Why did they scale back on Havana on Mardi Gras?

[Sagittarius traveler]

Because of loft 19. 

[SNJCruisers]

7 hours ago, Radio said:

 

Loft19 is =Not= available to all suites. . .Just the 32 Excel Suites on Mardi Gras get to use Loft19. There are 148 other suite that are not eligible  (Ocean Suites, Spa Suites, Family Harbor Suites etc. . .)

Radio

Sorry for the mistake.   Out of my price range and I have to infer that you're currently booked in a regular suite and you're now having sour grapes that you can't get into Loft 19.  It's OK, I am in an inside and we both have the same access to the best Serenity area in the fleet.

[mondello]

@radio and @snjcruisers, for $250 each you can split the daily rental fee and share in the rarefied air of a Loft 19 Cabana.

[SNJCruisers]

12 hours ago, mondello said:

@radio and @snjcruisers, for $250 each you can split the daily rental fee and share in the rarefied air of a Loft 19 Cabana.

For $0.00 I can relax one deck below in the Serenity area and also have a pool instead of an infinity hot tub and also have access to a bar.

[Sagittarius traveler]

I'm waiting for someone to.book loft 19 so I can see if it is worth it.

[Sagittarius traveler]

"Currently, the price to rent week-long access to a Loft 19 cabana is $2,000 (plus an 18 percent gratuity). When renting a cabana in advance on the Carnival website, guests are shown where the cabanas are and which of them are still available for them to select"

 

 

I'm not sure it seems like a waste of money to charge over $2000 for a week and then gratuity...let's see how many people actually use it I hope people don't so they lower the price of it because I can just get a cabana on the island for cheaper and go to serenity deck or have the Havana instead.

Edited August 17, 2021 by Sagittarius traveler

[Moviela]

Every time I visited the Havana pool area on Horizon in Europe, and Panorama in California it was not drawing a crowd. People seemed to enjoy their balcony or patio area more. I think that is the reason the rear outdoor deck area was open to all on Mardi Gras. More money for food & beverage. 

 

I think too that the pricing is correct for a cabana at Loft 19. The private space insulates them from banal conversations and chair hogs.   

[mondello]

On 8/15/2021 at 8:26 PM, Sagittarius traveler said:

I'm waiting for someone to.book loft 19 so I can see if it is worth it.

@jimbo5544 said they were sold out at least one day last week. I agree the price is high but, there are only 12 available.

[KmomChicago]

On 8/10/2021 at 1:19 PM, jimbo5544 said:

I asked someone who knows who told me they are watching the HC cabins on the MG.  I had told him my thoughts which are similar to yours back in December 2019.  They are not unaware of the issue.  
 

On a semi related topic, he told me that on the MG almost totally more expensive cabins (suites, extended, specialty) are selling out first, much more so than other ships.  

 

It seems pretty clear to me what Carnival is dealing with here. They are essentially the entry level to cruising for working class Americans and have very successfully hung their hat on that core mission.

 

Except that a significant percentage of the first generation (and the second) of those working class Americans has now grown older, grown wealthier, and evolved more discerning travel tastes. People have inherited $$, they've become successful professionals or entrepreneurs, they've made money in stocks and by other smart or lucky strategies.  They want something better if they are going to stay loyal to that experience that started when they were working hourly jobs and Kathie Lee convinced them to bring their own little kiddies on a Fun Ship Cruise.  Anything upgraded and exclusive potentially appeals to that loyal market as their travel needs change over time, even if it's just a quiet porch outside the room with minimal walkers passing by.

 

Carnival has to know they are losing these passengers, sometimes to their sister lines like Holland America or Princess, or maybe Cunard or Seabourn. That's great for them, and in fact, my biggest criticism of VIFP is not that the perks are minimal with increasing tier levels. It's that they are missing a huge marketing opportunity. They don't have a credit/conversion chart to actually encourage this natural and obvious progression. Something like half of your day credits, so if you have 300 Carnival days you can jump right into Princess Elite, but you have to book one of these off-season cruises we are offering on this limited time special to make the conversion. 

 

Regardless of all that, sometimes they are still losing passengers to other operations entirely. People hop over to RCI and NCL and now MSC routinely. Disney. Celebrity. Virgin. Oceania. Crystal. Viking. Hurtigruten. American Cruise Lines. Etc. Etc. 

 

The biggest problem with the oldest Fantasy class ships is that they are one-class operations, basically. Very few balconies and suites and those that they do have are comparatively overpriced, with limited onboard amenities compared to the new standards. We are definitely going to see that addressed in all newbuilds. 

 

[jimbo5544]

1 hour ago, KmomChicago said:

 

It seems pretty clear to me what Carnival is dealing with here. They are essentially the entry level to cruising for working class Americans and have very successfully hung their hat on that core mission.

 

Except that a significant percentage of the first generation (and the second) of those working class Americans has now grown older, grown wealthier, and evolved more discerning travel tastes. People have inherited $$, they've become successful professionals or entrepreneurs, they've made money in stocks and by other smart or lucky strategies.  They want something better if they are going to stay loyal to that experience that started when they were working hourly jobs and Kathie Lee convinced them to bring their own little kiddies on a Fun Ship Cruise.  Anything upgraded and exclusive potentially appeals to that loyal market as their travel needs change over time, even if it's just a quiet porch outside the room with minimal walkers passing by.

