Tablecloths in MDR.

[cruisinmems]

I remember the first cruise my granddaughters (ages 5 and 7, at the time) went on after the tablecloths went away, and I can tell you the the first question out of their mouths when we walked into the dining room that 1st night.  Meme, where are the tablecloths?  They were pretty disappointed.  They thought it was special with all the silverware, glasses and nice stuff.  They insisted on wearing dresses to dinner every night of the cruise, and really sparkled it up on "fancy night".

[VentureMan_2000]

Perhaps I can request a 2-top... and when the wait staff is not looking, quickly place a one white tablecloth on the table...😂 

They'd be ready for me by the 3rd night, for sure...🤣

[Steve551]

On 9/3/2019 at 3:36 AM, ParrotRob said:

 

Just because something's a change I wouldn't call it a "cutback".  Wouldn't a "cutback" entail removing something with some sort of value?  What value are they taking away by changing the way tables are dressed?

Cutback:  an act or instance of reducing something, typically expenditures.

 

Not having table cloths each evening in the MDR reduces Carnival's expenditures AKA cutback:

The cost of the table cloths;

the cost of cleaning the table cloths;

the cost of handling the table cloths (placing/removing)

 

Some people "value" table cloths just like some value all the other"small" things that Carnival no longer does.

[Doggielover68]

1 minute ago, Steve551 said:

Cutback:  an act or instance of reducing something, typically expenditures.

 

Not having table cloths each evening in the MDR reduces Carnival's expenditures AKA cutback:

The cost of the table cloths;

the cost of cleaning the table cloths;

the cost of handling the table cloths (placing/removing)

 

Some people "value" table cloths just like some value all the other"small" things that Carnival no longer does.

 

Okay. If tableclothes are a cutback, what do you call the new Hub app? What about the ability to have pizza delivered anywhere on the ship? New ports being built? New ships? New menus?

 

It's called change. 

 

Tableclothes are not hygienic anyway. Lots of people have to handle those before they land on the table. It's much better to clean the table with a sanitizer solution.

 

Also a lot of people complain about the length of time dinner takes and/or the need to wait for a table. This reduces the amount of time it takes in between guests. 

 

I can't believe people are so uptight about a piece of fabric.

 

The horse is dead. Stop beating it.

[VentureMan_2000]

9 minutes ago, Doggielover68 said:

 

The horse is dead. Stop beating it.

 

 

Are you trying to get the last kick in... ? 🤣

[Steve551]

1 hour ago, Doggielover68 said:

 

Okay. If tableclothes are a cutback, what do you call the new Hub app? What about the ability to have pizza delivered anywhere on the ship? New ports being built? New ships? New menus?

 

It's called change. 

 

Tableclothes are not hygienic anyway. Lots of people have to handle those before they land on the table. It's much better to clean the table with a sanitizer solution.

 

Also a lot of people complain about the length of time dinner takes and/or the need to wait for a table. This reduces the amount of time it takes in between guests. 

 

I can't believe people are so uptight about a piece of fabric.

 

The horse is dead. Stop beating it.

Let's see, I'm gonna hit the horse one more time....

"What do you call the new Hub app?" I call it the Hub  App.

"What about the ability to have pizza delivered anywhere on the ship?"  I call it a way for Carnival to make money...it ain't free.

"New ports being built?"  Investment in future business...where do you think the money comes from?  That's right, cutbacks LOL

"New ships?"  if they weren't making money with them they wouldn't build them would they?

"New menus?" The old ones were wearing out. They only change once every 10-years or so.

"Table clothes are not hygienic anyway. Lots of people have to handle those before they land on the table." You mean they aren't as hygienic as the napkins (that you wipe your mouth with), or the dishes, or or the silverware, or those jars of butter, or the buffet line, or all of the surfaces of the ship?

 

"It's called change."  Of course it's change. All cutbacks are changes...

 

Just finished a cruise with Princess (Carnival's sister cruise line). Tablecloths every night; no one asked me if I wanted morning or evening cabin service, I got both...including little candies on my pillow; they even gave me a plastic pen; butter wasn't in a jar to be shared with everyone, it was cut into little pats; they still had the individual cereals; the list goes on.

 

Now you're going to say, "Just cruise with Princess if it's so good"...you were going to say that weren't you? I knew it!

