Nonrefundable deposits

[donaldsc]

I have no problem w being given the option of either a non-refundable deposit or a refundable one at a slightly higher cost.  I always take the refundable option just in case.

 

What I do have a problem w is that there are a few lines that ONLY have non-refundable deposit policies.  These are usually the ones with boutique ships or adventure cruises.  There was one cruise that I was very interested in and would have booked that had a $1200 non-refundable deposit.  It wasn't the $1200 deposit (you pay me now or you pay me later) but the fact that the $1200 appeared to be totally non-refundable.  T don't book a cruise with the intention of maybe taking it.  When I book I am all in on the cruise.  However, I am 80 years old and would have been 82 when the $1200 cruise occurred and at that age things are more likely to happen than when you are 50 years old.  Also, things happen at any age.  Several years ago, I had a cruise booked on Azamara that I had to cancel because of surgery.  I got most of my deposit back as I had to cancel after the final payment date.  That was fair to both parties - to me and to the cruise line.

 

So give me the option of less cost and non-refundable or higher cost and refundable and let me make my own choice.

 

DON

[ontheweb]

3 hours ago, Hlitner said:

There has been a growing trend, among many cruise lines, in the past few years to offer the option of non-refundable deposits.  In most cases this is an OPTION and one can almost always find different fares with fully refundable deposits.  If you cannot find all the options I suggest you start dealing with a decent high volume cruise agency.  One of our favorite agencies actually lists all the various pricing options (refundable, non-refundable, with promotions, without promotions, etc) online.  With some of the mass market cruise lines it is not unusual to see more then 4 different prices (for the same cabin) depending on the options.

 

I am very supportive of this non-refundable option.  It generally lets folks obtain a lower cruise price if they are willing to accept a non-refundable deposit.  If they want a refundable deposit they simply must pay a higher price for the cruise.  Nothing wrong with this policy and it has been needed for a long time.  Too many folks will book multiple cruises (often on the same dates) with no intention of taking most cruises booked.  They simply want to hold space until they later decide which cruise (if any) they prefer.  They will then cancel most of their bookings near the penalty period.  These folks cause lots of problems in the industry as they pull cabins out of inventory which they then release at the last possible moment.   This often leaves the cruise line with having to either overbook a cruise or offer their unsold inventory at bargain prices because they become available at the last minute.  I should mention that some other cruise lines such as Oceania try to deal with this issue by starting their penalty period as far as 6 months prior to the cruise.

 

Hank

We once had out TA looking out for a certain itinerary. He found it and it had a discount for passengers from NY state. And then he found an even lower rate, much lower. The kicker was that the deposit was not only nonrefundable, but was the entire cruise fare. We took it. We had no intention of not going, but bought insurance in case something unforeseen caused us to have to cancel. I realize there could be no price drops, but it was a much lower rate than we had ever seen on that itinerary.

[wowzz]

2 hours ago, donaldsc said:

However, I am 80 years old and would have been 82 when the $1200 cruise occurred and at that age things are more likely to happen than when you are 50 years old. 

Surely that is what insurance is for.  You pay the deposit,  and if you cannot go due to medical  issues, you claim on your policy. 

Without being unkind, you would be crazy to travel without insurance anyway. 

[wowzz]

7 hours ago, Hlitner said:

Speaking of EU consumer protection it is not always as it appears.  When one UK airline went bankrupt with some of our money we sought to get our money refunded.  It quickly became apparent that although such a refund was guaranteed under European regulations it was not going to happen.  We ultimately got our money refunded by our American credit card company (we also have some consumer protection).  In another similar case we had a flight booked with Czech Airlines who cancelled our flight without having any other reasonable alternatives.  When we asked Czech Airlines for a refund (which we are entitled to under EU regulations) they refused and said they might consider a refund at a later time.  Again, our U.S. credit card returned our money (we have some protection under a Federal law).

 

You make your own bed! 

If you had booked through a European TA, you would not have had a problem!

Touché

[sverigecruiser]

On 7/16/2021 at 4:30 PM, Hlitner said:

 

Speaking of EU consumer protection it is not always as it appears.  When one UK airline went bankrupt with some of our money we sought to get our money refunded.  It quickly became apparent that although such a refund was guaranteed under European regulations it was not going to happen.  

 

I'm not sure if this is an EU thing or a Swedish thing but here the protections is much better if you have booked a package. For example airline tickets + hotel or a cruise give you better protections than booking airline and hotel at different places.

 

When an airline went bankrupt you may be out of luck unless you bought the airline tickets and hotel as a package. 

[hallasm]

On 7/16/2021 at 4:30 PM, Hlitner said:

Speaking of EU consumer protection it is not always as it appears. 

Does only apply if you purchase your travel at an European agency - if you purchase with non European agency the rule doesn’t apply.
Also you must purchase a packet - if just a airline ticket the EU packet dire give doesn’t apply.
A cruise might be considered a package because of both transportation and accommodation - airline ticket is only a packet if purchased together with accommodation.

[Hlitner]

37 minutes ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

I'm not sure if this is an EU thing or a Swedish thing but here the protections is much better if you have booked a package. For example airline tickets + hotel or a cruise give you better protections than booking airline and hotel at different places.

 

When an airline went bankrupt you may be out of luck unless you bought the airline tickets and hotel as a package. 

In the USA I think our best consumer protection are the Federal Laws/Regulations that apply to the use of major credit cards.  Over the years this has led to a situation where the credit card companies will quickly refund money in the case of bankruptcy or when a company does not provide the product or service that was purchased with the credit card.   Consumers should try to resolve issues directly with the company (such as an airline) but if they do not get satisfaction we can ask our credit card company for what is called a "charge back" which essentially gives us our money back.  The credit card companies do investigate the claim (and will give the company a chance to object) but many such issues are quickly resolved in the consumer's favor.   This has actually caused lots of issues during the pandemic because some cruise lines have been very slow to refund money for cancelled cruises.  Some consumers then turned to their credit card companies to get their money back and the credit card companies got caught in the middle between slow refund policies at the cruise lines and a consumers rights under Federal Law.

 

Hank

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

 This has actually caused lots of issues during the pandemic because some cruise lines have been very slow to refund money for cancelled cruises.  Some consumers then turned to their credit card companies to get their money back and the credit card companies got caught in the middle between slow refund policies at the cruise lines and a consumers rights under Federal Law.

 

Hank

One has to wonder if this caused even more of a delay in refunds as the cruise companies had to deal with the credit card companies as well as the long list of refunds for cancelled cruises. They would also have to double check chargeback requests from credit cards against who they had already refunded or were in the process of refunding.

 

I held off requesting a credit card involvement to give them time, and received a full refund just short of 90 days from when we cancelled with a refundable deposit a cruise I knew could never sail. (They cancelled a month later.)