August 27, 2021 Update to CDC's CSO ... are the goal posts moving yet again?

[zelker]

Ran across a very active thread on Royal Caribbean forum this morning and was surprised to see it hasn't been mentioned on HAL yet as it certainly should impact upcoming cruises from the US ports (except I guess according to this, not Florida).  Here's a summary they posted but what caught my attention specifically and is stirring up things on the Royal thread (and undoubtedly will here too) has to do with the change to testing timelines.  IF HAL makes pier-side testing available, it's not a bad thing but if not, for vaccinated passengers (which we all must be through at least the end of 2021), it looks like the testing timeline will be reduced from 72 hrs (3 days) to 48 hrs (assume 2 days).  

 

I certainly don't purport to be an expert on all of this so if someone interprets this differently, I'm happy to hear your thoughts.

 

 

Summary of Recent Changes

August 27, 2021

Added language advising cruise ship operators to voluntarily reconsider the following mask policies: allowing fully vaccinated crew to remove masks indoors in areas inaccessible to passengers; designating areas as only accessible to fully vaccinated passengers and crew where masks and physical distancing are not required; advising passengers and crew on ships with 95% of crew and 95% of passengers who are fully vaccinated that they do not have to wear a mask or maintain physical distance in any areas. This change was based on the CDC’s guidance for fully vaccinated people and the increased transmissibility of some SARS-CoV-2 variants of concern,

Revised screening testing and documentation requirements for fully vaccinated passengers and those who are not fully vaccinated, for pre-embarkation, embarkation, and back-to-back sailing, for cruise ships operating under the CSO, including those choosing to follow CSO measures on a voluntary basis. This change was due to the increased transmissibility of some COVID-19 variants of concern, and evidence of breakthrough cases in fully vaccinated individuals,

Added language reflecting that, as of July 23, 2021, the CSO and accompanying measures, such as technical instructions, are nonbinding recommendations for cruise ships arriving in, located within, or departing from a port in Florida. However, CDC will continue to operate the CSO as a voluntary program for such ships should they choose to follow the CSO measures on a voluntary basis.

 

Click on the following link and then scroll down to Testing of Embarking and Disembarking Passengers for Restricted Voyages

 

COVID-19 Operations Manual for Simulated and Restricted Voyages under the Framework for Conditional Sailing Order | Quarantine | CDC

[Boytjie]

Moving goal posts or reevaluating things based on scientific study?

[zelker]

12 minutes ago, Boytjie said:

Moving goal posts or reevaluating things based on scientific study?

One would hope but ... 🤷‍♀️

 

Edited August 29, 2021 by zelker

[silversneakers]

Noted this past week that NCL Encore had a testing center (Convention?) in Seattle just prior to cruising.

[atexsix]

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/28/is-it-safe-to-go-on-a-cruise-during-covid-pandemic-2021-restrictions.html

 

I recently read this article which talks about the covid test as "irrelevant" and the timing and the absence of an associated quarantine have a lot to do with it.  We've been voluntarily quarantined for at least two weeks, our tests are on Wednesday, but we can easily be exposed on Thursday or Friday as we travel to the ship.  It makes so much more sense to test at the pier and then again on the ship at least once.  And if they switch it to 48 hours they will have to. They are losing so much money with the way it's set up now, if I were a shareholder I'd be pretty unhappy. 

 

The article ends with the color code system and I wish it had elaborated because it's not transparent enough.  I like the concept, but it's too vague, there needs to be more details on what type of outbreak it is, if it's confined to the crew I don't see why they can't just say that.  Millie's been green since they implemented the covid testing, why?  What are they doing differently? 

 

There's also this issue from May, and I think it's getting worse, there's a lot of politics surrounding their edicts and it's spilling over into the cruising world; I don't see it improving either.

 

https://www.npr.org/2021/05/13/996331692/poll-finds-public-health-has-a-trust-problem

 

 

 

10 minutes ago, Boytjie said:

Moving goal posts or reevaluating things based on scientific study?

 

Completely agree it'll evolve over time and will hopefully improve, so long as it's well thought out and implemented based on scientific study rather than pundits, politicians, and knee jerk reactions.

