If vaccinations are required, how are the cruise lines going to check for compliance?

[Flatbush Flyer]

1 hour ago, happy cruzer said:

Many people were vaccinated by fire departments starting in Dec of last year and only given paper documents that contained the vaccine used and the date.  The person vaccinated filled in name and date of birth which was the only information ever provided at any time in the process.

Wherever the vaccine is administered (including a fire station), once the recipient identifies themself, a medical record is created (if it doesn’t already exist for that individual at that provider). That new record may have only that single procedure entry (which includes vaccine type and lot number as well as dosage, et al. specific info about the administered vaccine not entered on the card we receive).

Folks who’ve had their shots at “popups” like a fire station would be well advised to contact that provider, find that “record,” sign an ROI and have the info sent to your PCP (or healthcare system) for inclusion in that individual’s more comprehensive medical record.
As aforementioned, depending on the record system used, even a fire station’s parent or associated organization MAY also be able to electronically send that record to your regular healthcare provider.

FWIW, surely many folks may never need more proof than the card they were handed at vaccination. But, I’m talking about what MAY become necessary for international travel. 

[Gail & Marty sailing away]

Holland said the little piece of paper CDC

[Flatbush Flyer]

11 minutes ago, Gail & Marty sailing away said:

Holland said the little piece of paper CDC

Yet another reason to avoid HAL. You think they’d have learned to their Covid lesson from last year’s fiasco.

[Anita Latte]

8 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

individual’s more comprehensive medical record

 

Because you seem to be educated on the topic...I'm wondering what you would recommend to someone that has no comprehensive medical record? I can't remember the last time I saw a doctor, maybe when my son was born 20 years ago. I did do the whole ob/gyn doctor thing but I really haven't seen a doctor since then. I don't have a primary...I've never had a primary. I move a lot and just don't bother to find doctors everywhere I have lived for no reason... So for someone in my situation...what would you suggest I do with a vaccine record...whenever that happens. I've never even heard of all the medical apps people have mentioned here...

[Flatbush Flyer]

1 hour ago, Anita Latte said:

 

Because you seem to be educated on the topic...I'm wondering what you would recommend to someone that has no comprehensive medical record? I can't remember the last time I saw a doctor, maybe when my son was born 20 years ago. I did do the whole ob/gyn doctor thing but I really haven't seen a doctor since then. I don't have a primary...I've never had a primary. I move a lot and just don't bother to find doctors everywhere I have lived for no reason... So for someone in my situation...what would you suggest I do with a vaccine record...whenever that happens. I've never even heard of all the medical apps people have mentioned here...

Having a Primary Care Physician is very important regardless of how healthy any of us thinks we are. That said, a PCP can be an individual or even a medical practice.

There are all-in-one health plans like Kaiser here in the Western US - all services are connected and you’d have the comprehensive medical record (Kaiser does refer out for certain specialties/surgeries if warranted). 
It is relatively low cost and a favorite of many California public employees.

 

Because both DW & I have professional affiliations with the University of California, San Francisco (in addition to it being among the finest Medical Centers in the world) but still want maximum freedom in choosing specialists, we try to always make sure that any MD we choose to see (from PCP to surgeons) are affiliated with UCSF - minimally in having, at least, a Clinical Faculty appointment there and using its medical records system-  (the Epic product - MyChart).

Also important,  UCSF (across the board) accepts Medicare reimbursement rates and our Blue Cross Medicare supplement. So, we we basically have a health care “system” working for us in a unified way. Also, note that UCSF (and also most, if not all, other UC medical schools/centers) use the same medical records product though it would be up to you to sync them for your personal (all in one place) availability.

 

If you have a Kaiser or similar system near you, check it out. If you have a university medical center near you, check that out too. And, once you choose where you want your primary care (both of those should have general/family practices/clinics associated with them), gather every past medical record (document/Radiology images/lab reports you have (or can request) from past providers

and transfer them to your PCP for addition to your primary medical record. And, while you’re at it, make sure that you consider how accessible that record is to you electronically in making your final PCP choice.

[Anita Latte]

2 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

Having a Primary Care Physician is very important regardless of how healthy any of us thinks we are. That said, a PCP can be an individual or even a medical practice.

There are all-in-one health plans like Kaiser here in the Western US - all services are connected and you’d have the comprehensive medical record (Kaiser does refer out for certain specialties/surgeries if warranted). 
It is relatively low cost and a favorite of many California public employees.

