CDC-update May 5th

[cscurlock]

7 minutes ago, tkportersat said:

Yep, I would rather fill up an inflatable pool in my backyard with a tub of beer nearby then cruise under these conditions. 

The point I don't understand is if the cruise line requires 100% vaccinations for crew and passengers.  What is the point of the mask at that point?  I mean I can understand maybe when you go to port because countries might have different rules. But the ship should be about as immune as you can get to seriously getting sick.  If they do the simulated then yeah I can see you needing masks 100% of the time.  You just can't take a chance on someone getting seriously ill from an outbreak and having to turn the ship around with unvaccinated people.

[harkinmr]

12 minutes ago, Radiioman46 said:

Not true. NCL just stated that they will not require passengers to take ship sponsored excursions to get off the ship. Plus, on those cruises ppl don't have to stay masked while sitting at their dinner tables in the MDR, plus they don't use the grab n go at the buffets. Their buffets are set up where the hosts hands the food to the passengers behind a glass screen. I'm assuming (may be wrong) that what they mean be grab n go is what we are seeing here in hotel suites.  

Is NCL sailing out of the UK, Italy or Greece?  If so then shore visits are regulated by the local governments and free roaming is prohibited. Celebrity is sailing out of St. Martin and no free roaming is allowed on those cruises either. The CDC has not mandated grab n’ go food service. It is just an option.  Buffets can still be used with no self-service just as is being done on sailings elsewhere. 

Edited May 6, 2021 by harkinmr

[BoozinCroozin]

2 minutes ago, cscurlock said:

The point I don't understand is if the cruise line requires 100% vaccinations for crew and passengers.  What is the point of the mask at that point? 

Logic and facts do not work with an agenda. Nothing else matters other than that agenda and control. Its happened before, just read a little bit about history.

[Radiioman46]

1 minute ago, cscurlock said:

The point I don't understand is if the cruise line requires 100% vaccinations for crew and passengers.  What is the point of the mask at that point?  I mean I can understand maybe when you go to port because countries might have different rules. But the ship should be about as immune as you can get to seriously getting sick.  If they do the simulated then yeah I can see you needing masks 100% of the time.  You just can't take a chance on someone getting seriously ill from an outbreak and having to turn the ship around with unvaccinated people.

You can't assume that on the simulated cruises that everyone is not vaccinated. I would be willing to bet that the majority of passengers will be vaccinated whether they are required or not. Plus, you can't make blank statements that anyone who is not vaccinated is likely to spread the virus. That's pure poppycock, hate and fear mongering. 

[kleibo]

14 minutes ago, iheartmarshall said:

These guidelines are no surprise to me, but I also work in higher education and we've been in a mostly remote/limited on-campus state since March 2020.  We do plan to resume in-person classes this fall but things will be different for a while and it's the same with cruising.  We're still in the middle of a pandemic even though some are "over it" -- but it's far from over.  Get vaccinated, wear a mask, and help us reach the end sooner. 

 

Eventually, we know that cruising will most likely return to how it was.  It may take a couple of years for everything to fall back in place but it will happen.  We've all had to adapt and I understand that all these protocols are in place to protect the public's safety and I'm okay with that.  Things may not be ideal but it's the trade-off to progress back to "normal."  In the meantime, if you're not comfortable cruising with these restrictions then it's simple -- don't cruise. 

 

I think what all cruisers want is fairness.  The required guidelines are excessive especially if they are going to have 95/98 vaccinated cruisers/workers.  Absolutely ridiculous.

 

I am vaccinated, I do wear a mask and I will take my money elsewhere and I think many others will too unless some of the requirements are loosened.

[Radiioman46]

6 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

Is NCL sailing out of the UK, Italy or Greece?  If so then shore visits are regulated by the local governments and free roaming is prohibited. Celebrity is sailing out of St. Martin and no free roaming is allowed on those cruises either. The CDC has not mandated grab n’ go food service. It is just an option.  Buffets can still be used with no self-service just as is being done on sailings elsewhere. 

I was responding to a post that claimed those cruises were following the same restrictions as in this latest CSO update. 

 

I might add that those cruises have had no problems, meaning, that all these CDC restrictions are not really called for. Which brings up the question: What is the agenda driving the CDC? It's obviously more than just protecting the passengers. 