 

We want to book future cruises but we're not going to even consider it until HAL fixes this.  I wouldn't care if the goalposts moved, so long as it's before the start of the game.  Doing it 4th quarter with 2 minutes left on the clock with all burdens and costs falling on your customers is a great way to go out of business. 

 

[Boytjie]

36 minutes ago, atexsix said:

Completely agree it'll evolve over time and will hopefully improve, so long as it's well thought out and implemented based on scientific study rather than pundits, politicians, and knee jerk reactions.

 

We want to book future cruises but we're not going to even consider it until HAL fixes this.  I wouldn't care if the goalposts moved, so long as it's before the start of the game.  Doing it 4th quarter with 2 minutes left on the clock with all burdens and costs falling on your customers is a great way to go out of business. 

 

 

Unfortunately the virus doesn't give weeks notice before things change! 😉

 

While I think testing is helpful, I also believes it give some false sense of security. When you test negative, it only means that at the time your test sample was taken, you did not have indications of an active infection. You don't know if you you might have gotten the virus just before taking the test, or in the time between getting tested and getting the results, or by the time you printed the results, or by the time you check in for the cruise.

 

Testing is helpful and useful, but it is not a guarantee of being absolutely safe. IMHO. 

[atexsix]

13 minutes ago, Boytjie said:

 

Unfortunately the virus doesn't give weeks notice before things change! 😉

 

While I think testing is helpful, I also believes it give some false sense of security. When you test negative, it only means that at the time your test sample was taken, you did not have indications of an active infection. You don't know if you you might have gotten the virus just before taking the test, or in the time between getting tested and getting the results, or by the time you printed the results, or by the time you check in for the cruise.

 

Testing is helpful and useful, but it is not a guarantee of being absolutely safe. IMHO. 

Agree.  I didn't mean to imply it wasn't helpful, some positive tests will surely get weeded out and it's one less positive infecting the ship.  But people have whiplash from all the back n forth, the mask craziness alone has been like a tennis match, half the confusion came out of the CDC itself.  

 

I went and read the RCI thread and it sounds like the CDC's recommended testing window might narrow at some point, and I don't see how they can incorporate covid testing into the logistical endeavor of getting to a cruise port, a full day effort for many people, at least.  The current business model of booking flights, hotels, and transfers via the cruise line will need to be replaced with flying people in for the covid test and nothing else.  HAL's website is just plain annoying about it, "we are glad to know you are arriving pre-cruise to enjoy downtown Seattle....you can book an appointment and results are sent electronically within 2 days."  Yippee!!  So how's that going to work when people have to be on the ship in 1 day.  Really HAL?

 

I think they completely underestimated what was involved for the average passenger, it was poorly implemented, heck, I'm not even convinced they did even the minimal required research and vetting of such a process.  "They'll do it if they want to cruise bad enough" is probably what the suits were thinking....meanwhile the ships have averaged how much in capacity?

 

 

[zelker]

Someone just started a thread with this NEW TESTING INFO from HAL FAQ's BUT nowhere does it say that the results are guaranteed to be back within 48 hrs.  Cautiously optimistic but need to do more research.

 

 

Where can I get a viral COVID-19 test near me?

For U.S. guests, Holland America Line has partnered with Quest Diagnostics to provide over 1,500 locations in the United States to schedule a no-cost* COVID COVID-19 test appointment, with results delivered within 48 hours. Click here to find a testing location near you.

 

You can also contact your nearest health center, pharmacy, state health department, or transiting airport to learn more about their availability for COVID-19 testing. 

 

* This COVID-19 no-cost-to-you program is available to eligible individuals for $0 out of pocket when billed to a health plan or the government.

 

 

Edited August 29, 2021 by zelker

[nocl]

5 hours ago, zelker said:

Ran across a very active thread on Royal Caribbean forum this morning and was surprised to see it hasn't been mentioned on HAL yet as it certainly should impact upcoming cruises from the US ports (except I guess according to this, not Florida).  Here's a summary they posted but what caught my attention specifically and is stirring up things on the Royal thread (and undoubtedly will here too) has to do with the change to testing timelines.  IF HAL makes pier-side testing available, it's not a bad thing but if not, for vaccinated passengers (which we all must be through at least the end of 2021), it looks like the testing timeline will be reduced from 72 hrs (3 days) to 48 hrs (assume 2 days).  

