After reading this article do you think "kicked off" are the right words to use?

[OCruisers]

On 12/1/2018 at 3:09 PM, Krazy Kruizers said:

If they used a TA, the TA should also have told them what Visas they needed besides their reading the fine print.

 

Lots of mistakes here.  HAL should never have let them on the ship without those Visas.

 

Agree with you, KK!  

Also a good travel agent will " walk people throught " on exactly what they need to do to apply for visas.

[Fouremco]

2 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

Personal responsibility appears to be in short supply.

So true...

[cayman09]

My most recent cruise dinner table had a British couple, an Australian, a couple from Spain and Americans. We met people from Italy and Portugal as well. ChinaShrek, are you really saying that you expect every cruise line and airline to customize written Visa requirements for all of these situations and more? Ridiculous!

[richwmn]

At some point, around January of this year I think, I was looking at my online check in for the Voyage of the Vikings. I saw the box referenced above about visas and the need to check with a visa service or consulate. Somewhere in there,  somewhere that I can't find now, there was a link to a recommended visa service. I called and was told I was good but to check again within 90 days of the beginning of the cruise.

[*Miss G*]

22 minutes ago, richwmn said:

At some point, around January of this year I think, I was looking at my online check in for the Voyage of the Vikings. I saw the box referenced above about visas and the need to check with a visa service or consulate. Somewhere in there,  somewhere that I can't find now, there was a link to a recommended visa service. I called and was told I was good but to check again within 90 days of the beginning of the cruise.

 

The link starts in the check-in process.  (See attachment) That link takes you to the FAQ’s —> Cruise Preparation.  Under “Cruise Preparation” is the Do I Need a Visa?  And that’s just the start of the warnings.

 

[DaveOKC]

13 hours ago, *Miss G* said:

 

The link starts in the check-in process.  (See attachment) That link takes you to the FAQ’s —> Cruise Preparation.  Under “Cruise Preparation” is the Do I Need a Visa?  And that’s just the start of the warnings.

 

I tried clicking on the Visa Requirements link on the HAL website and it really was not much help.

[ChinaShrek]

19 hours ago, cayman09 said:

My most recent cruise dinner table had a British couple, an Australian, a couple from Spain and Americans. We met people from Italy and Portugal as well. ChinaShrek, are you really saying that you expect every cruise line and airline to customize written Visa requirements for all of these situations and more? Ridiculous!

 

Why not?  They know where we will live (residency) and they know our passport information (citizenship).  Everything is computerized these days.  Once you enter this information at purchase, HAL could easily send you an email with the precise visa requirements for the cruise.  Everyone is harping on personal responsibility.  If I am spending thousands of dollars on a cruise to Asia, the cruise line can send me a link with the visa requirements.  Until they do so, I will not go on that cruise!

[richwmn]

19 hours ago, *Miss G* said:

 

The link starts in the check-in process.  (See attachment) That link takes you to the FAQ’s —> Cruise Preparation.  Under “Cruise Preparation” is the Do I Need a Visa?  And that’s just the start of the warnings.

 

 

As I said in my previous post. About a year ago there was a phone number for a Visa Service Agency. I called the number and the agent pulled up the itinerary and said everything was good. As DaveOKC said, I didn't find the PDF linked to be very helpful and easily out of date.

[doublebzz]

7 minutes ago, ChinaShrek said:

 

Why not?  They know where we will live (residency) and they know our passport information (citizenship).  Everything is computerized these days.  Once you enter this information at purchase, HAL could easily send you an email with the precise visa requirements for the cruise.  Everyone is harping on personal responsibility.  If I am spending thousands of dollars on a cruise to Asia, the cruise line can send me a link with the visa requirements.  Until they do so, I will not go on that cruise!

Could not agree with you more.  On Post #45, I posted a hypothetical asking if a visa was required in Sanya, China.  To date, none of the mavens on this thread have responded.  In point of fact, it is not a hypothetical but relates to an actual forthcoming cruise.  In researching this question, I have found nothing but conflicting responses from a variety of sources including HAL, my TA and cruise critic members, among others.  I guess I'm just irresponsible and dumb.

[chengkp75]

10 minutes ago, doublebzz said:

Could not agree with you more.  On Post #45, I posted a hypothetical asking if a visa was required in Sanya, China.  To date, none of the mavens on this thread have responded.  In point of fact, it is not a hypothetical but relates to an actual forthcoming cruise.  In researching this question, I have found nothing but conflicting responses from a variety of sources including HAL, my TA and cruise critic members, among others.  I guess I'm just irresponsible and dumb.