 

Because both DW & I have professional affiliations with the University of California, San Francisco (in addition to it being among the finest Medical Centers in the world) but still want maximum freedom in choosing specialists, we try to always make sure that any MD we choose to see (from PCP to surgeons) are affiliated with UCSF - minimally in having, at least, a Clinical Faculty appointment there and using its medical records system-  (the Epic product - MyChart).

Also important,  UCSF (across the board) accepts Medicare reimbursement rates and our Blue Cross Medicare supplement. So, we we basically have a health care “system” working for us in a unified way. Also, note that UCSF (and also most, if not all, other UC medical schools/centers) use the same medical records product though it would be up to you to sync them for your personal (all in one place) availability.

 

If you have a Kaiser or similar system near you, check it out. If you have a university medical center near you, check that out too. And, once you choose where you want your primary care (both of those should have general/family practices/clinics associated with them), gather every past medical record (document/Radiology images/lab reports you have (or can request) from past providers

and transfer them to your PCP for addition to your primary medical record. And, while you’re at it, make sure that you consider how accessible that record is to you electronically in making your final PCP choice.

 

I thank you for your detailed reply. Very informative view of medical care. I would never have thought to approach such a thing in such a fashion. For the handful of doctors I’ve required and accepted care from, it has all been personal referrals from trusted relationships. I’d never have thought of the hospitals or corporate care aspect in seeking a medical intervention. I don’t have any lab work or anything to collect...oh, I did see an orthopedic doctor for a knee injury about 6-8 years ago, but I have the mri cd myself. I’ll be looking for more info as I’m not currently in the market for a pcp, nor interested in pursuing that relationship at this time, but again, thx for your time.

[Flatbush Flyer]

17 minutes ago, Anita Latte said:

...For the handful of doctors I’ve required and accepted care from, it has all been personal referrals from trusted relationships. I’d never have thought of the hospitals or corporate care aspect in seeking a medical intervention....

Thanks for the thanks.

 

Do know, however, that I am a bit concerned when I learn that someone may only see a doctor when care is “required” or a medical “intervention” is necessary.

There is much scientific and practical evidence supporting preventative medicine that includes regular checkups with physical examination and appropriate lab work.

 

I do hope that you will carefully consider establishing a relationship with a PCP sooner than later. Remember too that many employers providing health benefits may offer a menu of health insurance providers who, in turn, can provide a roster of their “in network” PCPs. 

[Anita Latte]

7 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

There is much scientific and practical evidence supporting preventative medicine

 

I appreciate your concern. I am aware that my viewpoint is uncommon. I do believe that Western medicine is very good at treatment of acute conditions, but I'm not a fan of the education provided to most of our doctors when it comes to nutrition, physical fitness, etc. Most doctors, in my experience, are where you go if you want "medicine" because they are in the "practice" of prescribing medicine should they feel the need based on the results of their tests. But you see, I'm not someone that lightly takes medicine, I rarely take OTC medicine...I'm extremely cautious when it comes to ingesting any isolates (I am a fanatic label reader...which isn't as easy as you would think...our labels can be very tricksie). So it makes no sense for me to pay someone else to "practice medicine" on me when I do not really take medicine.

 

You make it sound like I don't take care of myself, but I do. I am very aware of my health. I do happen to know my general blood work. I got that last year from a local lab which does direct care. I am very aware of my body and when there are changes. I regularly practice personal health care with my food intake and lifestyle. I won't claim to be in the best of health right now...moving is rough business...it's very hard to establish new routines...and I've made 2 interstate moves and 2 instate moves in the last 4 years...but the last was a home purchase for the first time in over 10 years so I think we might be here for a while...my lifetime record is about 4 years under one roof, but this one might finally be a record breaker. 

 

Anyway...my point in responding is to clarify my position. While I don't seek out the "preventative medicine" that you must do, I do exercise "personal health and wellness care" which I consider to be a holistic practice where I do get help medical help when/as needed but otherwise look to other educations for nutrition and physical fitness advice.

[happy cruzer]

14 hours ago, Gail & Marty sailing away said:

Holland said the little piece of paper CDC

Thanks.  Also thanks to Flatbush for all the info shared.

 

Did reach out to one fire dept which stated no plans to provide electronic records of vaccination.  So the approx. 100k they vaccinated will only have the the little piece of paper.

[snichols23]

On 5/9/2021 at 8:06 AM, phoneman69 said:

Is the Health Dept in every state going to have a database of every jab given. I got my shot's at the Hospital i work at. DW got her's threw the local CVS and my son went threw the state vaccine site. So many places giving shots how is it all stored ? I am slightly concerned about fake vaccine cards.

