arrival of ship (It happens more frequently than one expects - This particular ship, NCL Star has been late by 6+ hours late returning into Venice more than once this summer alone)

[Markj]

To quote the Prime Minister Disraeli,

"lies, damned lies, and statistics."

;)

[Omega1]

To quote the Prime Minister Disraeli,

"lies, damned lies, and statistics."

;)

...or “truth isn’t truth”.:confused:

[sfaaa]

The jumper isn't going to pay for it. "Sorry about that, I was having a bad moment and I only have $300 to my name."

 

And how much did this drama queen cost Croatian taxpayers with this rescue effort? Croatia is not exactly a very wealthy country.

[fshagan]

Here’s my simplistic take on the stats:

2000 to 2018 inclusive is 19 years. Total number of overboards 319 minus those from ferries, etc is 248 from cruise ships. Average over 19 years is 13.05 per annum. Slightly more than one per month as fshagan originally stated.

 

That is correct. And my point was that we don't see "press releases" on all of those incidents, so we shouldn't automatically expect one in this case. If there's some other compelling reason for NCL to make public comments on it they will. But not if this is like the approximately 17 overboard cruise ship passengers in 2017 or the 6 - 8 so far this year.

[fshagan]

You should have read the data a bit more carefully. The totals you are directing us to are from 2000 to 2018. That's 18 years. Just add up the Cunard numbers, they're pretty low.

2000 - 2005 : 3

2006: 1

2015: 1

2016: 1

 

Total 6. Over 18 years, not 11.

 

Whatever your point is, you've lost it between your misstated stats and defensiveness. Going overboard is more rare than being struck by lightning.

 

You lost me there. Are you saying that between 2000 and 2016 only Cunard had cruise passengers, or "man overboard" incidents? Why would I add up Cunard numbers when there are dozens of ships listed from other cruise lines?

[Omega1]

That is correct. And my point was that we don't see "press releases" on all of those incidents, so we shouldn't automatically expect one in this case. If there's some other compelling reason for NCL to make public comments on it they will. But not if this is like the approximately 17 overboard cruise ship passengers in 2017 or the 6 - 8 so far this year.

I guess the only difference between this case and most of the others is that it has been high profile in the media. I’ve only ever seen one other ‘man’ overboard report on the BBC news homepage.

NCL will quickly issue a press release if it is in their interests eg to counter any negative publicity. Otherwise, why would they?

[theartfulcodger]

Hope she is sent the bill for her rescue by the Croation Navy also issues a public apology to all fellow passengers for completely messing up their holiday, hope they don't make a film of this numptys exploits.

[theartfulcodger]

Still apparently doing the air hostess bit (for now anyway) but not with Virgin - doing it on small business jets according to reports.

 

Lets hope she don't jump out of the aeroplane .

[billslowsky]

You lost me there. Are you saying that between 2000 and 2016 only Cunard had cruise passengers, or "man overboard" incidents? Why would I add up Cunard numbers when there are dozens of ships listed from other cruise lines?

 

Because it demonstrates that the number of incidents spans all the way back to 2000, not the 11 years you incorrectly used to inflate the incidence rate. Simple mathematical demonstration.

[theartfulcodger]

Some people do go a bit far for attention seeking.

[BirdTravels]

Where the hell did you get this info??? I have worked on ships for YEARS without anyone going overboard. This is a really ill-informed (trust me, I had other words!) statement to make. Go check your FACTS!

So, Dad, the fact say that in many years, there are an average of 2 overboards a month. Why would we trust you and listen to your other words asserting that no one every goes overboard.

[fshagan]

I guess the only difference between this case and most of the others is that it has been high profile in the media. I’ve only ever seen one other ‘man’ overboard report on the BBC news homepage.

NCL will quickly issue a press release if it is in their interests eg to counter any negative publicity. Otherwise, why would they?

 

Exactly.

[billslowsky]

So, Dad, the fact say that in many years, there are an average of 2 overboards a month. Why would we trust you and listen to your other words asserting that no one every goes overboard.

 

The "facts" cited showed 1 per month. No one said "never".

