With the new ruling more or less likely to sail in July

[klfrodo]

8 hours ago, maddi730 said:

What is everyone’s opinion on the judgment regarding the cdc guidelines being overruled? Do you think the July cruises are more or less likely to sail now?? 

My opinion only but I don't think this is the final ruling. There are many more appeals and levels of court before anything is finalized.

[LadyMac72]

27 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Carnival should just ignore the judge and carry on as they had planned.

 

They could and Desantis would be out of steam because it's the business making the decision, not the CDC.  Sure, Florida can say businesses cannot require proof of vaccine so the upshot could be, if passengers voluntarily show their card, they bypass the testing requirements and can run amok maskless.  If the choose not to, they will be treated as unvaccinated and will require the PCR test 72 hours before embark, snap tests every time they get on/off the ship and one at debark - all charged to their sign & sail account.  Plus requiring marks, separate dining, separate shows, separate excursions.  

[DGNewton]

3 hours ago, bdever said:

Perfect 👍 Thank you for posting. Agreed, Carnival will restart as is and possibly make some adjustments for future sailings but I would imagine that what ever adjustments are to be made will be heavily influenced by data gathered from their summer sailings. Also I would like to add that the current ruling does not mean that the CDC’s oversight function ends. If there is an outbreak on a cruise, jurisdiction and oversight still falls back to the CDC so the cruise lines are still working hand in hand with the CDC regardless of the injunction. In the meantime, business as usual. 

And how do most folks feel - from the boards ask a cruise question:

[TNcruising02]

3 minutes ago, LadyMac72 said:

 

They could and Desantis would be out of steam because it's the business making the decision, not the CDC.  Sure, Florida can say businesses cannot require proof of vaccine so the upshot could be, if passengers voluntarily show their card, they bypass the testing requirements and can run amok maskless.  If the choose not to, they will be treated as unvaccinated and will require the PCR test 72 hours before embark, snap tests every time they get on/off the ship and one at debark - all charged to their sign & sail account.  Plus requiring marks, separate dining, separate shows, separate excursions.  

I think Carnival could do this if they wanted to, but I don't think it's necessary because they already have a plan in place for July and August cruises.  I really don't see them making any changes to their July and August cruises.  

RCL is making all of those rules because they are using a different approach.  Carnival flat out said they were sailing vaccinated, so I'll bet the majority of unvaccinated have already cancelled or asked for an exemption.

[BlerkOne]

18 minutes ago, DGNewton said:

And how do most folks feel - from the boards ask a cruise question:

Mirrored by CC's survey of 5000+

 

https://www.cruisecritic.com/articles.cfm?ID=6159

 

 

[Soxfan04]

47 minutes ago, LadyMac72 said:

 

They could and Desantis would be out of steam because it's the business making the decision, not the CDC.  Sure, Florida can say businesses cannot require proof of vaccine so the upshot could be, if passengers voluntarily show their card, they bypass the testing requirements and can run amok maskless.  If the choose not to, they will be treated as unvaccinated and will require the PCR test 72 hours before embark, snap tests every time they get on/off the ship and one at debark - all charged to their sign & sail account.  Plus requiring marks, separate dining, separate shows, separate excursions.  

Why would they need to be “snap tested” every time they get on/off the ship? 

[LadyMac72]

42 minutes ago, Soxfan04 said:

Why would they need to be “snap tested” every time they get on/off the ship? 

 

Just to make it more onerous if they really only want vaccinated cruises.  That's a big "if" but they could if they wanted to. 

[BlerkOne]

35 minutes ago, LadyMac72 said:

 

Just to make it more onerous if they really only want vaccinated cruises.  That's a big "if" but they could if they wanted to. 

Ports could require it as well, for the same reason.

[MrMarc]

9 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

Not according to the governor's site. More overreach?

 

https://www.flgov.com/2021/06/18/governor-desantis-wins-major-victory-to-protect-floridas-cruise-industry/?fbclid=IwAR0l_cKJ-EWNWZrVmvIoJL6gpgdOgn9cOreIoAKCI3rJtqJexR--JDJvuI0

 

Included in the ruling, the Middle District Court of Florida found that:

• The CDC cannot discriminately keep children and families from cruising;
• Neither the CDC, nor any federal agency, can require a vaccine passport; and
• The CDC must create an actual framework for businesses to resume operations, rather than forcing them to conduct burdensome and bureaucratic tests without any standard by which to be measured.

I have not found that anywhere in the decision, and no one has been able to show me where it says that.  The only mention of "vaccine passport" is in a footnote about the Florida law contributing to it's claimed harm. And this is directed to others reading your post, not you.

Edited June 20, 2021 by MrMarc
Clarify

[vilacr]

https://cruiseradio.net/carnival-protocols-mardi-gras-july-august/

[SheSailsFL]

12 hours ago, rabidstoat said:

 

Well, kids can still be a sticking point. They can't be vaccinated yet. I've seen polls that say people prefer vaccinated cruises, but I've not seen polls about vaccinated cruises except for kids. Personally I'd be fine with that, and any parents cruising with a young child would be, but I'm not sure about overall.

One reason why I am booking after school starts in most of the country - 3rd week in August.

[bdever]

8 hours ago, DGNewton said:

And how do most folks feel - from the boards ask a cruise question:

BINGO to the amen!

[ontheweb]

13 hours ago, SNJCruisers said:

Honor system with the unvaccinated?  That's the best joke I have heard in ages.

