Requiem for Frequent Flyers miles

[Hawaiidan]

Well..... We heard that in November  UAL and AA were going to end their charts for mileage awards and  have a new demand system

What we did not know  was that  starting a few days ago the  quietly were changing hundreds of award levels  to obscene heights than normal people can never accrue

If your planning on using your FF miles and have not  booked your...well  screwed.      Make a plan B

Here are some changes that were posted in that  week:    Sit down, you might want to have a  strong drink  first   This is for business tr

US to Asia     old 160K       new  380

US Australia  old  160        new  400K       for 2 that'd  800,000 miles !!!! almost  1 million miles needed

west coast-  east coast    old 100K     new 200K    

Getting a credit credit card   and getting  60-70-80K   sign up bonus.....  today is laughable    You might be able to snag a flight from Burbank to Modesto

Its a who new game and to play today you needs not hundreds of thousands of miles  you will need millions........    

[Riverroad]

Guess we got lucky. Yesterday we got one-way Cathay Pacific SIN-HKG-EWR in business for 70,000 AA miles pp.

[Hawaiidan]

9 minutes ago, Riverroad said:

Guess we got lucky. Yesterday we got one-way Cathay Pacific SIN-HKG-EWR in business for 70,000 AA miles pp.

Tuesday  you could get a Polaris Business seat on a 787-10  trans con... for 60K    Wednesday morning it was 100K...  it even surprised the UAL res staff

 

[GeezerCouple]

16 minutes ago, Hawaiidan said:

Tuesday  you could get a Polaris Business seat on a 787-10  trans con... for 60K    Wednesday morning it was 100K...  it even surprised the UAL res staff

 

 

You don't seem to explore partner networks on various airlines programs.

You keep referring to the same problems you are encountering.

 

We also have had plenty of luck.  Recently.

GC

[Hawaiidan]

8 minutes ago, GeezerCouple said:

 

You don't seem to explore partner networks on various airlines programs.

You keep referring to the same problems you are encountering.

 

We also have had plenty of luck.  Recently.

GC

I use the entire star alliance network of dozens of airlines.....   I have been playing this game for over 25 years... trust me  I explore every option     Last week I got  Buisness Nice to LAX for 60 K   this week it is  280K pp  Swiss-UAL combo via LHR

  The changes appear to be happening daily NOW.   what you get at 8 am   by  5 pm  may be different.  This is a heads up....  thats all      Rates are changing  100-150% increases  ...... everyone is following Delta's  lead...  ( Delta showed 640 K  rt to Paris on some days  I read)

Edited July 11, 2019 by Hawaiidan

[CruiserBruce]

Just booked SFO-FCO in Business class for 70K per person for next May. Seeing lots of US to Europe standard awards of 155K for next summer....unchanged from the old standard.

[FlyerTalker]

The key is to not focus on acquiring USA airline miles.  Far better to build up points that are transferable to many different programs and then cash in using those programs, not to use AA, UA or DL.  For example, flights obtained through AF's Flying Blue program usually price out for less than the same flights with DL SkyPesos.  And there is often better inventory through FB than through Delta.  Ditto with Avianca, ANA and Asiana for Star Alliance awards.  Finally, for that person who wanted Singapore award seats in first - those are almost impossible to get through anyone other than SQ itself.

[RocketMan275]

Cash back cards looking better and better.

[FlyerTalker]

1 hour ago, RocketMan275 said:

Cash back cards looking better and better.

 

Only if you can't leverage your points to obtain a better return on your spend.  Which requires some effort and persistence.

 

Some prefer the ease and simplicity of a fixed return.  Others are willing to work on increasing the value of the return.  Neither is inherently "right"....just what is right is dependent on the priorities of each individual.

 

 

[RocketMan275]

29 minutes ago, FlyerTalker said:

 

Only if you can't leverage your points to obtain a better return on your spend.  Which requires some effort and persistence.

 

Some prefer the ease and simplicity of a fixed return.  Others are willing to work on increasing the value of the return.  Neither is inherently "right"....just what is right is dependent on the priorities of each individual.

 

 

Looks like 'increasing the value of the return' is becoming quite difficult.  Cash OTOH....

[GeezerCouple]

1 minute ago, RocketMan275 said:

Looks like 'increasing the value of the return' is becoming quite difficult.  Cash OTOH....

 

It may be a bit more difficult, but the value (to us anyway) is SO much greater.

 

And this is keeping in mind that we DO pay cash for J (Business) if we don't get awards tickets, so the argument that no one is really going to pay those prices... doesn't apply to us and the others who would indeed pay those higher fares.

 

And... we use a service, so for a relatively small fee, the work is done for us.

(And if there's no satisfactory tickets found, we don't pay.  Couldn't be better.  But thus far, they've always found something great for us, and in F!)

