What type of credit card do you use when booking cruises?

[That sinking feeling]

49 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

First, you learn to live within your means. Then you can afford to invest.

 

Goes without saying. Still very easy to tell others to live within their means though when you are clearly well off. There will be millions of people that live within their means but couldnt ever afford stocks and shares. I would also like to guess that a large number of cruisers wouldnt have ever cruised had they just lived within their means.

[RocketMan275]

2 minutes ago, That sinking feeling said:

Goes without saying. Still very easy to tell others to live within their means though when you are clearly well off. There will be millions of people that live within their means but couldnt ever afford stocks and shares. I would also like to guess that a large number of cruisers wouldnt have ever cruised had they just lived within their means.

Perhaps they should have invested in something besides cruising?  I put aside driving the newest, dressing in the latest, etc., until I could do so.  But only after I made my investment.  Budgeting was the tool that made all that possible.  It's called 'delayed gratification'.   I know others who haven't made a ton of money but they live well and they invest regularly.

[That sinking feeling]

fair enough

[ducklite]

On 2/9/2020 at 9:33 AM, RocketMan275 said:

Versus what benchmark?  You should be skeptical of performance measures chosen by a team of professional 'experts' who often are selective in choosing benchmarks, etc?  Besides, even your team's statement of performance will include this:  "Past performance is no guarantee of future performance". 

 

The point is the performance of any team is mostly the result of random chance.  Look at performance of mutual funds.  It is indeed rare for the best performing mutual fund to repeat.  Why should your team be better than any other team?

 

This is the bottom line: there is no secret, magic way, to beat the market.  Any such claim is a somewhat disguised claim of the ability to predict the future.  Do you think that is possible?

 

It has been proven that index funds are the superior investment vehicle.  There is no reason to pay an 'expert', just buy the market.

You do you, boo.

[ducklite]

7 hours ago, That sinking feeling said:

Must be very easy to live within your means when you can also afford investments with stocks etc.

Those unable to live within their means shouldn't be thinking about taking a cruise to begin with.

[ducklite]

2 hours ago, That sinking feeling said:

Goes without saying. Still very easy to tell others to live within their means though when you are clearly well off. There will be millions of people that live within their means but couldnt ever afford stocks and shares. I would also like to guess that a large number of cruisers wouldnt have ever cruised had they just lived within their means.

We haven't always been in the position we're in now.  We have always funded our 401K and saved a bit of emergency cash every paycheck.  That means we didn't take a cruise for many years, and we still don't cruise every year, opting for less expensive land vacations instead.  No one is entitled to a cruise, and it's sad that anyone would think they were, regardless of their means.

[RocketMan275]

3 minutes ago, ducklite said:

Those unable to live within their means shouldn't be thinking about taking a cruise to begin with.

My former wife and I differed in that she believed borrowing money was the secret to success.  You want to take a vacation and you don't have the money in the bank, well just put it on the credit card.  No reason to save up for a vacation when you can borrow the money.  She's been replaced with one who likes money in the bank more than she likes new clothes.  

[pacruise804]

On 2/7/2020 at 8:13 PM, ducklite said:

I do agree that for people with poor impulse control and those not able to separate needs from wants, budgeting can help.  More than anything it can help people who aren't in the habit of saving to automatically do so.

 

As far as not hiring a professional, I look at it this way.  I'm the CEO of my life.  Just like a CEO, I hire the best people to work for me, because I can't be an expert at everything.  Hiring a wealth management company is like hiring a plumber.  They are the people with the years of training who will get it right without making rookie mistakes that end up costing more than hiring someone to do it right to begin with.

 

 

 

To follow your analogy of being CEO of your life and your life being a business, should only business that have poor impulse control use budgets?  As far as not separating needs from wants: most of us live our lives somewhere in between and have many conveniences (and sometimes luxuries) that are far above satisfying basic needs (even if it feels like it, a cruise is never a necessity 😉 ).  A budget doesn't automatically make someone a saver either, unless they include savings in the budget.

 

7 hours ago, That sinking feeling said:

Must be very easy to live within your means when you can also afford investments with stocks etc.

There are many types of investing that can start with as little as $50 per month.  Most people can either intuitively save or budget $50 per month (especially those who can afford to cruise).  If you look at the effect of compound interest, starting small but continually investing will far outweigh starting later when you can "afford" it and trying to catch up with larger amounts.

 

It might not be the best investment out there, but you can always start small and as it grows roll it into something else with better performance that has a larger minimum balance.

 

 

2 hours ago, That sinking feeling said:

Goes without saying. Still very easy to tell others to live within their means though when you are clearly well off. There will be millions of people that live within their means but couldnt ever afford stocks and shares. I would also like to guess that a large number of cruisers wouldnt have ever cruised had they just lived within their means.

