Are you bothered by discount TAs buying blocks of Seabourn suites?

[SLSD]

Actually, I am not  extremely bothered by discount tickets and now receive the emails from the travel agent mentioned by the passenger in the muster station.  If and when a SB cruise comes up in the TA's emails that is a time that works for us and an itinerary we wish to take, we will jump on it.  His customers give him good reviews and seem quite happy.  

 

I was just looking back at the TA's emails yesterday and then remembered a woman we met at the Observation Bar lamenting that she did not like this TA selling large blocks of discounted suites.  As I said above, I only listened and did not discuss her reasons with her. 

 

I am a very curious person and just wanted to ask the questions I asked.  Does this kind of discount selling hurt the brand---in your estimation?  I think it is a topic worthy of discussion. 

 

Do I want to sail with boorish pushy people?  No, I do not.  Do I want to sail with people who dress sloppily?  This doesn't bother me as much, to tell the truth, even though if I was totally in charge, I would prefer people to dress with more care.  But, I am not in charge and never will be.    

 

I do not think you can stereotype people who are looking for a good deal.   When we were stuck in the Vancouver Airport for 14 hours with cancelled flights, we got to know a number of people who had been on a Holland America Alaskan cruise.  In the midst of conversations on other topics, we told them all about the discount travel agent and his deals.  All of these people were people I would be happy to sail with anytime.

 

If it were possible to do so, I would tell everyone here the name of the TA so that you all could be on the lookout for good deals on SB.   

 

At the same time, like some of you, I don't want SB to become a bargain cruise line because, as some of you fear, it might  eventuallylead to a less luxury experience.  It will be interesting to see HOW MANY emails I get about SB cruises from this TA.  (He also deals with many other cruise lines  Azamara, Holland America being two he has showcased lately. ) 

Edited June 19, 2019 by SLSD

[Hoyaheel]

Perspective is important too. It's not like a discount TA is going to be able to make a $1200 per day Seabourn cabin available for $200. But maybe you can get it for $900 and some additional perks. Those are the kinds of prices I've seen come through. Good deals, but not "cheap" deals. It's still Seabourn.

 

People say TAs are important (I *hate* working with a TA because I do all my own research and love travel planning - I only do it when I can get a better $ deal). How do you find a good TA? You ask other travelers. That has been recommended (to me and others) constantly since I became a member of CC over a decade ago.  If I got a good deal, I'd want to share the info with other interested travelers - and I can't do it here, so....

[SLSD]

Hoyaheel, Personally, I hate travel planning and do not enjoy one single minute of it.  My husband dislikes it even more than I do, so I get to do all of our travel planning.  You absolutely have to do some of it for yourself I think.  

 

In the case of this discount TA, the perks are considerable as they include air, hotels on either end, meals (dinner when staying at the hotel) and transfers (which, CAN be pricey).  The best I could tell (without putting pen to paper and doing the math), the discount TA was able to do the Kobe to Vancouver itinerary PLUS air fares, hotels on both ends, meals (see above) and transfers  (both ends) for about the same as we paid for the cruise fare alone.  That is a considerable savings.  I see this as more than just perks.  It tells me that he bought the block of suites for a lump sum discount and was able to add the other things and STILL make money.  

 

Of course we stayed in very fine hotels of our choosing, dined on  what we wanted when we wanted, had private transfers by car and flew Business Class to Japan.  So, there you have it.  

 

 

Edited June 19, 2019 by SLSD

[offtoalaska]

I come from a culture where talking about money is looked down upon with the exception of trivial things such as consumer products.  But I must admit I'm always curious about home sale prices and corporate salaries and now cruise costs.  The internet has made those things easier to get (realtor.com; glassdoor...) With that being said I'd be interested to know of the TA who can offer big deals.  Before we booked our April cruise on the Quest I contacted three different agencies and the trip cost was almost exactly the same.  This topic has me curious but my web searches have not come up with any TA that stands out.  Our next cruise, Holiday Antarctica on the Quest,  exceeds our normal cruise budget so I'm hoping we are not missing  out on any big discounts.

Edited June 19, 2019 by offtoalaska
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[brittany12]

 Another aspect nobody is considering. Big blocks of unsold SB cruises that the TA buys and then blasts out shortly before departure as big discounts to his special clients prevents the rest of unknowing ones from getting big discount offers direct from SB, as the time for the  cruise approaches. 

We all know SB does this as the time for the cruise gets nearer - but if they have no inventory left to sell because they have dumped  all with the Discount TA, we are all out of luck.

[SLSD]

brittany12, good point. It would be nice is SB offered the discounts directly. I'm sure they think they cannot do this because those already booked would be asking for the same deal.  Another way to think about it---SB giving discounts to TAs instead of to loyal passengers who have already given them a future cruise deposit.  Just a thought.  

