Ever experience a "near miss" collision with another ship?

[identitycrisis]

 

I'm cross-posting this post-trip because I was curious about something that happened late the last night of a recent NCL cruise. It was around 11:30 pm, we were in our balcony room packing, and we heard the ship sound a loud blast of its horn, like an emergency blast. We looked out the window, and we saw another cruise ship passing seriously, uncomfortably close to us. Like, much closer than seemed advisable... I hate to guess the distance but, maybe 30 yards away?  I've seen other ships sailing alongside us, but they were always well in the distance. 

 

Was it a near collision? Is this normal? I doubt the cruise line would admit anything nearly happened, but I've never experienced that, but I've only been on a few cruises.

Wouldn't their radar make this impossible? It was an extremely foggy night, and we were coming into the port of New Orleans.

 

Thanks for your thoughts.  We were actually really shaken up. 

[CruiserBruce]

Radar doesn't stop you from hitting another object, just shows you that object and its location. 

 

Without more details,  hard to comment. Where was this...at the Pier, in the channel, or where? Were tugs assisting? That would help determine just how dangerous this might, or might not, have been.

[identitycrisis]

I think we were still far out in the Gulf, or at least, this was not immediately coming into the pier, because we still had the rest of the night to travel before we arrived in the port in the morning. Maybe we were going up the coast line? 

We were still moving fast, not just drifting into a pier, if that makes sense. 

Edited March 6, 2019 by identitycrisis

[138east]

While docked at Kings Wharf in Bermuda on the Explorer we were nudged by the NCL Star which had broken her mooring ropes in a squall and was adrift in the harbor.  Not exactly a “collision”, but there were visible dents on the Star.

 

https://youtube.com/watch?v=rH9Lv8gwqqE%3Frel%3D0

 

You can see the dent at the very end.

 

Needless to say no pier runners that day! No one missed the ship.

[Shorex]

Passengers on two MSC ships in Buenos Aires experienced a collision just a few weeks ago.

 

https://www.logisticsmiddleeast.com/transport/maritime/32199-video-msc-cruise-ships-collide-in-port-investigation-underway

 

 

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, identitycrisis said:

 

I'm cross-posting this post-trip because I was curious about something that happened late the last night of a recent NCL cruise. It was around 11:30 pm, we were in our balcony room packing, and we heard the ship sound a loud blast of its horn, like an emergency blast. We looked out the window, and we saw another cruise ship passing seriously, uncomfortably close to us. Like, much closer than seemed advisable... I hate to guess the distance but, maybe 30 yards away?  I've seen other ships sailing alongside us, but they were always well in the distance. 

 

Was it a near collision? Is this normal? I doubt the cruise line would admit anything nearly happened, but I've never experienced that, but I've only been on a few cruises.

Wouldn't their radar make this impossible? It was an extremely foggy night, and we were coming into the port of New Orleans.

 

Thanks for your thoughts.  We were actually really shaken up. 

It sounds like you were in the "traffic separation scheme" approaching Southwest Pass.  These are areas where ship traffic is supposed to travel, where it is guaranteed to be deep enough for ocean-going ships.  When ships pass each other in these channels, they can be pretty close together.  One prolonged blast of the ship's horn is used as a warning to another ship.  What it sounds like is that one ship was passing your ship, and doing so with both ships at high speed.  In shallow waters, two ships passing like this can create a low pressure in the water between them, and the two ships get sucked towards each other.  While not frequent, this phenomenon is fairly common.  Ships passing in channels will frequently be less than 50 yards apart.

[Diamondring]

Though not hit by another ship.  While at the pier in Cartagena in 2014, we had a barge hit us.  We happened to watch it move away from another pier and noticed the tug lost control. It was a pretty hard hit, but didn't keep us from going on with our cruise.  Crew went out and took pictures and assessed damage. 

[Capt_BJ]

One prolonged blast of the ship's horn is used as a warning to another ship.  

 

well I guess that could be construed as a very loose interpretation of the rules ... Off the top of my head there are two instances for the use of 'one prolonged blast' in the international rules

 

if approaching Southwest Pass, there is no TSS I see on the current charts, rather the area has 'fairways' which is a different thing but IS an 'entity' in the international rules.  And if not yet IN Southwest Pass, international rules would apply.  Yes a fairway is relatively narrow and 'close passes' are common.