[coevan]

2 hours ago, cruisinmems said:

I remember the first cruise my granddaughters (ages 5 and 7, at the time) went on after the tablecloths went away, and I can tell you the the first question out of their mouths when we walked into the dining room that 1st night.  Meme, where are the tablecloths?  They were pretty disappointed.  They thought it was special with all the silverware, glasses and nice stuff.  They insisted on wearing dresses to dinner every night of the cruise, and really sparkled it up on "fancy night".

 

 

Seriously? a 5 year old is cognitive of table clothes, tough pill to swallow, I'm sure the kids were aghast

[glrounds]

No Vegas level stage shows. No FREE slot tournament (now 2 for 1). No waiter congo line Baked Alaskan demonstration. No flaming cherries jubilee at each table. No twice per day cabin service. No chocolate squares on the pillow. No tablecloths. No topless sundeck. No past cruiser Free drink/ Carnival commercial get together. No Steakhouse for $35 anymore (those greedy bastards raised it $3 !).

 

NO INCREASE in an inside cabin rate from early 80s to today on newest ship in the fleet ! 😄😄

[coevan]

 

3 minutes ago, glrounds said:

No twice per day cabin service

 

Yes there is, every cruise

 

2 minutes ago, glrounds said:

No topless sundeck

 

 

you must be a guy

 

2 minutes ago, glrounds said:

No past cruiser Free drink

 

 

We get a free drink every cruise

[cruisinmems]

1 hour ago, coevan said:

 

 

Seriously? a 5 year old is cognitive of table clothes, tough pill to swallow, I'm sure the kids were aghast

Yes these girls are in tune to traditions and such, even the 5 year old whether you believe it or not.  Sorry you have such a hard time believing what someone says about their granddaughters and telling what they said.  Was just stating my girls' thoughts when they first seen it and how disappointed they were.  The dining experience is fun for them and sort of magical to little girls to get all dressed up and such.  Too bad you have a hard time swallowing that pill and you don't have to be a jerk about it.

[gatour]

22 hours ago, VentureMan_2000 said:

I thought I took this into consideration in my scenario...  Three times the number of tablecloths vs. the number of tables and number of table turnover per day...  actually replacing them every 4 weeks, even if not needed... (as opposed to waiting 6 months and then trying to re-dye them to somehow look decent -- I'm guessing for another 6 months ? )  Your scenario was nearly 40 years ago.  The cruise lines have high end machine that are used to launder the needs of 5,000 people and know how to use these machines, which is very cost efficient.  Not a big deal for them to launder 500 tablecloths a day.

Your establishment required the employees of the restaurant to do the laundering.  Laundering for one or two hundred customers... not being able to gain volume wholesale discounts for the linens... not willing to change them out every 4 weeks... yes. that would cost a lot.

And using a linen service is not cheap either -- they not only clean the linens... they purchased them as well, so you are paying thru the nose for convenience.

Just saying... I think my numbers and calculations are a fairly sound approximation of the costs involved vs. the net profit margins, for this discussion. 

My point was that mostly likely they weren't replacing a table cloth every four weeks.  More likely every six months if not longer.  In the meantime, the white tablecloths, are being washed and folded.  While they have "folding" machines there are personnel involved.  Not just for the actual laundering, feeding them into the folding machines, and transporting them to storage before use.  Then the servers have to place the tablecloths on the table.  All of this is labor cost.  Now add on the cost of detergent  along  with the maintenance/replacement cost  of the laundry machines.

 

The point I was making about the napkins was if they were white, they would still last over six months.  We would never throw out the whole batch every month.  We would "retire" them when they got worn.  Once our "stock" got low, we would purchase replacements from a linen supply company.  Why would a cruise company behave differently?

 

You do realize, that there are cost targets.  I.E. food cost should be at a certain percentage, labor costs should be at a certain percentage, etc.  of sales.  A few pennies here and there can add up to real dollars.  By dropping the table cloths save these pennies per table cloth  and thusly dollars over the the thousands of tablecloths in use without the customers complaining then that will be a factor in the decision making progress.

[VentureMan_2000]

1 hour ago, gatour said:

My point was that mostly likely they weren't replacing a table cloth every four weeks.  More likely every six months if not longer. 

Given your assumption... then the cost of white tablecloths just went down from my assumed calculation $15k+  to $2.5K+.  Thanks for improving my assumption in my scenario.

