Updated Mask Guidance from CDC

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

9 minutes ago, d12j28 said:

...

 

What exactly is the new information the CDC has that people (vaccinated) don't have to wear masks now vs say last month. 

 

Unfortunately, it probably had to go through committees and review boards - with input from public opinion as well. It can be difficult to sift out the science/logic from the place we all find ourselves in.

[TNcruising02]

1 minute ago, Joebucks said:

 

I always loved this explanation. Why did the flu go away? Because everyone wore masks, washed hands, and social distanced!

 

Why did COVID surge? Because no one wore masks, washed hands, and social distanced.

Great post!

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

2 minutes ago, Joebucks said:

 

I always loved this explanation. Why did the flu go away? Because everyone wore masks, washed hands, and social distanced!

 

Why did COVID surge? Because no one wore masks, washed hands, and social distanced.

 

As I understand it, COVID was much more easily spread from person to person - and nobody had prior exposure/immunity (to much of any degree) to it.

 

Tom

[bgrmini]

1 hour ago, cscurlock said:

Don't feed the kool aid drinkers.  Waste of time.  I am hoping that they split the cruises into vaccinated and non vaccinated and then these people can go on whatever applies to them.  Then everyone can be happy.  Once an outbreak occurs and the whole ship gets quarantined we will see how they feel.

It was Flavoraid, not Koolaid. The big Flavoraid lobby has really pushed The Big Koolaid Lie. 😅

 

So sad how many people are out there with the 'its my personal decision' attitude yet. No, public health isn't a personal decision. We'd have been cruising in some limited capacity last summer, already, if it weren't for that attitude. Like MSC and Tui were in Europe.

[TooManyWakeUpsTilWeSail]

24 minutes ago, Joebucks said:

 

I always loved this explanation. Why did the flu go away? Because everyone wore masks, washed hands, and social distanced!

 

Why did COVID surge? Because no one wore masks, washed hands, and social distanced.

I’m not an expert (many here proclaim to be) but I would guess both influenza and covid cases/deaths are lower than THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN OTHERWISE due to safety precautions.  Others will say focus on the economic effects (true), social effects like nursing home patients dying alone (also true) and health effects like missed surgeries (also true). Does anyone have the 100% correct answer?  That’s a trick question since no one is 100% correct in saving the most lives while keeping quality of life optimized.  
 

In the end I think masks, distancing helped for a while to reduce deaths/cases.  Immunizations now help MORE for those willing to believe the World is round and the bogeyman isn’t being injected into their arm (or sleeve-less-wanna-be arm).

 

 

 

Edited May 14, 2021 by TooManyWakeUpsTilWeSail

[ProgRockCruiser]

14 minutes ago, Joebucks said:

 

I always loved this explanation. Why did the flu go away? Because everyone wore masks, washed hands, and social distanced!

 

Why did COVID surge? Because no one wore masks, washed hands, and social distanced.

Actually, COVID surged much less than feared because a certain number of people were mindful (or fearful) enough to do the right thing.  Look at all the curves for the US in May 2020 or so - nicely starting to drop.

 

Then people got lax/tired, and things got worse.  The only reason there wasn't a complete collapse of the health care system was that there were still enough people being careful.

 

Here's another analogy that someone will hate:

 

If the roads are icy, and everybody slows down, it is possible that no-one will slip off the road or crash, or at least very few.  But if some people start feeling confident that no crashes have occurred and speed up because it was a conspiracy by the salt-truck companies and the Gov't and Bezos and the Illuminati, guess what?  You end up with crashes and folks sitting in ditches upside down.  If not everyone speeds up, then, while you still end up with a bad situation, it is possible you do not end up with everyone smashed up, unless/until the "speeders" reach a critical mass, and then there are too many out of control cars, and the folks trying to stay slow still get sideswiped.

 

These things don't have on/off switches.  They are more like a dimmer switch - you can turn it down so that it appears pretty dark, but it the light can feed itself, it can re-brighten by itself.  Sorry, another much-maligned analogy.

[ProgRockCruiser]

8 minutes ago, TooManyWakeUpsTilWeSail said:

I’m not an expert (many here proclaim to be) but I would guess both influenza and covid cases/deaths are lower than THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN OTHERWISE due to safety precautions.

This.