 

Rule 34 e would apply 'when vessels are in sight of one another':

A vessel nearing a bend or an area of a channel or fairway where other vessels may be obstructed by an intervening obstruction shall sound one prolonged blast. Such signal shall be answered with a prolonged blast by any approaching vessel that may be within hearing distance ....

 

However OP says: It was an extremely foggy night

 

So then rule 35 applies "In or near an area of restricted visibility ..."    where 35a says 

A power driven vessel making way through the water shall sound at intervals of hot more than 2 minutes one prolonged blast.

 

[footnote: this area has a VTS in place: Vessel Traffic Service]

 

 

Edited March 6, 2019 by Capt_BJ

[Heidi13]

3 hours ago, identitycrisis said:

 

I'm cross-posting this post-trip because I was curious about something that happened late the last night of a recent NCL cruise. It was around 11:30 pm, we were in our balcony room packing, and we heard the ship sound a loud blast of its horn, like an emergency blast. We looked out the window, and we saw another cruise ship passing seriously, uncomfortably close to us. Like, much closer than seemed advisable... I hate to guess the distance but, maybe 30 yards away?  I've seen other ships sailing alongside us, but they were always well in the distance. 

 

Was it a near collision? Is this normal? I doubt the cruise line would admit anything nearly happened, but I've never experienced that, but I've only been on a few cruises.

Wouldn't their radar make this impossible? It was an extremely foggy night, and we were coming into the port of New Orleans.

 

Thanks for your thoughts.  We were actually really shaken up. 

If it was extremely foggy, the ship when underway and making way through the water should have been sounding a prolonged blast (6 secs) at least every 2 minutes. This permits the lookout sufficient time to hear sound signals from other vessels. This isn't an emergency signal, it is a normal sound signal in fog.

 

Distances at sea are traditionally extremely difficult to judge, especially at night and even worse in restricted visibility.

 

Radar doesn't prevent collisions and in many cases has actually caused them, we actually have a term - radar assisted collision. Many have occurred and are used in simulators around the world as teaching opportunities. The base radar only displays a target on the screen on the bearing and distance from the ship, however the latest automatic plotting aides (ARPA's) provide course, speed, closest point of approach (CPA), time to CPA, bow cross, etc. The ARPA can also be overlaid on the electronic chart, as a further aid. However, all these tools help the Navigator process information, but don't stop collisions.

 

Having only sailed in this region once about 40 years ago, I cannot remember the approaches, so would agree with the post by Chengkp is a likely cause. In traffic separation schemes, ships must either follow the lane or cross at almost 90 degree and in busy waterways it can get congested, especially if the channel is narrow.

 

I have operated large ships in narrow channels at 20 kts, passing our opposite number multiple times daily at a distance of 1 cable (608 ft) and many pax think it was so close they could throw a ball between the ships. Many thought we were closer to the other ship than the shore, but we were only 0.8 cable from shore.

[chengkp75]

Hey, Capt;

 

I can remember the days when the tankers used to play "Sabine chicken" going into the Sabine River between Texas and Louisiana.  The channel was so narrow that the pilots would essentially aim for the meeting ship, and at the last moment throw the helm over and let the bow wave push the two ships apart.  You could literally pass a coffee cup between bridge wings in those days.  Those cowboy days are past, and they've got one way traffic for the widebodies today.  My BIL was Mate on a container ship going up the Rio Platte to Buenos Aires, and was passing a large tanker, and "canal effect" sucked the two ships together and took out a lifeboat on the side of his container ship.

 

Forgot about the fact of the fog, yeah, that would have been the fog signal (way more used to the "bell and gong" from being anchored in fog awaiting entrance to port).  As you say, ARPA systems will normally give a CPA, and the ship will set a CPA alarm, and when a target has a CPA less than the alarm distance, they will get on the radio right quick, and also (especially in fog) on the phone to get the old man up.

[Capt_BJ]

I can remember the days when the tankers used to play "Sabine chicken" going into the Sabine River between Texas and Louisiana.  The channel was so narrow that the pilots would essentially aim for the meeting ship, and at the last moment throw the helm over and let the bow wave push the two ships apart.  