 

For those who prefer to travel in economy, using points may well not make much sense/cents...

 

GC

[RocketMan275]

9 minutes ago, GeezerCouple said:

 

It may be a bit more difficult, but the value (to us anyway) is SO much greater.

 

And this is keeping in mind that we DO pay cash for J (Business) if we don't get awards tickets, so the argument that no one is really going to pay those prices... doesn't apply to us and the others who would indeed pay those higher fares.

 

And... we use a service, so for a relatively small fee, the work is done for us.

(And if there's no satisfactory tickets found, we don't pay.  Couldn't be better.  But thus far, they've always found something great for us, and in F!)

 

For those who prefer to travel in economy, using points may well not make much sense/cents...

 

GC

My point was as long as the airlines continue to devalue the points, the better cash will look.   

[GeezerCouple]

9 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

My point was as long as the airlines continue to devalue the points, the better cash will look.   

 

Not as long as one can get much better value (for one's own purposes) by using the points instead.

That's what matters, for those who use the points.

I don't care if we get 4x the cash back we could have gotten, or 5x, or 'only' 2x - as long as it's more than a trivial amount more, we'll take the points and get the premium tickets. 

Others obviously don't prefer that. 

Fine.... makes it easier for us to *use* the points, if many are taking cash instead of points.

 

The fact that the points were "worth more" in past years?  So was cash...!

 

GC

[Hawaiidan]

1 hour ago, FlyerTalker said:

 

Only if you can't leverage your points to obtain a better return on your spend.  Which requires some effort and persistence.

 

Some prefer the ease and simplicity of a fixed return.  Others are willing to work on increasing the value of the return.  Neither is inherently "right"....just what is right is dependent on the priorities of each individual.

 

 

Agree.... I have switched to points from miles.   The potential tangible return for me in travel  far exceeds the meager dollars I would get in return....

Whatever your plan is  be aware the  rules of the game that were in place  for decades are  changing at a blinding speed.....   While some have gotten some  old deals recently, looking forward  it would be most un wise  to believe that the future looks relative  unchanged....   It is changing as we speak...    I checked june and later to Rome... and all 70K would get is a 1 way  basic economy  and the 155K....  becomes 240K 1 way !!!!   thats 480K rt     just a heads up

The light you see at the end of the tunnel is a train !!!

[RocketMan275]

33 minutes ago, GeezerCouple said:

 

Not as long as one can get much better value (for one's own purposes) by using the points instead.

That's what matters, for those who use the points.

I don't care if we get 4x the cash back we could have gotten, or 5x, or 'only' 2x - as long as it's more than a trivial amount more, we'll take the points and get the premium tickets. 

Others obviously don't prefer that. 

Fine.... makes it easier for us to *use* the points, if many are taking cash instead of points.

 

The fact that the points were "worth more" in past years?  So was cash...!

 

GC

You're not the only ones who do not travel in Economy.

[CruiserBruce]

56 minutes ago, Hawaiidan said:

Agree.... I have switched to points from miles.   The potential tangible return for me in travel  far exceeds the meager dollars I would get in return....

Whatever your plan is  be aware the  rules of the game that were in place  for decades are  changing at a blinding speed.....   While some have gotten some  old deals recently, looking forward  it would be most un wise  to believe that the future looks relative  unchanged....   It is changing as we speak...    I checked june and later to Rome... and all 70K would get is a 1 way  basic economy  and the 155K....  becomes 240K 1 way !!!!   thats 480K rt     just a heads up

The light you see at the end of the tunnel is a train !!!

Not sure what you are looking at. I am watching the Rome flights daily...have only seen a standard award of greater than 155K once, and haven't seen one since. But just an hour ago, I saw 20 or more 155K rates. All one ways, all Business.

[iancal]

We emptied our Delta point accounts last November.   AA plan emptied a few years ago.  Aerplan is almost there for me...25K left.  Used to be that our balances would be considerable and we would redeem them for business class.  No so for the past few years.  Last year we switched to a travel credit card.  So far we prefer it.

[Alaskanb]

9 hours ago, iancal said:

We emptied our Delta point accounts last November.   AA plan emptied a few years ago.  Aerplan is almost there for me...25K left.  Used to be that our balances would be considerable and we would redeem them for business class.  No so for the past few years.  Last year we switched to a travel credit card.  So far we prefer it.

What do you mean by a travel credit card? 

[iancal]

We get a rebate on all credit card purchases that can be applied to travel.

 

It was not just the points cost on the plans that drove us away.  Aeroplan had/has excessive admin fees that greatly de-valued the points.

Edited July 12, 2019 by iancal

[Gardyloo]

It's going to require a bit more work, but the value can still be significant.  For example, Alaska Airlines, which has many partners including Oneworld, Skyteam and non-alliance airlines, still has fixed award tiers including some amazing deals, for example one way on Cathay Pacific in first class from the contiguous US and Canada to Asia or the Middle East for 70,000 miles.  