 

Compare to the Y2K bug - because there was so much effort put into fixing the existing code base, there weren't any calamities.  Some folks therefore said it was a waste of time and money.  Perhaps in some cases it would have made nary a spot of difference, but I think it certainly prevented a lot of catastrophes.  Thing is, we can't go back and experiment to see "what-if".

[tallnthensome]

4 minutes ago, kdr69 said:

I agree that it worked damn great on the FLU not so much for COVID.  Interesting since they are both spread the same way that only one was actually affected transmissions wise since the precautions were the exact same.  Just an observation and curiosity on the discrepancy.

We also had a flu vaccine in the fall and no Covid vaccine until a couple months ago .....

[ProgRockCruiser]

39 minutes ago, d12j28 said:

Sorry Prog, I was referring to the new guide lines from the CDC and Tom saying change is good with new info. Everything gets lost in between the two year olds name calling. 

 

What exactly is the new information the CDC has that people (vaccinated) don't have to wear masks now vs say last month. 

Oh, OK, now I see what you meant.

 

The CDC noted several recent papers that established the relative safety in not wearing a mask if fully vaxxed.

 

They specifically stated this broad generalization:

 

"Based on the continuing downward trajectory of cases, the scientific data on the performance of our vaccines and our understanding of how the virus spreads," Walensky said, "that moment has come for those who are fully vaccinated."

 

I also read:

 

[Dr. Rochelle Walensky] cited three studies -- one from Israel and two from the United States -- that show vaccines work.

 

The Israeli study, which was published in the Journal of the American Medical Association, showed the vaccine was 97% effective against symptomatic Covid-19 and 86% effective against asymptomatic infection in over 5,000 health care workers.

 

This is the link to that Israeli study:

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2779853

 

Sources:

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/cdc-plans-drop-mask-requirements-fully-vaccinated-people-n1267249

https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/13/health/cdc-mask-guidance-vaccinated/index.html

[kdr69]

1 minute ago, tallnthensome said:

We also had a flu vaccine in the fall and no Covid vaccine until a couple months ago .....

I get it yes there was a vaccine and more people did get the flu vaccine this year than normal but not "everyone" did so theoretically it was the Flu vaccine that was the cause not the precautions but still one would expect to see some cases even if drastically reduced and there were 0 cases of Seasonal flu reported here so far this year according to our Minister of Health.  Maybe the Flu is taking the holiday we all so desperately want lol.  I mean we have people vaccinated now for COVID but its still spreading so if we had people vaccinated for the Flu why did that still not spread?  They are both contagious viruses.

[ProgRockCruiser]

12 minutes ago, kdr69 said:

I mean we have people vaccinated now for COVID but its still spreading so if we had people vaccinated for the Flu why did that still not spread?  They are both contagious viruses.

The flu needs a vector from the origin (Asia).  Canada has significantly shut its borders, so the usual vectors over the winter had very few routes.  It doesn't just pop up from last year's remains, it effectively dies out every year - it evolves elsewhere in the world.

 

That, combined with health protocols observed on the few flights that occurred, probably helped a lot, especially for you in Alberta, since the big arrival airports from Asia are YVR and YYZ, and reduced inter-provincial travel.  How many flu cases in those provinces?  Likely a few, but at greatly reduced numbers I am sure.

 

EDIT: this helps explain the Asian-source of the vector:

 

https://www.uchicagomedicine.org/forefront/biological-sciences-articles/where-does-the-flu-come-from-every-year

 

EDIT2: and a study from last year about the spread of flu suddenly cutting out in Asia during the 2019-2020 season after the adoption of widespread social distancing/hygiene methods due to COVID-19. It did not cut out in the US for that season because it died out naturally just as social distancing measures were coming into place in the US in March 2020.

 

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/11/20-0861_article

Edited May 14, 2021 by ProgRockCruiser

[kdr69]

3 minutes ago, ProgRockCruiser said:

The flu needs a vector from the origin (Asia).  Canada has significantly shut its borders, so the usual vectors over the winter had very few routes.  It doesn't just pop up from last year's remains, it effectively dies out every year - it evolves elsewhere in the world.

 

That, combined with health protocols observed on the few flights that occurred, probably helped a lot, especially for you in Alberta, since the big arrival airports from Asia are YVR and YYZ, and reduced inter-provincial travel.  How many flu cases in those provinces?  Likely a few, but at greatly reduced numbers I am sure.