The honor system seems to be what is happening where I live when it comes to grocery stores whose signs now say according to CDC guidelines those fully vaccinated do not have to wear masks. Those not fully vaccinated must wear masks. Of course the momentary closeness of people in a grocery store is nothing like the conditions in a cruise ship.

[ontheweb]

8 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

Ports could require it as well, for the same reason.

Ports could further not allow unvaccinated passengers to enter their country. And the cruise lines could react to this by not allowing them to even board the ship in the first place.

[ontheweb]

3 hours ago, caugh51654 said:

One reason why I am booking after school starts in most of the country - 3rd week in August.

We start much later up here in the Northeast, right after Labor Day.

[SheSailsFL]

56 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

We start much later up here in the Northeast, right after Labor Day.

Yeah that’s true but I was afraid to wait much longer in case the COVID protocols change again.  Current ones are good through August I believe. 

So many unknowns right now..🤔😉

[kdr69]

Well I AM certainly ready to cruise and would if it werent for the Government Travel restrictions still in place.  However now that we  have reached the Federal Govt targets for Canada of 75% first shot and 20% fully vaccinated im hoping they will amend the restrictions prior to the newly extended deadline of July 31st.

[ontheweb]

3 hours ago, caugh51654 said:

Yeah that’s true but I was afraid to wait much longer in case the COVID protocols change again.  Current ones are good through August I believe. 

So many unknowns right now..🤔😉

Not only lots of unknowns, but things are changing constantly.

[ChutChut]

On 6/19/2021 at 10:17 AM, scendro said:

I don’t think the ruling on the “preliminary injunction” related to the conditional sail order will change what Carnival has already announced for its July and August sailings.  I don’t see Carnival changing their requirements that everyone be vaccinated except a small percentage of exemptions.  Carnival does not want to risk a bumpy restart by having unvaxxed passengers when it starts back up.

This ruling is clear- businesses can chose to follow the CDC’s “conditional sail order” or not -but are no longer required to - for the next 30 days.  Nothing in this ruling prevents Carnival or any other cruise line from requiring that passengers be vaccinated.  Nothing prevents any cruise line from following the CDC guidance.  At this points it’s in the hands of the cruise lines.  Personally, I think (initially) the cruise lines liked the idea of “blaming” the CDC for the strict vaccination guidelines during the start up - this was away for the cruise lines to appease the anti COVID vaccine crowd by placing on the blame on the CDC- Now they can’t really do that anymore since the CSO has been stayed during this injunction.  
 

Also, this “Preliminary Injunction” does not answer the question about whether or not cruise lines can require passengers to show proof of vaccination when sailing from Florida and I think a lot of people are conflating the two -very separate - issues.  The so called “vaccine passport” issue is not in front of this Judge or any judge as far as I’m aware of.  

Correct and, as such, FL's law is valid and in force. If Carnival, etc. chooses to violate it, it/they will be incurring millions of dollars in fines per sailing out of FL.

Edited June 20, 2021 by ChutChut

[ChutChut]

15 hours ago, LadyMac72 said:

 

They could and Desantis would be out of steam because it's the business making the decision, not the CDC.  Sure, Florida can say businesses cannot require proof of vaccine so the upshot could be, if passengers voluntarily show their card, they bypass the testing requirements and can run amok maskless.  If the choose not to, they will be treated as unvaccinated and will require the PCR test 72 hours before embark, snap tests every time they get on/off the ship and one at debark - all charged to their sign & sail account.  Plus requiring marks, separate dining, separate shows, separate excursions.  

Possibly. However, if any cruise line denies a service (e.g. non-vaxxed not permitted into a venue exclusively in use by vaxxed) that, conceivably, could run afoul of FL law despite it occurring in the open seas. If a cruise line charges more for the fare that isn't connected to a reasonable testing fee, that could be construed to run afoul, too. RCI, seemingly, already has (or will) implement some measures that could be viewed as a violation of FL law (restricting non-vax access to certain venues, providing less service in terms of shows, etc. to non-vax customers). If RCI charges a reasonable fee for testing non-vaxxed (not some huge markup unrelated to actual cost) that doesn't seem to violate FL law. In any event, FL law is in force and each violative sailing could rack up millions in fines. 

[ChutChut]

16 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

Carnival should just ignore the judge and carry on as they had planned.

Carnival may do as it wishes. However, in FL, there are consequences to violating its laws.

[ChutChut]

13 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

Ports could require it as well, for the same reason.

Not in FL as the Legislature already has spoken and requiring vax verification is prohibited. As the ports are mostly state-owned, they will not and cannot implement any protocol in violation of state law.

[ChutChut]

13 hours ago, MrMarc said:

I have not found that anywhere in the decision, and no one has been able to show me where it says that.  The only mention of "vaccine passport" is in a footnote about the Florida law contributing to it's claimed harm. And this is directed to others reading your post, not you.

The vaccine passport issue is not a part of the injunctive relief issue and not part of the ruling. 

[MrMarc]

4 minutes ago, ChutChut said:

The vaccine passport issue is not a part of the injunctive relief issue and not part of the ruling. 

Yes, but Governor DeSantis has a press release that says the Judge ruled that they cannot request it under Federal or State law.  I think at best it's another "misunderstanding".  Actually, no I don't.

[evandbob]

On 6/19/2021 at 12:33 PM, balcony bound said:

Hawaii, New York, and Oregon are the only states that currently have vaccine passports.  Pretty useless outside of the state that issued them.

Or the countries visited that require them.