What type of credit card do you use when booking cruises?

[RocketMan275]

1 minute ago, ducklite said:

Depending on what their careers are, that's not always possible.  

 

And I know of a few families making $300K who could use some help from Ramsey.  Take your scenario and make it $300K in income, a home with a second mortgage, and add a "1" in front of the credit card balances.  But even then, dropping one income isn't going to help.  Paying off the credit cards instead of taking more vacation or buying more LV handbags would.  I once met with a guy for a mortgage refi who had a $600K home, and had declared BK two years earlier on over $200K in credit cards.  Two leased cars with $800 monthly payments each, and they had already opened and run up $30K in credit card debt in under six months.  What a disaster.  I told him to save the application fee, because he wasn't getting a rate better than the 8.5% fixed he was currently in.

That's funny.  Ramsey started his own business when he was in junior high.   He went into real estate and was worth over a million when he was 26.  His lender was purchased by another who called Ramsey's debts $1.2M due in three months.  He lost everything and declared bankruptcy.  That explains his aversion to debt.  BTW, his current net worth is $55M.  

https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/what-is-dave-ramseys-net-worth-heres-how-he-got-out-of-debt-and-made-millions.html/

As I said, I'm not anti-debt or into burning credit cards but I do understand that may be the best course for some.

[ducklite]

1 hour ago, RocketMan275 said:

That's funny.  Ramsey started his own business when he was in junior high.   He went into real estate and was worth over a million when he was 26.  His lender was purchased by another who called Ramsey's debts $1.2M due in three months.  He lost everything and declared bankruptcy.  That explains his aversion to debt.  BTW, his current net worth is $55M.  

https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/what-is-dave-ramseys-net-worth-heres-how-he-got-out-of-debt-and-made-millions.html/

As I said, I'm not anti-debt or into burning credit cards but I do understand that may be the best course for some.

Typically when a note gets called in real estate it was either poorly negotiated to begin with or the lender deems the borrower a significant credit risk they want o get off their books asp.

[RocketMan275]

3 minutes ago, ducklite said:

Typically when a note gets called in real estate it was either poorly negotiated to begin with or the lender deems the borrower a significant credit risk they want o get off their books asp.

Why is that relevant?  He went bankrupt.  He tells the tale of putting $5 of gasoline into his Mercedes and hoping his credit card wouldn't be denied.  

[ducklite]

6 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

Why is that relevant?  He went bankrupt.  He tells the tale of putting $5 of gasoline into his Mercedes and hoping his credit card wouldn't be denied.  

Because either he was a poor businessman or he was a massive credit risk who shouldn't have been given that much capital to speculate with. 

Given he was driving a luxury car and didn't have $5 in his pocket, I'd say probably a combination of both.

[Toofarfromthesea]

5 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

Neither was I.  My current wife and I went without fancy cars and other things.  Now, we have lots of cash, we can afford cruises, and we drive luxury cars.  We can afford to spend now, because we saved and invested back then.

 

Delayed gratification.  What a novel idea. 🙂🙃🙂

[Toofarfromthesea]

5 hours ago, ducklite said:

Borrowing money for some purposes will make you money.  For example a doctor starting his own practice who needs a business loan to set up an office.  Borrowing for a mortgage on a house which if lived in long enough will appreciate, regardless of cyclic markets (provided the monthly payments are affordable to begin with.) 

 

What you describe is immature and a road to ruin.

 

Yes, because borrowing to go on vacation and borrowing to set up a professional practice that lets you mint money are exactly the same.

[Toofarfromthesea]

3 hours ago, ducklite said:

Considering they both earn six figures, I think your suggestion is quite foolish over the cost of owning two cars that are in the $25K range--hardly an extravagance.  

 

I know many couples who work in opposite directions of each other and are both high income earners where dropping an income to avoid having two cars would be one of the stupidest financial mistakes they could make.

 

If they are both making 6 figures and are still having financial difficulties they have far deeper problems than just cars.

[Toofarfromthesea]

3 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

I am not following your point in posting this stat?  

 

That the fact that someone is a millionaire is not that remarkable and certainly not evidence that the millionaire in question doesn't mix a lot of snake oil into their product.

[Toofarfromthesea]

3 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

That's funny.  Ramsey started his own business when he was in junior high.   He went into real estate and was worth over a million when he was 26.  His lender was purchased by another who called Ramsey's debts $1.2M due in three months.  He lost everything and declared bankruptcy.  That explains his aversion to debt.  BTW, his current net worth is $55M.  

https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/what-is-dave-ramseys-net-worth-heres-how-he-got-out-of-debt-and-made-millions.html/

As I said, I'm not anti-debt or into burning credit cards but I do understand that may be the best course for some.

 

Sounds like he was just dumb.  I've never had a real estate loan, for personal residence or investment real estate, that was even callable, let alone called.  Sometimes people learn the wrong lessons from their failures.  

Edited February 10, 2020 by Toofarfromthesea

[ldubs]

13 minutes ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

That the fact that someone is a millionaire is not that remarkable and certainly not evidence that the millionaire in question doesn't mix a lot of snake oil into their product.

 

I think a vast portion of the population might disagree with this statement.  

[ducklite]

26 minutes ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

Yes, because borrowing to go on vacation and borrowing to set up a professional practice that lets you mint money are exactly the same.

I hope you were dripping with sarcasm.