 

I certainly don't purport to be an expert on all of this so if someone interprets this differently, I'm happy to hear your thoughts.

 

 

Summary of Recent Changes

August 27, 2021

Added language advising cruise ship operators to voluntarily reconsider the following mask policies: allowing fully vaccinated crew to remove masks indoors in areas inaccessible to passengers; designating areas as only accessible to fully vaccinated passengers and crew where masks and physical distancing are not required; advising passengers and crew on ships with 95% of crew and 95% of passengers who are fully vaccinated that they do not have to wear a mask or maintain physical distance in any areas. This change was based on the CDC’s guidance for fully vaccinated people and the increased transmissibility of some SARS-CoV-2 variants of concern,

Revised screening testing and documentation requirements for fully vaccinated passengers and those who are not fully vaccinated, for pre-embarkation, embarkation, and back-to-back sailing, for cruise ships operating under the CSO, including those choosing to follow CSO measures on a voluntary basis. This change was due to the increased transmissibility of some COVID-19 variants of concern, and evidence of breakthrough cases in fully vaccinated individuals,

Added language reflecting that, as of July 23, 2021, the CSO and accompanying measures, such as technical instructions, are nonbinding recommendations for cruise ships arriving in, located within, or departing from a port in Florida. However, CDC will continue to operate the CSO as a voluntary program for such ships should they choose to follow the CSO measures on a voluntary basis.

 

Click on the following link and then scroll down to Testing of Embarking and Disembarking Passengers for Restricted Voyages

 

COVID-19 Operations Manual for Simulated and Restricted Voyages under the Framework for Conditional Sailing Order | Quarantine | CDC

The changes are just following the data with Delta. Efficacy against serious illness is still quite high in the 90% range with Pfizer and Moderna around 80% with J&J. But down near 50% with asymptomatic and mild disease. Couple that with the high virus loads and transmission even from vaccinated individuals means vaccines are not enough by them selves against Delta.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

2 hours ago, zelker said:

Someone just started a thread with this NEW TESTING INFO from HAL FAQ's BUT nowhere does it say that the results are guaranteed to be back within 48 hrs.  Cautiously optimistic but need to do more research.

 

 

Where can I get a viral COVID-19 test near me?

For U.S. guests, Holland America Line has partnered with Quest Diagnostics to provide over 1,500 locations in the United States to schedule a no-cost* COVID COVID-19 test appointment, with results delivered within 48 hours. Click here to find a testing location near you.

 

You can also contact your nearest health center, pharmacy, state health department, or transiting airport to learn more about their availability for COVID-19 testing. 

 

* This COVID-19 no-cost-to-you program is available to eligible individuals for $0 out of pocket when billed to a health plan or the government.

 

 

I saw this yesterday and went through the Questions, for me it came up with two things, first was at this time they could not guarantee 48 hour results, then came back I did not qualify for the Free testing and they would not be able to assist me. I think this whole thing was a half baked way of HAL looking like they were helping with the covid tests. In reality it is just a smoke screen of no help at all. 

[mightycruisequeen]

3 hours ago, atexsix said:

Agree.  I didn't mean to imply it wasn't helpful, some positive tests will surely get weeded out and it's one less positive infecting the ship.  But people have whiplash from all the back n forth, the mask craziness alone has been like a tennis match, half the confusion came out of the CDC itself.  

 

I went and read the RCI thread and it sounds like the CDC's recommended testing window might narrow at some point, and I don't see how they can incorporate covid testing into the logistical endeavor of getting to a cruise port, a full day effort for many people, at least.  The current business model of booking flights, hotels, and transfers via the cruise line will need to be replaced with flying people in for the covid test and nothing else.  HAL's website is just plain annoying about it, "we are glad to know you are arriving pre-cruise to enjoy downtown Seattle....you can book an appointment and results are sent electronically within 2 days."  Yippee!!  So how's that going to work when people have to be on the ship in 1 day.  Really HAL?

