How cruise lines are coping with Vaccination Ban

[coastcat]

On 6/26/2021 at 1:42 PM, reeinaz said:

My September NCL cruise didn't ask for vaccination verification when I booked it. There was just a message that appears when you selected the room category that said proof of vaccine required for all guests.

The check-in for my August 7 cruise is complete except for the health & safety section. I uploaded my photo, provided contact details, and attested that I’m fully vaccinated. However…

 

If you plan on checking in prior to 21 days before your sail date, additional information will be needed. So please come back to the online check-in at that time to complete all of the necessary information.

 

Presumably this means we’ll need to upload additional health info in the 3 weeks prior to sail date. That could include scans of the vaccine card, perhaps? I’m assuming we will be required to show the actual card at embarkation. 

Edited June 28, 2021 by coastcat

[sanger727]

On 6/25/2021 at 4:24 PM, RocketMan275 said:

A lawsuit.  Imagine a cruise line telling a passenger that if they don't produce proof of vaccination that the passenger will be denied access to a cruise that passenger had already paid for, plus incurred additional expenses for flights, hotel rooms, etc.  I would expect the state of Florida to claim that was in violation of their law and impose the penalties for all denied boarding.

 

This is easy. Require passengers to be checked in online at least 24 hours ahead of time. At the time of check in as if they will voluntarily provide proof of vaccination. If they say yes and provide it, they can check in. If they say no they get connected to a person in an office in India who cancels their cruise. No muss, no fuss. Nothing happening in Florida for them to get upset.

[JamieLogical]

12 minutes ago, sanger727 said:

 

This is easy. Require passengers to be checked in online at least 24 hours ahead of time. At the time of check in as if they will voluntarily provide proof of vaccination. If they say yes and provide it, they can check in. If they say no they get connected to a person in an office in India who cancels their cruise. No muss, no fuss. Nothing happening in Florida for them to get upset.

 

I don't think that will fly for Florida residents.

[sanger727]

7 minutes ago, JamieLogical said:

 

I don't think that will fly for Florida residents.

 

But isn't the restriction that businesses in Florida can't require proof of vaccine? You could argue that it's the location of the business at that point, not the customer. If the business contact point requiring the vaccine is not in Florida, it may fly. A non-Florida a business can certainly still require proof of vaccine from a Florida resident. 

[JamieLogical]

6 minutes ago, sanger727 said:

 

But isn't the restriction that businesses in Florida can't require proof of vaccine? You could argue that it's the location of the business at that point, not the customer. If the business contact point requiring the vaccine is not in Florida, it may fly. A non-Florida a business can certainly still require proof of vaccine from a Florida resident. 

 

The whole basis of the bill was to "protect" Florida residents. I honestly don't know enough about the specific language to say one way or another. Celebrity seems to have successfully worked around it for this week's Edge sailing. The challenge will come when any cruise line wants to require 100% vaccination (like NCL and Carnival), because then it will pass into the realm of "denial of service". Celebrity is not denying service to unvaccinated passengers, they are just allocating them to that 5%.

Edited June 29, 2021 by JamieLogical

[Homosassa]

22 minutes ago, JamieLogical said:

 

I don't think that will fly for Florida residents.

Why won't it?

 

Everyone keeps missing the language in the Florida Executive Order and law that allows for the implementation by businesses of procedures to protect public health.

 

That is why a Florida County down here immediately slammed down strict Covid 19 procedures for their employees and visitors to the building after two employees died, several were hospitalized, and others became ill (no hospitalization) from what appears to probably be a Delta strain. All were unvaccinated, the sole employee to remain healthy in the cluster was vaccinated. None of the employees who died, were hospitalized or just became ill had underlying health conditions and all belonged to the "invincible" forty five and under age group.

 

And shock of shocks, other employees in the building were asked about their vaccination status. 

 

If a Florida county can implement strict controls for the heath of people in a public building, cruise lines are certainly within their legal rights to implement screening controls and other procedures on their ships to protect the health of all on the ship.

Edited June 29, 2021 by Homosassa

[JamieLogical]

7 minutes ago, Homosassa said:

Why won't it?

 

Everyone keeps missing the language in the Florida Executive Order and law that allows for the implementation by businesses of procedures to protect public health.

 

That is why a Florida County down here immediately slammed down strict Covid 19 procedures for their employees and visitors to the building after two employees died and others became ill from what appears to probably be a Delta strain. All were unvaccinated, the sole employee to remain healthy in the cluster was vaccinated. 

 

And shock of shocks, other employees in the building were asked about their vaccination status. 

 

If a Florida county can implement strict controls for the heath of people in a public building, cruise lines are certainly within their legal rights to implement screening controls and other procedures on their ships to protect the health of all on the ship.