 

Most airlines are definitely moving to "dynamic" pricing models for miles/points redemptions.  The downside is that more miles are usually needed for peak periods; but there is an upside - when they quote a number of miles for a given trip, it means there are actually seats available at that level.  This is different from the "award table" approach which might say you can fly for as little as X miles, but there are no seats available at that level - maybe ever, or maybe not until 72 hours before the flight.  Low redemption requirements don't mean anything if there aren't any seats available.  

 

There's no substitute for research and a little arithmetic to evaluate options.  How much are your miles worth?  If you say they're worth a penny each, and a flight costs 100,000 miles, could you purchase the same flight for $1000?  How hard is that to figure out?

[Hawaiidan]

3 hours ago, Gardyloo said:

It's going to require a bit more work, but the value can still be significant.  For example, Alaska Airlines, which has many partners including Oneworld, Skyteam and non-alliance airlines, still has fixed award tiers including some amazing deals, for example one way on Cathay Pacific in first class from the contiguous US and Canada to Asia or the Middle East for 70,000 miles.  

 

Most airlines are definitely moving to "dynamic" pricing models for miles/points redemptions.  The downside is that more miles are usually needed for peak periods; but there is an upside - when they quote a number of miles for a given trip, it means there are actually seats available at that level.  This is different from the "award table" approach which might say you can fly for as little as X miles, but there are no seats available at that level - maybe ever, or maybe not until 72 hours before the flight.  Low redemption requirements don't mean anything if there aren't any seats available.  

 

There's no substitute for research and a little arithmetic to evaluate options.  How much are your miles worth?  If you say they're worth a penny each, and a flight costs 100,000 miles, could you purchase the same flight for $1000?  How hard is that to figure out?

The  sad thing  is that many people do not figure that out and look on miles they get as "free" and do not think they have a tangible real value.  No matter how you got the miles via spending or bonus or  uncle bob gave them to you...   they have a $ value whe you spend them       So.... You can buy a rolex for a timex price...OR  you can buy the timex for the rolex price if you do not know what your doing.

[FlyerTalker]

45 minutes ago, Hawaiidan said:

The  sad thing  is that many people do not figure that out and look on miles they get as "free" and do not think they have a tangible real value.  No matter how you got the miles via spending or bonus or  uncle bob gave them to you...   they have a $ value whe you spend them

 

A piece of advice given to me long ago was...treat any kind of miles/points as a form of rebate.  Cashback is the obvious example, but all other points are also rebates on your purchase, just with a different "currency" than the dollars of cashback.

 

So, do you want dollars or SkyPesos or Membership Rewards or whatever?  And just as you would look at the exchange rates for the value of Euros or Rubles or Yen - so should you also make that evaluation for your points.  They are just an alternative currency in your "bank".

 

And as for the comments about "well, I got a free plane ticket" (or similar):  That wasn't free.  It was paid for, and paid in terms of the opportunity cost of the other "currency" you might have received, even in the form of cash.

[Hawaiidan]

7 minutes ago, FlyerTalker said:

 

A piece of advice given to me long ago was...treat any kind of miles/points as a form of rebate.  Cashback is the obvious example, but all other points are also rebates on your purchase, just with a different "currency" than the dollars of cashback.

 

So, do you want dollars or SkyPesos or Membership Rewards or whatever?  And just as you would look at the exchange rates for the value of Euros or Rubles or Yen - so should you also make that evaluation for your points.  They are just an alternative currency in your "bank".

 

And as for the comments about "well, I got a free plane ticket" (or similar):  That wasn't free.  It was paid for, and paid in terms of the opportunity cost of the other "currency" you might have received, even in the form of cash.

So correct.... Nothing is free.. it all has a price you paid. for with real money..your money or someones real money.    How you spend that real value/ money  credit , you received is very important to consider.  Your "free ticket" may have cost you $1200.00  to acquire the points miles,  But in reality you could have bought the very same ticket  and seat for 530.00 !!...  you    free ticket cost you $670 more !!!      

[RocketMan275]

Had a friend who was selected to attend a business meeting in Hawaii.  That 'free trip' cost him almost $4000.  Had to take his wife, two kids, and stayed four extra days to enjoy the islands.   I had turned that trip down because I couldn't afford a 'free trip'.

[pcur]

British Airways is still about the same points from London - MIA.  The "plus cash" is a little higher, but the points are the same.

 

When I'm looking to fly either domestic or international, I try to use Southwest and British Airways.  Our Chase Sapphire points can be transferred to both airlines.  If it's been over 4 years, I will also get a new BA credit card for both of us, and use them to pay for the cruise and hotels to make the minimum spend requirements.  Then, I combine all the points into our household account.