News on the Westerdam

[SunNFunCruzer]

1 hour ago, HappyInVan said:

 

"Is it possible to contract COVID-19 from someone who is not showing symptoms?

 

Those with no symptoms are less likely to have nasal discharge or cough, and are hence less likely to transmit the virus. In truth, we suspect the actual risk to be very low."

 

https://www.gov.sg/article/infectious-disease-specialist-answers-questions-on-covid-19

 

The airlines should follow the East Asian example. Issue masks to passengers on the aircraft. Many of the infected returning from China did this. Did not infect others.

 

 

The British business man who was in Singapore, then a French Ski Lodge, then back to the UK infected 11 people, is called a SuperCarrier or SuperSpreader and had no symptoms.   IMO what you've written/pasted above  ^^^ is the Government's way of avoiding a panic because there is no way to tell if an asymptomatic person is infected and life must go on.

 

 

"I have confidence that the situation will not get out of control (this time) as the governments are alert."

"Plenty of time to identify and test suspected cases."

 

The US CDC Director disagrees with you:

 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/13/health/coronavirus-cdc-robert-redfield-gupta-intv/index.html

Edited February 16, 2020 by SunNFunCruzer

[npcl]

1 hour ago, hal2008 said:

 

There is no way to ascertain that only one person is the source of all these infections.

 

Given that virus can survive on non-living surfaces for significant period of time, most likely people picked it up from various locations  on the ship (rather than from that one passenger) initially and then infected each other due to extremely poor isolations.

 

if one person is case 0, then all other infections that lead back either directly to that person or from others he infected, no matter the method, air, touch, surface, that case was still the source.

[HappyInVan]

9 minutes ago, SunNFunCruzer said:

 

The US CDC Director disagrees with you:

 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/13/health/coronavirus-cdc-robert-redfield-gupta-intv/index.html

 

"There's been good communication with our colleagues to confirm asymptomatic infection, to confirm asymptomatic transmission, to be able to get a better handle on the clinical spectrum of illness in China. What we don't know though is how much of the asymptomatic cases are driving transmission," Redfield said.

[SunNFunCruzer]

1 hour ago, Level six said:

 

True.  I agree.  It was one person who they identified on the previous cruise that had the virus.  That is what I meant.

 

It's also true that they have no idea IF that one person, that they have identified, is the only person who was infected at that time.  There could have been 2 or 10 people from the previous cruise or contemporaneous with that known man that were walking around touching things, leaving traces of the virus and infecting others. 

 

And I think multiple "infectors" is actually a more likely scenario unless they can isolate/identify a common strain with markers back to his DNA or something.

[SunNFunCruzer]

Just now, HappyInVan said:

 

"There's been good communication with our colleagues to confirm asymptomatic infection, to confirm asymptomatic transmission, to be able to get a better handle on the clinical spectrum of illness in China. What we don't know though is how much of the asymptomatic cases are driving transmission," Redfield said.

 

Yes. Exactly.  2 key words:  "don't" and "know"

 

And the real world example shows a Super Spreader who was asymptomatic in the UK businessman. And, if I'm not mistaken, also in the man who caused (at least some of) the problem on the Diamond Princess.

 

And that CDC Director expects Community Spread.  And the CDC is asking hospitals, etc, to report Clusters of serious respiratory cases like pneumonia even without a nexus to China, so that tells me that this will not be "nothing to see here folks, US Government's got this thing contained."

[SunNFunCruzer]

6 minutes ago, npcl said:

 

if one person is case 0, then all other infections that lead back either directly to that person or from others he infected, no matter the method, air, touch, surface, that case was still the source.

 

 

Do you really believe there is 1 patient 0?  Even with what is happening on the Westerdam?  Same general time frame.  

[HappyInVan]

3 minutes ago, SunNFunCruzer said:

 

 

Do you really believe there is 1 patient 0?  Even with what is happening on the Westerdam?  Same general time frame.  

 

 

Thanks for your expert opinion.

