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Loritd

Muster drill outside???

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We are currently on the Valor leaving New Orleans and the muster drill was outside on deck 4. It is 87 degrees figuring in the humidity it feels like 95. Why on earth did we stand outside? There were no seats and Several older people looked like they were going to fall over. We were on the Paradise out of Tampa two months ago and we were inside. Which is the norm for Carnival?  

?

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You are assuming there is a norm, fleet-wide......

but I suspect that conditions/resources per ship apply, and so muster drill

is held (by law!) wherever practical, at that time, for that sailing?

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I know all Conquest, Fantasy and Spirit Class all have all or some portion outside. There may be more.   That said, they do have a alternate location for those with disabilities. Just check with Guest Services when you board. I know on the Freedom they put us in one of the restaurants. 

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Carnival has ZERO control over where muster is held. When a ship is built the governing body SOLAS (Safety of Life at Sea, I believe the acronym stands for) designates what muster stations are needed and where they are conducted. They prefer to have the muster as close to the lifeboats as possible, but on the newer ships that's not possible, which is why they are now often conducted in the (air-conditioned) theaters and dining rooms.

 

Don't blame Carnival, their staff would prefer to do this in the AC as well, and having people pass out from the heat is no fun for them either!

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For people that can't stand, they should ask to go to the "disabled" muster location inside. I have a bad back and cannot stand for that long and always go to the disabled station, after checking in at my regular muster station. When I cruised on the Valor, I was sent directly to Churchills when the attendant noticed I was in pain.

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1 hour ago, Shaded Lady said:

Carnival has ZERO control over where muster is held. When a ship is built the governing body SOLAS (Safety of Life at Sea, I believe the acronym stands for) designates what muster stations are needed and where they are conducted. They prefer to have the muster as close to the lifeboats as possible, but on the newer ships that's not possible, which is why they are now often conducted in the (air-conditioned) theaters and dining rooms.

 

Don't blame Carnival, their staff would prefer to do this in the AC as well, and having people pass out from the heat is no fun for them either!

SOLAS does not dictate where a muster drill is to be held. By your own statement there is no requirement to hold them in a certain place.They will require a certain number of stations and lifeboats but the following is the very basic requirement under SOLAS:

The Safety of Life at Sea convention requirements are fairly basic when it comes to muster drill procedures. (SOLAS is the international basis for maritime regulations and has been adopted by the International Maritime Organization, which itself is part of the U.N.) These requirements simply state that for a voyage where passengers are to be onboard for more than 24 hours, "a muster of the passengers shall take place within 24 hours after their embarkation. Passengers shall be instructed in the use of life jackets and the action to take in an emergency."

For those times when a ship decides not to hold a drill before or at sailing, SOLAS states that "a passenger safety briefing shall be given immediately before sailing, or immediately after sailing."

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After Concordia, the rules were amended that muster must happen prior to sailing.

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All I know is that the sites for muster are determined when the ship is constructed. And yes, we've done muster outside in 100+ degree heat on the Triumph (when it was in Galveston) and it sucked greatly. I smelled things I've never smelled before or since. After a couple of times of THAT though, we decided to start requesting to attend the special needs muster drill because my son (who is autistic) couldn't handle it. It was a combination of being squashed into a group of 200 people in a tight space (not fun for anyone, but really not fun for somebody with sensory issues), boredom and the heat.

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12 hours ago, Bookbug53 said:

SOLAS does not dictate where a muster drill is to be held. By your own statement there is no requirement to hold them in a certain place.They will require a certain number of stations and lifeboats but the following is the very basic requirement under SOLAS:

The Safety of Life at Sea convention requirements are fairly basic when it comes to muster drill procedures. (SOLAS is the international basis for maritime regulations and has been adopted by the International Maritime Organization, which itself is part of the U.N.) These requirements simply state that for a voyage where passengers are to be onboard for more than 24 hours, "a muster of the passengers shall take place within 24 hours after their embarkation. Passengers shall be instructed in the use of life jackets and the action to take in an emergency."

For those times when a ship decides not to hold a drill before or at sailing, SOLAS states that "a passenger safety briefing shall be given immediately before sailing, or immediately after sailing."

While you are somewhat correct regarding muster drill timing and drill requirements (as noted you are quoting pre-Concordia requirements for timing), what you are not looking at are the construction and arrangement requirements for muster stations.

