Cruising without a passport? Read this first.

[navybankerteacher]

17 minutes ago, broberts said:

 

It's not worth my time to quote the several posts that can be found on CC reporting first hand experiences of repatriation via air without passports. But the posts do exist.

 

The posts may exist, they may also be true. Do they also address the delays and extra expenses involved?  Of course  repatriation without passports happens.  It is just not as easy, quick, and cost-free as the advocates of doing without passports would have you believe.

[broberts]

1 minute ago, navybankerteacher said:

...

Until, of course, something goes wrong.   The odds are very strong that those thousands will never need a passport — but trying to convince them that getting back to the US without a passport is easy is simply misinformation.

...

 

I don't think anyone has said repatriating without a passport is easy. Not impossible. Not even very hard. Circumstances will dictate just how difficult and complicated the process may be. All that has been said is that without a passport, one will not be stranded on some island. Even when there is no official US diplomatic presence. Suggesting otherwise is misinformation.

 

1 minute ago, navybankerteacher said:

The posts may exist, they may also be true. Do they also address the delays and extra expenses involved?  Of course  repatriation without passports happens.  It is just not as easy, quick, and cost-free as the advocates of doing without passports would have you believe.

 

Who here has suggested that the process is easy, quick and cost-free? Are there any posts in this thread that advocate traveling without passports? I think not. There are posts that say one can do so and not have to worry about emergency repatriation. But I do not recall a single post that suggests traveling without a passport is best. On the other hand there are numerous posts predicting dire consequences traveling without a passport. This is simply not so.

[navybankerteacher]

15 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

This is correct and from what I've read lately the simplest solution is the one that works best- the passenger is put on a plane back to the US where they are screened at CBP secondary inspection. 

Sounds to me as though this “simplest solution” is easy.

[navybankerteacher]

6 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

One fellow wrote extensively about his experience in missing the ship and most of his delay in catching up was with his flights, he walked out of the Nassau Embassy with a passport in an hour and a half. 

...

Getting a passport in an hour and a half sounds easy.

On the other hand, no one has suggested anyone would be stuck forever without a passport.  The reality is that you can always get home - but it can take a few days and lots of living expenses.

 

[Flatbush Flyer]

2 hours ago, sft429 said:

 

Of course it isn't necessary.  Thousands do it every year.

 

nec·es·sar·y
/ˈnesəˌserē/
adjective
1.  required to be done, achieved, or present; needed; essential.

 

Of course, then their only problem is that they're most often stuck in that Walmart parking lot called the Caribbean.

[Flatbush Flyer]

2 hours ago, broberts said:

 

It's not worth my time to quote the several posts that can be found on CC reporting first hand experiences of repatriation via air without passports. But the posts do exist.

 

And, of course, if you read it on the internet, how could it be anything other than the truth?

[Flatbush Flyer]

5 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

 

You realize, of course, that you are conversing with someone who, for some reason, strongly wants to believe, and  is determined to convince others, that it is not really necessary to travel with a passport.  You will never convince him otherwise.  I am giving up on that exercise.

Very true. But, my comments/responses are really intended for the newer cruisers who may read those (or other) types of uninformed generalizations and naively think they are "gospel."

[sparks1093]

10 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

Doesn't need to have anything to do with "closed loop." Flying internationally to return to the US? You'll need a passport to get ON THE PLANE. Want an exception? You'll then need an OK from both the US government AND the airline.  AND that is where the challenge can fall on a range of difficulty from a nuisance to a nightmare. 

 

10 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

 

You realize, of course, that you are conversing with someone who, for some reason, strongly wants to believe, and  is determined to convince others, that it is not really necessary to travel with a passport.  You will never convince him otherwise.  I am giving up on that exercise.