[ducklite]

25 minutes ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

If they are both making 6 figures and are still having financial difficulties they have far deeper problems than just cars.

 

Uh, ya think?  Unfortunately I know numerous couples in this situation.

[RocketMan275]

35 minutes ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

Sounds like he was just dumb.  I've never had a real estate loan, for personal residence or investment real estate, that was even callable, let alone called.  Sometimes people learn the wrong lessons from their failures.  

He was heavily into debt flipping properties, not personal residences or investment real estate.

OBTW, this dummy is now worth over $55M.

Edited February 10, 2020 by RocketMan275

[RocketMan275]

17 minutes ago, ducklite said:

 

Uh, ya think?  Unfortunately I know numerous couples in this situation.

Do them a favor and tell them about Ramsey.

[Toofarfromthesea]

13 minutes ago, ducklite said:

 

Uh, ya think?  Unfortunately I know numerous couples in this situation.

 

Sadly, I agree.  My first career was as a pension actuary for 20+ years, and my firm set up pension plans for small businesses, many of which were professional practices.  And a lot of my clients made great incomes, but despite that a fair number had serious financial problems. 

 

Being able to make money and knowing how to handle money are very different.  Ramsay has made a lot of money telling people how to handle money but does he know how to do it himself, as opposed to teaching it?  I questioned that ability when someone told the story of him racking up an unexpectedly large balance on a cruise by blithely running everything on his cruise card - a pretty rookie mistake for a personal finance guru.

 

Which is when the whole 'he's a millionaire, how many of you are' defense arose.

[Toofarfromthesea]

8 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

He was heavily into debt flipping properties, not personal residences or investment real estate.

OBTW, this dummy is now worth over $55M.

 

I bet he didn't get there via callable loans for the purpose of flipping houses.  Which is what I said was dumb.

[RocketMan275]

1 minute ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

I bet he didn't get there via callable loans for the purpose of flipping houses.  Which is what I said was dumb.

No, he worked himself out of debt.  Then he started his new business helping people use the process he used to also get out of debt.  

[ducklite]

28 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

No, he worked himself out of debt.  Then he started his new business helping people use the process he used to also get out of debt.  

He declared bankruptcy.  I highly doubt he paid off every dine he owed.

[clo]

11 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

It may require planning and inconvenience but it can almost always be made to work.  

We're retired but still want/need a second car. The second one is a '97 Subaru. Cost $2300.

Edited February 11, 2020 by clo

[clo]

9 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

Hmm, just a little pomp and splendor there  Clo.  😎

My point is that if you get to retirement age, have a paid for house, no credit card debt, comfortably funded IRA/401(k) you may easily be a millionaire.

 

Related, we just visited a senior living place in Seattle. A one bedroom with "den" apartment and 25 meal per month per person would be over $6k per month for two people. We've been looking at that math for about ten years and planning accordingly...and adjusting discretionary spending accordingly.

[clo]

5 hours ago, ducklite said:

I hope you were dripping with sarcasm.

Me too. Absolutely.

[Stateroom_Sailor]

4 hours ago, ducklite said:

He declared bankruptcy.  I highly doubt he paid off every dine he owed.

 

Did you make any mistakes in your 20's?  If you were going to a nutritionist, would it matter if you saw photos of them eating pizza 35 years ago?  At the very least, a broken clock is right twice a day, which includes both Dave Ramsey and his critics.  Each piece of advice should be examined independently of how one views the guy, good or bad.

[That sinking feeling]

10 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

I think a vast portion of the population might disagree with this statement.  

I know the vast portion of the population will. It's quite clear that there are two parallel worlds these days. One inhabited by the majority on here and that other one that doesn't have two cents to rub together.

 

And using the stat used earlier that's probably 97% of the population.

[That sinking feeling]

9 hours ago, ducklite said:

He declared bankruptcy.  I highly doubt he paid off every dine he owed.

And why should he? Businesses go bust all the time and the owners always seem to just start up again. If a business can go bust and not pay its debts then start back up why shouldn't individuals?

[Joebucks]

Financial advice is always a topic that is funny to watch and flares up many emotions. The truth is, we all make different decisions. That is a hard concept for many to grasp because of the political climate we've created. Some have discovered you can make a great victim following if you teach them that their poor decisions are not their fault, and you are their solution.

 

I started working retail when I was a teen. I didn't have much to my name. Put in as many hours as I could. I liked having nice things, but would never ever, spend more than I had. College, car, luxuries, found ways to be responsible with all of them. Saved a chunk for a house, retirement, etc. Worked hard to get a few promotions. What I will say is I don't make anything near the 6 figure mark. However, at 33 my overall position is quite comfortable, and it would often be put down as something unrealistic to many people.

 

Ever take a look at the victims? Poor work ethic, excuses, poor spending habits, and many other poor life choices I won't get into. Can't afford to save for retirement, but can afford cigarettes, coffee, fast food, etc EVERY DAY. Yet the credit card is the problem. Are we blaming the food for all of the fat people?

 

Hell, look at most of the "money saving tactics" you will read on here. Looking for "sales and free" stuff like those things translate into something. $4,000 is $4,000 and your financials don't care about the marketing headlines or how something made you "feel". This could be my opinion, which is fine. However, you are going to have a hard time convincing me that my cruises paid for entirely by credit card points that I earned without putting myself into debt, or paying interest/fees on, is a bad thing.