 

I think they completely underestimated what was involved for the average passenger, it was poorly implemented, heck, I'm not even convinced they did even the minimal required research and vetting of such a process.  "They'll do it if they want to cruise bad enough" is probably what the suits were thinking....meanwhile the ships have averaged how much in capacity?

 

 

Yes, at some point, even the most diehard cruisers are going to look at this lunacy and just say "that's too many hoops to try to jump through," and cancel while they still can.

 

[Gracie115]

The guidelines do state fully vaccinated can use the "at home" test which does require some online work but results are immediate.  Perhaps that's why they reduced the time for fully vaccinated.

 

Who knows?

 

I think the CDC would be more than happy to have cruising shut down until Covid disappears completely, which, of course, it will never do.......so the end conclusion is obvious.

[CruiserBruce]

Having done two trips to Hawaii during Covid, and another just a month away, 72 hour testing is just not that hard. It takes a little research and effort. And note Hawaii doesn't pay for tests. And neither should HAL. If they choose to, that's fine. Note HAL  is billing insurance.

 

And I note HAL has not had a positive case, best I know. The protocol seems to be working. 

[sprinkles]

We would have cancelled our Mexico coming up in November.  However despite ourselves we took a casino offer and paid in full (non refundable).  Plus we also have airfare.   So at this point, planning/hoping to make it.  Going to order the Binax now home test.  Watched the video (posted “somewhere” on CC).  Planning on self isolating at home (not hard for us).  Then doing the video supervised tests on Friday morning .  If negative, print out results, then drive the three hours to Reno where we will be gambling, eating out, spending one night in a hotel, then flying out on Saturday morning to San Diego, for another day of possible exposures.

 

Then hopefully boarding the Koningsdam on Sunday.  Oh well, for the first time in almost two years I have a cruise to look forward to.  Although, We’re fully prepared for possible cancellation.

[Nymich]

16 minutes ago, sprinkles said:

  Going to order the Binax now home test.  Watched the video (posted “somewhere” on CC).  Planning on self isolating at home (not hard for us).  Then doing the video supervised tests on Friday morning . 

I could not find on HAL website where home tests are ok?   I am sure someone has the right info to steer me!

[Evilmuffin]

I understand that passengers must provide a negative COVID test within 3 days of Embarkation.   As per the CDC, those that have had COVID and recovered can still test positive up to 90 days so they just need to provide documentation of recovery.   If you are asymptomatic, is it possible that you have gotten COVID and just not known it?   It says that if you provide documentation of recovery, and are asympotmatic, and fully vaccinated,  you can sail.   Is this going to be allowed?    I was planning on just doing a self quarantine prior to embarkation to make sure I have the lowest chance of testing positive, but now i’m thinking I should find out if I ever had it and have just been asymptotic the whole time.   And are they allowed those who have recovered from COVID in the last 3 months but have the appropriate documentation?

[boze9999]

4 hours ago, Nymich said:

I could not find on HAL website where home tests are ok?   I am sure someone has the right info to steer me!

Home tests are ok as long as they are medically supervised by authorized agents of the testing lab. We've done them for Hawaii (the most strict) and have our's ordered for our HAL cruises through Costco/Azova. 

[12cruise2]

4 hours ago, boze9999 said:

Home tests are ok as long as they are medically supervised by authorized agents of the testing lab. We've done them for Hawaii (the most strict) and have our's ordered for our HAL cruises through Costco/Azova. 

Here's the quote from the Q&A for U.S. cruises:

Vaccinated guests may use a medically observed self-test (sometimes referred to as home test) that meets the following criteria: 

•  Only medically observed self-tests will be accepted.
• The test must be a SARS-CoV-2 viral test (nucleic acid amplification test [NAAT] or antigen test) with Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA). Please note, antigen tests are accepted for fully vaccinated guests, but not for unvaccinated guests. 

Additional Home Test criteria:

• The testing procedure must include a telehealth service affiliated with the manufacturer of the test that provides real-time supervision remotely through an audio and video connection. Some FDA-authorized self-tests that include a telehealth service may require a prescription.
• The telehealth provider must confirm the person’s identity, observe the specimen collection and testing procedures, confirm the test result, and issue a report that meets the requirements of acceptable proof of a negative, medically observed, viral COVID-19 test.