Sorry, just kind of proves the point.  As others have said, why ask about visa requirements from an anonymous internet forum, or even a travel "professional" like a TA or HAL CSR?  Why don't you go to the source, the Chinese consulate, or a visa service, someone who deals with visas every working day?

[doublebzz]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

Sorry, just kind of proves the point.  As others have said, why ask about visa requirements from an anonymous internet forum, or even a travel "professional" like a TA or HAL CSR?  Why don't you go to the source, the Chinese consulate, or a visa service, someone who deals with visas every working day?

One goes to these forums with the hope that someone has experienced the same situation and can provide first hand knowledge of how its handled.  With respect to the Sanya visit, the following guidance is provided on China Embassy web site:

"A foreign citizen holding an ordinary passport issued by any of the following countries is exempted from a visa if he/ she joins a tourist group (of 5 or more persons) organized by an international travel agency registered in Hainan with the approval of China National Tourism Administration to visit Hainan Province and his/her stay is no more than 15 days: Australia, Austria, Canada, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Indonesia, Italy, Japan, Kazakhstan, Malaysia, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Philippines, Republic of Korea, Russia, Singapore, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Thailand, United Kingdom, Ukraine and United States. Citizens of Germany, Republic of Korea and Russia may join an international tourist group (of 2 or more persons) and can stay up to 21 days."  

Only HAL would know if they are "registered in Hainan with the approval of China National Tourism Administration" and thus qualify for the visa exemption.  If so, why doesn't HAL indicate so in each applicable cruise rather than place the onus on each customer.  Of course, the answer is by making visa requirements entirely the customer's responsibility, the hope is to avoid any potential liability.  

What is troubling to me throughout this tread are implications that if someone is not completely aware of the complex and confusing China visa requirements, they are somehow ignorant and/or irresponsible.  

[chengkp75]

2 minutes ago, doublebzz said:

One goes to these forums with the hope that someone has experienced the same situation and can provide first hand knowledge of how its handled.  With respect to the Sanya visit, the following guidance is provided on China Embassy web site:

"A foreign citizen holding an ordinary passport issued by any of the following countries is exempted from a visa if he/ she joins a tourist group (of 5 or more persons) organized by an international travel agency registered in Hainan with the approval of China National Tourism Administration to visit Hainan Province and his/her stay is no more than 15 days: Australia, Austria, Canada, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Indonesia, Italy, Japan, Kazakhstan, Malaysia, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Philippines, Republic of Korea, Russia, Singapore, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Thailand, United Kingdom, Ukraine and United States. Citizens of Germany, Republic of Korea and Russia may join an international tourist group (of 2 or more persons) and can stay up to 21 days."  

Only HAL would know if they are "registered in Hainan with the approval of China National Tourism Administration" and thus qualify for the visa exemption.  If so, why doesn't HAL indicate so in each applicable cruise rather than place the onus on each customer.  Of course, the answer is by making visa requirements entirely the customer's responsibility, the hope is to avoid any potential liability.  

What is troubling to me throughout this tread are implications that if someone is not completely aware of the complex and confusing China visa requirements, they are somehow ignorant and/or irresponsible.  

Well, the way I read that statement is that if you are going in a group on an excursion would you not need a visa, but since you are free to move about the country once off the ship, that is not a "group" for visa applications.  But, at any rate, you can now call HAL to see if they are registered, and if a visa exemption is in effect.  Since they don't say this as a blanket statement for this cruise, I believe my understanding of the "group" definition is correct, and that visas are required.  And, actually, the Chinese government, and their consulate, would know whether or not HAL is registered with the Tourism Administration.

[GeorgeCharlie]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

Well, the way I read that statement is that if you are going in a group on an excursion would you not need a visa, but since you are free to move about the country once off the ship, that is not a "group" for visa applications.  But, at any rate, you can now call HAL to see if they are registered, and if a visa exemption is in effect.  Since they don't say this as a blanket statement for this cruise, I believe my understanding of the "group" definition is correct, and that visas are required.  And, actually, the Chinese government, and their consulate, would know whether or not HAL is registered with the Tourism Administration.

 

Hainan Province is a special visa-free area of China where tourist can visit without having to get a visa, but if they plan on traveling to other parts of China they need a visa (other than Hong Kong, which is a special administrative area). 

 

Copied from their information site.