Sheesh, I understand that normally passports are required to board an international flight. What the two of you fail to realize is that exceptions can be and are made to this rule in emergencies and for humanitarian reasons. It may not always be easy, depending on the exact circumstances but it will still happen. Under those circumstances it is the goal of the US government to get the citizen home as quickly as possible. May not happen in every case, not saying it will, but they don't put unnecessary barriers in the travelers way. Even with a passport delay and extra expenses will occur when you have to leave the ship in the middle of a cruise. A passport does minimize the hassle and that is something for someone to consider when deciding to get one. Your argument is that it's going to a super hassle and take days, mine is that it will be simpler than that. It's up to each traveler to decide what their comfort level is.

[sparks1093]

10 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

The posts may exist, they may also be true. Do they also address the delays and extra expenses involved?  Of course  repatriation without passports happens.  It is just not as easy, quick, and cost-free as the advocates of doing without passports would have you believe.

And it's not as difficult as you make it out to be unless there are unusual circumstances involved. And not to put too fine a point on it there are delays and extra expenses with missing a cruise with a passport. A passport may help minimize them, but a passport isn't going to get you a seat on a plane if one isn't open.

[sparks1093]

8 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

Of course, then their only problem is that they're most often stuck in that Walmart parking lot called the Caribbean.

 

Well of course, the Caribbean is one of the few places where one can cruise without a passport (with limited exceptions).

8 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

And, of course, if you read it on the internet, how could it be anything other than the truth?

 

So you doubt the story of the couple in the quoted article as a cautionary tale for the need for travel insurance? I do read everything with a grain of salt but you know what I've not read? Any stories where it took a long time for a US citizen to get home from a cruise because of a lack of documentation (any delays that I've read about were related to getting medical treatment or arranging flights and the like). And I do have sources other than CC, including several friends who are CBP officers.

 

 

 

[Flatbush Flyer]

2 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

 

Well of course, the Caribbean is one of the few places where one can cruise without a passport (with limited exceptions).

 

So you doubt the story of the couple in the quoted article as a cautionary tale for the need for travel insurance? I do read everything with a grain of salt but you know what I've not read? Any stories where it took a long time for a US citizen to get home from a cruise because of a lack of documentation (any delays that I've read about were related to getting medical treatment or arranging flights and the like). And I do have sources other than CC, including several friends who are CBP officers.

 

 

 

OK - last shot at this before returning to Christmas shopping:

 

Since it appears that you haven't actually  experienced the kind of international travel issue(s) we're discussing AND you're relying on anecdotal "evidence" gleaned primarily from reading threads on the CC website (where only a very small percentage of cruisers interact), you really don't have a clue as to how difficult (or expensive in time, trouble and money) it can be to not possess a passport when you may need to fly home.

 

At the very least, beyond the necessary logistical hassles in an unfamiliar environment (no matter how insignificant they may seem to someone "reading" about it), have you considered the uncovered-by-insurance costs, which may include lost income for some folks)?

 

And before you ask, YES- over far too many years of international travel for work (including many by sea), I have personally experienced the hassle of documentation snafus- not a one of which was based on some error or lack of passport/visa/etc on my end. And BTW, port agents screw up too.

 

SH*T happens - especially true when you're far from home. Sure, you can hope for the best. But, always prepare for the worst.

 

If you're a newbie reading this and you intend to continue traveling, get a passport and insurance. Don't be "pennywise and pound foolish."

 

Happy holidays.

[K32682]

38 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

If you're a newbie reading this and you intend to continue traveling, get a passport and insurance. Don't be "pennywise and pound foolish."

 

Happy holidays.

Excellent advice. It may be possible to get on a flight in the event of an emergency but it will be much harder, take more time and probably be more expensive.  Meanwhile, for those of us who have a passport and room on our credit cards it is simply getting to the airport.  

 

It is inexplicable that some so-called "experienced travelers" on this site would be excusing people dumb enough to leave their own country without a passport and hope for the best if something goes awry. 

 

Why is there reticence among Americans to get a passport?   

