River Cruising Water Cooler

[ural guy]

8 hours ago, OneSixtyToOne said:

 

 "War is God's way of teaching Americans geography" - Ambrose Bierce

Absolutely.  No idea where the Horn of Africa was.  Uncle Sam sent me to Somalia.  Now can find it on a map/globe, whatever .  Ditto Haiti and Panama.

 

River Cruising: I can place European countries on a map, 94% success.  A much nicer way to learn Geography.

Edited November 18, 2022 by ural guy
Clarity?

[Canal archive]

Ural guy wow Somalia was that a secret squirrel thingy? That was a bit off the block. 

[ural guy]

No, i was with 10th Mountain Division, just route security, guarding food distribution sites, etc.

 

Silly me, I thought we were there due to famine.  Nope, civil war with food deprivation as a weapon.  
 

one of many odd moments, our interpreter lived in the same apartment complex as my brother in Arlington, Virginia.  State Department reviewed Somalias with student visas, and encouraged them to volunteer to help out.

 

The locals hated the interpreters, they knew the ‘terps were part of the privilege, former ruling class who had the means to leave the country when it suited them.

 

There but by the grace of God/Allah/Buddha go I.

[CPT Trips]

The million plus “disarmed enemy forces” kept by the US in the Rheinweisenlager didn’t have it nearly as well as those that spent part of the war in POW camps. That designation was a way to avoid the requirements of the Geneva Convention. 

[notamermaid]

1 minute ago, CPT Trips said:

The million plus “disarmed enemy forces” kept by the US in the Rheinweisenlager

Yes, that is not a good story - for want of a better expression - and not a part of the heroic deeds along the Rhine. I wonder if any guide could tell you much about it on a river cruise. I am relatively unfamiliar with this but it has been the subject of at least two German history books in more recent years. There is a lot to learn about the theatres of war, for a good overall picture a two to three hour tour of a site is just not enough in my opinion. But then, it is best not dealt with on a regular cruise but should be more the subject of an in-depth land trip I would say.

 

notamermaid

 

 

 

[Canal archive]

At the American cemetery we went to after Pont du Hoc, there was a very elderly American veteran in a wheelchair an absolutely delightful man who would not let go of my hand when he realised I was English. He just carried on explaining to a group of youngsters about the cemetery and the area and how it was when he was many years younger. A wonderful raconteur and I never did get his name but he made my day.

[CPT Trips]

@notamermaid The existence of these “camps” was, to me, a totally unknown part of history until we visited the Peace Museum on a diy side trip to Remagen during a port stop in Bonn. 
 

@Canal archive There is something special about visiting the American Cemetery with a veteran! Something that will soon be impossible. We had a man on  our cruise that we all referred to as a DDay veteran. He regularly corrected us saying he was not a DDay veteran as he didn’t hit the beach until DDay+2!

[CPT Trips]

The military did teach a lot of us geography. The  US had a significant military presence in the Horn of Africa (Eritrea/Ethiopia) at least since the end of WWII and until the late ‘70s. Many of us in the Signal Corps hoped not to be assigned to the ASA unit at Camp Kagnew. 

[Canal archive]

My dad always said he wasn’t a d day veteran as he was serving on board HMS Rodney and Rodney was involved. He always insisted it was the men on the beaches.

Edited November 19, 2022 by Canal archive

[Coral]

On November 8th - I just went to Normandy American Cemetery and Memorial and the Normandy sites and beaches. Very powerful.

 

We also went to a German Cemetery. 

[Canal archive]

The German cemetery’s are often tucked away near the larger cemeteries but worth visiting all the same it brings home the utter futility of all wars and conflict.

[Coral]

5 hours ago, Canal archive said:

The German cemetery’s are often tucked away near the larger cemeteries but worth visiting all the same it brings home the utter futility of all wars and conflict.

We went to: La Cambe German war cemetery

 

[notamermaid]

On 11/19/2022 at 4:01 AM, CPT Trips said:

The existence of these “camps” was, to me, a totally unknown part of history until we visited the Peace Museum on a diy side trip to Remagen during a port stop in Bonn. 

