All new policy tipping / auto-gratuity?

[Host Hattie]

How do the fares compare ? If you prefer the German Terms and Conditions, why not just book with a German TA ?

[Aspidestra99]

I object to the change in the process and the underlying principle not the impact on fares/paying of a service charge, so booking on another site makes no difference. 

[Windsurfboy]

Shouldn't all passengers be treated the same, as simple as that.

[Underwatr]

48 minutes ago, Aspidestra99 said:

I object to the change in the process and the underlying principle not the impact on fares/paying of a service charge, so booking on another site makes no difference. 

Purely a matter of principle? Would it affect how you feel if your fare became opt-in?

[exlondoner]

1 minute ago, Underwatr said:

Purely a matter of principle? Would it affect how you feel if your fare became opt-in?

 

The thing is there are so many things that could be thought unfair. Early bookers getting lower fares, late bookers getting lower fares, some countries getting special offers that others don't, past passengers getting a slight discount, drinks inclusive offers being available sometimes in some countries and not others, passengers with over fifteen hundred nights getting priority tendering, veterans getting obc. This doesn't seem any different.

[North West Newbie]

Many of those who support the auto gratuities system do so in the belief that crew members behind the scenes, who also contribute to a guest’s onboard enjoyment, will receive a share of that pool. Hence, anyone in the markets where the auto gratuity has become opt-in will simply be able to opt-in.

 

Purported statistics on the opt-in versus opt-out rates are irrelevant when taken in context of one’s own desire whether or not to remunerate crew members.

 

Do what suits you, but, anyone who removes the auto gratuity for the sole purpose of protesting at Cunard needs to revisit their conscience.

[Windsurfboy]

I do not understand the talk of fares, If auto gratuities are incorporated into fares the headline price may rise but the net spend will be the same. Except for those who opt out and don't tip.

 

As for whether to protest by removing auto gratuities ,  we all make our own decisions. 

[Underwatr]

42 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

I do not understand the talk of fares

The complaints of the complainers (that the Germans and others are getting an unfair break) make sense only if you assume that fares don't rise to make the net spend the same.

I know they will have a means of opting into paying a general gratuity but I doubt there will be a way to be credited the portion of the cruise fare that goes into what used to be considered the tipping pool.

I share your skepticism that fares will not be raised.

Edited September 27, 2019 by Underwatr

[Windsurfboy]

You misunderstand me, I expect fares to rise to compensate for Cunard putting more into the gratuities pool. But this will be offset by not paying auto gratuities. 

 

I think moving to gratuities included in fare us the way to go.

[Germancruiser]

For me the old system - handing over envelopes at the end of a cruise/ voyage  was by far the better option. If I am satisfied or more so- i can show it via the amount I tip. I very rarely experienced bad service on board any ship or any cruise line for that matter. So I usually tip extra - above the automaticly charged amount. Not all and not everytime- but if the service was " extra" I give a little " extra"! The cabin attendant- in my opinion the most important service memeber I tip always up front a little extra!

Makes - usually - for a " smooth sailing"!

 

 

[siforest65]

15 hours ago, Host Hattie said:

How do the fares compare ? If you prefer the German Terms and Conditions, why not just book with a German TA ?

Is that possible? I know when we were on the QV in the Voyagers office , Chris told us they had different promotions, offers and terms and conditions for each market and were strict about residency requirements etc when it came to accessing them. Not sure how that applies to booking through a TA though.

[North West Newbie]

13 hours ago, Windsurfboy said:

I do not understand the talk of fares, If auto gratuities are incorporated into fares the headline price may rise but the net spend will be the same. Except for those who opt out and don't tip.

 

As for whether to protest by removing auto gratuities ,  we all make our own decisions. 

 

10 hours ago, Windsurfboy said:

You misunderstand me, I expect fares to rise to compensate for Cunard putting more into the gratuities pool. But this will be offset by not paying auto gratuities. 

 

I think moving to gratuities included in fare us the way to go.

 

It could be the case that Cunard are moving to the all inclusive model and are doing it gradually market by market. In any case and as you expect, Cunard may very well be contributing more into the gratuities pool to offset the difference.

 

The approach of removing the auto gratuity by way of protest will only serve to hurt the crew who it is intended to benefit. In one of your posts on another thread you said in response to a poster who supported leaving the auto tip on:-

 

"I completely agree.

 

I don't understand anyone who gets rid of the auto tip, you just deprive the behind the scenes people. Yes you may get a personal satisfaction of tipping a few people you meet face to face, but at the expense of the people who make your cruise possible . ”

 

 

 

 

[majortom10]

10 hours ago, Germancruiser said:

For me the old system - handing over envelopes at the end of a cruise/ voyage  was by far the better option. If I am satisfied or more so- i can show it via the amount I tip. I very rarely experienced bad service on board any ship or any cruise line for that matter. So I usually tip extra - above the automaticly charged amount. Not all and not everytime- but if the service was " extra" I give a little " extra"! The cabin attendant- in my opinion the most important service memeber I tip always up front a little extra!

