HAL needs to STEP UP.....Unacceptable

[FredT]

53 minutes ago, HUNGRYGREEK said:

HAL waited for the President to order them to shut down for one, and only one, reason.....That extra couple of days after Princess ceased operations and HAL stayed open forced thousands of us to cancel our reservations and be forced to take the future cruise credit instead of the very likely refund possibility everyone else will get not that their cruises are cancelled.  By doing this they kept millions of dollars under their total control and we had no choice. Talk about corporate greed..... 

You want "corporate greed"... Take a wander over to the Norwegian board.   THEY have been playing the game to the hilt!.  (Makes HAL look magnanimous)    Lots of talk over there that they are on the edge of Bankruptcy and are frantic to NOT give away any cash.   (I am just off a shortened NCL cruise.  They told us we were getting 25% of our base fare back.... Then gave us 19% and THATS IT...)  

[Qcruise]

HAL did step up last night and began to cancel it's operations,  through April 14th at this point,  we're waiting for our date to be included and the offer seems very good.  Once things get back to normal we'll jump on a last minute deal.

[iancal]

Who really knows if the were ordered to shut down, were strongly persuaded to shut down, shut down because of competitive pressure ,or decided to shut down because with so many cancellations they could not even cover their variable costs let alone their fixed costs.    
 

It could well be that for HAL, and for other cruise lines, the operating losses sustained by operating cruises well below capacity exceed the losses of parking the ships for a few months.  Tough choice for the cruise lines.   The airlines are in the same predicament. Westjet had a YYC/LAX flight with only 12 passengers.  You know where that is going. Flight cancellations and layoffs..

[AlanF65]

7 hours ago, Wehwalt said:

I am not aware of any case of clawbacks of consumer refunds. I am considering whether to get my money out. I have not decided. Posts like the above move me in the direction of refund. 

 

Sorry if that doesn’t float your boat. It is not my job to. 

Everyone needs to do what they are comfortable with. The point that I didn't make well was we don't need to stand on the street yelling fire to create a run on the bank so to speak.

 

If everyone with a HAL cruise in the next two years wanted their money back next week that would lead to a quicker bankruptcy, and that is the only condition I would see where passenger funds being clawed back based on who was able to get through on the phone and who wasn't, if it takes 1-2 years then there would be no claw-back. I believe my credit card insurance covers bankruptcy. I will need to go read the policy.

 

I don't know how big my haircut will be in this market but on Wednesday I modeled reducing travel once I retire (2-3 years max). I could also move out of state to a lower tax state but that means being away from family.  That will be the long term hit to the economy, those close to or in retirement that just lost future income with not a lot of time to grow it back.

 

I could have cancelled today before the latest announcement and lost $25 (May 18th Alaska Cruise). I decided I could live with 50% back and FCC and didn't have 8 hours to wait on the phone. Now I will just wait and see if they offer more in FCC than cash I may take that.  I was going on two cruises this year so HAL or Princess will have to give me money back, I won't have time for both later in the year.

 

I didn't mean to make this seem like a simple decision, its not and its individual based on everyone own circumstances.

[atexsix]

2 hours ago, FredT said:

You want "corporate greed"... Take a wander over to the Norwegian board.   THEY have been playing the game to the hilt!.  (Makes HAL look magnanimous)    Lots of talk over there that they are on the edge of Bankruptcy and are frantic to NOT give away any cash.   (I am just off a shortened NCL cruise.  They told us we were getting 25% of our base fare back.... Then gave us 19% and THATS IT...)  

 

Aren't they a private company without shareholders? Without a steady stream of capital, they may very well indeed be cash-strapped. 

 

I never sailed them due to their stinginess of not offering a single supp back in the days when many cruise lines did this.  However they do offer single cabins on some ships, kudos for reinventing the wheel, I applaud companies that can think outside the box, so I hope to one day cruise with them.