I think that Remagen bridge and the camps nearby are a perfect example of looking at one thing and blending out the other. No real criticism in this - it happens. Good to learn about it.

 

Thinking about it, I have only just realized that people from the US who I meet through work almost always ask me about WWII and my area's history, so several years ago I made sure I learnt the basics to be able to answer questions (apart from knowing general history about the war through school). But they so far have never asked me about WWI.

 

notamermaid

 

[CPT Trips]

28 minutes ago, notamermaid said:

looking at one thing and blending out the other.

I don’t understand what you mean by this. 
 

[sharkster77]

1 hour ago, notamermaid said:

 But they so far have never asked me about WWI.

 

notamermaid

 

Which circles us back to my comment about WWI being the "forgotten war" here in the US..........

[CPT Trips]

7 hours ago, notamermaid said:

But they so far have never asked me about WWI.

 

notamermaid

 

 

5 hours ago, sharkster77 said:

Which circles us back to my comment about WWI being the "forgotten war" here in the US..........

Was the US involved in any fighting in Germany during WWI? And I don’t believe we had troops in Germany on a long term basis after for any length of time after WWI.
The US took many casualties in Germany during WWII, has a military presence there to this day, and had occupation forces in all or part of Germany for almost 50 years. 
That could explain the difference in questions about the two wars. 

[notamermaid]

3 hours ago, CPT Trips said:

I don’t understand what you mean by this. 
 

I just meant that one story is repeated over and over and stays in memory and the other story is forgotten. With the camps around Remagen and with other POW camps (and many other aspects of war history)  and the bridge it is such a case. I am an example of that, it also works with my memory. The bridge story I have known for decades, probably since school, know the famous photos and so on. It makes perfect sense as the significance for the advancing of troops East is undoubted by historians. I only learnt about the camps about twenty years ago when I went to the Peace Museum for the first time.

 

Perhaps I should have chosen a better word. Not saying it is deliberately forgotten. Another aspect that has been overshadowed by Remagen bridge, again for the same significant reason, is Urmitz bridge and also the reconnaissance flights in the area, not sure if that is the word, where the troops took journalists after May 1945 in planes so they could take photos of the damage caused by bombers. I have only learnt this in recent years. With so many years that have elapsed now, more is in the public domain and I have been able to obtain such a photo myself via the internet.

 

6 hours ago, sharkster77 said:

Which circles us back to my comment about WWI being the "forgotten war" here in the US..........

Exactly.

 

17 minutes ago, CPT Trips said:

Was the US involved in any fighting in Germany during WWI?

Not for very long, less than a year overall in fighting in France, etc.. Within Germany, not sure, not within the modern borders of Germany. I do not remember what happened when in Belgium and Lorraine. The troops mainly supported the French and the British and as an independent army operated only a short time. Nevertheless, at the end of 1918 there were more than two million American soldiers in Europe. A huge number stayed in Germany (mostly the Rhine area) as an occupying force until 1923. The reduction in numbers there was gradual. The first left in 1919 and the last ones left the Rhineland specifically in 1923, fully handing over to the French occupying forces. I am not sure if there was a large military presence anywhere in Europe after that. Details I am sure are on history sites on the internet.

 

With WWII still closer to us in years and the stronger and prolonged presence of the US military it is natural that it should be much more present in people's minds outside of Europe. The airbase Ramstein, is sometimes in the television news here, in the regional ones called SWR.

 

notamermaid

 

 

 

[CPT Trips]

@notamermaid

Yes, now I understand your point. With the camps near Remagen, as with the “relocation” camps in the US, it seems there were active efforts to avoid wide spread public knowledge. To keep us in the dark as it were. 
 

Thank you for the post WWI history lesson. I learned somethings. 

[notamermaid]

13 minutes ago, CPT Trips said:

With the camps near Remagen, as with the “relocation” camps in the US, it seems there were active efforts to avoid wide spread public knowledge.