My scenario was for a ship carrying 3,000 passengers (whether or not it does)… or over $231 million annually net income for this one ship.  If we use your assumptions of $2.5K for new tablecloths -- stretching them out over 6 months... and lets say we quaddrouple that to include washing, folding, and changing table clothes for an annual cost of $10K, this would impact the bottom line by ‭4.32816118072237e-5‬ -- this is infinitesimal.  As I said, the constant daily adjustments to cruise fares inversely impacts the profit margin more than the cost of tablecloths.  Read my original assumption.    

[Organized Chaos]

4 hours ago, cruisinmems said:

Too bad you have a hard time swallowing that pill and you don't have to be a jerk about it.

 

This deserves to be quoted.

[sparks1093]

13 hours ago, Steve551 said:

Let's see, I'm gonna hit the horse one more time....

"What do you call the new Hub app?" I call it the Hub  App.

"What about the ability to have pizza delivered anywhere on the ship?"  I call it a way for Carnival to make money...it ain't free.

"New ports being built?"  Investment in future business...where do you think the money comes from?  That's right, cutbacks LOL

"New ships?"  if they weren't making money with them they wouldn't build them would they?

"New menus?" The old ones were wearing out. They only change once every 10-years or so.

"Table clothes are not hygienic anyway. Lots of people have to handle those before they land on the table." You mean they aren't as hygienic as the napkins (that you wipe your mouth with), or the dishes, or or the silverware, or those jars of butter, or the buffet line, or all of the surfaces of the ship?

 

"It's called change."  Of course it's change. All cutbacks are changes...

 

Just finished a cruise with Princess (Carnival's sister cruise line). Tablecloths every night; no one asked me if I wanted morning or evening cabin service, I got both...including little candies on my pillow; they even gave me a plastic pen; butter wasn't in a jar to be shared with everyone, it was cut into little pats; they still had the individual cereals; the list goes on.

 

Now you're going to say, "Just cruise with Princess if it's so good"...you were going to say that weren't you? I knew it!

Actually what I'm going to say is none of those things are so important to me that I'm willing to pay Princess's higher fare.

[ParrotRob]

14 hours ago, Steve551 said:

Let's see, I'm gonna hit the horse one more time....

"What do you call the new Hub app?" I call it the Hub  App.

"What about the ability to have pizza delivered anywhere on the ship?"  I call it a way for Carnival to make money...it ain't free.

"New ports being built?"  Investment in future business...where do you think the money comes from?  That's right, cutbacks LOL

"New ships?"  if they weren't making money with them they wouldn't build them would they?

"New menus?" The old ones were wearing out. They only change once every 10-years or so.

"Table clothes are not hygienic anyway. Lots of people have to handle those before they land on the table." You mean they aren't as hygienic as the napkins (that you wipe your mouth with), or the dishes, or or the silverware, or those jars of butter, or the buffet line, or all of the surfaces of the ship?

 

"It's called change."  Of course it's change. All cutbacks are changes...

 

Just finished a cruise with Princess (Carnival's sister cruise line). Tablecloths every night; no one asked me if I wanted morning or evening cabin service, I got both...including little candies on my pillow; they even gave me a plastic pen; butter wasn't in a jar to be shared with everyone, it was cut into little pats; they still had the individual cereals; the list goes on.

 

Now you're going to say, "Just cruise with Princess if it's so good"...you were going to say that weren't you? I knew it!

 

Candies on the pillow, boxed cereal, butter pats AND a plastic pen?!  A PLASTIC PEN?!  Sign me up for Princess right away.  That plastic pen alone is worth the cost.

[hotsauce126]

16 hours ago, coevan said:

 

 

Seriously? a 5 year old is cognitive of table clothes, tough pill to swallow, I'm sure the kids were aghast

 

🤣 like at least try to make up a believable story

[coevan]

Thank you, not being a jerk, trying to comprehend a child who walks in the MDR and their first observation is "no tableclothes"

[gatour]

20 hours ago, VentureMan_2000 said:

Given your assumption... then the cost of white tablecloths just went down from my assumed calculation $15k+  to $2.5K+.  Thanks for improving my assumption in my scenario.

My scenario was for a ship carrying 3,000 passengers (whether or not it does)… or over $231 million annually net income for this one ship.  If we use your assumptions of $2.5K for new tablecloths -- stretching them out over 6 months... and lets say we quaddrouple that to include washing, folding, and changing table clothes for an annual cost of $10K, this would impact the bottom line by ‭4.32816118072237e-5‬ -- this is infinitesimal.  As I said, the constant daily adjustments to cruise fares inversely impacts the profit margin more than the cost of tablecloths.  Read my original assumption.    

Bingo, you got one of the points I was trying to make, in one of my first posts.