Edited December 22, 2018 by K32682

[Hlitner]

We understand the resistance, byr some folks, to getting a Passport.  But we have long advised (as have many others including cruise lines) that it is very wise to travel with a valid Passport.  What happened to these passengers could happen anywhere in the world including Caribbean islands.  The lack of a valid Passport means that returning to the USA can become quite complicated and will likely result in delays.  Keep in mind that any delay will be at the expense of the traveler.  Obtaining a Passport in an emergency can take many days and involve significant cost.  

 

I should add that cruisers without Passports are routinely making errors which result in being denied boarding.  We have seen passengers turned away at Florida ports because their documents did not pass the review conducted at the port.  And most recently this past November 1, we witnessed two ladies in tears as they were turned away from a 10 day Regal Princess cruise going from NYC to Ft Lauderdale.  One of the women, between her loud sobs, was insisting that somebody at the cruise line said she did not need a Passport!  Or course that info was wrong because this was not a "closed loop" cruise meaning that everyone aboard needed a valid Passport.

 

We have often heard the cry that "Passports are expensive."  While this is true, the lack of a Passport can turn out to be much more expensive in terms of time and money.   And traveling outside the USA or Canada without health insurance is another huge gamble...especially for those without access to large amounts of funds or a credit card with a large credit authorization.

 

Hank

[sloopsailor]

16 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

We understand the resistance, byr some folks, to getting a Passport.  But we have long advised (as have many others including cruise lines) that it is very wise to travel with a valid Passport.  What happened to these passengers could happen anywhere in the world including Caribbean islands.  The lack of a valid Passport means that returning to the USA can become quite complicated and will likely result in delays.  Keep in mind that any delay will be at the expense of the traveler.  Obtaining a Passport in an emergency can take many days and involve significant cost.  

 

I should add that cruisers without Passports are routinely making errors which result in being denied boarding.  We have seen passengers turned away at Florida ports because their documents did not pass the review conducted at the port.  And most recently this past November 1, we witnessed two ladies in tears as they were turned away from a 10 day Regal Princess cruise going from NYC to Ft Lauderdale.  One of the women, between her loud sobs, was insisting that somebody at the cruise line said she did not need a Passport!  Or course that info was wrong because this was not a "closed loop" cruise meaning that everyone aboard needed a valid Passport.

 

We have often heard the cry that "Passports are expensive."  While this is true, the lack of a Passport can turn out to be much more expensive in terms of time and money.   And traveling outside the USA or Canada without health insurance is another huge gamble...especially for those without access to large amounts of funds or a credit card with a large credit authorization.

 

Hank

 

And yet we have several CC members, one in particular on this very thread, who irresponsibly insist, over and over again, that a passport is not necessary and a waste of money. Their stubborn bullheadedness can, and probably has, caused problems for unfortunate people who heed their poor advice and suffer the consequences. All to satisfy the poster's ego at being "right" in contrast to offering the smarter advice to be a responsible traveler. 

Edited December 22, 2018 by sloopsailor

[broberts]

13 minutes ago, sloopsailor said:

 

And yet we have several CC members, one in particular on this very thread, who irresponsibly insist, over and over again, that a passport is not necessary and a waste of money. Their stubborn bullheadedness can, and probably has, caused problems for unfortunate people who heed their poor advice and suffer the consequences. All to satisfy the poster's ego at being "right" in contrast to offering the smarter advice to be a responsible traveler. 

 

I don't recall a single post in this thread that suggests a passport is always a waste of money. Nor do I recall a single post that suggests traveling with a passport is not the ideal.

 

The fact is that when one is on a closed loop cruise a passport is not necessary. Those who keep insisting that it is necessary are bullheaded and flat out wrong.

 

While the major cruise lines recommend traveling with a passport, all make a point of explaining that a passport is not required on certain sailings.

 

https://www.cbp.gov/travel/us-citizens/western-hemisphere-travel-initiative

https://www.royalcaribbean.com/faq/questions/united-states-citizen-travel-documentation

https://help.carnival.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/3409/~/travel-documentation%3A-u.s.-citizens

https://www.princess.com/learn/faq_answer/pre_cruise/prepare.jsp, see Travel Documents Requirements

https://www.passportsandvisas.com/cruise/lines/holland-america-line

https://www.celebritycruises.com/company/customer-support/help-and-faqs/pre-cruise/travel-documents

https://www.ncl.com/ca/en/freestyle-cruise/cruise-travel-documents

 

Insisting that there will be great suffering traveling without a passport (when allowed) is scaremongering of the highest order.