 

Carnival has to know they are losing these passengers, sometimes to their sister lines like Holland America or Princess, or maybe Cunard or Seabourn. That's great for them, and in fact, my biggest criticism of VIFP is not that the perks are minimal with increasing tier levels. It's that they are missing a huge marketing opportunity. They don't have a credit/conversion chart to actually encourage this natural and obvious progression. Something like half of your day credits, so if you have 300 Carnival days you can jump right into Princess Elite, but you have to book one of these off-season cruises we are offering on this limited time special to make the conversion. 

 

Regardless of all that, sometimes they are still losing passengers to other operations entirely. People hop over to RCI and NCL and now MSC routinely. Disney. Celebrity. Virgin. Oceania. Crystal. Viking. Hurtigruten. American Cruise Lines. Etc. Etc. 

 

The biggest problem with the oldest Fantasy class ships is that they are one-class operations, basically. Very few balconies and suites and those that they do have are comparatively overpriced, with limited onboard amenities compared to the new standards. We are definitely going to see that addressed in all newbuilds. 

 

Ypu might be surprised at their demographics.  That said, from their perspective, they beleive that the model that worked until covid, was to have as many ships in homeports so that cruisers could begin on Carnival.  Of course there is fallout, but I am certain that they feel if they do a good enough job, the majority will stay with them.  The numbers in the loyalty program on their ships pretty much bears this out.  

 

Whether the driver was covid and the economics or not, the Fantasy class days were numbered.  I actually prsented an outline of a plan to them in2018 to redo the ships one at a time and start a spin off called Carnival Classic, upscale in nature, bringing back all the things gone to the wayside over the years.  They politely toldme to not quit my day job.

[klfhngr]

On 8/10/2021 at 7:04 AM, Joebucks said:

It was definitely interesting to see. If I had to take a shot in the dark, Loft 19 was the premier private access that they believe can really skyrocket in price. It almost looks like Havana was added in later or changed at some point to still allow for a higher cost room option in-between.

 

 

I agree that the cabanas are expensive. I also think cabanas everywhere are overpriced. $2000 for a week definitely is not inconsistent with cabana pricing. Maybe they did misjudge the demand. Maybe they retweak the perks. One way or another, it will become a cash cow for them.

 

If I'm paying 2 grand, then I'm sleeping there all week!

[Rosethorn40]

On 8/9/2021 at 2:57 PM, jimbo5544 said:

Remains to be seen. Currently it is $500 for a cabana for a day.  Guess how

many are filled today?

 

On 8/10/2021 at 12:00 AM, mexicobob said:

OK, give up. How many?

 

On 8/10/2021 at 12:06 AM, lazydayz said:

my guess is none.  

On our sailing of March 5, 2022, all of the cabanas are already sold out

[jimbo5544]

Just now, Rosethorn40 said:

 

 

On our sailing of March 5, 2022, all of the cabanas are already sold out

After I posted my post you quoted above, we had the opportunity to have dinner on the MG in Tepanyaki and I asked him about the cost and how the bookings were going.  His answer blew me away, he told me they were sold out for the cruise we were on, as well as the next 5 cruises.  He had said they were concerned about the pricing but sales exceeded their expectations.  Unrelated but of interest as well was that for both the MG and Celebration, expensive cabins were outselling balcony and below at a remarkable rate.  Their are messages in both those statements.

[KmomChicago]

52 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

After I posted my post you quoted above, we had the opportunity to have dinner on the MG in Tepanyaki and I asked him about the cost and how the bookings were going.  His answer blew me away, he told me they were sold out for the cruise we were on, as well as the next 5 cruises.  He had said they were concerned about the pricing but sales exceeded their expectations.  Unrelated but of interest as well was that for both the MG and Celebration, expensive cabins were outselling balcony and below at a remarkable rate.  Their are messages in both those statements.

 

It's interesting, however that a lot of these might have been casino guests in suites that were comped or cheap, leaving $$ open for the cabanas.

[balcony bound]

On 8/17/2021 at 9:31 AM, jimbo5544 said:

Whether the driver was covid and the economics or not, the Fantasy class days were numbered.  I actually prsented an outline of a plan to them in2018 to redo the ships one at a time and start a spin off called Carnival Classic, upscale in nature, bringing back all the things gone to the wayside over the years.  They politely toldme to not quit my day job.

I would have been interested in your proposed idea, would have sailed in a heartbeat!

[jimbo5544]

3 hours ago, KmomChicago said:

 

It's interesting, however that a lot of these might have been casino guests in suites that were comped or cheap, leaving $$ open for the cabanas.

That could be true, but in the end, I do not think they care how they go, but that  they do.

[jimbo5544]

2 hours ago, balcony bound said:

I would have been interested in your proposed idea, would have sailed in a heartbeat!