Makes - usually - for a " smooth sailing"!

 

 

Sorry but how can you "tip" which is a reward for good service when you havent received that service. By tipping at the start of the cruise in my opinion that is not a "tip" but a bribe.

[Windsurfboy]

1 hour ago, North West Newbie said:

 

 

It could be the case that Cunard are moving to the all inclusive model and are doing it gradually market by market. In any case and as you expect, Cunard may very well be contributing more into the gratuities pool to offset the difference.

 

 

 

The approach of removing the auto gratuity by way of protest will only serve to hurt the crew who it is intended to benefit. In one of your posts on another thread you said in response to a poster who supported leaving the auto tip on:-

 

 

 

"I completely agree.

 

 

 

I don't understand anyone who gets rid of the auto tip, you just deprive the behind the scenes people. Yes you may get a personal satisfaction of tipping a few people you meet face to face, but at the expense of the people who make your cruise possible . ”

 

 

 

 

 

Yes I did say that,  in an earlier thread when the debate was when there was a level playing field, auto gratuities was the norm, no geography was exempt. 

 

I also said earlier in that same thread that, it would be much better to pay the staff more and get rid of auto gratuities. I still think that's what should happen. 

 

As I said in my first post on this thread ,  this new policy in some countries presents me with a dilemma. If it was a level playing field I would continue paying auto gratuities. Even though I think auto gratuities are a marketing trick designed to lower the headline price of the cruise, lower prices due to lower wages, then pass the cost on later to passengers via auto gratuities. 

 

However things have changed. Cunard by applying different tipping rules to different countries have tilted the playing field. It's not something that should be done market by market. P&O a Carnival company bit the bullet and got rid of tips for all markets. I believe Curnard thought nobody would notice. Or perhaps Germany just did it off there own bat who knows

 

Anyway, I think that this is unfair.

 

The German model of returns tipping to what it should be, a thank you for exceptional service, not a subsidy to a cruise line .This should applied everywhere. 

 

In the balance between feeling the need to protest vs my earlier thoughts that you quote. The need to protest wins out. I have also followed Majortom and emailed Cunard but not holding my breath.

 

This has set me thinking, I will opt out , giving German T&Cs as the reason. Then later on I will ask for a German opt in form and opt back in, if they will give me a form. Hopefully they will get the massage

 

Once gratuities revert to what they should be, a spontaneous thank you, I hope that Cunard does retain some ability for one to tip a pool to be shared by everyone.

 

By the way I  also do not understand how Cunard are able to insist on residency conditions for where you book in Europe,  thus is strictly against the rules of the single market. 

 

 

 

 

[North West Newbie]

38 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

 

Yes I did say that,  in an earlier thread when the debate was when there was a level playing field, auto gratuities was the norm, no geography was exempt. 

 

I also said earlier in that same thread that, it would be much better to pay the staff more and get rid of auto gratuities. I still think that's what should happen. 

 

As I said in my first post on this thread ,  this new policy in some countries presents me with a dilemma. If it was a level playing field I would continue paying auto gratuities. Even though I think auto gratuities are a marketing trick designed to lower the headline price of the cruise, lower prices due to lower wages, then pass the cost on later to passengers via auto gratuities. 

 

However things have changed. Cunard by applying different tipping rules to different countries have tilted the playing field. It's not something that should be done market by market. P&O a Carnival company bit the bullet and got rid of tips for all markets. I believe Curnard thought nobody would notice. Or perhaps Germany just did it off there own bat who knows

 

Anyway, I think that this is unfair.

 

The German model of returns tipping to what it should be, a thank you for exceptional service, not a subsidy to a cruise line .This should applied everywhere. 

 

In the balance between feeling the need to protest vs my earlier thoughts that you quote. The need to protest wins out. I have also followed Majortom and emailed Cunard but not holding my breath.

 

This has set me thinking, I will opt out , giving German T&Cs as the reason. Then later on I will ask for a German opt in form and opt back in, if they will give me a form. Hopefully they will get the massage

 

Once gratuities revert to what they should be, a spontaneous thank you, I hope that Cunard does retain some ability for one to tip a pool to be shared by everyone.

 

By the way I  also do not understand how Cunard are able to insist on residency conditions for where you book in Europe,  thus is strictly against the rules of the single market. 