AND here is the Q&A itself link, hopefully--scroll down through it--for cruises from USA:

https://www.hollandamerica.com/en_US/worry-free-promise/travel-well/faq-for-cruises-from-usa.html

I have great luck using Google to search for a specific subject on Holland America. 

Edited August 30, 2021 by 12cruise2
added words

[12cruise2]

9 hours ago, Nymich said:

I could not find on HAL website where home tests are ok?   I am sure someone has the right info to steer me!

Nymich, see post #17.  I put the links there for you but quoted the wrong thread response so it won't alert you! 

[Colleen @ Sequim]

On 8/29/2021 at 1:25 PM, LAFFNVEGAS said:

I saw this yesterday and went through the Questions, for me it came up with two things, first was at this time they could not guarantee 48 hour results, then came back I did not qualify for the Free testing and they would not be able to assist me. I think this whole thing was a half baked way of HAL looking like they were helping with the covid tests. In reality it is just a smoke screen of no help at all. 

Following the link I learned that I would have to make a 3 hour trip from home for one of those "free" tests.

 

[zelker]

Carnival has just announced the following switch from 72 to 48 hour testing pre-cruise per CDC requirements.  HAL should be announcing it shortly, I'm sure.

 

Have Fun. Be Safe. | COVID-19 Guest Protocols | Carnival Cruise Line    ... and here's what it says specifically about timing ...

 

Effective with sailings as of September 13, 2021, the CDC requires pre-cruise testing for vaccinated guests to be taken within two days prior to the sailing date. If the sailing is on Saturday, the test may be taken on Thursday and Friday, and as late as Saturday, if you are guaranteed to receive your results in time for check-in.

 

[DWAliaschief]

I just emailed our PCC at HAL who is very good at getting information.  She said: "HAL has not made any changes …but apparently the requirements are being reviewed for all Brands." She will let us know when/if changes are made.  Given that this is a CDC recommendation, I would think that HAL will follow suit for cruises after Sept 13. 

Edited September 2, 2021 by DWAliaschief

[cal56girl]

1 hour ago, DWAliaschief said:

I just emailed our PCC at HAL who is very good at getting information.  She said: "HAL has not made any changes …but apparently the requirements are being reviewed for all Brands." She will let us know when/if changes are made.  Given that this is a CDC recommendation, I would think that HAL will follow suit for cruises after Sept 13. 

 

2 hours ago, zelker said:

Carnival has just announced the following switch from 72 to 48 hour testing pre-cruise per CDC requirements.  HAL should be announcing it shortly, I'm sure.

 

Have Fun. Be Safe. | COVID-19 Guest Protocols | Carnival Cruise Line    ... and here's what it says specifically about timing ...

 

Effective with sailings as of September 13, 2021, the CDC requires pre-cruise testing for vaccinated guests to be taken within two days prior to the sailing date. If the sailing is on Saturday, the test may be taken on Thursday and Friday, and as late as Saturday, if you are guaranteed to receive your results in time for check-in.

 

I made our appointments for the Wednesday before our cruise. I saw this on Carnival's site as you referenced. I needed to call and ask a different question, so I also also asked about this. Rep told me it's still three days for now, but I won't be surprised if it changes! This is so fluid right now!
Be safe everyone!

[nocl]

I wonder if the change is due to the interpretation of current rules being 3 days before the day of cruise, instead of 3 days (72 hours) before boarding.

[zelker]

37 minutes ago, nocl said:

I wonder if the change is due to the interpretation of current rules being 3 days before the day of cruise, instead of 3 days (72 hours) before boarding.

These are the new guidelines from the CDC (from the link I posted at the top of this thread):

 

Testing of Embarking and Disembarking Passengers for Simulated and Restricted Voyages

Note: This section applies to cruise ships operating under the CSO, including those choosing to follow CSO measures on a voluntary basis.

 

Screening Testing of All Embarking and Disembarking Passengers for Simulated and Restricted Voyages

Edited September 2, 2021 by zelker