[SunNFunCruzer]

Just now, HappyInVan said:

 

 

Thanks for your expert opinion.

 

 

Huh?!?  It's a Question.  That poster has explained that he is a Doctor.  He clearly knows more than me about medicine and transmission of viruses.

[Stateroom_Sailor]

1 hour ago, dfish said:

Totally amazed by the number of infectious disease experts on this forum.

 

And think of all the trouble Westerdam could have avoided, by consulting us before disembarkation?

[Bertie Doe]

Latest from HAL. Reference to no cases of coronovirus plus "guests have received 100% cruise refund plus 100% future cruise credit". Hmm, what is meant by 100% cruise credit, please?

 

https://www.hollandamerica.com/blog/ships/ms-westerdam/statement-regarding-westerdam-in-japan/

 

 

Edited February 16, 2020 by MrSilversurf
link borked

[Lunar Dragon]

Dutch news reports HAL is requesting a second test to verify that the passanger has corona.   Meanwhile  another news source says a second passanger (81 year old man) has been tested twice positive for the virus.  

 Dutch passangers  are not allowed to fly home yet.  I suspect when they do they will be in quarantine at a Dutch military base until cleared.  This is what happened to those returning from mainland China.

[Alphen]

26 minutes ago, Lunar Dragon said:

Dutch news reports HAL is requesting a second test to verify that the passanger has corona.   Meanwhile  another news source says a second passanger (81 year old man) has been tested twice positive for the virus.  

 Dutch passangers  are not allowed to fly home yet.  I suspect when they do they will be in quarantine at a Dutch military base until cleared.  This is what happened to those returning from mainland China.

American woman from cruise ship tests positive again for coronavirus in Malaysia

https://www.thejakartapost.com/seasia/2020/02/16/american-woman-from-cruise-ship-tests-positive-again-for-coronavirus-in-malaysia.html?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR14FO4-I5b-aCfKsWBX9P9SVvw8zyYymdxOGW43Bi3YdyysJrqiTYueMOk#Echobox=1581847111

Edited February 16, 2020 by Alphen

[teamflames]

7 minutes ago, Alphen said:

American woman from cruise ship tests positive again for coronavirus in Malaysia

https://www.thejakartapost.com/seasia/2020/02/16/american-woman-from-cruise-ship-tests-positive-again-for-coronavirus-in-malaysia.html?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR14FO4-I5b-aCfKsWBX9P9SVvw8zyYymdxOGW43Bi3YdyysJrqiTYueMOk#Echobox=1581847111

I would trust the Malaysian authorities over the Cambodian (and HAL)

[Dr.Dobro]

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se-asia/coronavirus-american-woman-from-cruise-ship-westerdam-tests-positive-again-in-malaysia

 

Westerdam passenger tests positive a second time

 

KUALA LUMPUR (REUTERS) - An American passenger from a cruise ship docked in Cambodia has tested positive for the new coronavirus a second time in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia said on Sunday (Feb 16), after the cruise operator sought further tests.

 

Malaysia said on Saturday the 83-year-old woman who had been on board the MS Westerdam, operated by a unit of Carnival Corp, had tested positive for the virus after arriving in Kuala Lumpur from Cambodia. She was the first from the ship, which was carrying 1,455 passengers and 802 crew, to test positive.

 

Cambodian authorities also called on Malaysia to review its test results.

 

Malaysian Deputy Prime Minister Waz Azizah Wan Ismail said on Sunday a retest was carried out on the American late on Saturday night and she tested positive again. Her husband tested negative.

 

The American woman had flown to Malaysia last Friday from Cambodia along with 144 others from the ship, according to the Malaysian health ministry.

 

Following the woman's first positive test, a number of passengers, including two Dutch citizens, were denied boarding for an Amsterdam-bound KLM flight departing from Kuala Lumpur, according to the Dutch foreign ministry.

 

The tourists who were kept from boarding KLM flight 810 are still in Malaysia. A number of Dutch citizens who were aboard the Westerdam have already returned to the Netherlands.