 

 

 

 

 

I fail to understand why some people concern themselves with the internal mechanics of how Cunard choose to arrange their business model from one market to another. If anyone is not content with what is on offer in their home market then they are at liberty to choose not to travel with Cunard. It is also open to anyone to voice their concerns by writing to Cunard which you have indicated you have now done. It is plainly unreasonable to vent anger in a manner which will penalise crew members for a situation which is not of their making.

 

There is only one form used to vary the auto gratuity whether that is to increase, decrease or opt out and the same form is likely to be used if a passenger wishes to opt in. Your suggestion that there is a "German opt in form" is preposterous as is your intention to opt out and then opt back in.

[davyjones]

As an example, looking at V126 on the German and UK sites for a Britannia Club cabin gives 3561EUR (£3167) v £2349.  The German fare does not include flights.  So I am quite happy for the Germans to have 'free' gratutities.

 

DJ

 

[majortom10]

1 hour ago, North West Newbie said:

 

I fail to understand why some people concern themselves with the internal mechanics of how Cunard choose to arrange their business model from one market to another. If anyone is not content with what is on offer in their home market then they are at liberty to choose not to travel with Cunard. It is also open to anyone to voice their concerns by writing to Cunard which you have indicated you have now done. It is plainly unreasonable to vent anger in a manner which will penalise crew members for a situation which is not of their making.

 

There is only one form used to vary the auto gratuity whether that is to increase, decrease or opt out and the same form is likely to be used if a passenger wishes to opt in. Your suggestion that there is a "German opt in form" is preposterous as is your intention to opt out and then opt back in.

If anyone is penalising the crew it is the T&Cs Cunard place on different markets for cruisers on the same cruise. If they want to remove auto gratuities and include it in the fare or leave it to individual customers to decide how much they leave in gratuities then I have no problem with that. What is not unfair is treating people on the same cruise differently depending on what country they are from it should be the same for all.

[majortom10]

32 minutes ago, davyjones said:

As an example, looking at V126 on the German and UK sites for a Britannia Club cabin gives 3561EUR (£3167) v £2349.  The German fare does not include flights.  So I am quite happy for the Germans to have 'free' gratutities.

 

DJ

 

The actual Cunard Fare for V126 is £2649 for a Britannia Club cabin the price you quote £2349 is for an Early Saver fare.

[Aspidestra99]

20 hours ago, Underwatr said:

Purely a matter of principle? Would it affect how you feel if your fare became opt-in?

Perhaps my reply to northwest newbie posted prior to your response answers your question. I would much rather have gratuities included in the fare, failing that I have always paid the autogratuity and would opt in, to ensure the charge is distributed fairly. So, to answer your post and to make it perfectly clear - yes it is purely a matter of principle.

Edited September 28, 2019 by Aspidestra99

[North West Newbie]

19 minutes ago, majortom10 said:

If anyone is penalising the crew it is the T&Cs Cunard place on different markets for cruisers on the same cruise. If they want to remove auto gratuities and include it in the fare or leave it to individual customers to decide how much they leave in gratuities then I have no problem with that. What is not unfair is treating people on the same cruise differently depending on what country they are from it should be the same for all.

 

In the context of this thread, I agree, it is not unfair to treat people on the same cruise differently depending on what country they are from. The crew will receive the same if the daily gratuity value is an auto gratuity or if it is included in the fare. Removing the auto gratuity is not the correct way to communicate one’s objection.

[North West Newbie]

22 minutes ago, majortom10 said:

The actual Cunard Fare for V126 is £2649 for a Britannia Club cabin the price you quote £2349 is for an Early Saver fare.

 

Yes, and that works out at the equivalent of £37.00 GBP per day extra for a German customer. Almost 4 times the value of the auto gratuity. If anyone is worse off it is the German customer.

 

Are any of the dissenters going to complain to Cunard and insist that all UK customers on V126 must pay the difference?

[majortom10]

22 minutes ago, North West Newbie said:

 

In the context of this thread, I agree, it is not unfair to treat people on the same cruise differently depending on what country they are from. The crew will receive the same if the daily gratuity value is an auto gratuity or if it is included in the fare. Removing the auto gratuity is not the correct way to communicate one’s objection.

Sorry but it is the only way because any other way Cunard will just turn a deaf ear and let you carry on paying autogratuities.

[North West Newbie]

1 minute ago, majortom10 said:

Sorry but it is the only way because any other way Cunard will just turn a deaf ear and let you carry on paying autogratuities.

 

So why have you wasted your time writing to them?

[majortom10]

1 minute ago, North West Newbie said:

 

So why have you wasted your time writing to them?

To get an answer of why they are treating countries differently so I have an answer before my next cruise.

[North West Newbie]

2 minutes ago, majortom10 said:

To get an answer of why they are treating countries differently so I have an answer before my next cruise.

 

Well, as Windsurfboy said at #64, don't hold your breath.