 

Traveling with a passport is always preferable. But it is not always necessary.

 

I believe people booking cruises are adults and should be allowed to make their own decisions based on personal circumstances. Providing accurate information without editorializing allows them to do this.

 

 

[sloopsailor]

8 minutes ago, broberts said:

Insisting that there will be great suffering traveling without a passport (when allowed) is scaremongering of the highest order.

 

As opposed to telling people that it won't be a problem if something happens? As a traveler myself, I would rather people tell me the actual facts, and not their wishful thinking. I want to know the worst case scenario that can occur if I use the lowest common demonstrator in a situation, not just the best possible outcome. It is impossible to make an intelligent decision with only one side of the story. 

 

Quote

I believe people booking cruises are adults and should be allowed to make their own decisions based on personal circumstances. Providing accurate information without editorializing allows them to do this.

 

And I believe in giving people ALL of the information and then letting them decide for themselves. To do as you and others do and tell people "don't worry, everything will be fine" and suggesting they can get by without passports is not giving them the accurate information you claim to be giving them to base their decision on. 

Edited December 22, 2018 by sloopsailor

[sft429]

14 minutes ago, sloopsailor said:

 

To do as you and others do and tell people "don't worry, everything will be fine" and suggesting they can get by without passports is not giving them the accurate information you claim to be giving them to base their decision on. 

 

 

Uhh, you can get by without a passport.  How is that not accurate?

[Elaine5715]

On 12/19/2018 at 7:44 PM, Velvetwater said:

As I said I understand the financial and various reasons why US folk may not have a passport but in all seriousness...the fact that one can leave their country (or country zone group) without a passport appears odd to the rest of the world. 

 

The US should have the same passport rules for everywhere else...including for cruises. A US passport is a comparable price to the UK and well worth it. Passports make travelling simple and even though I get the geography of US holiday habits you would hope a regular cruiser would invest in one.

 

Also...

 

Surely it is possible to buy holiday insurance/holiday medical insurance in the US? My husband has T1 diabetes (although we are young and healthy otherwise)and our insurance for a cruise inc medical came to around Oz/Asian 3 week cruise holiday cost us £70 which is around $95.

Make sure you write to your Congressperson and ask the law be changed.

[Elaine5715]

On 12/19/2018 at 8:28 AM, LDVinNC said:

A sad story - but have they no friend or relative who could use a credit card to buy them tickets home?  I agree - lack of passports is not the main issue here.

They would need to pay back that person while a GFM lets others pay for your mistakes.

[Elaine5715]

19 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

 

You realize, of course, that you are conversing with someone who, for some reason, strongly wants to believe, and  is determined to convince others, that it is not really necessary to travel with a passport.  You will never convince him otherwise.  I am giving up on that exercise.

Considering the contradiction in their stories...why would the fella need to go to the Embassy/Consulate  to get a new passport when he could head to the airport and say, "Pretty please let me on the plane" or not understanding that all the islands belong to a country and there is a US Consulate located somewhere in their country of which one must make their way to on their own dime.  

[sparks1093]

3 hours ago, sloopsailor said:

 

And yet we have several CC members, one in particular on this very thread, who irresponsibly insist, over and over again, that a passport is not necessary and a waste of money. Their stubborn bullheadedness can, and probably has, caused problems for unfortunate people who heed their poor advice and suffer the consequences. All to satisfy the poster's ego at being "right" in contrast to offering the smarter advice to be a responsible traveler. 

As the "one in particular" that you are no doubt referring to what I insist on is that travelers make up their own mind and that they let their personal travel needs, which isn't the same for everyone, determine what documentation the use. If you've missed that point in my posts then I apologize for not being clearer.