Living within your means has little to do with how much you make.  There are people making 30K per year who live within their means and amass nice sized investments, while there are those who make 300K per year and have heavy debt loads or are leveraged in their investment properties.

Because we live within our means, vacations early in our marriage were local day trips that involved no lodging and less expensive camping trips to eventually cruising once every other year and now 2 cruises most years.

[RocketMan275]

2 minutes ago, ducklite said:

We haven't always been in the position we're in now.  We have always funded our 401K and saved a bit of emergency cash every paycheck.  That means we didn't take a cruise for many years, and we still don't cruise every year, opting for less expensive land vacations instead.  No one is entitled to a cruise, and it's sad that anyone would think they were, regardless of their means.

Neither was I.  My current wife and I went without fancy cars and other things.  Now, we have lots of cash, we can afford cruises, and we drive luxury cars.  We can afford to spend now, because we saved and invested back then.

[RocketMan275]

6 minutes ago, pacruise804 said:

 

To follow your analogy of being CEO of your life and your life being a business, should only business that have poor impulse control use budgets?  As far as not separating needs from wants: most of us live our lives somewhere in between and have many conveniences (and sometimes luxuries) that are far above satisfying basic needs (even if it feels like it, a cruise is never a necessity 😉 ).  A budget doesn't automatically make someone a saver either, unless they include savings in the budget.

 

There are many types of investing that can start with as little as $50 per month.  Most people can either intuitively save or budget $50 per month (especially those who can afford to cruise).  If you look at the effect of compound interest, starting small but continually investing will far outweigh starting later when you can "afford" it and trying to catch up with larger amounts.

 

It might not be the best investment out there, but you can always start small and as it grows roll it into something else with better performance that has a larger minimum balance.

 

 

Living within your means has little to do with how much you make.  There are people making 30K per year who live within their means and amass nice sized investments, while there are those who make 300K per year and have heavy debt loads or are leveraged in their investment properties.

Because we live within our means, vacations early in our marriage were local day trips that involved no lodging and less expensive camping trips to eventually cruising once every other year and now 2 cruises most years.

I started investing at the $50 per month level.  Amazing how it adds up.

 

There was an article on Market Watch, IIRC, about a couple making $300K annually looking for help in trying to make ends meet.   Some have difficulty comprehending that one can live a very good life without spending $7.50 a day for a Grande Latte.

 

One of Ramsey's usual comments to those who were in difficulty was:  Get rid of both of the expensive cars and buy a used inexpensive vehicle.  Just one, you can share.

Edited February 10, 2020 by RocketMan275

[ducklite]

6 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

My former wife and I differed in that she believed borrowing money was the secret to success.  You want to take a vacation and you don't have the money in the bank, well just put it on the credit card.  No reason to save up for a vacation when you can borrow the money.  She's been replaced with one who likes money in the bank more than she likes new clothes.  

Borrowing money for some purposes will make you money.  For example a doctor starting his own practice who needs a business loan to set up an office.  Borrowing for a mortgage on a house which if lived in long enough will appreciate, regardless of cyclic markets (provided the monthly payments are affordable to begin with.) 

 

What you describe is immature and a road to ruin.

[ducklite]

2 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

I started investing at the $50 per month level.  Amazing how it adds up.

 

There was an article on Market Watch, IIRC, about a couple making $300K annually looking for help in trying to make ends meet. 

 

One of Ramsey's usual comments to those who were in difficulty was:  Get rid of both of the expensive cars and buy a used inexpensive vehicle.  Just one, you can share.

Sharing doesn't always work--particularly in two income families who live in an area without reliable mass transit.  Driving modest cars and keeping them until the wheels fall off is good advice. 

Edited February 10, 2020 by ducklite

[RocketMan275]

1 minute ago, ducklite said:

Sharing doesn't always work--particularly in two income families who live in an area without reliable mass transit.

It may require planning and inconvenience but it can almost always be made to work.  

[ducklite]

2 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

It may require planning and inconvenience but it can almost always be made to work.  

I completely disagree.  My neighbor works 45 minutes to the SE of us.  Her husband works an hour to the NE.  The only sane way to get between the two is by using toll roads.  The toll road would take about an hour between the two jobs and cost about $5 each way.  They work roughly the same hours. So explain how it would make sense for them to share one car.  They'd be putting an additional 80 miles a day on a car, and paying $16 in gas and tolls.  That doesn't take into account the time for one of them to spend an extra two hours in the car and the other to waste two hours waiting before they started work and then after they finished.  Public transit isn't an option for either of them as it doesn't exist in our town or get to within four miles of her job and three of his.