Edited May 6, 2021 by Radiioman46

[bdever]

13 minutes ago, ninjacat123 said:

At this time, all persons, including port personnel, crew, and passengers (including those that are fully vaccinated) are advised that CDC’s Mask Order remains in effect and requires the wearing of masks on conveyances entering, traveling within or leaving the United States, and in U.S. transportation hubs (see Maritime-specific Frequently Asked Questions).

 

Does this constitute "requirred" or "recommended" ?  Thx!

 

13 minutes ago, ninjacat123 said:

At this time, all persons, including port personnel, crew, and passengers (including those that are fully vaccinated) are advised that CDC’s Mask Order remains in effect and requires the wearing of masks on conveyances entering, traveling within or leaving the United States, and in U.S. transportation hubs (see Maritime-specific Frequently Asked Questions).

 

Does this constitute "requirred" or "recommended" ?  Thx!

“

Requirements

To reduce the spread of SARS-CoV-2, cruise ship operators must:

• Provide passengers and crew with information on how to properly wear, take off, and clean cloth masks.
• Remind passengers and crew not to touch their masks when wearing them.
• Position posters educating passengers on how to properly wear masks in high traffic areas throughout the ship
• Ensure bathers wear masks while congregating outside of recreational water facilities (RWFs) and while seated on the pool deck area. Masks do not need to be worn in the water, e.g., in RWFs or while swimming in the ocean. A wet cloth mask can make it difficult to breathe and likely will not work correctly. This means it is particularly important for bathers to maintain social distancing of at least 6 feet (2 meters) when in the water with others who are not traveling companions or part of the same family.”

[cscurlock]

3 minutes ago, BoozinCroozin said:

Logic and facts do not work with an agenda. Nothing else matters other than that agenda and control. Its happened before, just read a little bit about history.

Maybe but that might change.  The CDC is depending on the data that might change the rule before they sail in July.   I mean they have like 5 months of data and multiple variants so its possible they might change the rules once the bean counters are happy.  We will see.  

Edited May 6, 2021 by cscurlock

[kleibo]

Ensure bathers wear masks while congregating outside of recreational water facilities (RWFs) and while seated on the pool deck area.

 

Honestly?  WHAT?

[TNcruising02]

29 minutes ago, tkportersat said:

I'm still waiting to see by my final payment in September but if this is the way it is going to be than I will definitely be canceling my Thanksgiving Cruise.  I've taken 3 vacations since Covid and they were great so I don't need this nonsense in my life. 

I've taken three vacations too.  One before our vaccinations, one after dose one, and one after dose two (we took a plane for the first time in over a year).  All three vacations were in Florida and the only place we wore a mask was in Walmart.  Other than that, we ate at restaurants and enjoyed our lives.  Life is too short to wear a mask sunbathing and while eating dinner.

[cruisingguy007]

45 minutes ago, BoozinCroozin said:

It is no coincidence on the timing of the CDC. The change in attitude came within hours of the actual court date in FL. Once the court date was set to May 12th, the CDC took a massive jump back and issued their updated change. They had anticipated it not to head to court so quickly and with a judge that is more aligned with the direction FL and TX are going than the direction of the CDC. They also know if they do lose the case, they won't get a hearing at the FL Supreme Court until after the CSO date of October 31. 

 

I know there are a lot of if's and either side can win. If FL/TX/AK lose the case, then nothing really changes and everything stays as it is. However, if the CDC loses, there will be far reaching impacts, investigations, and committees. Everything they have done within the CDC and personal life will be investigated. The biggest issue they have is their own orders/mandates are not even being followed by the highest levels of government. We can't talk politics here, but you can go look at it yourself online. It is not going to bode well with someone saying "you must do this!" with a picture of our "leaders" doing the exact opposite.

 

They actually just got smacked down on their eviction moratorium in federal court. Overreach rejected and put back in place. I'm not counting out the FL/TX case. The CDC has never exercised this kind of broad self granted power. They charged ahead full steam. Sometimes it's better to ask for forgiveness than it is permission. They've obviously learned something from corporate America lol.  

[iheartmarshall]

2 minutes ago, kleibo said:

 

I think what all cruisers want is fairness.  The required guidelines are excessive especially if they are going to have 95/98 vaccinated cruisers/workers.  Absolutely ridiculous.

 

I am vaccinated, I do wear a mask and I will take my money elsewhere and I think many others will too unless some of the requirements are loosened.

 

I totally understand that, and we have opted for more remote land vacations in lieu of cruising for the time being.  Our next cruise isn't even until Thanksgiving 2022.  

