Bailouts for Carnival

[lottiegreen56]

I know we're all here together because we like cruises or are  interested in cruising. As much as I love the activity, I'm going to be livid if they bailout the cruise industry. These companies have avoided taxes and hiring US workers for years and shouldn't take advantage of the American public fiske. Businesses shouldn't operate under the assumption that we are going to bail them out when they are on the verge of failing. Pull yourselves up by the bootstraps.

 

Am I the only one thinking this way? 

Edited March 19, 2020 by lottiegreen56

[RiotAct]

No you are not alone.  I hope they don’t get a bailout either.

[Stick93]

You have a point - But we cannot get americans to work many jobs in the country and the politicians tell us this is why we need people of foreign countries who may not be citizens to work those jobs. I am all for american made - but the reason its not made here is its cheaper other places and people don't want to buy it at a higher price . Call a spade a spade - we as a whole could not afford cruising if it was staffed and overlooked by american and by american law. It is a cheap and affordable vacation because of the work they have the non American workers do. We throw them $14-15 a day/per person (all of them) as a tip and think we have made it all right. Sorry we cannot have our cake and eat it to. This argument only has teeth if we are willing to pay more - maybe even a lot more for this product.

Please also take into account all the people who benefit as well on our soil from the cruises. From the people who come a remover garbage, drive us to the ports, hotels around the ports, the the food supliers and people they employ,  to the porters and people who register us. Thousands of workers and hundreds of billions of dollars that benifite our citizens. 

Before you write off the cruises think about the foundations they all support and communities in which they have paird up with to make a difference. Yes they have their quirks and some are as unfair as all the other big corporations and their off shore tax breaks and quirks.

If you bail out airlines they deserve a one time pass as well - Hell I pay $700 to go to San Juan and then I get hit with a $35 luggage fee per person, thats robbery at its best and we accept it. 

[doublebzz]

The term "bailout" has assumed a derogatory connotation in my view.  Most, if not all, the companies that received "bailouts" in the form of low or no interest loans during the 2008-09 financial crisis repaid those loans.  

[Cafedumonde]

Since our government asked the cruise companies to shut down, the odds are pretty high that our government will help them in some capacity.  The cruise industry has headquarters in the US and employs many people on US soil.

[rufflesmom]

41 minutes ago, lottiegreen56 said:

I know we're all here together because we like cruises or are  interested in cruising. As much as I love the activity, I'm going to be livid if they bailout the cruise industry. These companies have avoided taxes and hiring US workers for years and shouldn't take advantage of the American public fiske. Businesses shouldn't operate under the assumption that we are going to bail them out when they are on the verge of failing. Pull yourselves up by the bootstraps.

 

Am I the only one thinking this way? 

 

Another cruise line tried to employ an all american crew.  It didn't work because Americans won't work the long hours that is required on a cruise ship.  It didn't last very long at all. 

 

President Trump asked the cruiselines to suspend operations for a time and they have complied with that request.  As another poster said, airlines have started charging for everything, some even for carryon bags.  So why should they get a bailout?  Auto makers are suspending operations too, do they deserve a bailout?  We the people (because it IS us that will be paying for it) can't bail out every industry that is suffering from this.  I don't want to sound heartless, I know people are suffering.  Our son has 2 jobs and both have been affected by this.  He will very soon have no job.  With 5 children to feed.  With all these companies that  are closing down, millions of people suddenly have no paycheck coming in.  Those are the ones who really need a bailout.

[Stick93]

2 minutes ago, rufflesmom said:

 

Another cruise line tried to employ an all american crew.  It didn't work because Americans won't work the long hours that is required on a cruise ship.  It didn't last very long at all. 

 

President Trump asked the cruiselines to suspend operations for a time and they have complied with that request.  As another poster said, airlines have started charging for everything, some even for carryon bags.  So why should they get a bailout?  Auto makers are suspending operations too, do they deserve a bailout?  We the people (because it IS us that will be paying for it) can't bail out every industry that is suffering from this.  I don't want to sound heartless, I know people are suffering.  Our son has 2 jobs and both have been affected by this.  He will very soon have no job.  With 5 children to feed.  With all these companies that  are closing down, millions of people suddenly have no paycheck coming in.  Those are the ones who really need a bailout.