 

 

[That sinking feeling]

25 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

My former wife and I differed in that she believed borrowing money was the secret to success.  You want to take a vacation and you don't have the money in the bank, well just put it on the credit card.  No reason to save up for a vacation when you can borrow the money.  She's been replaced with one who likes money in the bank more than she likes new clothes.  

Which one was more fun?

[RocketMan275]

1 hour ago, ducklite said:

I completely disagree.  My neighbor works 45 minutes to the SE of us.  Her husband works an hour to the NE.  The only sane way to get between the two is by using toll roads.  The toll road would take about an hour between the two jobs and cost about $5 each way.  They work roughly the same hours. So explain how it would make sense for them to share one car.  They'd be putting an additional 80 miles a day on a car, and paying $16 in gas and tolls.  That doesn't take into account the time for one of them to spend an extra two hours in the car and the other to waste two hours waiting before they started work and then after they finished.  Public transit isn't an option for either of them as it doesn't exist in our town or get to within four miles of her job and three of his.

 

 

.You can always come up with unique situations.  It's far more likely that most situations would work.  BTW, how much do two cars cost to own and maintain over one car.  Perhaps one should change jobs.  

[ducklite]

1 minute ago, RocketMan275 said:

.You can always come up with unique situations.  It's far more likely that most situations would work.  BTW, how much do two cars cost to own and maintain over one car.  Perhaps one should change jobs.  

Considering they both earn six figures, I think your suggestion is quite foolish over the cost of owning two cars that are in the $25K range--hardly an extravagance.  

 

I know many couples who work in opposite directions of each other and are both high income earners where dropping an income to avoid having two cars would be one of the stupidest financial mistakes they could make.

[clo]

On 2/4/2020 at 5:21 AM, 2wheelin said:

And yet he’s the millionaire. How many of you are?

Who isnt?

[ldubs]

3 minutes ago, clo said:

Who isnt?

 

Hmm, just a little pomp and splendor there  Clo.  😎

[RocketMan275]

14 minutes ago, ducklite said:

Considering they both earn six figures, I think your suggestion is quite foolish over the cost of owning two cars that are in the $25K range--hardly an extravagance.  

 

I know many couples who work in opposite directions of each other and are both high income earners where dropping an income to avoid having two cars would be one of the stupidest financial mistakes they could make.

That isn't the situation Ramsey deals with.  What is more common is a couple whose total income is around $75K.  Who have a house with a second mortgage incurred to pay off their credit cards.  But, they're still spending on the credit cards and now owe another $40-$50K on them.  They also have two leased vehicles with payments of over $500 per month each.  That's why Ramsey says: "get rid of the cards".

Ramsey's audience isn't the family making $300K.

I never said they should drop one income.  I did say they might consider finding another job without the long travel.

[ducklite]

14 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

Hmm, just a little pomp and splendor there  Clo.  😎

Over 3% of the US population has a net worth of $1M.  That actually seems a little low to me if things like equity in homes and retirement savings are factored in, but maybe not.

[ldubs]

1 minute ago, ducklite said:

Over 3% of the US population has a net worth of $1M.  That actually seems a little low to me if things like equity in homes and retirement savings are factored in, but maybe not.

 

I am not following your point in posting this stat?  

[ducklite]

13 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

That isn't the situation Ramsey deals with.  What is more common is a couple whose total income is around $75K.  Who have a house with a second mortgage incurred to pay off their credit cards.  But, they're still spending on the credit cards and now owe another $40-$50K on them.  They also have two leased vehicles with payments of over $500 per month each.  That's why Ramsey says: "get rid of the cards".

Ramsey's audience isn't the family making $300K.

I never said they should drop one income.  I did say they might consider finding another job without the long travel.

Depending on what their careers are, that's not always possible.  

 

And I know of a few families making $300K who could use some help from Ramsey.  Take your scenario and make it $300K in income, a home with a second mortgage, and add a "1" in front of the credit card balances.  But even then, dropping one income isn't going to help.  Paying off the credit cards instead of taking more vacation or buying more LV handbags would.  I once met with a guy for a mortgage refi who had a $600K home, and had declared BK two years earlier on over $200K in credit cards.  Two leased cars with $800 monthly payments each, and they had already opened and run up $30K in credit card debt in under six months.  What a disaster.  I told him to save the application fee, because he wasn't getting a rate better than the 8.5% fixed he was currently in.

[ducklite]

1 minute ago, ldubs said:

 

I am not following your point in posting this stat?  

Sorry, meant to respond to Clo.

[ldubs]

Just now, ducklite said:

Sorry, meant to respond to Clo.

 

No problem.