Data is maintained at the state level

[Flatbush Flyer]

2 hours ago, Anita Latte said:

 

I appreciate your concern. I am aware that my viewpoint is uncommon. I do believe that Western medicine is very good at treatment of acute conditions, but I'm not a fan of the education provided to most of our doctors when it comes to nutrition, physical fitness, etc. Most doctors, in my experience, are where you go if you want "medicine" because they are in the "practice" of prescribing medicine should they feel the need based on the results of their tests. But you see, I'm not someone that lightly takes medicine, I rarely take OTC medicine...I'm extremely cautious when it comes to ingesting any isolates (I am a fanatic label reader...which isn't as easy as you would think...our labels can be very tricksie). So it makes no sense for me to pay someone else to "practice medicine" on me when I do not really take medicine.

 

You make it sound like I don't take care of myself, but I do. I am very aware of my health. I do happen to know my general blood work. I got that last year from a local lab which does direct care. I am very aware of my body and when there are changes. I regularly practice personal health care with my food intake and lifestyle. I won't claim to be in the best of health right now...moving is rough business...it's very hard to establish new routines...and I've made 2 interstate moves and 2 instate moves in the last 4 years...but the last was a home purchase for the first time in over 10 years so I think we might be here for a while...my lifetime record is about 4 years under one roof, but this one might finally be a record breaker. 

 

Anyway...my point in responding is to clarify my position. While I don't seek out the "preventative medicine" that you must do, I do exercise "personal health and wellness care" which I consider to be a holistic practice where I do get help medical help when/as needed but otherwise look to other educations for nutrition and physical fitness advice.

You are certainly not alone in your beliefs. However, your apparent overgeneralization that “doctors of medicine” are all “pill-pushers” is very very wrong. Perhaps you haven’t looked in the right places. Got a few minutes? Check this out:  https://osher.ucsf.edu

And that’s just one example of true holistic medicine.

 

I’m glad you’ve gotten “blood work.” Hopefully you’ll do that annually. And, things like urine analysis add a dimension to your vigilance as does colonoscopy as you age. These are all examples of essential “preventative medicine.” And none of them (outside of colonoscopy prep) involve prescription or even OTC meds.

 

The final point I will make is that: assuming you are far short of being a senior citizen, having a PCP (and the aforementioned preventative diagnostics) before age starts to take its toll will save you a lot of time and energy later in dealing with the range of initially asymptomatic afflictions (e.g., cancer) that often kill people regardless of their devotion to “heathy” well-being. 

No need to respond since I expect you will pass on my recommendations.

[Flatbush Flyer]

1 hour ago, happy cruzer said:

Thanks.  Also thanks to Flatbush for all the info shared.

 

Did reach out to one fire dept which stated no plans to provide electronic records of vaccination.  So the approx. 100k they vaccinated will only have the the little piece of paper.

Don’t know where you live. But, that Fire Department has to have recorded who got what and that record resides somewhere. I suggest that you contact your County/State Health Department or whoever else provided those Fire Stations with the doses since the entity distributing 100k (x2 shots) vaccines to injection sites just doesn’t hand them over and “hope for the best.”

[Anita Latte]

1 hour ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

Check this out:  https://osher.ucsf.edu

And that’s just one example of true holistic medicine.

 

You are fortunate to live near such a resource...I haven't lived in the Bay Area in over 30 years (I was born and raised there for 18+ years)...nothing even remotely close to that has been available in most places I've lived. No idea if it is available where I currently live. But seeing that site gives me some terminology for researching in my area. Thank you.

 

I find our discuss interesting...and it's been so civil...thank you for that. We all approach our impending deaths with unique viewpoints. Do you have a death plan? Do you have a vision for the end of your life and how you plan to exist this existence? I do...and my life plan is in keeping with my death plan. I'm not someone that lives in denial about health problems...I just have a premade decision on how I will approach those problems if I encounter them. Nice talking with you.

[Flatbush Flyer]

1 minute ago, Anita Latte said:

 

You are fortunate to live near such a resource...I haven't lived in the Bay Area in over 30 years (I was born and raised there for 18+ years)...nothing even remotely close to that has been available in most places I've lived. No idea if it is available where I currently live. But seeing that site gives me some terminology for researching in my area. Thank you.