 

There are widespread fears that cruise ships around Asia may be spreading the virus. The biggest cluster outside China has been on the Diamond Princess, quarantined off Japan's Yokohama.

 

Out of about 3,700 passengers and crew on board, 355 people have tested positive as of Sunday evening.ry.t the cruise ship operator had sought more tests.

Edited February 16, 2020 by Dr.Dobro
Formatting

[Dr.Dobro]

https://www.thestar.com.my/news/nation/2020/02/16/covid-19-tests-on-american-adhered-to-international-protocol-says-dr-wan-azizah

 

More details on infected Westerdam passenger

 

PUTRAJAYA: The 83-year-old American woman who was a passenger of cruise ship MS Westerdam was tested twice before she was confirmed to be Covid-19 (novel coronavirus) positive, says Datuk Seri Dr Wan Azizah Wan Ismail.

 

The Deputy Prime Minister said the Malaysian health authority adhered to international protocol when carrying out the tests.

 

Dr Wan Azizah, who is also the Disaster Management Centre Committee chairman, said that Health director-general Datuk Dr Noor Hisham Abdullah had shown all the test results to his Cambodian counterpart.

 

Dr Wan Azizah said she had met with the Prime Minister, the Health Minister and various relevant agency heads and held a meeting with them as well as Malaysia Airlines to discuss issues relating to Covid-19.

 

The 83-year-old woman was the first passenger from the MS Westerdam, operated by Carnival Corp unit Holland America Inc, to test positive for the virus while her husband was tested negative.

 

"The wife tested positive twice. The first one, they (Cambodian authorities) said that maybe we did not adhere to protocol.

 

"But Dr Noor Hisham said we showed everything to them and they agreed that our protocol was actually world class. So, whatever Malaysia did was right.

 

"It was not a false positive. It was a positive," Dr Wan Azizah said at a press conference here Sunday (Feb 16).

 

Earlier, the Cambodian Health Ministry had asked its Malaysian counterpart to review its test results after the woman was tested positive for the virus, Reuters reported.

 

Dr Wan Azizah said the United States Embassy in Kuala Lumpur had chartered a Malaysian Airlines flight to bring several of the cruise ship passengers from Sihanoukville in Cambodia to various destinations via KL International Airport.

 

According to the plan, MAS would prepare four rented chartered flights (MH8763) to bring 145 passengers to KLIA on Friday (Feb 14).

 

Dr Wan Azizah said that all the passengers were screened and the woman and her husband, both US citizens, were detected to have symptoms while going through thermal scanners.

 

They were sent to Hospital Sungai Buloh for further examination and the following day, the woman was tested positive.

 

She had a cough but no fever or breathlessness, while X-ray results did not show any inflammation.

 

Dr Wan Azizah said based on the results, MAS has cancelled the rest of the chartered flights, since the other passengers were considered "close contacts" of the woman.

 

Meanwhile, among the 143 others who were screened and did not have symptoms, 137 of them had continued with their journeys while six more were waiting for their connecting flights, she said.

 

According to the Health Ministry, Malaysia will be communicating with the respective countries via International Health Regulation focal points for further monitoring of the 137 passengers.

 

The remaining six passengers waiting for their flights here will have to go through Covid-19 tests, she said.

 

"If they are found negative, they will be allowed to continue with their journey.

 

"However, if they test positive, they will be brought to hospital for observation," she said.

 

Dr Wan Azizah also said the government has decided not to allow any cruise ships that had left China or transit there to enter Malaysia.

 

The remainder of the passengers on the MS Westerdam cruise ship in Cambodia will not be allowed to enter Malaysia since they were all close contacts of the American woman, she said.

 

Dr Wan Azizah said that the MS Westerdam carried 2,257 people with 1,455 passengers and 802 crew members.

 

The ship had docked in Hong Kong for a day before going on a 14-day East Asia cruise journey on Thursday (Feb 13).