Let put it this way - this is a bad situation and thank god we don't have to make these decisions as they will be devastating to so many and there will be a lot of pain to spread around. 

[TNcruising02]

The cruise industry affects our economy in many ways.  I am sure people who have hotels, restaurants, bars, and transportation businesses in port cities are praying the cruise industry lasts.  People fly to port cities, eat at local restaurants, stay in local hotels, and use local transportation.  That's a lot of money generated for American workers.  It's not all about the ship itself.  One affects the livelihood of the other.

The cruise lines were asked to stopped sailing by our government and they did.  I am sure our government will do what they think is best for Americans.  If that includes helping the cruise lines through this disaster, then that is best for people who live in our country, whether some can see the big picture or not.

[Saint Greg]

If the ships were registered in the US and employed all american workers, cruises would probably be out of our price range and we wouldn't get the level of service we do now.

 

Think about people employed at the HQ, at the ports, and the thousands of tourists they bring to port cities each port day. The flights, the hotels, the restaurants, the Ubers.

 

As I understand it the cruise lines haven't asked for any assistance. But if they do it will be a loan to get them back on their feet. I'm okay with that. 

 

 

[lottiegreen56]

4 minutes ago, Saint Greg said:

If the ships were registered in the US and employed all american workers, cruises would probably be out of our price range and we wouldn't get the level of service we do now.

 

Think about people employed at the HQ, at the ports, and the thousands of tourists they bring to port cities each port day. The flights, the hotels, the restaurants, the Ubers.

 

As I understand it the cruise lines haven't asked for any assistance. But if they do it will be a loan to get them back on their feet. I'm okay with that. 

 

 

 

I'd be ok with a loan at favourable interest rates to the US people 

[Stick93]

1 minute ago, lottiegreen56 said:

 

I'd be ok with a loan at favourable interest rates to the US people 

intrest rates are zero now!

[Joebucks]

Cruises are an essential business, otherwise we wouldn't have the 15ish US ports we have. There is no way they go bankrupt from this. I wouldn't be surprised to see aid from the government, and maybe even some concessions from that.

[SLCfirsttimer]

1 hour ago, lottiegreen56 said:

I know we're all here together because we like cruises or are  interested in cruising. As much as I love the activity, I'm going to be livid if they bailout the cruise industry. These companies have avoided taxes and hiring US workers for years and shouldn't take advantage of the American public fiske. Businesses shouldn't operate under the assumption that we are going to bail them out when they are on the verge of failing. Pull yourselves up by the bootstraps.

 

Am I the only one thinking this way? 

A lot of big American businesses take steps to minimize or avoid taxes, demand tax credits to locate their operations (see Facebook, Amazon, Google, and a long list of others), and generally rely on corporate welfare while raking in billions of dollars a year. This isn't a unique to Carnival situation.

[bigdog1958]

14 minutes ago, Joebucks said:

Cruises are an essential business, otherwise we wouldn't have the 15ish US ports we have. There is no way they go bankrupt from this. I wouldn't be surprised to see aid from the government, and maybe even some concessions from that.

so are airlines but some of them went bankrupt.  bankruptcy does not mean going out of business. it means stock holders and creditors would be the ones losing as they may get pennies back on their dollars

[TNcruising02]

Trump just said that he spoke with Carnival cruise lines and they have offered to make ships available, if needed.

[Joe817]

What a fascinating topic of conversion! And I appreciate that it has remained a thoughtful and respectful discussion.

Here are a few of my random thoughts:

1.)  I wonder how much do cruise lines contribute to the American economy? Does anyone know? I thought I saw a number last week, somewhere that their contribution to the U.S. economy was in the neighborhood of $53 billion dollars. Not chump change at all.

2.) I agree with Greg, Joebucks and a few others: If cruise lines employed only Americans, the cost passed down to us(the cruisers) would be cost prohibitive form MANY of us who now cruise. I certainly couldn't afford a 4 or 5 thousand dollar cruise that costs me now $1,800.

 

[CruisingFromLA]

3 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

Trump just said that he spoke with Carnival cruise lines and they have offered to make ships available, if needed.