Thanks for the explanation the first part makes sense however just an FYI there has only been reduced inter-provincial travel in certain parts of the country (mostly Atlantic Provinces, Manitoba and Quebec) and not in Alberta (although it is recommended it is not mandatory) also until a few weeks ago there was absolutely no reduced travel between BC and Alberta and so Air travel via YVR and YYZ was not affected to a large extent.  From my air travel experiences during COVID  im not sure i could personally point to any health protocols other than wear a mask at all times as the Flights were always 100% full.  

 

[jfunk138]

2 hours ago, d12j28 said:

What exactly is the new information the CDC has that people (vaccinated) don't have to wear masks now vs say last month. 

I strongly suspect the "new data" is polling data.  When the polls turn against them, they lose credibility.

[kirtihk]

6 minutes ago, jfunk138 said:

I strongly suspect the "new data" is polling data.  When the polls turn against them, they lose credibility.

Most questions are rhetorical (to let steam out) no matter what one thinks.  Everyone knows underpinnings and core conditions of any discussion; therefore, it's pointless to try to get to the root of an answer (the root is obviously known but deluded and distorted).

[CI66774]

2 hours ago, Joebucks said:

 

I always loved this explanation. Why did the flu go away? Because everyone wore masks, washed hands, and social distanced!

 

Why did COVID surge? Because no one wore masks, washed hands, and social distanced.

Not that simple. Flu went away for other reasons, too. kids are little germ factories and majority were remote so no sharing of viruses and bringing them home to me. Americans went out a lot less and travelled via plane, etc. even less. We stayed home and didn’t mingle. Masks may have played some part but not being out and about touching stuff and putting your hands in your mouth, eyes,  one probably played a bigger role. Just my guess that being solitary was the biggest reason.

[jfunk138]

5 minutes ago, CI66774 said:

Not that simple. Flu went away for other reasons, too. kids are little germ factories and majority were remote so no sharing of viruses and bringing them home to me. Americans went out a lot less and travelled via plane, etc. even less. We stayed home and didn’t mingle. Masks may have played some part but not being out and about touching stuff and putting your hands in your mouth, eyes,  one probably played a bigger role. Just my guess that being solitary was the biggest reason.

Your kids and schools theory falls apart with Sweden where Flu also disappeared and primary schools remained open throughout the pandemic.  

While there was some reduction in going out in Sweden, things largely stayed open, yet Flu was gone.  Nobody wore masks in Sweden either.

 

The 2 most plausible reasons for Flu's disappearance that I have heard:

1.  Viral interference - where the immune response to one virus blocks another.

2.  Travel restrictions prevented Flu from making its way around the planet.

[elcuchio24]

2 hours ago, Joebucks said:

 

I always loved this explanation. Why did the flu go away? Because everyone wore masks, washed hands, and social distanced!

 

Why did COVID surge? Because no one wore masks, washed hands, and social distanced.

 

lock yourself in a sterile room for the rest of your life, I'm sure you will never get sick. Enjoy. 

[cruisingguy007]

13 minutes ago, jfunk138 said:

Your kids and schools theory falls apart with Sweden where Flu also disappeared and primary schools remained open throughout the pandemic.  

While there was some reduction in going out in Sweden, things largely stayed open, yet Flu was gone.  Nobody wore masks in Sweden either.

 

The 2 most plausible reasons for Flu's disappearance that I have heard:

1.  Viral interference - where the immune response to one virus blocks another.

2.  Travel restrictions prevented Flu from making its way around the planet.

 

A lot of people like to cherry pick Sweden but they did have 13 times the death rate of their neighbors at one time (up there with the worst countries of much larger size), switched high schools to distance learning, they had one of the lowest testing rates, and many people did social distance and wear masks though it wasn't mandated. They also have a relatively small population. Not quite comparable to the USA.   

Edited May 14, 2021 by cruisingguy007

[jfunk138]

4 hours ago, cruisingguy007 said:

 

A lot of people like to cherry pick Sweden but they did have 13 times the death rate of their neighbors at one time (up there with the worst countries of much larger size), switched high schools to distance learning, they had one of the lowest testing rates, and many people did social distance and wear masks though it wasn't mandated. They also have a relatively small population. Not quite comparable to the USA.   