[thyme2go]

2 hours ago, dmcfad2 said:

Wow. I think you’re right. Now I get it. I canceled my cruise yesterday morning after they closed all of the French Polynesian ports a few days ago and I heard nothing but crickets about my cruise that was going there. I got a 100% FCC, but no option for a cash refund. I just couldn’t figure out why they weren’t canceling the cruise, so I canceled myself. Hopefully they will do the right thing and offer us a cash refund when the dust clears.

BINGO!     I don't hold out hope that HAL will do anything 'right'....... our FCC (cancellation) was the only action we could take while living in western washington's hot zone.    If they behave this way with a cruise crisis--- passengers would be jettisoned in order to keep the ship afloat........an apt metaphor, I think!     

[Lovincruisin1321]

21 hours ago, Midwest Sunseeker said:

We just received an email from Holland.

This is just plain rude!  When everyone is already anxious about what HAL is going to do, you dangle a carrot with "We just received an email from Holland"?   Seriously?  Wow!

[iancal]

I continue to be amazed at the sense of entitlement and self importance of people on the forum.

 

The cruise lines are struggling with change, volume, and port changes.  Give them time to figure it out and process the appropriate refunds, credits.

 

Just be thankful that you or a love one is not in a hospital bed.  Or worse.  Many people are loosing their livelihoods over this and the ensuing financial repercussions.  Businesses will fail and close for good. There are people with far greater issues than a two hour hold time or an immediate refund or credit note.

 

I am not a huge fan of corporate America the cruise line lobby.  But these folks, the airlines, the leisure travel firms, and the insurers need time to work through this.  
 

One thing is certain.  Those firms with first rate, flexible, customer focussed IT systems will be in a much better position to work through this for their customers than those with sub standard IT groups.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 14, 2020 by iancal

[rotjeknor]

22 hours ago, AlanF65 said:

Well worse case they go bankrupt and then they claw back the cash anyone received early to distribute among every passenger that is owed, so there is no need for a run on the bank so to speak. That completely devalues the asset value of the business if no one will sail with them or pay in advance in the future.

 

Its in the interest of passengers who have paid and their interest that they stay afloat financially.

 

When the world is shuttered there are lots of businesses that are on tight margins that will need help. Cruising is a profitable business, customers will be back, there is value if they can't keep themselves going for someone else to step in Should they layoff all their employees and send them home and cancel their contracts keeping min engineering and staff on board to take care of the ship? I am sure there are millions in supply orders that need to be cancelled in many ports.

 

They need to have time to solve the problem so those of us that want to cruise again can. I will take my May Alaska HAL cruise later this year or next year and will accept a FCC once they define the policy.

A-

 

 

 

Completely agree with you ! If HAL were to pay everybody back in cash they would go broke.

I got one cruise in april that is definitely a no-go, another one late april and one in june fingers crossed . But it would be nice if there's still a ship I can sail on...

I'm losing money on the economy comfort seats on the flights I had booked, oh well.

I had an excursion booked on the Azores, pre paid it, had to cancel it but told the tour company he can keep my money. He needs it more than I since everybody is cancelling. So everybody 's hurting one way or another. let's not get selfish and demand cash or more than 100% .

[debc]

To answer the question that was asked respecting why I was Canadian and paid in US funds - the answer is because it was a group booking and the group organizer was in the US thus the cruise fare that was negotiated for the group was in US currency.

 

I will just sit tight right now.  My cruise is/was the 14th day Alaskan on the Maasdam on May 4th leaving from Vancouver.  Canada has closed down Canadian cruise ports until June so we will wait for Holland America to cancel the cruise.  I do not believe it will happen, so I am not making flight or hotel arrangements.

 

Deb C

[iancal]

We are Canadian.  It is not unusual at all for us to buy cruises in USD.  We have also purchased in AUD.  Prices can differ between countries for the same cruise so we shop. Sometimes the price differences can be significant-as much as 25 or 30 percent.