When Trump said that, I thought that this is a great idea. Providing extra beds as needed on the ships. Of course the US government will compensate Carnival for this. As a Los Angeles native, I am curious if they can utilize the rooms to house the homeless, as the biggest concern right now is how the homeless cannot self isolate and that the virus will spread among the homeless community.

[TNcruising02]

2 minutes ago, CruisingFromLA said:

When Trump said that, I thought that this is a great idea. Providing extra beds as needed on the ships. Of course the US government will compensate Carnival for this. As a Los Angeles native, I am curious if they can utilize the rooms to house the homeless, as the biggest concern right now is how the homeless cannot self isolate and that the virus will spread among the homeless community.

I can't even imagine how difficult this is in areas with high homeless populations.

[TNcruising02]

Trump just said he will be helping the cruise line industry.

[cmukid87]

5 hours ago, lottiegreen56 said:

I know we're all here together because we like cruises or are  interested in cruising. As much as I love the activity, I'm going to be livid if they bailout the cruise industry. These companies have avoided taxes and hiring US workers for years and shouldn't take advantage of the American public fiske. Businesses shouldn't operate under the assumption that we are going to bail them out when they are on the verge of failing. Pull yourselves up by the bootstraps.

 

Am I the only one thinking this way? 

I don't think anyone who has supported the cruise industry has any right to oppose a bailout based on your thoughts.  If you truly had a problem with the workforce and how they interpret and use tax advantages then you shouldn't be cruising.

 

Everyone should keep in mind that yes, the government asked the industry to shut down and they complied.  The cruise lines aren't being crushed financially because of malfeasance or bad business decisions.  The pandemic is completely out of their hands.  

[bigdog1958]

2 hours ago, TNcruising02 said:

Trump just said he will be helping the cruise line industry.

Only if congress will go along with it.  Since the majority of the states are not directly effected by the cruise industry, it may be a tough sell.

[doublebzz]

22 minutes ago, cmukid87 said:

 

 

23 minutes ago, cmukid87 said:

I don't think anyone who has supported the cruise industry has any right to oppose a bailout based on your thoughts.  If you truly had a problem with the workforce and how they interpret and use tax advantages then you shouldn't be cruising.

 

Everyone should keep in mind that yes, the government asked the industry to shut down and they complied.  The cruise lines aren't being crushed financially because of malfeasance or bad business decisions.  The pandemic is completely out of their hands.  

Boy you hit this right on the head.  The fact that a lot of posters, that apparently are cruisers, are bashing the cruise industry now smacks of hypocrisy.

[NavyCruiser]

3 hours ago, Joe817 said:

 

1.)  I wonder how much do cruise lines contribute to the American economy? Does anyone know? I thought I saw a number last week, somewhere that their contribution to the U.S. economy was in the neighborhood of $53 billion dollars. Not chump change at all.

 

 

Not true.

https://thehustle.co/the-economics-of-cruise-ships/

Some facts:

Total revenues of ALL/Global cruise lines are $46 Billion.

3 players — Carnival Corporation & PLC, Royal Caribbean Cruises LTD, and Norweigan Cruise Line HLD — control roughly 75% of the market. 

All have headquarters in Miami, Florida.

But Carnival is incorporated in Panama and flies the flags of Panama and the Bahamas; Norwegian is incorporated in, and flies the flag of, the Bahamas; Royal Caribbean has been incorporated in Liberia since 1985, and flies the flags of the Bahamas and Malta.

According to annual report filings, the major cruise lines pay an average tax rate of 0.8% — for below the 21% US corporate tax rate.

So true contribution, tax-wise, to the economy is negligible.

Of course, add in airlines & other transportation, & US employees' salary taxes contribution...

 

[nhraformula00]

O.P. they do not need a BAIL OUT, they can go to the bank holding their current borrowing and borrow more to get them through. 

[jimbo5544]

11 hours ago, Cafedumonde said:

Since our government asked the cruise companies to shut down, the odds are pretty high that our government will help them in some capacity.  The cruise industry has headquarters in the US and employs many people on US soil.

Did I hear a bingo!