5.  Travelers who need to travel to other parts of China must apply for a visa.

Travelers who need to extend their stay in Hainan or travel to other parts of China must apply for a visa through a Hainan travel agency. Documents required to apply for a visa: Certificate issued by a travel agency, passport.

 

On our cruise last spring, which had stops in China, there were a few passengers who felt they should be able to get away with utilizing various visa-free exceptions for visiting China, such as the 144 hour visa free transit policy. There was one very powerful message which came through to them and that is, if you are planning on more than one stop in China, you need a multi-entry visa - period, no exception.

 

We were using a private tour company to visit Beijing for 3-day/2-night stay and when I was booking it I queried them as to what their suggestions were regarding Chinese visas. They told me their policy is the recommend everyone get a multi-entry, multi-year visa, regardless of whether they are planning on visiting China only once. They based this on the fact China has a reputation of changing visa requirements without notice and it's not uncommon for immigration officials to have their own interpretations of various rights under special visa allowances.    

 

So why take the risk. The cost of a visa from China is the same regardless of whether it is for six months, or 10 years. Plus the price is reasonable.

 

Our cruise ended up having to change itinerary when China decided foreign cruise ships could not have consecutive ports of call in China. It required our ship to visit another country between any stops in China.

 

 

Edited December 4, 2018 by GeorgeCharlie

[ksmaxey]

We will be on a HAL cruise from Shanghai in February.  I was notified by a special email forwarded by my travel agent:

 

Please review the notification from Holland America Line. 

 

               

                                                 THIS IS A DO NOT REPLY EMAIL

VISA NOTIFICATION:

Certain countries require that you obtain official authorization (a visa)

before entering the country and some countries require that you obtain a visa

regardless of whether you plan to go ashore in that particular port or not.

Usually, there is a fee required. Guests are responsible for verifying and

obtaining any necessary travel documents for entry and exit to the countries

visited, as these requirements vary depending on the specific port and

nationality of the traveler. Boarding may be denied or fines levied against

those guests arriving at the pier without the proper documentation and you

will not be eligible for a refund. Payment of any fines levied is the

responsibility of the individual guest. Please note that fees and visa

requirements listed below are subject to change without notice.

 

[*Miss G*]

I can’t even begin to understand a mindset that wants things handed to them.  If I had that attitude at work I’d be well out of a job.  To each their own!

[RDC1]

On 12/1/2018 at 8:42 AM, AmazedByCruising said:

 

It seems so, but I thought it would be seen as being "in transit" on an airport.

The problem is that you need to get clearance for the ship before any passengers can get off.  If any body on the ship does not have proper documentation for that clearance process, then no one gets off.

[RDC1]

3 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Well, the way I read that statement is that if you are going in a group on an excursion would you not need a visa, but since you are free to move about the country once off the ship, that is not a "group" for visa applications.  But, at any rate, you can now call HAL to see if they are registered, and if a visa exemption is in effect.  Since they don't say this as a blanket statement for this cruise, I believe my understanding of the "group" definition is correct, and that visas are required.  And, actually, the Chinese government, and their consulate, would know whether or not HAL is registered with the Tourism Administration.

My read is that it is aimed at land tour companies where people book multiple day tours from approved tour companies that are fully within that province. I very much doubt that it would apply to a cruise line happens to call at a port in that province. 

[Despegue]

When in doubt, just get the bloody visa. Especially in China.

by the way, one of the most restrictive Countries in the World to be allowed to enter as crew is... the USA. ( the C1/D visa)

right there together with China and Russia. 

 

 

 

 

[Elaine5715]

Considering the number of people who travel without passports "because they aren't required" and believe should a emergency occur, they will be exempted from passport requirements, I think they extend this mindset to visas. Add in the folks who are seemingly resentful of countries with entry requirements, you have another group who believe the laws don't apply to them.  

[travelholics]

5 hours ago, doublebzz said:

One goes to these forums with the hope that someone has experienced the same situation and can provide first hand knowledge of how its handled.  With respect to the Sanya visit, the following guidance is provided on China Embassy web site:

"A foreign citizen holding an ordinary passport issued by any of the following countries is exempted from a visa if he/ she joins a tourist group (of 5 or more persons) organized by an international travel agency registered in Hainan with the approval of China National Tourism Administration to visit Hainan Province and his/her stay is no more than 15 days: Australia, Austria, Canada, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Indonesia, Italy, Japan, Kazakhstan, Malaysia, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Philippines, Republic of Korea, Russia, Singapore, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Thailand, United Kingdom, Ukraine and United States. Citizens of Germany, Republic of Korea and Russia may join an international tourist group (of 2 or more persons) and can stay up to 21 days."  

