SS Future Re-Open Plan: Timing, Testing Needs??!!

[Randyk47]

1 hour ago, tosteve1 said:

10% of asymptomatic patients who are tested pre-op for elective surgery are positive. In my clinic we are running 30-50% positivity rate on children with colds. Being on on a cruise ship where 1% of people are positive sounds safe to me!

Problem we have locally is that your chances of contracting Covid is so high that being out of your house and bubble is an issue.  Going to the airport to catch a cruise that may or may not happen is not encouraging.

[les37b]

13 hours ago, tosteve1 said:

10% of asymptomatic patients who are tested pre-op for elective surgery are positive. In my clinic we are running 30-50% positivity rate on children with colds. Being on on a cruise ship where 1% of people are positive sounds safe to me!

 

Agree on the thoughts, but unfortunately the implications for embarking, the cruise itself and disembarking are far reaching.

 

The 2 guests on the Moon currently isolating had no idea they had it and only found out because they are responsible adults and had both been testing every other day. I suspect there will be a wake up call on the 16th when guests take the mandatory PCR that Ecuador need for entry and suspect something very smelly will hit the fan.

 

Many guests left the ship yesterday, preferring to fly from Costa Rica where no test is needed but quite possibly infected.

 

The reaction from Ecuador is crazy. My wife will have "served" 6 days in the brig by the time we arrive. This counts for nothing. She then is expected to quarantine for a minimum of 14 days and only released once she gets a negative PCR, which as we know, can take quite a while after recovery. She has zero symptoms.... Not even a runny nose or raised temperature. (Her temp has been 36.1 or 36.2 everyday.... Including now in quarantine.

 

It seems like a racket to me.

Edited January 16, 2022 by les37b

[Silver Spectre]

This may not be a popular post, but I believe that SS should cancel its current cruises and have a break for a month or so to let things settle back down. The world cruisers might be unhappy and would probably get asked if they wished to continue, but if they did they may be better off skipping ports for a couple of weeks and not allowing any segmenters on. Looking at Les's posts on the current Moon voyage it looks pretty much as if his wife and the other female guest got infected either from someone else on the ship (crew?) or whilst on a port tour. Its worth noting that they are guests who took their own LF tests with them, tested every couple of days and self reported when positive. For all we know the ship may have a number of other guests who are asymptomatic, SS has stopped mid voyage testing, but not explained why.  At present its not too awful (but not nice either) if people are quarantining onboard the ships, but getting kicked off and ending up in quarantine somewhere like Ecuador for an extra 14 days and needing a negative PCR to escape is not an outcome that most guests would vote for.

[cece50]

7 hours ago, Silver Spectre said:

This may not be a popular post, but I believe that SS should cancel its current cruises and have a break for a month or so to let things settle back down. The world cruisers might be unhappy and would probably get asked if they wished to continue, but if they did they may be better off skipping ports for a couple of weeks and not allowing any segmenters on. Looking at Les's posts on the current Moon voyage it looks pretty much as if his wife and the other female guest got infected either from someone else on the ship (crew?) or whilst on a port tour. Its worth noting that they are guests who took their own LF tests with them, tested every couple of days and self reported when positive. For all we know the ship may have a number of other guests who are asymptomatic, SS has stopped mid voyage testing, but not explained why.  At present its not too awful (but not nice either) if people are quarantining onboard the ships, but getting kicked off and ending up in quarantine somewhere like Ecuador for an extra 14 days and needing a negative PCR to escape is not an outcome that most guests would vote for.

I have to agree with your assessment. Following some of these stories on CC & FB and it’s all so crazy.  Testing all the time, all types of tests, PCR, antigen, now self testing. Who knows how accurate these tests are, who knows if people are actually very ill.  Add to that foreign ports with various restrictions.  Time for a timeout.  Feel bad for the couple who self reported since she no symptoms & he is negative. No good deed goes unpunished.  Hope they get home soon. 

[markham]

It goes without saying that Silversea was absolutely right in requiring up to date vaccinations for Covid as a condition of boarding the ships. Ditto every other company concerned with our safety and the viability of the industry. Otherwise the case numbers and severity of these infections would be absolutely terrible. Science and common sense prevail and will take us forward.

 

Happy and healthy sailing!

[Charleyben]

It will be a long time before Covid will be eradicated from cruise ships, if ever.  

 

I agree that that having been fully vaccinated should be compulsory for all passengers with no exceptions.

 

At some stage a decision will have to be made when things move forward. All the available evidence is showing that the effects of the Omicron strain upon those who are fully vaccinated and without underlying health conditions are no worse than flu.

 

Everyone booking a cruise are able to make their own risk assessment based on current available data and the state of their health.