 

offtoalaska, This TA just advertised a February Antartica cruise aboard the Quest.  I wish I could tell you the name.  I've done some generic searched and his name does not come up.  

Edited June 19, 2019 by SLSD

[ed01106]

3 minutes ago, SLSD said:

brittany12, good point. It would be nice is SB offered the discounts directly. I'm sure they think they cannot do this because those already booked would be asking for the same deal.  

 

Bingo...It is called market segmentation.  People who want to pick out their exact stateroom and plan things out months in advance pay one rate.....folks willing to go or not go on short notice, get no choice of room, don't mind if they miss out on the most popular itineraries get a different rate.  

[SLSD]

ed01106, Of course there are those who choose an OB as we did for the first time on our recent cruise.  We ended up with a suite I preferred over the other suites we had chosen specifically!  

 

And what is the exact definition of market segmentation?  I'm interested in knowing more about the concept.  It is the same idea as charging for kayaking so that those who pay are the same subset of passengers who are more likely to be able to do the activity?

[ed01106]

8 minutes ago, SLSD said:

And what is the exact definition of market segmentation?  I'm interested in knowing more about the concept.  It is the same idea as charging for kayaking so that those who pay are the same subset of passengers who are more likely to be able to do the activity?

 

Basically charging different types of customers different prices.  Airlines a the true masters of this. How can a round trip ticket cost four times much if I don't stay over on a Saturday night than if I do?

 

Exact same disposable razor - pink one cost more than the blue one.  Why?  I dunno. Pink paint more expensive?   

 

Same company manufactures name brand and a generic version of their product that sells at different price point.  

 

The important thing (for the business) is if you offer a discount to get rid of surplus product you don't allow this to create downward pressure on the price to your existing customer base.  Which is why Seaborne uses a third party to get rid of excess inventory rather than doing it directly.    

[SLSD]

Thank you ed01106, very helpful explanation of market segmentation.   I just did another quick look at the emails (I've saved them all) and see that there is a SB cruise this fall where the discount TA has 60 suites--that's likely 120 passengers.  I think that is a fairly major portion of the passengers onboard.  I think THIS is where it begins to feel a bit unfair to the other passengers---especially when the deal holders are boastful and in your face about it.  Of course we just had that one conversation, but perhaps the woman at the Observation Bar who cruises a lot had been subjected to more--and that was why she was unhappy. 

 

But, let's think about this---this would be 120 passengers out of 400 or so.  The TA says the suites sold out within an hour.  

 

Looking at their offer on the cruise immediately before the cruise with 60 discount suites:  the discounter had 80 suites---that about 160 people out of the total passengers.  

Edited June 19, 2019 by SLSD

[toseaornottosea]

Somewhat off topic but related.  I just took a look at the Seabourn website.  We are booked on a cruise on the Ovation in the fall and the price for the suite category we booked is now $1,900 less per person than the price we paid, with plenty of suites available that one can select by suite number.  I have contacted my TA, a large nationwide agency, requesting they contact Seabourn to determine if they will honor the lesser rate.  However, I don't hold out much hope that they will.

[2SailingNomads]

It is a corporate decision to put "butts in seats" as it is commonly called in various other businesses.  If it bothers you that someone else got a better deal than you did then next time take advantage of the great offers you claim you are now getting.    I would not disparage someone who told me they got a great deal, I met someone on a cruise last year who the first conversation told me how he had scored a great last minute deal - good for them, after seeing and talking with them multiple times we loved spending time with both him and his wife.  And I really could not care if they saved money on the same cruise - which we booked only a few months out after several price drops.  I book a specific cruise because I want to be on it, some people might be more price sensitive and scour websites for last minute deals.  Doesn't bother me if they got a better deal, and as others have pointed out airline seat prices vary greatly.  If someone told you they paid $300 for the same business class flight and you paid $2900 would you think it "lowered the value of the brand"?   I have to agree w/ WriPro's earlier comment about the title of this thread along w/ SunViking's post.  

[SLSD]

I think it is really hard to communicate online.  The issue is not really that someone got a better deal---the issue is the overall situation with pricing and what it may mean.  I think some people understand what I am trying to communicate and others don't.  I remain quite pleased with our cruise fare on our last cruise.  

 

I am merely reading emails from this TA, not taking his deals.  I think he is not helping SB by stating so clearly how MANY suites he has.  Just my opinion--no one has to agree with me.  

Edited June 20, 2019 by SLSD

[adoctor]

We have to remember that in this global digital age there is far greater transparency in pricing and terms and conditions. The onus is on Seabourn to manage this.If they are dumping inventory their loyal customers will come to know.If prices are significantly lower in the USA than other markets their customers will come to know.If customers in the USA can cancel a booking without penalty and those in the UK lose their deposits then this will become known.

It is also worth remembering that sellers "train" their buyers.If you know that a product is regularly on special offer or sale in the store then you will come to know this and wait for the deal.(see the thread on this board about the right time to buy)

It is for these reasons that Seabourn need to be very careful. This a luxury brand.