 

But what gets me is everyone complaining about how much they hate these guidelines when in reality, there's nothing they or Carnival can do about them.  People complained that they weren't allowed to sail and now that the restart is in sight, they're complaining about the restrictions.  The restrictions might seem excessive but they're necessary and shouldn't be of any surprise.  We're still in a pandemic. 

[Radiioman46]

4 minutes ago, cscurlock said:

Maybe but that might change.  The CDC is depending on the data that might change the rule before they sail in July.   I mean they have like 5 months of data and multiple variants so its possible they might change the rules once the bean counters are happy.  We will see.  

Not on cruises. Cruises are shut down in the US, so how can they invent 5 months of data for cruising? 

In other parts of the world, where more than 500,000 passengers have cruised, the data suggests that this new guideline just released is totally overboard. 

[ninjacat123]

2 minutes ago, iheartmarshall said:

 

I totally understand that, and we have opted for more remote land vacations in lieu of cruising for the time being.  Our next cruise isn't even until Thanksgiving 2022.  

 

But what gets me is everyone complaining about how much they hate these guidelines when in reality, there's nothing they or Carnival can do about them.  People complained that they weren't allowed to sail and now that the restart is in sight, they're complaining about the restrictions.  The restrictions might seem excessive but they're necessary and shouldn't be of any surprise.  We're still in a pandemic. 

I appreciate your thoughts.  Living in a pandemic on land or sea is restrictive.  It does seem odd that restaurants on land are allowed to have diners without masks at a table, regardless of whether they are eating/drinking or not and cruisers have to keep their masks on in between bite or sips.

[topaz123]

10 minutes ago, kleibo said:

Ensure bathers wear masks while congregating outside of recreational water facilities (RWFs) and while seated on the pool deck area.

 

Honestly?  WHAT?

Sometimes, it seems crazy people have taken over.......oh my.

[tkportersat]

6 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

I've taken three vacations too.  One before our vaccinations, one after dose one, and one after dose two (we took a plane for the first time in over a year).  All three vacations were in Florida and the only place we wore a mask was in Walmart.  Other than that, we ate at restaurants and enjoyed our lives.  Life is too short to wear a mask sunbathing and while eating dinner.

Our first in June was Vegas/Lake Powell/various parts of Utah.  We weren't even wearing masks in Vegas....I will say there was hardly anyone there.  In November it was Colorado Springs area, barely any mask wearing except Cave of the Winds.  March it was Western Colorado Delta/Montrose/Ouray/Durango.  All very enjoyable, minimal mask wearing.  Although at the top of Pike's Peak I wanted to wear a mask, lol.  Brrrrrr.   In the heat?  nope...

[florida eagle]

29 minutes ago, BoozinCroozin said:

If you have food or drink at your table, you ARE actively eating or drinking. Are the CDC Security going to sit next to everyone and watch them pull the mask down, take a drink and immediately pull it up? No!

 

This is why it is recommended by realists to always have water with you. You are actively drinking it and it cannot be argued either way. Restaurants here had water at the table upon seating. You are immediately consuming and thus no mask.

We all know there is fine print on any cruise contract we sign.  The captain on the ship rules. But he is not Capt. Bligh. We are disappointed at times on stops not made. However, in a closed situation as a ship we are all used to a lot of freedom on them. Depending on the type of cruisers there may not be as much as a fuss as with other cruisers with less freedom on a ship. Would a semi military type of cruise be acceptable to cruisers? Where limitations are part and parcel of everything we do. And inside the cabin may be the most freedom? With a TV that has ten stations all telling us about the limitations of what we can do and selling us gold and silver chains on the promenade during the hours they let us there.

[kirtihk]

16 hours ago, Djptcp said:

Wearing a mask onboard throughout the cruise only makes sense as there will probably be unvaccinated passengers on board. DH and I are fully vaccinated since January, but we still wear masks. Efficacy rate of 95% still means there is a 5%, albeit small, chance of contracting Covid. I would think unvaccinated passengers would want to wear masks to help protect themselves from other unvaccinated passengers. Get vaccinated!

What's a point for anyone on the ship to do it?  It's a vacation after all, not going around doing chores.  5-10 min a day or a few hours in 1 day (like on the airplane) might be somehow reasonable or acceptable; however doing that for hours every day on a holiday escape???  and paying for it, too???

[kleibo]

To me, it's not about politics at all, but about the science and data.  When this first started we had no idea what we were dealing with, and had no treatments.  Now we know who are the most vulnerable and have many treatments available and now a vaccine.  If a cruise goes out with 95/98 vaccinated, these requirements are excessive and no one is changing my opinion on that.