 

I am of the opinion that either the cruise operators cancel all cruises or otherwise resume normal service.  I see little or no point in isolating those who test positive who are asymptomatic or who have minor symptoms.

 

Influenza was never deemed to be a reason to isolate passengers in the past.  The only serious infection that has historically caused major disruption to the cruise industry is norovirus.

 

The current system of conducting various on board testing cannot eradicate the virus and is quite simply not achieving the desired result.  Without introducing some draconian and unworkable restrictions it is impossible to keep a cruise ship Covid free.

 

Here in the UK, all indications from our Government is that we are going to have to learn to live with it and that all current restrictions will soon be lifted.

[les37b]

14 hours ago, Silver Spectre said:

This may not be a popular post, but I believe that SS should cancel its current cruises and have a break for a month or so to let things settle back down. The world cruisers might be unhappy and would probably get asked if they wished to continue, but if they did they may be better off skipping ports for a couple of weeks and not allowing any segmenters on. Looking at Les's posts on the current Moon voyage it looks pretty much as if his wife and the other female guest got infected either from someone else on the ship (crew?) or whilst on a port tour. Its worth noting that they are guests who took their own LF tests with them, tested every couple of days and self reported when positive. For all we know the ship may have a number of other guests who are asymptomatic, SS has stopped mid voyage testing, but not explained why.  At present its not too awful (but not nice either) if people are quarantining onboard the ships, but getting kicked off and ending up in quarantine somewhere like Ecuador for an extra 14 days and needing a negative PCR to escape is not an outcome that most guests would vote for.

 

It's bloody popular from my perspective.

 

Anyone failing today's PCR faces 2 weeks in the mercy of an Ecuadorian quarantine. I've seen firsthand how bad it is onboard a Silversea ship, so that prospect is unbelievably scary 

 

At the last count there are 36 guests doing the whole cruise. The list of cancelled ports and countries grow and you can't ignore that for anyone on this trip now and enjoying what they have to come, are so because they are enjoying the ship. Where it goes becomes irrelevant and I rather suspect they will be expecting a full refund anyway.  

 

If the numbers failing the PCR are high (and I suspect they will be) any decision to throw people under the bus with  2 weeks of hell will I think have huge consequences. I for one would never sail with Silversea again and cancel future bookings I have. I appreciate SS has no control over crazy rules being adopted in these countries, but it sure as hell has a duty of care, which I'm hoping they will take as responsibly. We did, when we turned ourselves in after discovering positive results from personal testing which really should be the responsibility of the cruise line who unfortunately decided to cancel.

 

There are 80 (or probably less) joining in at the end of this section in a few days who have a huge section of their leg cancelled and disembark port and country changed. I suspect the third leg will have just the 36 on board who won't be able to get off anywhere with so many ports shut.

 

I did speak with someone who just escaped quarantine yesterday who is due to get off, who has categorical said, if they fail the PCR they will not be getting off. If the CD has those same thoughts, then someone at SS needs to take note.

 

When I first aired this option, I did think it was going to be an unpopular one. Now I'm not so sure.

 

I'm facing the very real possibility of failing the PCR today (after 3 days of passing them)..... All the doctors I know have suggested it's going to happen and the prospects are a little scary. If it happens today then moving on, o would have nowhere to hide as Valparaiso would be inside the mandatory 10 days on the ship.

 

 

 

 

[les37b]

8 hours ago, cece50 said:

I have to agree with your assessment. Following some of these stories on CC & FB and it’s all so crazy.  Testing all the time, all types of tests, PCR, antigen, now self testing. Who knows how accurate these tests are, who knows if people are actually very ill.  Add to that foreign ports with various restrictions.  Time for a timeout.  Feel bad for the couple who self reported since she no symptoms & he is negative. No good deed goes unpunished.  Hope they get home soon. 

 

Thank you.... And it's actually 2 couples who have done this. It certainly was appreciated and not unnoticed by the CD who I spoke with yesterday and having just quarantined herself for 2 weeks, she is certainly someone more than most who can understand the gravity. Having just suffered 10 days locked away, she also faces the prospect she won't be able to get off if she fails her PCR.

 

From what I understand, the worst anyone has suffered is a sniffy nose. Flu is far worse and you can imagine the outcry at this treatment for that.

 

Something needs to give.

[worldtraveller99]

Thinking of you les37b. Tell us what happens.

[les37b]

27 minutes ago, worldtraveller99 said:

Thinking of you les37b. Tell us what happens.

 

Thank you.... And believe me, I will be reporting.

 

It's got to the stage where the boogie man is no longer the virus, but the test and potentially devastating outcome that brings. 