Only HAL would know if they are "registered in Hainan with the approval of China National Tourism Administration" and thus qualify for the visa exemption.  If so, why doesn't HAL indicate so in each applicable cruise rather than place the onus on each customer.  Of course, the answer is by making visa requirements entirely the customer's responsibility, the hope is to avoid any potential liability.  

What is troubling to me throughout this tread are implications that if someone is not completely aware of the complex and confusing China visa requirements, they are somehow ignorant and/or irresponsible.  

 

[travelholics]

We are on the same cruise from Singapore to Hong Kong and our only Chinese port of call is Sanya. A number of us have spoken with HAL documentation department and have been told that if we book a HAL tour we do not require visas. The case we have all read about is now making us uneasy as we are not sure how to proceed. It would be helpful to have some guidance in writing from HAL clarifying that their tours do not require a visa.

[doublebzz]

6 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

 Why don't you go to the source, the Chinese consulate, or a visa service, someone who deals with visas every working day?

Took your advice and emailed my question to the visa section of Chinese Embassy in Washington using the email address on their web site.  The following is the response I received from Yahoo Mail to my email:  

 

"Sorry, we were unable to deliver your message to the following address.

 

<visa_us@mfa.gov.cn>:

Unable to deliver message after multiple retries, giving up."

 

So much for trying to communicate with Chinese officials.

[doublebzz]

5 minutes ago, travelholics said:

We are on the same cruise from Singapore to Hong Kong and our only Chinese port of call is Sanya. A number of us have spoken with HAL documentation department and have been told that if we book a HAL tour we do not require visas. The case we have all read about is now making us uneasy as we are not sure how to proceed. It would be helpful to have some guidance in writing from HAL clarifying that their tours do not require a visa.

Exactly my point.

[RDC1]

7 hours ago, ChinaShrek said:

 

Why not?  They know where we will live (residency) and they know our passport information (citizenship).  Everything is computerized these days.  Once you enter this information at purchase, HAL could easily send you an email with the precise visa requirements for the cruise.  Everyone is harping on personal responsibility.  If I am spending thousands of dollars on a cruise to Asia, the cruise line can send me a link with the visa requirements.  Until they do so, I will not go on that cruise!

How much are you willing for them to charge as part of their cruise fare for this service? As the saying goes there is no such thing as a free lunch. If they were to include this additional service, they would need to adjust their fares accordingly to account both for the labor or subcontracted service, as well as the additional risk they incur.

 

While you might want this to be included, I and, I suspect, many other travelers do not want to have the fares increased to provide services that we handle ourselves. The standard for cruise lines, and for that matter, most land tour companies are not to include this as a service.  Some will, however, provide a reference to a vendor that will perform this service for those that want them for a fee.

[RDC1]

20 minutes ago, travelholics said:

We are on the same cruise from Singapore to Hong Kong and our only Chinese port of call is Sanya. A number of us have spoken with HAL documentation department and have been told that if we book a HAL tour we do not require visas. The case we have all read about is now making us uneasy as we are not sure how to proceed. It would be helpful to have some guidance in writing from HAL clarifying that their tours do not require a visa.

If HAL has stated that you do not need a VISA and are willing to provide you with a letter documenting that fact then you should be set. Cruise lines do not like having to deny passengers access. As such they usually error on the side of caution and say that you need to check with your TA or travel expert when it comes to VIsa matters.  If the authoritative department (the documentation department) says that you do not need one then I would trust them (I would however ask for a letter describing details, including by when you have to have signed up for a tour).

 

Sanya is a fairly unique situation with the presence of two different free Visa programs.  One, 30 day free visa access, the one that has been mentioned here, requires an approved travel company. While this is generally for land tour companies, it is also one that HAL might access in conjuction with their tour providers. The interesting question is if you need to sign up for the tour prior to boarding the cruise (otherwise how would they know if you would be covered under that program) and what happens if you cancel the excursion or if the tour company cancels it prior to arrival at port.  Would that then leave you without a valid VISA. That also raises the question if HAL is the approved tour company or if it is the local tour provider.

 

There is also another program for a free 30 day VISA on arrival that includes both cruise ships and air passengers that allows up to 30 days and allows exiting through other Chinese cities.  However, the language for that program specifically states cruise passengers disembarking at Sanya. So one would need to know if that language applies to cruise ships making day stops or if it requires a passenger to permanently disembark the ship.

Edited December 4, 2018 by RDC1