QM2 USA

[ClipperinSFO]

So @kohl1957, while I certainly agree and sympathize with your point of view, I nevertheless remain filled with awe that it is 2021and we are still able to cross the Atlantic on a Cunarder.  Yes, it may be a bit too long a crossing, and formal nights are declining, and there is no West Side pier, or proper boat train, but still.  

 

We took a cruise through the Bahamas this last summer (Ok, we were desperate) and despite being on a v nice ship, it was jaw-dropingly underwhelming.  Nothing compares with the direct point-point purposeful crossing, despite all it small degradations.  The North Atlantic is still magical.    

Edited November 9, 2021 by ClipperinSFO
typo

[navybankerteacher]

On 11/9/2021 at 11:59 AM, ClipperinSFO said:

 

Agreed -- just doesn't seem like a proper TA unless the ship sails/arrives at the West Side piers!  No elegant procession up and down the Hudson.  <sigh>  

Yes - taking a ship to “New York” certainly can not mean going ashore in the State of New Jersey;  and going ashore in Kings County (Brooklyn)

is at least a wide cut below going ashore in New York County (Manhattan).

[penlady]

I have recently seen some post's  from people saying the QM2 will be using Port Liberty instead of Red Hook. I just got off the phone from Cunard and was assured it will not be using Port Liberty. It will continue to use Red Hook.

Edited November 10, 2021 by penlady

[Robaround]

I called Cunard last week about this (booked on the Christmas cruise), and while the agent indicated that it would be Brooklyn, he didn't come across as certain nor was I convinced - there was just something about the way he didn't have access to details that made me doubt him (particularly when I asked about what to expect with boarding, Covid testing, timing, etc.). I would be great if Cunard would post important planning details to the on-line booking details page on MyCunard.

 

[Lesanne]

Cunard line on Twitter confirmed QM2 will be docking at Brooklyn Cruise Terminal 

[tv24]

5 hours ago, Lesanne said:

Cunard line on Twitter confirmed QM2 will be docking at Brooklyn Cruise Terminal 

Good News.  Thanks for the post.

[Robaround]

12 hours ago, Lesanne said:

Cunard line on Twitter confirmed QM2 will be docking at Brooklyn Cruise Terminal 

Funny, I got a Twitter DM response from Cunard (took them over a week) saying that nothing could be confirmed at this time and that 21 days prior to sailing the MyCunard details would be updated.

[Host Hattie]

15 minutes ago, Robaround said:

Funny, I got a Twitter DM response from Cunard (took them over a week) saying that nothing could be confirmed at this time and that 21 days prior to sailing the MyCunard details would be updated.

When did you get that answer ? Their reply about Brooklyn was earlier today.

[david,Mississauga]

On 11/9/2021 at 1:54 PM, kohl1957 said:

That and the six minute taxi ride to Penn Station.  Back in the day, Red Hook waterfront was where the victims of the underworld were often found floating on the morning tide.  And whilst not quite as grim today, it's hardly a "Oh boy, were're in Manhattan Moment." Because you're not.

 

Our trans-Atlantic days are pretty much over... 5-6 days is perfect, 7 days is too much and the getting to/from the terminal is not Half the Fun.  Same on the other side where I still remember the Boat Train from Waterloo coming right alongside QE2 at the Ocean Terminal and it was just 5 days across. 

 

Sigh... indeed.

 

Sorry to read that you do not enjoy the 7-night crossings. There are only two things that would make me wish for shorter crossings. One would be the lower fares. The other would be the possibility of more crossings per year.

 

I also miss the boat trains in Southampton.

 

For a few years the QM2 made the occasional call at Halifax en route to or from New York. This made a round trip crossing very civilised. No offence to New Yorkers, but I have no interest in dealing with that port twice on one holiday, especially the flights between Toronto and New York and the immigration procedures. Disembarking in Halifax (which we did last in 2014) was totally stress-free. There  is decent, albeit not daily, train service from there to Montreal and Toronto.

[Robaround]

20 hours ago, Host Hattie said:

When did you get that answer ? Their reply about Brooklyn was earlier today.

Day before yesterday 🤷‍♂️

[kmerlin14]

On 11/12/2021 at 7:53 PM, david,Mississauga said:

 

 

 

For a few years the QM2 made the occasional call at Halifax en route to or from New York. This made a round trip crossing very civilised. No offence to New Yorkers, but I have no interest in dealing with that port twice on one holiday, especially the flights between Toronto and New York and the immigration procedures. Disembarking in Halifax (which we did last in 2014) was totally stress-free. There  is decent, albeit not daily, train service from there to Montreal and Toronto.

We just booked the cruise from Quebec to New York and my TA told me that, at the moment, they are not allowing variances, so we don't have the option of disembarking in Halifax if things are looking grim in New York. It would be so convenient.

[navybankerteacher]

On 11/12/2021 at 6:53 PM, david,Mississauga said:

 

Sorry to read that you do not enjoy the 7-night crossings. There are only two things that would make me wish for shorter crossings. One would be the lower fares. The other would be the possibility of more crossings per year.