 

SOLAS Chapter III/B, Regulation 11 lists the requirements for muster station location for all ships, and Regulation 25 lists the additional requirements for passenger ships:

 

Regulation 11.1 "Muster stations shall be provided close to the embarkation stations.  Each muster station shall have sufficient clear deck space to accommodate all persons assigned to muster at that station, but at least 0.35m2."

 

Regulation 25.1: In addition to regulation 11, muster stations must "be in the vicinity of, and permit ready access for passengers to, the embarkation station, unless in the same location"

 

Muster stations are designated at new construction by the classification societies, after determining that the locations meet SOLAS and the class society's rules for ingress and egress, fire protection, lighting and ventilation, and the overriding requirement is SOLAS' requirement that the muster station be at or near the embarkation station (where you actually board the lifeboat).  For practical purposes, for cruise ships, this means on the promenade deck under the boats.  Newer vessels have reduced the size of the promenade decks (and some older ships did not have sufficient outside deck space), so the use of indoor muster stations became required.  As part of this design review by class, alternative muster locations are designated, again if they meet the requirements for space and the other details noted above, and also special needs locations.  However, if a cruise line wished to change muster locations from outdoors to indoors, they would have to show class a valid safety reason for doing so (passenger comfort is not a concern in an emergency), and all such new locations would be subject to study using crowd and crisis management paradigms to determine their fitness to be a muster location, or if this was an original alternative station, then a further alternative station would have to be found.  This and all the changes to documentation and signage on the ship costs a lot of money, has very little chance of showing a safety requirement for the change, which is why you will not find any cruise ship changing their original muster station locations during the life span of the vessel.

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All the newer ships , Dream ,Magic , Breeze ,Vista , Horizon  are held inside ,The older ships are outside 

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The Vista was the only ship I been on where they had the Muster inside in the MDR. The rest have all been outside.

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3 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Muster stations are designated at new construction by the classification societies, after determining that the locations meet SOLAS and the class society's rules for ingress and egress, fire protection, lighting and ventilation, and the overriding requirement is SOLAS' requirement that the muster station be at or near the embarkation station (where you actually board the lifeboat).  For practical purposes, for cruise ships, this means on the promenade deck under the boats.  Newer vessels have reduced the size of the promenade decks (and some older ships did not have sufficient outside deck space), so the use of indoor muster stations became required.  As part of this design review by class, alternative muster locations are designated, again if they meet the requirements for space and the other details noted above, and also special needs locations.  However, if a cruise line wished to change muster locations from outdoors to indoors, they would have to show class a valid safety reason for doing so (passenger comfort is not a concern in an emergency), and all such new locations would be subject to study using crowd and crisis management paradigms to determine their fitness to be a muster location, or if this was an original alternative station, then a further alternative station would have to be found.  This and all the changes to documentation and signage on the ship costs a lot of money, has very little chance of showing a safety requirement for the change, which is why you will not find any cruise ship changing their original muster station locations during the life span of the vessel.

 

Thanks again for the thorough explanation.  

 

This got me wondering about Carnival's redone ships, the Sunshine (formerly Destiny) and Sunrise (formerly Triumph).  Do/did those ships have to have their muster stations changed, since they were stretched, cabins added, and promenade deck space possibly changed?  

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1 hour ago, Honolulu Blue said:

 

Thanks again for the thorough explanation.  

 

This got me wondering about Carnival's redone ships, the Sunshine (formerly Destiny) and Sunrise (formerly Triumph).  Do/did those ships have to have their muster stations changed, since they were stretched, cabins added, and promenade deck space possibly changed?  

We were on the Sunshine in March and although some of the Muster Stations were inside, our station was out on the deck

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3 hours ago, Crusin Hogs said:

All the newer ships , Dream ,Magic , Breeze ,Vista , Horizon  are held inside ,The older ships are outside 

 

Not true, we have been on the Fascination 3 times and the muster drill has always been inside. 

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5 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

While you are somewhat correct regarding muster drill timing and drill requirements (as noted you are quoting pre-Concordia requirements for timing), what you are not looking at are the construction and arrangement requirements for muster stations.

 

SOLAS Chapter III/B, Regulation 11 lists the requirements for muster station location for all ships, and Regulation 25 lists the additional requirements for passenger ships:

 

Regulation 11.1 "Muster stations shall be provided close to the embarkation stations.  Each muster station shall have sufficient clear deck space to accommodate all persons assigned to muster at that station, but at least 0.35m2."