It was fairly detailed, and had pics from a couple of the ships that had been sold and done over and links to the Azamara ships which were old Princess ships that had similar done to them.  I also linked to the things that had been removed over the years.  

[KmomChicago]

7 hours ago, jimbo5544 said:

That could be true, but in the end, I do not think they care how they go, but that  they do.

 I get that of course. If I were a marketing person I would be very happy with this result and the more cabanas you are renting while in your comped suite, the more times I would want to comp you your suite over and over.  As a business, you need to assume there are people looking for things to spend their $$ on, and you have a responsibility to provide them the opportunity.  Somebody is paying attention to trends and keeping Carnival in the mix.

 

There are a lot of arguments about what Carnival does well or doesn't do well. In the end it comes down to perceived value for each potential guest. I am really glad to see Carnival providing some contemporary, attractive, truly impressive suites - and associated amenities like Loft 19 - for their highest end clientele.  Looking at Legend for our next booking, the "best" suite, the Grand Suite, really is just a big stateroom, still only 300 SF with the same bed, similar couch, similar décor to all the rest of the rooms onboard. If my mom didn't insist, I would never think this room is worth what they charge for it, compared to two side by side standard balcony cabins.  The value isn't quite there imho. This problem is worse on Fantasy class ships - what qualifies as a Jr. Suite on those is not much more than a standard balcony room on other ships.  

 

Now these new suites on Mardi Gras are definitely elevated and special compared to the many other onboard room options.  I've studied up on the Oasis class suites and there is a lot of impressive real estate to choose from, but the $$ is up in the stratosphere for most of them so Carnival is still holding on to their competitive advantage in the budget category.  

 

I realize I am blathering on and on but that's what the suits do at corporate as well.

[jimbo5544]

1 hour ago, KmomChicago said:

 I get that of course. If I were a marketing person I would be very happy with this result and the more cabanas you are renting while in your comped suite, the more times I would want to comp you your suite over and over.  As a business, you need to assume there are people looking for things to spend their $$ on, and you have a responsibility to provide them the opportunity.  Somebody is paying attention to trends and keeping Carnival in the mix.

 

There are a lot of arguments about what Carnival does well or doesn't do well. In the end it comes down to perceived value for each potential guest. I am really glad to see Carnival providing some contemporary, attractive, truly impressive suites - and associated amenities like Loft 19 - for their highest end clientele.  Looking at Legend for our next booking, the "best" suite, the Grand Suite, really is just a big stateroom, still only 300 SF with the same bed, similar couch, similar décor to all the rest of the rooms onboard. If my mom didn't insist, I would never think this room is worth what they charge for it, compared to two side by side standard balcony cabins.  The value isn't quite there imho. This problem is worse on Fantasy class ships - what qualifies as a Jr. Suite on those is not much more than a standard balcony room on other ships.  

 

Now these new suites on Mardi Gras are definitely elevated and special compared to the many other onboard room options.  I've studied up on the Oasis class suites and there is a lot of impressive real estate to choose from, but the $$ is up in the stratosphere for most of them so Carnival is still holding on to their competitive advantage in the budget category.  

 

I realize I am blathering on and on but that's what the suits do at corporate as well.

We all blather…lol.  Actually the best suite on the Legend is the VS (specifically the 4th floor.  Two distinct rooms best balcony on the ship.

[Frank12]

On 8/17/2021 at 9:31 AM, jimbo5544 said:

 They politely toldme to not quit my day job.

That is hilarious! 😆

[jimbo5544]

5 minutes ago, Frank12 said:

That is hilarious! 😆

LOL, it was.  This was at a formal awards ceremony in NY, everyone dressed to the nines.  

[KmomChicago]

9 hours ago, jimbo5544 said:

We all blather…lol.  Actually the best suite on the Legend is the VS (specifically the 4th floor.  Two distinct rooms best balcony on the ship.

 

Yes, they were not available, nor the Junior Suites right next door to them which are the same size as an Ocean Suite up on 6 but with a smaller balcony. I liked the layout of those better. I will keep checking in case something opens up and they let us move.

 

We didn't like the VS on the higher decks without much shade.

Edited August 19, 2021 by KmomChicago

[jimbo5544]

2 hours ago, KmomChicago said:

 

Yes, they were not available, nor the Junior Suites right next door to them which are the same size as an Ocean Suite up on 6 but with a smaller balcony. I liked the layout of those better. I will keep checking in case something opens up and they let us move.

 

We didn't like the VS on the higher decks without much shade.

Keep trying, right around final payment.

[UPNYGuy]

On 8/17/2021 at 8:14 AM, KmomChicago said:

People hop over to RCI and NCL and now MSC routinely. Disney. Celebrity. Virgin. Oceania. Crystal. Viking. Hurtigruten. American Cruise Lines. Etc. Etc. 

 

very accurate. DW and I also sail on MSC (Yacht Club) NCL (Haven), Oceania, RC, and used to sail on HAL.

[ashkir]

My only pet peeve is the beautiful walkout balcony doesn't have a key for the "backdoor" sucks to walk all the way around instead of just stepping out of your room.