 

I heard it as 'Texas Chicken' and not only real and still in practice today but when I went to a ship handling school - one with radio models on a 'pool' and the big ride in models on a lake etc ..... it was a 'skill' that was taught and practiced.  NAVY had their own school like this at Little Creek Amphib' Base Norfolk back in the 80's similar to what many commercial entities run today. Navy had accurate models of various classes of ships. It was felt they needed their own as they had ships with much different handling characteristics than a typical tanker or freighter of the time altho one model WAS a tanker to demonstrate 'low power, single screw, small single rudder' ship handling versus certain classes described as "high power, twin screw, twin large rudder".  Eventually budget cuts killed the school but I learned a LOT not to mention just had a blast for 5 days.  Friend of mine was an instructor so there were certain deviations from the official syllabus.

 

https://bill37mccurdy.com/2015/02/20/texas-chicken-game-in-houston-ship-channel/

 

 

 

Edited March 6, 2019 by Capt_BJ

[Capt_BJ]

another video, this from 14 I believe ...

 

 

bumping into each other while at the pier is kinda like backing into someone in the parking lot of the food mart .... embarrassing but USUALLY not a huge deal ... maybe a lil paint ... a lil bondo .... maybe knock out a few dents.  So long as no holes result ... not a huge deal most of the time.  

 

In ship driver school one of the big concepts to grasp is not that SPEED aka VELOCITY is the big issue ... it is MOMENTUM ... which is the product of MASS and VELOCITY.  On a ship there is SO MUCH MORE mass, small deviations in speed are HUGE while your brakes are TINY and turning can take 'forever'. It is a ***** to try and overcome MOMENTUM.  Airplane pilots like to point out they have to be on the game because things happen so fast ...... ship driving is more like a game of chess, you better be thinking 10 or 20 minutes ahead cuz things happen very slow (most of the time)

Edited March 6, 2019 by Capt_BJ

[SantaFeFan]

1 hour ago, Capt_BJ said:

I can remember the days when the tankers used to play "Sabine chicken" going into the Sabine River between Texas and Louisiana.  The channel was so narrow that the pilots would essentially aim for the meeting ship, and at the last moment throw the helm over and let the bow wave push the two ships apart.  

 

I heard it as 'Texas Chicken' and not only real and still in practice today but when I went to a ship handling school - one with radio models on a 'pool' and the big ride in models on a lake etc ..... it was a 'skill' that was taught and practiced.  NAVY had their own school like this at Little Creek Amphib' Base Norfolk back in the 80's similar to what many commercial entities run today. Navy had accurate models of various classes of ships. It was felt they needed their own as they had ships with much different handling characteristics than a typical tanker or freighter of the time altho one model WAS a tanker to demonstrate 'low power, single screw, small single rudder' ship handling versus certain classes described as "high power, twin screw, twin large rudder".  Eventually budget cuts killed the school but I learned a LOT not to mention just had a blast for 5 days.  Friend of mine was an instructor so there were certain deviations from the official syllabus.

 

 

That was an interesting video. Thanks for posting it!!!

[jocap]

Going north after Lisbon towards Southampton, into busy shipping lanes, we heard the blast and the ship made a huge lurch to port. We were on the balcony and saw a small container ship crossing right in front of us- you could see the wake, and where they had crossed. The captain came on and said that there had been an unexpected move by a ship ahead of us.

Not a ship this time, but we were moored in Casablanca when a small crane ran down the dock and smashed into the aft port side. It damaged  the balcony railings and Perspex on the corner of one deck.

[Heidi13]

9 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

My BIL was Mate on a container ship going up the Rio Platte to Buenos Aires, and was passing a large tanker, and "canal effect" sucked the two ships together and took out a lifeboat on the side of his container ship.

 

Chief,

 

First time I saw it was when I was still a cadet and going through the Suez Canal back in the 70's when it wasn't as wide. Heading South the bow suddenly sheered to Port as the stern got sucked into the bank. Remember the pilot getting a little excited. Captain was excellent, as the next day he sat down with me and explained the dynamics of what happened.

 

Lately, we dealt with a similar effect almost daily, on bow dockings when other ships were in an adjacent berth. Since we weren't fully secured on quick turnarounds, we kept pushing into the dock with M/E's.

 

On approach, when hitting the prop wash of a docked vessel our bow got pushed away, then just before final docking we got suction from the wheels, which caused a sheer, as the wheels got sucked together. However, with loads of HP, twin CP props, big high-lift rudders and bow thrusters we most likely had a much easier time responding to the interaction than your BIL experienced on a box boat. First few times were white knuckle, but after that we didn't even notice it.