 

However, it still doesn't negate the fact that their is a potential for cost savings no matter how small and will be taken into account by the bean counters.

 

To give you an example five years ago, a major shareholder of Olive Garden, suggested that the number breadsticks dropped off in the initial basket be reduced by one.

 

Much like why some port stops are shorter than years ago.  Allows them to cruise at a slower speed between ports thus saving fuel costs.

 

 

[PhillyFan33579]

On 9/4/2019 at 8:23 PM, cruisinmems said:

Yes these girls are in tune to traditions and such, even the 5 year old whether you believe it or not.  Sorry you have such a hard time believing what someone says about their granddaughters and telling what they said.  Was just stating my girls' thoughts when they first seen it and how disappointed they were.  The dining experience is fun for them and sort of magical to little girls to get all dressed up and such.  Too bad you have a hard time swallowing that pill and you don't have to be a jerk about it.

 

If your granddaughters are in to these “things”, and I have no reason to doubt you, I am surprised you didn’t take them on a cruise line that would meet their expectations, instead of taking them on Carnival and disappointing them. 

[VentureMan_2000]

gatour:  Bingo, you got one of the points I was trying to make, in one of my first posts.

 

 

Yup, I agree.  I focused on the numbers as everyone tried to make it sound like the use of tablecloths was exorbitant, and there was a lot to be saved by eliminating them.

I still think they did this due to the new cruise edicate of 'casual dining' that went into discussion around 2006, and sometime after was implemented.  Dress and edicate has changed greatly in the last 15 - 20 years.  I use to wear a 3-piece suit for years when I started working in the 80's... then in the 90's, they started casual Fridays where you could dress down and where dockers and a polo.  then in the early 2000's, casual Fridays meant jeans and a polo.  By 2012, I was wearing shorts, a t-shirt, and sandals to work.

Anyway, I think the tablecloths disappeared from everyday use just the way my 3-piece suit did... and pretty much during the exact timeline. 

Edited September 6, 2019 by VentureMan_2000

[CorvetteLady]

OP here, I checked back after my post, got an answer and hadn't been back on CC until today.  Imagine my surprise to see it was now 4 pages!  For those who have said it's beating a dead horse, well I did a search, phrased it several different ways and nothing came up, I asked more out of curiosity because I was surprised when I heard tablecloths were no longer a thing.  

 

Would I stop going on Carnival because they no longer use tablecloths everyday? No. I do enjoy the MDR experience and I think the tablecloths were a nice touch, they made it different than the restaurants at home that we eat in all the time.  Some have argued that it's all so casual now, well so are NCL, RCCL and most cruise lines but they still use tablecloths.  Also Carnival is not cheaper then NCL or RCCL, the only other lines that I have sailed.  Like most cruisers how we pick our cruises depends on a lot of things.  We picked the 14 day cruise on the Breeze because of the ports, 7 different ones for us.  Booked before I even looked at CC, even with all the changes on Carnival we would still have booked it.  It will be interesting to see all the changes in the last 7 years, hope more good than bad.

[coevan]

1 hour ago, gatour said:

a major shareholder of Olive Garden,

 

 

You mean Darden. In the late 80's I managed OG when our checks said General Mills. 

[ecarbine]

13 hours ago, ParrotRob said:

 

Candies on the pillow, boxed cereal, butter pats AND a plastic pen?!  A PLASTIC PEN?!  Sign me up for Princess right away.  That plastic pen alone is worth the cost.

I just keep the pen that I sign each receipt for my drinks with. That's 15 pens a day if I buy Cheers!

[vicky3vicky]

I am sooooo glad that when I take my grandchildren on a cruise, and we walk into the dining room [with no tablecloths] they say something like "OHHH grandma! It is so beautiful! Thank you, thank you, thank you, for taking us on this cruise!" [just like they do on multiple occassions throughout the cruise. 

 

Maybe your grandkids should understand that Carnival is NOT a luxury cruise line, it is a fun ship! Explain that they should think of dining on a "naked" table as an adventure, and that once you get home that they will once again dine with a proper dining cloth.

 

And yes, I have been cruising long enough that I recall when every  place setting was set with nearly a dozen pieces of "silverware." [what a waste!]

[vicky3vicky]

44 minutes ago, ecarbine said:

I just keep the pen that I sign each receipt for my drinks with. That's 15 pens a day if I buy Cheers!

I need to put that on my list on how to save money on a cruise! You rock! lol