 

The ship was not allowed to dock at several countries before it was allowed to at Sihanoukville on Feb 13.

 

 

Edited February 16, 2020 by Dr.Dobro
Formatting

[Just_Westy]

Now Malaysia have banned passegers from the Westerdam from travelling.

 

https://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/nation/2020/02/16/no-more-passengers-from-westerdam-cruise-ship-allowed-into-malaysia/

 

“The remaining passengers on the Westerdam cruise ship, who are still in Cambodia, will not be allowed into Malaysia as the passengers are assumed to have been in close contact with the case which has been confirmed positive,” said Deputy Prime Minister Dr Wan Azizah Wan Ismail at a press conference today.

Wan Azizah explained that the American embassy in Kuala Lumpur had chartered a Malaysia Airlines flight to bring a group of people from the cruise ship to Malaysia.

[kazu]

2 hours ago, MrSilversurf said:

Latest from HAL. Reference to no cases of coronovirus plus "guests have received 100% cruise refund plus 100% future cruise credit". Hmm, what is meant by 100% cruise credit, please?

 

https://www.hollandamerica.com/blog/ships/ms-westerdam/statement-regarding-westerdam-in-japan/

 

 

 

They did reference a 2nd test in the blog and, if the blog is accurate, it sounds like there are still 236 passengers on the ship.  

100% cruise credit is a credit towards the purchase of a future cruise equal to how much they paid for this one.

[hypercafe]

This is really a problem as this could really spread the virus to places it hasn't been as 137 people took off to places around the world along with the other passengers on their planes, airport personal and passengers and all those people in Cambodia glad handing and hugging everyone in sight. So much for containment. Everyone feels sorry for people stuck overseas however sometimes the good of the many must prevail.

[HALrunner]

I recall passengers were being disembarked in waves. Are any of the passengers still on the Westerdam? 

[Alphen]

3 minutes ago, HALrunner said:

I recall passengers were being disembarked in waves. Are any of the passengers still on the Westerdam? 

From the official blog upadate from HAL;

 

https://www.hollandamerica.com/blog/ships/ms-westerdam/statement-regarding-westerdam-in-japan/

 

Westerdam is alongside in Sihanoukville, Cambodia, with 236 guests and 747 crew on board. The remainder of guests from the voyage departed Sihanoukville via charter flights to Phnom Penh yesterday and today and are in various stages of transit home.

[kazu]

4 minutes ago, HALrunner said:

I recall passengers were being disembarked in waves. Are any of the passengers still on the Westerdam? 

 

If I am reading the HAL blog correctly, it sounds like there are still 230+ passengers still on board.

 

oops looks like Alphen and I were typing at the same time.

 

[dado123456]

So where is cca 1200 passengers now?

Everybody's talking about that group of 143/137.

[kazu]

8 minutes ago, dado123456 said:

So where is cca 1200 passengers now?

Everybody's talking about that group of 143/137.

 

If I understood correctly, they have headed home and authorities have been alerted.

[dado123456]

Malaysia Airlines Bhd (MAB) has cancelled three out of the four flights chartered by the United States embassy in Kuala Lumpur to fly back passengers of the Cambodia-docked cruise ship.

...

"The US Embassy in Kuala Lumpur charted Malaysia Airlines flights to fly some of the passengers of the cruise ship from the Sihanoukville International Airport in Cambodia to the respective passengers’ final destination via KLIA.

“According to the initial plan, Malaysia Airlines prepared four special flights beginning Feb 14 until Feb 16. At the moment, only one of the chartered flight, MH8763, with 145 passengers on board landed at KLIA at 7pm on Feb 14."

https://www.nst.com.my/news/nation/2020/02/566140/malaysia-airlines-cancels-three-flights-repatriating-american-cruise-ship

Edited February 16, 2020 by dado123456

[Moparop]

My parents and others are a (multiple?) hotels in Cambodia. They spent a day at the Phnom Penh airport in a holding area on the 15th with other passengers and were taken from there to the hotel.