 

If all that is true, then the law has no teeth, which is fine by me!

[Homosassa]

1 minute ago, JamieLogical said:

 

If all that is true, then the law has no teeth, which is fine by me!

Yes, this is true.

 

It was cleverly written for political show while allowing exactly the public health measures that are necessary.

[coffeebean]

On 6/28/2021 at 8:32 AM, JamieLogical said:

 

I am sure it is possible. It would have to pass the state legislature again and the be signed by DeSantis.

If that does happen, I predict that would be the death knell for cruising out of Florida.

[coffeebean]

On 6/28/2021 at 8:53 AM, harkinmr said:

There is no way that type of change would be made. That would be an unconstitutional infringement on a person’s right to divulge private information about themselves. Even Florida is not going to go that far. Given that the Celebrity Edge sailed Saturday with 99% vaccinated passengers and voluntary submission of vaccination status without so much as a peep from anyone in the Governor’s office is a sure sign that the workaround is valid. Folks are stressing out about nothing. 

You gave me the answer I was looking for. Thank you for allowing me to breath a HUGE sigh of relief. Whew!

 

 

[coffeebean]

1 hour ago, sanger727 said:

 

But isn't the restriction that businesses in Florida can't require proof of vaccine? You could argue that it's the location of the business at that point, not the customer. If the business contact point requiring the vaccine is not in Florida, it may fly. A non-Florida a business can certainly still require proof of vaccine from a Florida resident. 

There should be no further concerns, questions, conjectures, feelings about, and wondering if this Florida law can be worked around. Celebrity sailed out of FLL with 99% vaxxed passengers on board with not one utterance of objection from the State of Florida. The "work around" WORKS! Other lines will follow with Celebrity's lead. Having said that, I'm still stumped as to how NCL's strategy to sail with 100% vaxxed passengers out of Florida will work. That remains to be seen.

[oteixeira]

17 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

There should be no further concerns, questions, conjectures, feelings about, and wondering if this Florida law can be worked around. Celebrity sailed out of FLL with 99% vaxxed passengers on board with not one utterance of objection from the State of Florida. The "work around" WORKS! Other lines will follow with Celebrity's lead. Having said that, I'm still stumped as to how NCL's strategy to sail with 100% vaxxed passengers out of Florida will work. That remains to be seen.

Anyone that doesn't volunteer their vaccination status would be denied boarding I would think?  For the first sailing on Edge that was 1 adult btw, from what the bloggers onboard were saying.  The rest were kids, and the total was about 30-40 if I remember right (that were not vaccinated) out of the total ship.

[RocketMan275]

2 hours ago, sanger727 said:

 

This is easy. Require passengers to be checked in online at least 24 hours ahead of time. At the time of check in as if they will voluntarily provide proof of vaccination. If they say yes and provide it, they can check in. If they say no they get connected to a person in an office in India who cancels their cruise. No muss, no fuss. Nothing happening in Florida for them to get upset.

You are denying service based upon vaccination status.

Embarkations takes place in Florida.

You're violating the Florida law.

 

All of these schemes are nothing more than 'arm chair' lawyering which usually doesn't work.

Wait till the first passenger is denied boarding because they didn't provide vaccination status.

 

BTW, you do realize that  your scheme would result in refundable cancellations only 24 hours from embarkation.  You did plan that the office in India would issue refunds, right?

[JamieLogical]

8 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

All of these schemes are nothing more than 'arm chair' lawyering which usually doesn't work.

Wait till the first passenger is denied boarding because they didn't provide vaccination status.

 

If/when that happens, I suspect the cruise line(s) would just pay the fine for the individual who is denied boarding. Right now, the numbers are such that allowing for 5% unvaccinated seems to be working. I am still uncertain how 100% vaccination could be enforced.

[Karaboudjan]

35 minutes ago, JamieLogical said:

 

If/when that happens, I suspect the cruise line(s) would just pay the fine for the individual who is denied boarding. Right now, the numbers are such that allowing for 5% unvaccinated seems to be working. I am still uncertain how 100% vaccination could be enforced.

I think it would still be based on the volunteer system, except with different consequences than with RCL/Celebrity.  Seemingly the number of 'incidents' would be quite low.

[KC12]

On 6/23/2021 at 5:30 AM, BermudaBound2014 said:

@JamieLogicalyes, NCL are certainly one of the last out of the Florida gate so they do have an opportunity to learn from others. However; as you know,  their current plan does not allow for compromise. Their plan (for now) remains 100% vaccination thru October. NCL either amends their plan or Florida amends their vaccination rule. 