 

When it's so bad someone needs to tell you because you have no idea, it's time to move on.

[cece50]

2 hours ago, les37b said:

 

Thank you.... And believe me, I will be reporting.

 

It's got to the stage where the boogie man is no longer the virus, but the test and potentially devastating outcome that brings. 

 

When it's so bad someone needs to tell you because you have no idea, it's time to move on.

You are so right.  My problem is with the government restrictions around the world.  At this time in the “pandemic” there is no reason IMHO why a citizen of any country in the world can’t get home for any reason. My country included.  This is not the plague.  

Edited January 17, 2022 by cece50

[worldtraveller99]

Well it is a plague - but mainly for those who already have a medical condition which may need hospital treatment. I think that is why eg Ecuador is frightened, as they don't have the vaccine (or do they? I'm not sure) and they don't have sufficient medical facilities. 

 

Maybe all travel this year should only be to countries with both of the above, until all countries are better vaccinated? And between those countries insist on full vaccination certificates and stop worrying about testing (or masks??) ?

[highplanesdrifters]

Sending you positive vibes for a negative result. 

[cece50]

18 minutes ago, worldtraveller99 said:

Well it is a plague - but mainly for those who already have a medical condition which may need hospital treatment. I think that is why eg Ecuador is frightened, as they don't have the vaccine (or do they? I'm not sure) and they don't have sufficient medical facilities. 

 

Maybe all travel this year should only be to countries with both of the above, until all countries are better vaccinated? And between those countries insist on full vaccination certificates and stop worrying about testing (or masks??) ?

That takes me back to governments…..if this is such a plague then all travel should be prohibited but it’s not.  We can travel but we can’t get back to our own homes because of some tests that may or may not be accurate.  We should not be having to quarantine in another country.  If you allow your citizens out then you sure as hell should let them back in, especially as we know more of the risks & issues & treatments for this virus.  

Edited January 17, 2022 by cece50

[brimary]

Les.....Thanks for the reports of your current experiences on board which have helped us come to our personal conclusions on future cruising after 22 successive years of luxury experiences on SS.The detail you have supplied of the current situation on board will have been extremely helpful to many SS cruisers like ourselves who were contemplating returning to SS at the end of this year.Thank you for your considerable assistance with your superb and detailed reports which have simplified the decision for ourselves and many other SS regulars. Sincerely hope conditions improve for you and you stay safe!

[Catlover54]

5 hours ago, worldtraveller99 said:

Well it is a plague - but mainly for those who already have a medical condition which may need hospital treatment. I think that is why eg Ecuador is frightened, as they don't have the vaccine (or do they? I'm not sure) and they don't have sufficient medical facilities. 

 

Maybe all travel this year should only be to countries with both of the above, until all countries are better vaccinated? And between those countries insist on full vaccination certificates and stop worrying about testing (or masks??) ?

 

Equador is over 70% "fully" vaxxed (which does not yet mean boosted, but though many if not most SS cruisers are boosted SS crew did not get boosted until last week).

It has, per the picture below, vax rates as high as Canada, UK, Iceland, etc.

As for "sufficient medical facilities" ?  You'd have to define what "sufficient" means, but if that means , enough to keep all 85-year-olds with many medical conditions and very limited life expectancy on ventilators for as long as American hospitals can keep them, then no, they do not have those facilities.  

 

 

Edited January 17, 2022 by Catlover54
Typo

[worldtraveller99]

Which of course goes off topic from cruising re do we all have to be kept alive for years and years, once our existence is no long fun?

 

But we who cruise are surely not those 85 years olds, we are the 85 year olds with the yellow underwater video cameras, who do still want to have fun! 

 

Maybe reciprocal funding is the answer, with ok a small tax on any travel to pay for this?

 

[Catlover54]

Worldtraveller99, my point was just that  I think the concern that third world countries in theory have is not so much that 85-year-old mostly boosted cruisers will be occupying their limited ICU beds right now (in 2020 yes, but now with Omicron). It is that a traveler (and not necessarily just  a cruiser) will bring in a very infectious variant that then infects their *local* aged and/or otherwise very vulnerable people even if they are supposedly "fully vaxxed"  (likely indirectly through the foreign travelers' contacts with family that is younger and up and about in the city and interacting with the travelers, e.g., guides, dock workers, hotel workers, etc).

Though the overwhelming number of cases at this point is locals (the remaining unvaxxed, plus many breakthrough cases in the vaxxed) infecting each other, political optics historically favor trying to blame "the others", and showing they are "doing something to keep the population safe."  

Almost every country (not just third world) has that approach right now, because balancing all risks and benefits of travel and/or travel limitations to the population overall (economic, non-Covid health, mental health, education,etc.) can sound harsh and heartless.