 

I also miss the boat trains in Southampton.

 

For a few years the QM2 made the occasional call at Halifax en route to or from New York. This made a round trip crossing very civilised. No offence to New Yorkers, but I have no interest in dealing with that port twice on one holiday, especially the flights between Toronto and New York and the immigration procedures. Disembarking in Halifax (which we did last in 2014) was totally stress-free. There  is decent, albeit not daily, train service from there to Montreal and Toronto.

Agreed - it is hard to understand the notion that while “..5-6 days is perfect, 7 days is too much…”. How can one day change “perfect” to “too much”?
 

If I’m in a hurry, even the old 4 or 5 days would have been too much, making flying preferable.  Now, with more time available, things can be more civilized - making an extra stop in Halifax , Hamburg or France an enhancement, not a bother.

[exlondoner]

5 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

Agreed - it is hard to understand the notion that while “..5-6 days is perfect, 7 days is too much…”. How can one day change “perfect” to “too much”?
 

 

Well, it certainly works with glasses of wine. x glasses is perfect, x+1 much too much. 😀 Days at sea might be similar.

[navybankerteacher]

1 hour ago, exlondoner said:

 

Well, it certainly works with glasses of wine. x glasses is perfect, x+1 much too much. 😀 Days at sea might be similar.

Going from “perfect” to “too much” is kind of a leap— avoiding the middle ground (consider “acceptable”) which should lie between any pair of extremes.

 

Also, when it comes to wine, wouldn’t “too much” come between “perfect” and “much too much”?    Unless you would also claim that a tenth oh an ounce below “perfect” would be “totally inadequate”.

[navybankerteacher]

Since traveling by ship is now an option rather than a necessity (as back when it was the only way to get across the Atlantic), Cunard is providing an optional, leisure activity.  They have to appeal to their market - a large segment of which thinks of a cruise as a seven days activity;  additionally, they have to mind the costs:  fuel consumption on a five day crossing would be significantly higher than on a seven day crossing - making marketing the product somewhat tougher if they wanted the same net return.

[shippmates]

Our thoughts on a 7 day crossing or cruise is too short.  The longer and the more sea days the better.  We enjoy the ship and the relaxation of just watching the ocean go by.  Our next sailing on QM2 is 23 days which 14 of them are sea days.

[Lakesregion]

If 6 - 7 days is too much for a TA what do you all think about the start of the 2023 world cruise. Leaving out of NYC on Jan 3 for an 8 day arrival in Southampton? 

[navybankerteacher]

1 hour ago, kohl1957 said:

"W.N.A."  Winter North Atlantic.  5 days or 21 .... no thanks.

 

If QM2's planned schedule actually takes place, it will include the first North Atlantic winter crossings on the UK-NY route  (proper ones, not "positioning" or segments of a world cruise) since R.M.S. QUEEN ELIZABETH in... 1968.  RAFFAELLO made the last regularly scheduled winter crossing of the North Atlantic in 1975 (in March... her last in fact) but that, at least was to/from the Mediterranean.  Southampton-NY in January is frozen salt spray and that bedside lamp rattling all the way across. 

 

I love days at sea. But like the ones I enjoyed en route to Cape Town in CENTAUR and ST. HELENA... day after day of cloudless skies and reasonably smooth seas.  Southampton to New York in January... alas the averages are not encouraging. 

What is the real difference between a 7 day crossing in January from New York to Southampton on which some passengers may have been continuing from a Caribbean itinerary, and others may have boarded with intention to stay on board after Southampton, and a 7 day crossing in January with all passengers having just boarded in New York and intending to debark upon arrival in Southampton?

 

The likely fact is that there may never be such a "proper" crossing (as you seem to revere) because there is always a likelihood that some passengers might be on a round trip.

 

Insisting that there is any significant difference is a close-to-perfect example of pettifoggery.

[RICHARD@SEA]

5 Day crossings were wonderful on QE2....one could cross one way, have 2-3 days in London or Paris(SS FRANCE) all in a one  week holiday.  the crossing in & of themselves are relaxing but 7 days at sea & then flying home or a 14 day RT is a bit much(& I love the ocean & ships).

As far as the ships themselves - anyone that sailed on QE2 & FrRANCE or Italian Line know the difference between those ships & QM2 as far as design & how they handled the North Atlantic.

My last sailing on QE2 was part of the world cruise(2002) & sailing out of NYC in January was fabulous.  On the second day we did hit rough seas & the ship leaned a bit starboard & stayed that way - glasses, furniture & a few people slid sideways - but then the ship continued sailing beautifully, slicing through the  waves - a sailors dream.  QM2 may handle the seas by its shear size but certainly not as graceful.

As far as economics - Carnivore's Cunard may slow QM2 down to stretch the crossing to 7days - same fuel amount probably(or less) but passengers are onboard longer which translates to more spending onboard.

Ive sailed QM2 3x - all cruises - I enjoy the ship but she's no QE2.