[harkinmr]

17 minutes ago, Radiioman46 said:

I was responding to a post that claimed those cruises were following the same restrictions as in this latest CSO update. 

 

I might add that those cruises have had no problems, meaning, that all these CDC restrictions are not really called for. Which brings up the question: What is the agenda driving the CDC? It's obviously more than just protecting the passengers. 

I know that’s what you were responding to. And you used NCL as an example of a line not requiring ship excursions.  As I said, if they sail out of the UK, Italy, Greece or Israel, the non-ship excursions are not allowed. Other places (the Caribbean) apparently they are. 
 

And, again, your commentary is wrong. It is BECAUSE of similar protocols that other cruises have been successful.  Therefore they ARE called for. 
 

Not going to even comment on the conspiracy “hidden agenda” nonsense. 

Edited May 6, 2021 by harkinmr

[jean87510]

15 minutes ago, kleibo said:

 

I think what all cruisers want is fairness.  The required guidelines are excessive especially if they are going to have 95/98 vaccinated cruisers/workers.  Absolutely ridiculous.

 

I am vaccinated, I do wear a mask and I will take my money elsewhere and I think many others will too unless some of the requirements are loosened.

Absolutely agree with you.  I'm getting ready to fly to flagstaff now and will be spending a fun weekend at sedona and grand canyon hiking without masks and loving it.  After my vacations, I will be ------- if I pay money for this BS.  I have 2 b2b in September but unless this changes for vaccinated folks, Im cancelling.  Guys burgers and melting choc cake are not that good.

[kleibo]

I am heading to Florida next week and Virginia Beach in June.  I would prefer to cruise, but I'm not wearing a mask on the pool deck - that is just ridiculous.

[cruisingguy007]

31 minutes ago, iheartmarshall said:

These guidelines are no surprise to me, but I also work in higher education and we've been in a mostly remote/limited on-campus state since March 2020.  We do plan to resume in-person classes this fall but things will be different for a while and it's the same with cruising.  We're still in the middle of a pandemic even though some are "over it" -- but it's far from over.  Get vaccinated, wear a mask, and help us reach the end sooner. 

 

Eventually, we know that cruising will most likely return to how it was.  It may take a couple of years for everything to fall back in place but it will happen.  We've all had to adapt and I understand that all these protocols are in place to protect the public's safety and I'm okay with that.  Things may not be ideal but it's the trade-off to progress back to "normal."  In the meantime, if you're not comfortable cruising with these restrictions then it's simple -- don't cruise. 

 

So the vaccines don't work is what you're saying? The vaccines were supposed to free us from all the nonsense. Once vaccines are available for all kids, I expect schools/life to resume like normal. Vaccines were intended to lower the risk, never eliminate it. People have become waaaaaay to comfortable with all these "temporary" restrictions and have basically accepted them as the new standard. Many of us have not. That's not what we were sold on. It was a halt to freedoms and upending the lives of everyone to save the olds and very sick. A reverse Titanic if you will, not women and children first, old and infirmed first! That has been done, vaccines are out and available, and will soon be available to older kids and soon after, all kids. We don't close everything down for the flu and we are quickly reaching comparative numbers (hospitalizations/deaths) and will probably drop below those rates once vaccines are available to everyone. At some point this becomes simply a charade and power grab/struggle.    

[topaz123]

I've worked for a few years in a Government position, it's amazing how just the simplest idea can mean 35 hours of meetings, re-meetings, paper work, etc.  In order to get a new pen, I had to fill out 3 forms. I can see a wall of CDC bureaucrats playing the "what if.." game for weeks upon weeks. What if a fly gets onboard at Miami, and lands on our latte in Jamaica what is the  CDC plan for this ? It's ENDLESS>>!!!!

[jean87510]

12 minutes ago, iheartmarshall said:

 

I totally understand that, and we have opted for more remote land vacations in lieu of cruising for the time being.  Our next cruise isn't even until Thanksgiving 2022.  

 

But what gets me is everyone complaining about how much they hate these guidelines when in reality, there's nothing they or Carnival can do about them.  People complained that they weren't allowed to sail and now that the restart is in sight, they're complaining about the restrictions.  The restrictions might seem excessive but they're necessary and shouldn't be of any surprise.  We're still in a pandemic. 

The pandemic is nowhere near what it was a year ago let alone back in November.  Its because of herd immunity and vaccines.