Can you find any data on Swedish mask wearing?  When NY Times did an infographic it showed ~10% mask usage for Sweden.  Any reports of Swedes wearing masks are greatly exaggerated.

 

Many countries have had 13 times the death rate of their neighbors at one time.   As the pandemic wears on, Sweden is now lower death rate overall  than the EU average.

 

The Sweden example is not "cherry picking".  Its the "control group" for the grand NPI heath experiment going over the rest of the planet.  They didn't wear masks, kept primary schools open, and averted most forms of "lockdown" and still managed to beat the EU average for Covid and eliminated Flu as well.

[fair-winds39]

Can someone explain what jurisdiction the CDC has when a cruise ship departs from a destination in the northeast, i.e. NY NJ, etc., and and heads out into international waters. When can the CDC regulations, guidelines,  suggestions, be ignored, or can they be ignored?

[TNcruising02]

32 minutes ago, fair-winds39 said:

Can someone explain what jurisdiction the CDC has when a cruise ship departs from a destination in the northeast, i.e. NY NJ, etc., and and heads out into international waters. When can the CDC regulations, guidelines,  suggestions, be ignored, or can they be ignored?

 

I think their power lies in the fact that the cruise ships are returning to the US.  Therefore, they can require certain rules during the cruise.

I found this:
 

"Under section 361 of the Public Health Service Act (42 U.S. Code § 264), the U.S. Secretary of Health and Human Services is authorized to take measures to prevent the entry and spread of communicable diseases from foreign countries into the United States and between states.

The authority for carrying out these functions on a daily basis has been delegated to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC)."

Edited May 15, 2021 by TNcruising02

[fair-winds39]

On 5/14/2021 at 9:11 PM, TNcruising02 said:

 

I think their power lies in the fact that the cruise ships are returning to the US.  Therefore, they can require certain rules during the cruise.

I found this:
 

"Under section 361 of the Public Health Service Act (42 U.S. Code § 264), the U.S. Secretary of Health and Human Services is authorized to take measures to prevent the entry and spread of communicable diseases from foreign countries into the United States and between states.

The authority for carrying out these functions on a daily basis has been delegated to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC)."

Got it. Thanks.

[BrotherCraig]

It was great going to a store yesterday without a mask on.  Love it!  Can't wait to cruise in November with a lot of these "rumors" and "guidelines" being erased.  A bit of normalcy is nice.

[Cowboys4ever]

I thought the big thing about the vaccine was the Bill Gates was going to put a chip in everyone, which is why some (if not a lot) of people didn't want the vaccine.  Well can't they just turn that chip on and scan it to prove who has the vaccine or not, problem solved, we can all thank Big Bill for the ability to cruise again!   🙂  /sarcasm. 

 

Fully vaccinated and ready to cruise again.  Honestly I would have never stopped if the cruises didn't stop, I knew the risks and was willing to go, just like I am with every other form of sickness out there that people catch all the time, like the flu.   Let's just get this think going now, it's time.  There is zero reason that cruises can't return without the silly restrictions.  

 

Headed to Orlando end of the month for a land vacation and looking forward to the theme parks. Being around a crowd again will be fun.  

[Cowboys4ever]

On 5/13/2021 at 2:26 PM, Caps_Shield said:

There is a difference, IMO, between going to a local bar without a mask and going to say St. Kitts on a cruise.  One is a foreign land where you have no idea what variant or amount of vaccines have been given out.   I'm just saying that a cruise is different than on land thing.   For example, I'm going to Universal soon.  I do not expect anything to change there because of what the CDC says.   At least not for some time and that is within the US, Florida, but still the US I guess.  I just think people may be jumping the gun at the moment.  

Covid is Covid, it spreads the same in a bar as it would on a ship, so in that regard,  the risk is the same unmasked at a bar and unmasked on a ship, so why is one ok and one is not.. that was the point.  Of course, we have no control over what a destination port will require and I think we all understand that. 

 

I am headed to Universal myself with my family end of this month and really looking forward to it, first vacation since all this started.  And yes, Fl is part of the US and Universal did update their mask requirements based on the new guidelines from the CDC so you don't have to wear your mask at all times, just indoors and while on rides.  It's a small step forward 🙂   Enjoy Universal, I am really looking forward to being around a crowd of people again.