 

I find our discuss interesting...and it's been so civil...thank you for that. We all approach our impending deaths with unique viewpoints. Do you have a death plan? Do you have a vision for the end of your life and how you plan to exist this existence? I do...and my life plan is in keeping with my death plan. I'm not someone that lives in denial about health problems...I just have a premade decision on how I will approach those problems if I encounter them. Nice talking with you.

I have no fear of death. It’s the sudden stop at the end that concerns me. 😎

[Anita Latte]

7 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

I have no fear of death. It’s the sudden stop at the end that concerns me. 😎

 

It's just the beginning...

[wowzz]

My NHS app now shows details of both my injections, plus a QR code if required. The code can be downloaded so available if no internet access.

[Flatbush Flyer]

4 hours ago, wowzz said:

My NHS app now shows details of both my injections, plus a QR code if required. The code can be downloaded so available if no internet access.

Terrific!

[broberts]

Unless a government requires proof of vaccination, why bother with anything more complicated than a completed and signed health questionnaire?

 

If a government is going to require proof, it will detail what is acceptable. 

[Flatbush Flyer]

22 minutes ago, broberts said:

Unless a government requires proof of vaccination, why bother with anything more complicated than a completed and signed health questionnaire?

 

If a government is going to require proof, it will detail what is acceptable. 

The future of an entire industry depends on how everything Covid is addressed by all involved. 
A cruise industry leader like FDR (particularly as regards his “baby” Oceania) is smart to be cautious to the point of extreme restrictions as deemed necessary.

Edited May 18, 2021 by Flatbush Flyer

[wowzz]

39 minutes ago, broberts said:

Unless a government requires proof of vaccination, why bother with anything more complicated than a completed and signed health questionnaire?

Because in the UK, you won't  get on a criuse ship without official confirmation that you have received your two CV19 vaccinations 

[navybankerteacher]

On 5/13/2021 at 11:48 AM, Anita Latte said:

 

It's just the beginning...

But not of getting trained and competent medical advice/treatment.

[Anita Latte]

16 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

But not of getting trained and competent medical advice/treatment.

 

After death?

[Bevv]

On 5/10/2021 at 7:32 PM, rkacruiser said:

 

I have a bit of concern about this as well.  My two doses of the Pfizer vaccine were taken at CVS.  Checking "My Chart" for me this afternoon, there is no record there that I am fully vaccinated.  My PCP knows that I am.  He is part of the same medical network that produces "My Chart".  The data is not recorded.

 

The use of electronic medical records by those who care for me have not encouraged me to think that this is a major advance to the benefit of the patient.   I can cite other examples unrelated to the Covid vaccine doses.  

When I was at my last medical appointment I asked them to put the information in My Chart and they did. They took my word for the fact I got the shots and when I got them.  My husband's doctor's nurse asked him to send in a photocopy of the CDC card before they would add his information.

[atexsix]

My information is in MyChart as well.  I don't even know how it got there, as I was vaccinated at a pharmacy not associated with my hospital, but I did give provider information, perhaps it was forwarded to them.

 

With that being said, unless the federal government gets involved with nationalized mandates, there will be no way confirmations of vaccination cards can be accomplished fairly and without error.  The logistics of this is overwhelming, whose going to have the time and the resources to handle misspelled names, omissions, and other data corrections for millions of people?  It would take an agency the size of the IRS to administer such a program. 

 

The Alaska season will be under way in just 60 days, the cards are the only thing they are going to have time for at this juncture.

[Flatbush Flyer]

1 hour ago, atexsix said:

My information is in MyChart as well.  I don't even know how it got there, as I was vaccinated at a pharmacy not associated with my hospital, but I did give provider information, perhaps it was forwarded to them.

 

With that being said, unless the federal government gets involved with nationalized mandates, there will be no way confirmations of vaccination cards can be accomplished fairly and without error.  The logistics of this is overwhelming, whose going to have the time and the resources to handle misspelled names, omissions, and other data corrections for millions of people?  It would take an agency the size of the IRS to administer such a program. 

 

The Alaska season will be under way in just 60 days, the cards are the only thing they are going to have time for at this juncture.

FWIW: MD Offices that are accepting patients’ claims of vaccination from another source solely on the patient’s word or even display of the card received at vaccination may be doing a disservice to those patients since the card does not have all the information related to the vaccine (which will be entered in the existing or newly created medical record at the facility providing the vaccine.
Like any medical record, the cleanest transfer of history/procedures/inoculations is “provider to provider” communication which is most easily/accurately accomplished by patient signing a ROI and vaccine provider sending the info to the intended recipient. Of course, MyChart and syncable similar systems make this so easy.