[fshagan]

Because it demonstrates that the number of incidents spans all the way back to 2000, not the 11 years you incorrectly used to inflate the incidence rate. Simple mathematical demonstration.

 

No, it's just obfuscation. My original estimate of more than 1 per month was based on the news reports that counted more than 300 in 18 years (1.3888888 per month), and I provided links to those stories after I was attacked with this:

 

Where the hell did you get this info??? I have worked on ships for YEARS without anyone going overboard. This is a really ill-informed (trust me, I had other words!) statement to make. Go check your FACTS!

 

That's a pretty aggressive response. So I provided the links to the news stories that quoted the number of 300 since the year 2000 (not quite 18 years). Then the "well, actually" posts came up that brought up completely unrelated "facts" that were also untrue ("ferries!" "lightening!"). I may have misread the number of years in the source linked by one of the original stories - I'm not sure - but even if it's 248 over an 18 year period (taking out the 71 non cruise liner overboards) my original statement is still true. It's more than one per month (13.78 per year).

 

So you chime in with Cunard only having a few. Yeah, that's a good contribution.

 

My original point was that we probably won't see any kind of press release explaining this incident from NCL unless there's some other compelling reason to do so (controversy, a lawsuit settlement, etc.) We would notice if there was more than one a month from the cruise industry.

[PATRLR]

The "facts" cited showed 1 per month. No one said "never".

You are correct, no one said never, including BirdTravels.

SakeDad said "for YEARS without anyone going overboard" which most reasonable people would accept as an assertion based on his experiences that no one ever goes overboard.

 

If ever there was a thread that needs to shutdown, it's this one...

[billslowsky]

You are correct, no one said never, including BirdTravels.

SakeDad said "for YEARS without anyone going overboard" which most reasonable people would accept as an assertion based on his experiences that no one ever goes overboard.

 

He also said that he worked for years on ships without anyone going overboard. Nothing - nothing at all - has shown that to not be true. That's his experience, and considering how many cruise ships there are, it's very possible that someone could have this personal experience. I've been on a dozen cruises with no incidents. That's my personal experience.

 

No one said "never".

[billslowsky]

No, it's just obfuscation. My original estimate of more than 1 per month was based on the news reports that counted more than 300 in 18 years (1.3888888 per month), and I provided links to those stories after I was attacked with this:

 

 

 

That's a pretty aggressive response. So I provided the links to the news stories that quoted the number of 300 since the year 2000 (not quite 18 years). Then the "well, actually" posts came up that brought up completely unrelated "facts" that were also untrue ("ferries!" "lightening!"). I may have misread the number of years in the source linked by one of the original stories - I'm not sure - but even if it's 248 over an 18 year period (taking out the 71 non cruise liner overboards) my original statement is still true. It's more than one per month (13.78 per year).

 

So you chime in with Cunard only having a few. Yeah, that's a good contribution.

 

My original point was that we probably won't see any kind of press release explaining this incident from NCL unless there's some other compelling reason to do so (controversy, a lawsuit settlement, etc.) We would notice if there was more than one a month from the cruise industry.

 

"Obfuscation"? LOL.

 

You argued with someone who cited his personal experience.

 

You misread the data you cited. First you included ferry incidents, then you misread the number of years that the data covered. You came up with 2 overboards per month, which is almost double the actual rate based on the data you provided.

 

I cited the Cunard line because it's the simplest to demonstrate that the number of incidents covered 2000- 2018, not the 11 years you are citing.

 

You guessed right on your original post.

 

You don't understand the data, I get it.

[chengkp75]

43 years going to sea, 4 of them on cruise ships, never had anyone go overboard. Does it happen? Sure. Have I seen it? Nope.

[CrossBluePerchance]

In 2015, between La Romana and Philipsburg, heading east on a transatlantic aboard the CDF/Pullmantur Horizon, we were woken up by the Oscar Starboard announcement.

 

Jumper.

 

Hove to for eight hours while US Coast Guard from Puerto Rico made helo and boat searches.

 

Didn't find him.