The mass market pricing models have no place when marketing a luxury product.

I have no quarrel with the agent who can turn a buck on these cabins or with a consumer who gets a great deal.My beef is with Seabourn and the risk of lower standards to compensate for lower revenue per suite.

My simple rules for Seabourn:

1 Luxury brands need a scarcity value.Capacity planning is a vital skill.

2 Occupancy measurements have no place here.

3 Customer satisfaction and repeat bookings are your key measures.

4 Avoid short term discounting. It will just upset your loyalist who will find out.If you want to lower prices to attract a new demographic then fine but do it for all your customers.

5 If you deliver high standard you will create loyalty and delight your customers.They will be more than happy to pay the premium price and Seabourn will make higher returns as a result.Joining the downward spiral of discounting will have the opposite result.

Alaska here I come.Hope standards meet expectations!

[markham]

It seems to me that Seabourn is doing what it needs to in order to sell off certain inventories for certain cruises. I am sure that if they had more business up front and/or by a certain date, either through TA or direct sales, they would not engage any other scheme. That’s how markets work, like it or not, and it is up to Seabourn to please the cruise market and us individually to try a cruise and repeat with them. It is also up to that “discount TA” to please his customers with flights and transfers (if that’s what’s involved) and pay Seabourn what Seabourn  wants to recover from taking on the group.

 

As far as random, loud and boastful conversations go - and I can all too well visualize the big talkers at the lifeboat drill blathering on - that should be the worst moments of a Seabourn cruise. Unless you choose to speak to these characters again during the cruise and finally realize your mistake.

 

Happy and healthy sailing! 

[SLSD]

Very sensible comments Markham and you are right---no need to speak to those who blather again.  And yes, I do understand the market concepts.  I guess my shock is that as many as 160 passengers on one of the smaller ships could all be arriving from one TA as a result of SB fading their risks.  Now, I will just watch how this plays out.  

[brittany12]

Am I the only one who on several occasions has gotten the benefit of SB price drops along the road to the final booking payment?  I can think of several cruises when the original booked and usually high price drops, my TA always has gotten me the better price, and without ship board credits making up the difference. Some cruises several times. I assume it was a general practice with SB.  Airline pricing today with the way seats are sold is not the proper comparison.

[Jane21]

This travel agent in the US has been doing this for a number of years. We are UK based and first encountered large numbers booked through him in 2015.

 

If you are looking at a cruise that you know most years always has large numbers of vacancies 12 weeks out and very reasonable prices, you will find he has a large party aboard the ship. (I could name at least 6 voyages that he will have an offer on around 8-10 weeks before.) These are always OB offers and thus are no use to us as we book the higher category suites.

 

If waiting for his offer suits you and you are US/Canada based (travel is always included from North America) - you will get a great deal. Everyone I have heard on a ship that books with him are happy to tell everyone around the price they paid :-)

[SLSD]

1 hour ago, Jane21 said:

This travel agent in the US has been doing this for a number of years. We are UK based and first encountered large numbers booked through him in 2015.

 

If you are looking at a cruise that you know most years always has large numbers of vacancies 12 weeks out and very reasonable prices, you will find he has a large party aboard the ship. (I could name at least 6 voyages that he will have an offer on around 8-10 weeks before.) These are always OB offers and thus are no use to us as we book the higher category suites.

 

If waiting for his offer suits you and you are US/Canada based (travel is always included from North America) - you will get a great deal. Everyone I have heard on a ship that books with him are happy to tell everyone around the price they paid :-)

Jane21, Would you share with us the six voyages  you are referring to?  I'm sure several here would like to know.  Thank you.

[Jane21]

Hi

 

Dont want to get in trouble naming specific voyages but my tip would be: if you are considering one (or more) of Encore’s voyages on its usual itinerary from February to Early May in last few years, it would be worth you signing up to his news letter !! 

[Isklaar]

Well, I'm intrigued! 

[SLSD]

LOL Jane, or others might want to avoid these cruises instead of watching for a deal.  I can see that there are many ways of looking at this issue. 

 

[SLSD]

Isklaar, I like to start conversations where there is a conversation to be started.  That's the main reason I started this thread---glad there was something here which intrigued you.  Now, let's go and check out those sailings--which must not sell well---and try to see why.  

[ed01106]

Every cruise line does this to move excess inventory.  I think the difference is if a Carnival customer finds out someone else paid considerably less he may feel jealous or even ripped off, but he is extremely unlikely to feel that the presence of this budget traveler diminishes the cruise.  OTOH some SB cruisers sail SB not just for the superior service if offers over other lines but it’s exclusivity, and are bothered by the presence of the lower class passenger.   

 

Not unlike one person I know who loved his Tesla up until the model 3 came out.  Feeling the mass market model cheapened the brand.  Even though it did absolutely nothing to the car.