 

Regulation 25.1: In addition to regulation 11, muster stations must "be in the vicinity of, and permit ready access for passengers to, the embarkation station, unless in the same location"

 

Muster stations are designated at new construction by the classification societies, after determining that the locations meet SOLAS and the class society's rules for ingress and egress, fire protection, lighting and ventilation, and the overriding requirement is SOLAS' requirement that the muster station be at or near the embarkation station (where you actually board the lifeboat).  For practical purposes, for cruise ships, this means on the promenade deck under the boats.  Newer vessels have reduced the size of the promenade decks (and some older ships did not have sufficient outside deck space), so the use of indoor muster stations became required.  As part of this design review by class, alternative muster locations are designated, again if they meet the requirements for space and the other details noted above, and also special needs locations.  However, if a cruise line wished to change muster locations from outdoors to indoors, they would have to show class a valid safety reason for doing so (passenger comfort is not a concern in an emergency), and all such new locations would be subject to study using crowd and crisis management paradigms to determine their fitness to be a muster location, or if this was an original alternative station, then a further alternative station would have to be found.  This and all the changes to documentation and signage on the ship costs a lot of money, has very little chance of showing a safety requirement for the change, which is why you will not find any cruise ship changing their original muster station locations during the life span of the vessel.

 

Thanks so much for chiming in here, chengkp75! I was actually paraphrasing your previous posts in my original comment, so I was grateful when you weighed in here so everyone understands the true origin of the muster station!

 

As always, your knowledge and experience benefits us all!

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I have been outside many times.  It is not the end of the world.

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2 hours ago, ray98 said:

I have been outside many times.  It is not the end of the world.

 

It isn’t.

 

But when you are leaving out of Port Canaveral, in the middle of July in 95 degree heat, and your muster station is on the Lido Deck and lasts over 30 minutes with really no shade or overhang (On the Pre refurbished Sensation) . . . Its a crappy way to kick of your vacation.

 

More than a few people passed out and needed medical help that day.

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8 minutes ago, kdawg954 said:

 

It isn’t.

 

But when you are leaving out of Port Canaveral, in the middle of July in 95 degree heat, and your muster station is on the Lido Deck and lasts over 30 minutes with really no shade or overhang (On the Pre refurbished Sensation) . . . Its a crappy way to kick of your vacation.

 

More than a few people passed out and needed medical help that day.

It's always hot. It's Florida. 

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7 minutes ago, Doggielover68 said:

It's always hot. It's Florida. 

 

True, but combine that with the sun blasting you for 40 minutes and being surrounded by what had to be at least 200 people . . .there was a complete lack of air flow and a whole lot of humidity.  Plus they tell you not to bring drinks to the muster drill.  Many people still had on travel clothes, not swim trunks.

 

Its not a proper venue to hold something as important as a muster drill . . . Especially if you want people to pay attention and not suffer from a heat stroke.

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3 hours ago, mamiamjo said:

We were on the Sunshine in March and although some of the Muster Stations were inside, our station was out on the deck

 

Good to know, thanks.  I wonder if the Destiny always had inside muster stations.  I don't think the Triumph did, and it was a sister ship to the Destiny.

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38 minutes ago, kdawg954 said:

 

It isn’t.

 

But when you are leaving out of Port Canaveral, in the middle of July in 95 degree heat, and your muster station is on the Lido Deck and lasts over 30 minutes with really no shade or overhang (On the Pre refurbished Sensation) . . . Its a crappy way to kick of your vacation.

 

More than a few people passed out and needed medical help that day.

 

It is a trip starting from Florida going to an even hotter area on the globe.  It is going to be hot.

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I wait around a bit before going to muster (before crew starts looking for me though haha). I get claustrophobic with that many people and panic can set in..Add 90 degree heat and sunshine and a heart condition...and it can be really rough. My first cruise, I showed up as soon as possible..and I was against the wall with rows and rows of people in front of me. I learned :)

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1 minute ago, ray98 said:

 

It is a trip starting from Florida going to an even hotter area on the globe.  It is going to be hot.

 

Again I totally get that.  And Im sure those places you will have access to a pool/beach or at the very least be well equipped with the proper clothing for the day if you are walking.

 

Being surrounded by 200 people, literally arm to arm, with the sun blasting and many people getting off planes and in normal clothes, waiting for a muster drill . . . .is not the same as going to the beach with your family.

 

Hell I am from South Florida and I wasn’t expecting that environment for muster . . . It wasn’t proper . . . And I was in a tanktop and shorts.  

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4 hours ago, LittleYiaYia said:

Not true, we have been on the Fascination 3 times

and the muster drill has always been inside. 

.

Maybe so but

did you board at Barbados? where less than 100 ppl board, generally-speaking?

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