 

 We are in Mexico at the moment.  Two of our five day hotel sops were purchased in GBP from UK travel sites.  Why....large price differences.  20%.  
 

it is one reason why we use a card with no FX premium.

Edited March 16, 2020 by iancal

[ithaca gal]

On 3/14/2020 at 2:16 PM, iancal said:

I continue to be amazed at the sense of entitlement and self importance of people on the forum.

 

The cruise lines are struggling with change, volume, and port changes.  Give them time to figure it out and process the appropriate refunds, credits.

 

Just be thankful that you or a love one is not in a hospital bed.  Or worse.  Many people are loosing their livelihoods over this and the ensuing financial repercussions.  Businesses will fail and close for good. There are people with far greater issues than a two hour hold time or an immediate refund or credit note.

 

I am not a huge fan of corporate America the cruise line lobby.  But these folks, the airlines, the leisure travel firms, and the insurers need time to work through this.  
 

One thing is certain.  Those firms with first rate, flexible, customer focussed IT systems will be in a much better position to work through this for their customers than those with sub standard IT groups.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ithaca gal]

Spot on.

[npcl]

On 3/14/2020 at 9:26 AM, atexsix said:

 

Aren't they a private company without shareholders? Without a steady stream of capital, they may very well indeed be cash-strapped. 

 

I never sailed them due to their stinginess of not offering a single supp back in the days when many cruise lines did this.  However they do offer single cabins on some ships, kudos for reinventing the wheel, I applaud companies that can think outside the box, so I hope to one day cruise with them.

NCLH is a publicly traded company and does have shareholders.

[Pee-ah]

On 3/14/2020 at 12:16 PM, iancal said:

I continue to be amazed at the sense of entitlement and self importance of people on the forum.

 

The cruise lines are struggling with change, volume, and port changes.  Give them time to figure it out and process the appropriate refunds, credits.

 

Just be thankful that you or a love one is not in a hospital bed.  Or worse.  Many people are loosing their livelihoods over this and the ensuing financial repercussions.  Businesses will fail and close for good. There are people with far greater issues than a two hour hold time or an immediate refund or credit note.

 

I am not a huge fan of corporate America the cruise line lobby.  But these folks, the airlines, the leisure travel firms, and the insurers need time to work through this.  
 

One thing is certain.  Those firms with first rate, flexible, customer focussed IT systems will be in a much better position to work through this for their customers than those with sub standard IT groups.

Could

you please run for office!

 

On 3/14/2020 at 12:16 PM, iancal said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

[doone]

On 3/14/2020 at 3:16 PM, iancal said:

I continue to be amazed at the sense of entitlement and self importance of people on the forum.

 

The cruise lines are struggling with change, volume, and port changes.  Give them time to figure it out and process the appropriate refunds, credits.

 

Just be thankful that you or a love one is not in a hospital bed.  Or worse.  Many people are loosing their livelihoods over this and the ensuing financial repercussions.  Businesses will fail and close for good. There are people with far greater issues than a two hour hold time or an immediate refund or credit note.

 

I am not a huge fan of corporate America the cruise line lobby.  But these folks, the airlines, the leisure travel firms, and the insurers need time to work through this.  
 

One thing is certain.  Those firms with first rate, flexible, customer focussed IT systems will be in a much better position to work through this for their customers than those with sub standard IT groups.

 

 

 

 

 

Couldn’t agree more, these are unprecedented times, be patient while everyone figures things out..........

[old mike]

I so agree with the comments by Iancal.

 

I'm staggered at the attitude of entitlement and bluntly disgusted at the self interest and personal gain so clearly espoused by some on this site.

 

Trying times bring out both the best but also reveals the lack of mores in some. 

 

There are many in this world outside of the supposedly developed world with zero access to any kind of medical care or any care and support other than the immediate family, I've lived and worked among them and I feel for them at this time.