 

 

[Krazy Kruizers]

Quite a few years ago we were all awakened about 3:30 AM when a small fishing boat cut in front of us -- doing a New England/Canada cruise.  In order to not destroy the fishing boat and probably killing the fishers on board, we had to make a very sharp turn -- also blasted our whistles.  On damage to our ship or the small fishing boat but lots of damage inside our ship.  Items fell off the shelfs in the shops -- some broke.  In the bars, many glasses fell and broke.  In the Neptune Lounge, dishes fell and broke, same thing happened in the kitchen.  No damage in our cabin but other cabins reported bottles and glasses falling to the floor and breaking.

[jagsfan]

49 minutes ago, Krazy Kruizers said:

Quite a few years ago we were all awakened about 3:30 AM when a small fishing boat cut in front of us -- doing a New England/Canada cruise.  In order to not destroy the fishing boat and probably killing the fishers on board, we had to make a very sharp turn -- also blasted our whistles.  On damage to our ship or the small fishing boat but lots of damage inside our ship.  Items fell off the shelfs in the shops -- some broke.  In the bars, many glasses fell and broke.  In the Neptune Lounge, dishes fell and broke, same thing happened in the kitchen.  No damage in our cabin but other cabins reported bottles and glasses falling to the floor and breaking.

And the fishermen had to go home and change their pants!

[chengkp75]

26 minutes ago, jagsfan said:

And the fishermen had to go home and change their pants!

No, they do this all the time.  The rules of the road give boats actively engaged in fishing the right of way, and they will tend to exert this right of way regardless of the circumstances.

[identitycrisis]

22 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

It sounds like you were in the "traffic separation scheme" approaching Southwest Pass.  These are areas where ship traffic is supposed to travel, where it is guaranteed to be deep enough for ocean-going ships.  When ships pass each other in these channels, they can be pretty close together.  One prolonged blast of the ship's horn is used as a warning to another ship.  What it sounds like is that one ship was passing your ship, and doing so with both ships at high speed.  In shallow waters, two ships passing like this can create a low pressure in the water between them, and the two ships get sucked towards each other.  While not frequent, this phenomenon is fairly common.  Ships passing in channels will frequently be less than 50 yards apart.

Thanks, this sounds like a probable explanation and is somewhat reassuring? My husband thinks it was more like 30 feet, he said you could clearly see the other ship's balcony. 

[jagsfan]

3 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

No, they do this all the time.  The rules of the road give boats actively engaged in fishing the right of way, and they will tend to exert this right of way regardless of the circumstances.

Our Maine cousins have had it scared out of them a couple of times. 

One of them them tends to shake his fist at the ships and yell his Maine cuss words at them. 

(He’s a graduate of the Maine Maritime Academy and sailed on Texaco tankers for a while.)

The ships shrug their shoulders and continue on their way. 

[nobog]

Not with a ship but with a helicopter:

 

South of Iceland, 9:00am, crows nest, very foggy, what's that noise?  Dead on I see a 'copter veer off, couldn't have been 100 ft from a front off crash, off to starboard it goes as I turn my head and out loud say "holy s***" I apologize to the only other person within range, I ask around later to the ships officers and they know "nothing".  

 

JK

[FredT]

About 10 years ago we were returning to New Orleans on a Norwegian cruise, (In dense fog) at about 10 pm when the ENTIRE horizon lit up and a Carnival ship passed us outbound.  When I say that you could have tossed a baseball between ships, I mean to say that my 10 year old son could have tossed the ball.......  (And yes, we were not in the open ocean at the time but somewhere in a channel) 20 seconds later the entire horizon was dark again, and we continued on our  way.  

 

Oh yeah, we were in their version of the "Crows Nest" at the time, and that particular ship had a repeater of the ships radar up there, as well as a spiral staircase descending to a viewing room just aft of the bridge.   Each time we saw a "target", we ran outside onto the deck to watch it emerge from the fog.  

 

Impressive to say the least, and one of the best memories I have off any cruise. 

[MicCanberra]

We had a close shave on a ship coming into Hawaii (2013) but luckily no damage done and no one hurt. Lots of talk about the incident at dinner that night.