Easy solution, allow people to board but let them know that none of the ports will allow them to enter the port.  Very few will take cruise and know they cannot leave the ship

 

[BermudaBound2014]

1 hour ago, KC12 said:

Easy solution, allow people to board but let them know that none of the ports will allow them to enter the port.  Very few will take cruise and know they cannot leave the ship

 

 

I think you are confused. Let me know if I can help. This reply has nothing to do with DeSantis's order that NCL is not allowed to ask for 100% vaccination in the state of Florida. Your proposed solution doesn't address the current problem. Two entirely different things.

Edited June 29, 2021 by BermudaBound2014

[coffeebean]

3 hours ago, oteixeira said:

Anyone that doesn't volunteer their vaccination status would be denied boarding I would think?  For the first sailing on Edge that was 1 adult btw, from what the bloggers onboard were saying.  The rest were kids, and the total was about 30-40 if I remember right (that were not vaccinated) out of the total ship.

If that is how NCL plans to "work around" the Florida law, they are not even offering 5% un-vaxxed on board. Where is the "work around" then? I can not wait to see how this works out for NCL.

[sanger727]

3 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

You are denying service based upon vaccination status.

Embarkations takes place in Florida.

You're violating the Florida law.

 

All of these schemes are nothing more than 'arm chair' lawyering which usually doesn't work.

Wait till the first passenger is denied boarding because they didn't provide vaccination status.

 

BTW, you do realize that  your scheme would result in refundable cancellations only 24 hours from embarkation.  You did plan that the office in India would issue refunds, right?

if you arrived in Florida without a booking and they denied boarding that’s not denying service due to vaccination. If you show up at any port tomorrow without a booking they will deny you embarking. Not because of vaccination, because of lack of booking….

 

they would probably issue FCC. Frankly if you have a cruise booked where they say 100% vaccinated, and you don’t believe them, that’s on you. Maybe you should have been more proactive instead of waiting until the day before or day of.

[coffeebean]

5 hours ago, JamieLogical said:

 

The whole basis of the bill was to "protect" Florida residents. I honestly don't know enough about the specific language to say one way or another. Celebrity seems to have successfully worked around it for this week's Edge sailing. The challenge will come when any cruise line wants to require 100% vaccination (like NCL and Carnival), because then it will pass into the realm of "denial of service". Celebrity is not denying service to unvaccinated passengers, they are just allocating them to that 5%.

I read on the Carnival forum that they are going with 95% vaxxed passengers. That seems to be more doable for the Florida law "work around".

[CptAleSpill]

4 hours ago, oteixeira said:

Anyone that doesn't volunteer their vaccination status would be denied boarding I would think?  For the first sailing on Edge that was 1 adult btw, from what the bloggers onboard were saying.  The rest were kids, and the total was about 30-40 if I remember right (that were not vaccinated) out of the total ship.

I think you’re right. 

[AKR2011]

I wonder if NCL would do something much more extreme than Royal. Like...Unless you are vaccinated, you are brought to your stateroom wearing a mask upon boarding and you're quarantined the entire cruise. Meals brought in but you can't leave your room. Then it's still 100% vaccinated for everyone but not technically violating the FL law. I know that is completely crazy, but you just never know. Would anyone board just to stay in their room the entire time???

[coffeebean]

3 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

You are denying service based upon vaccination status.

Embarkations takes place in Florida.

You're violating the Florida law.

 

All of these schemes are nothing more than 'arm chair' lawyering which usually doesn't work.

Wait till the first passenger is denied boarding because they didn't provide vaccination status.

 

BTW, you do realize that  your scheme would result in refundable cancellations only 24 hours from embarkation.  You did plan that the office in India would issue refunds, right?

This is not a "scheme" anyone on this forum has devised. Celebrity made it work for them, sailing with 99% vaxxed passengers in the very first cruise to sail from the US out of FLL. It CAN be done but.....the 100% vaxxed passengers that NCL is planning on is going to be very tricky.

[oteixeira]

1 hour ago, coffeebean said:

This is not a "scheme" anyone on this forum has devised. Celebrity made it work for them, sailing with 99% vaxxed passengers in the very first cruise to sail from the US out of FLL. It CAN be done but.....the 100% vaxxed passengers that NCL is planning on is going to be very tricky.

You keep saying this, but why is it more tricky?  Celebrity would have to turn away non-vaccinated passengers should they pass the 95% threshold.  That is no different then NCL tuning away non-vaccinated passengers.  Seems Florida was fine with Celebrity doing exactly this (they just didn't hit the threshold on cruise #1, but it doesn't mean they wont).

[NikiPinkston]

On 6/28/2021 at 10:44 AM, RunBikeCruiseDC said:

Curious if anybody knows if cruises out of ports other than FL and TX will be 100% vaccinated travelers?    Less of a headache for most of us.  

NCL will be sailing the Encore to Alaska out of Seattle starting next month.  All passengers will be100% vaccinated & I'll be among them in August!