 

Even with a travel tax, (which itself could  discourage travel) it would take a LOT of time and money to build up hospitals to first world levels, especially in rural areas, and meanwhile they have to deal with what they have, which includes their politics.

 

 

 

[worldtraveller99]

You are right catlover54! But maybe countries where their own population would love to travel (possibly eg Australia) could opt in to a larger mutual travel circle? 

[Catlover54]

3 hours ago, worldtraveller99 said:

You are right catlover54! But maybe countries where their own population would love to travel (possibly eg Australia) could opt in to a larger mutual travel circle? 

In theory they could.  But most Australians (some protesters notwithstanding) seem to like things the way they are, "doing everything to keep us safe" which includes travel bans in/out , even within different parts of the country, and with only gentle loosening lately in some areas.  Otherwise people  would probably have spoken up and have a radically new government with a new approach by now.   Fear of the unknown is a powerful motivating force.  I understand that and cannot say I have never been afraid during Covid. 

 

Let's hope that Omicron burns out soon and is not replaced by a variant that is even more contagious -- and unlike Omicron, more deadly.  

 

Meanwhile, the main fear, on SS and other lines, is not death, but fear of getting quarantined, fear of separation from family, fear of losing a lot of money, and fear of  losing what remains of our precious life enjoyment days if stuck in one room  (especially if one is a senior) -- especially if that room might be less than the luxurious quarters SS provides!

 

 

[les37b]

Some rather sad news to report and my sympathies go out to everyone at the company and especially crew on the ship.... Though I'm not entirely shocked and think it's likely there will be more bad news later... As the waiter said to me just now... "Your wife will have lots of company in quarantine once the results are back today. I fear he will be correct.

 

The next cruise will be departing from guiyaquil with just a grand total of 69 guests on board.... And that includes the grand voyages of 36 not declined to 35..... So 34 getting on!!!! 

 

I dread to think the outcome of the PCRs, but if it goes how I'm dreading, there could be more in quarantine than guests on that cruise.

 

I would be shocked if leg 4 is more than 35.

 

Towel and throwing in springs to mind and I'm truly sad.

 

Edited January 17, 2022 by les37b

[Fort_Worth]

We're tired of worrying about everything. Have decided to cancel our fully-paid 22-nt May 30, 2022 Iceland/Norway b2b sailing on the Silver Moon. A big factor in our decision is that we have ZERO faith in Silversea to handle an unforeseen situation. The Ft Lauderdale disembarkation fiasco and les37b's ongoing situation are too disturbing to overlook.   

[les37b]

15 minutes ago, Catlover54 said:

In theory they could.  But most Australians (some protesters notwithstanding) seem to like things the way they are, "doing everything to keep us safe" which includes travel bans in/out , even within different parts of the country, and with only gentle loosening lately in some areas.  Otherwise people  would probably have spoken up and have a radically new government with a new approach by now.   Fear of the unknown is a powerful motivating force.  I understand that and cannot say I have never been afraid during Covid. 

 

Let's hope that Omicron burns out soon and is not replaced by a variant that is even more contagious -- and unlike Omicron, more deadly.  

 

Meanwhile, the main fear, on SS and other lines, is not death, but fear of getting quarantined, fear of separation from family, fear of losing a lot of money, and fear of  losing what remains of our precious life enjoyment days if stuck in one room  (especially if one is a senior) -- especially if that room might be less than the luxurious quarters SS provides!

 

 

 

Unfortunately that's spot on

[CJANDH]

2 hours ago, les37b said:

In theory they could.  But most Australians (some protesters notwithstanding) seem to like things the way they are, "doing everything to keep us safe" which includes travel bans in/out , even within different parts of the country, and with only gentle loosening lately in some areas.

Latest news from Australia indicates that they are suffering massive covid spread with the omicron variant despite their high vaccination rates. Seems that the vaccines are not helping stop the spread, just keeping people from getting very sick. The following link give the full story (if it works!!):

https://www.nbcnews.com/science/science-news/australia-decided-let-covid-rip-good-idea-rcna11509

 

[CJANDH]

3 hours ago, les37b said:

The next cruise will be departing from guiyaquil with just a grand total of 69 guests on board.... And that includes the grand voyages of 36 not declined to 35..... So 34 getting on!!!! 

 

I dread to think the outcome of the PCRs, but if it goes how I'm dreading, there could be more in quarantine than guests on that cruise.

 

I would be shocked if leg 4 is more than 35.

That must be a huge money loser for SS. Surely it is time to cancel the rest of the cruise and get these poor people home ASAP.