Perhaps you can teach me something in return: what are "relocation" camps? Does it have something to do with the POW from Europe? Until a few years ago I did not know that Germans had been brought to America during WWII. Apparently there is a restaurant with museum in a former camp in Illinois. One report that I have found says that there were 150 (!) camps in the US. Apparently the prisoners worked mainly in agriculture. Makes sense when your own men are over in Europe fighting.

 

notamermaid

 

[CPT Trips]

Relocation camps has nothing to do with POWs. It refers to the inland sites where people of Japanese decent (US citizens and non-citizens) were moved to from their homes in the west coast of the US. Their homes and businesses were also confiscated. 
https://www.archives.gov/education/lessons/japanese-relocation gives a good overview.

Years later (during the Reagan administration) reparations were paid ($20,000 to each survivor) and the US government formally apologized. 

 

 

[notamermaid]

20 hours ago, CPT Trips said:

It refers to the inland sites where people of Japanese decent (US citizens and non-citizens) were moved to from their homes in the west coast of the US.

Thank you. Never read about this.

 

Of course, here in Germany the authorities grew very suspicious of British foreign nationals - among others -  during WWI and WWII. But I have not looked into any stories, i.e. if people where detained or relocated.

 

notamermaid

 

[Host Jazzbeau]

I've been watching quietly, but it finally got too political even for a 'water cooler' thread.

[notamermaid]

32 minutes ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

I've been watching quietly

I imagine us all meeting up one day on a river cruise. You at the bar, us with drinks getting all engrossed in a current affairs conversation. Suddenly there is this quiet voice in the background from the man with towel in hand and mixing the cocktails saying "guys..."

 

On 11/18/2022 at 7:58 AM, ural guy said:

River Cruising: I can place European countries on a map, 94% success.  A much nicer way to learn Geography.

I had a teacher at school being very insistent on us learning all the European countries and their capitals. Unfortunately, a few countries got "rearranged and created" so by the time I went on my river cruise I had no idea about Slovakia and Bratislava being on the Danube. Kind of weird how much has changed in Europe in thirty years. Alsace as a region probably being even more complicated.

 

Fun fact: there is a hotel in France and Switzerland. In the Jura mountains, right on the official border, it runs through the hotel itself. It is in La Cure.

 

notamermaid

 

[Host Jazzbeau]

6 hours ago, notamermaid said:

I imagine us all meeting up one day on a river cruise. You at the bar, us with drinks getting all engrossed in a current affairs conversation. Suddenly there is this quiet voice in the background from the man with towel in hand and mixing the cocktails saying "guys..."

Actually, I'm afraid that if we met up on a river cruise – I would be in the thick of the 'not safe for CC' exchange!  [Think of the Warner Brothers cartoons with the sheep dog and the wolf, once they punch out of the time clock and head off together to the local pub...]  😉

 

6 hours ago, notamermaid said:

I had a teacher at school being very insistent on us learning all the European countries and their capitals. Unfortunately, a few countries got "rearranged and created" so by the time I went on my river cruise I had no idea about Slovakia and Bratislava being on the Danube. Kind of weird how much has changed in Europe in thirty years. Alsace as a region probably being even more complicated.

 

Fun fact: there is a hotel in France and Switzerland. In the Jura mountains, right on the official border, it runs through the hotel itself. It is in La Cure.

 

notamermaid

It was SO much easier learning the geography of the Balkans when most of it was "Yugoslavia" !!!  But I had a professor in college – a Montenegrin – who always put a map question on his exams, and to throw people off sometimes he would ask you to draw the Baltic [and sure enough, some students would draw the Balkans...]  

 

But the most interesting tour guide we had last month in 'the former Yugoslavia' spent some time on the bus explaining how nobody wants to be in 'the Balkans' any more.  Each country claims that 'the Balkans' begins at their southern border!  But she said that some wags claim that even Austria and especially Hungary have 'Balkan tendencies'...

[ural guy]

9 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

I've been watching quietly, but it finally got too political even for a 'water cooler' thread.

Jazz-  my visit to Mathausen yesterday may have put me in a pessimistic mood, and thinking more than is good for ones self.

 

Never imagined a comment on lack of education in the US about our own history would be ‘ too political’.