[sparks1093]

3 hours ago, Hlitner said:

We understand the resistance, byr some folks, to getting a Passport.  But we have long advised (as have many others including cruise lines) that it is very wise to travel with a valid Passport.  What happened to these passengers could happen anywhere in the world including Caribbean islands.  The lack of a valid Passport means that returning to the USA can become quite complicated and will likely result in delays.  Keep in mind that any delay will be at the expense of the traveler.  Obtaining a Passport in an emergency can take many days and involve significant cost.  

 

I should add that cruisers without Passports are routinely making errors which result in being denied boarding.  We have seen passengers turned away at Florida ports because their documents did not pass the review conducted at the port.  And most recently this past November 1, we witnessed two ladies in tears as they were turned away from a 10 day Regal Princess cruise going from NYC to Ft Lauderdale.  One of the women, between her loud sobs, was insisting that somebody at the cruise line said she did not need a Passport!  Or course that info was wrong because this was not a "closed loop" cruise meaning that everyone aboard needed a valid Passport.

 

We have often heard the cry that "Passports are expensive."  While this is true, the lack of a Passport can turn out to be much more expensive in terms of time and money.   And traveling outside the USA or Canada without health insurance is another huge gamble...especially for those without access to large amounts of funds or a credit card with a large credit authorization.

 

Hank

Just read a post in another passport thread where a passenger was turned away for not having the required documentation to board. The passenger in question did have a passport but had forgotten it at home. So even those with passports make mistakes.

[Hlitner]

2 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

Just read a post in another passport thread where a passenger was turned away for not having the required documentation to board. The passenger in question did have a passport but had forgotten it at home. So even those with passports make mistakes.

Not sure of your point, but yes, folks do make mistakes and there are often consequences.  

 

Hank

[sparks1093]

5 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

OK - last shot at this before returning to Christmas shopping:

 

Since it appears that you haven't actually  experienced the kind of international travel issue(s) we're discussing AND you're relying on anecdotal "evidence" gleaned primarily from reading threads on the CC website (where only a very small percentage of cruisers interact), you really don't have a clue as to how difficult (or expensive in time, trouble and money) it can be to not possess a passport when you may need to fly home.

 

At the very least, beyond the necessary logistical hassles in an unfamiliar environment (no matter how insignificant they may seem to someone "reading" about it), have you considered the uncovered-by-insurance costs, which may include lost income for some folks)?

 

And before you ask, YES- over far too many years of international travel for work (including many by sea), I have personally experienced the hassle of documentation snafus- not a one of which was based on some error or lack of passport/visa/etc on my end. And BTW, port agents screw up too.

 

SH*T happens - especially true when you're far from home. Sure, you can hope for the best. But, always prepare for the worst.

 

If you're a newbie reading this and you intend to continue traveling, get a passport and insurance. Don't be "pennywise and pound foolish."

 

Happy holidays.

I have experienced my share of government red tape in my day, rest assured. My decision to travel without a passport was made long before those threads were written on CC so I did not rely on them at all in making my decision. People need to make up their own minds about what travel documentation to use based on their individual travel needs just as they need to make up their own minds about whether to get travel insurance. Stories like the one that started this thread are, to me, better arguments for having good travel insurance, but of course neither you or I experienced it first hand so maybe we should discount it completely? Or maybe we just discount those stories that contradict our own view? Whether you or navybankerteacher or sloopsailor like it or not the regulations give travelers a choice and it's their choice to make.

[sparks1093]

20 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

Not sure of your point, but yes, folks do make mistakes and there are often consequences.  

 

Hank

Sorry, I didn't snip your post, I was referring to this comment by you "I should add that cruisers without Passports are routinely making errors which result in being denied boarding." and I was simply pointing out that it's an error made by passport holders, also. (I've also read about people grabbing their expired passport by mistake, but they were able to have someone fax their birth certificate to the port so they could board their cruise.) 

Edited December 22, 2018 by sparks1093