[ClipperinSFO]

As one who grew up reading "A Night to Remember" and books by John Maxtone-Graham, and who made his first crossing on the QE2 at age 20, I am loving these exchanges about what makes a proper TA.  Nevertheless, the line "There's no sense asking if the air is good if there is nothing else to breathe" from The Lion in Winter does come to mind. 

[david,Mississauga]

On 11/14/2021 at 7:05 PM, kmerlin14 said:

We just booked the cruise from Quebec to New York and my TA told me that, at the moment, they are not allowing variances, so we don't have the option of disembarking in Halifax if things are looking grim in New York. It would be so convenient.

 

When we decided we wanted to disembark in Halifax our TA was told that it was not possible and we must go to New York. Our TA was a man of great experience with ships and he said he would go "up the ladder". In the meantime I enquired of the Canadian Immigration service if there would be a problem. The senior advisor I was put through to in Ottawa said Cunard's position was nonsense. He said a Canadian passport holder has an absolute right to enter the country at any port and no airline or cruise line can say no. 

 

By the time I told our TA this he had already found a more senior person who couldn't understand why the reservation department said no. By the time the QM2 reached Halifax there were 30 passengers who wanted to leave there.  (I know I mentioned this before on a previous discussion of the subject.) At tea one afternoon we met a couple from Halifax who had been told the same as we were originally. They were not happy to have to go to New York then return to Halifax. I told them our story and they went to the purser's office and it was all sorted.

 

We are on the Quebec-NY voyage next year and we may or may not disembark in Halifax. It is too early to make that decision.

[bluemarble]

17 minutes ago, david,Mississauga said:

We are on the Quebec-NY voyage next year and we may or may not disembark in Halifax. It is too early to make that decision.

 

@david,Mississauga, you may already be aware of this, but apparently Canada has cabotage laws similar to the US which place restrictions on non-Canadian shipping lines transporting passengers from one Canadian port to another. It has been the subject of considerable discussion over on the Viking board.

 

A customer booked two consecutive Great Lakes voyages with Viking. The first voyage was from Thunder Bay to Milwaukee and the second voyage continued on from Milwaukee to Toronto. Viking eventually realized it was a violation to let someone book what was essentially a voyage from one Canadian port to another, Thunder Bay to Toronto.

 

Just wanted to make you aware of what I've been reading in case you get any pushback requesting to disembark in Halifax after embarking in Quebec. There might be Canadian regulations making it difficult to get permission for that scenario.

[david,Mississauga]

11 hours ago, kohl1957 said:

Oh, if I were in Cunard scheduling department (after these two years,  I suspect they may have some early retirements), I'd schedule QM2 on a nice 28-day Southampton-St. Lawrence-Quebec-Halifax-Boston-Southampton roundtrip that would be, I suspect, an instant sell-out not to mention celebrate all of the historic Cunard associations with Halifax, Boston and the St. Lawrence route.  I recall the old ORIANA (1960) do a similar cruise back in the early 1980s that was very popular.  The St. Lawrence route is simply delightful, fondly recalled on several crossings in the wonderful STEFAN BATORY and Halifax, too, is port city rich in history and interest.  Samuel Cunard, I am told, was rather fond of the place, too, being his birthplace. 

 

There is normally an annual 28-day voyage similar to the one you suggest. It is also available in segments of 7 nights or more: Southampton-NY-Québec-NY-Southampton. We have taken Québec-NY once and Québec-NY-Southampton once.

 

By co-incidence we were in Halifax with a number of friends on our annual visit - by train not on a cruise - when Sir Samuel's statue was unveiled the first time. A few years later we made a point of being in Halifax for the inaugural Canadian arrival of the QE. The statue had been moved a short distance and was re-dedicated. A young descendant of Sir Samuel cut the ribbon. One of the speakers was Capt. Wells. 

[david,Mississauga]

12 hours ago, bluemarble said:

...

 

Just wanted to make you aware of what I've been reading in case you get any pushback requesting to disembark in Halifax after embarking in Quebec. There might be Canadian regulations making it difficult to get permission for that scenario.

 

I will have to get the TA to look into this. Although aware of "cabotage" restrictions regarding cargo, I feared there might be an impediment for passenger ships. Our previous disembarkation in Halifax was from a crossing from Southampton so obviously  that was not an issue.

 

There is a promising passage in scholarlycommons.law.case.edu:  (It will not do a copy and paste so I will type it) "Since the Treaty of Paris in in 1763, all British ships (all vessels registered in the Commonwealth) have been permitted to engage in the Canadian coasting trade whether registered in Canada or elsewhere in the Commonwealth." There is a reference to the Royal Commission on the Coasting Trade - 1957.

 

This article is not as promising:

 

https://maritimetrades.org/canadas-coasting-trade-act/

 

This is the Act:

 

https://lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-33.3/FullText.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

[kmerlin14]

On 11/16/2021 at 10:16 PM, david,Mississauga said:

 

We are on the Quebec-NY voyage next year and we may or may not disembark in Halifax. It is too early to make that decision.

...And my sister just sent me the save-the-date for my niece's wedding. Oct 2nd, 2022. Hopefully I can move to another cruise when the new ones come out. FYI, the Air Canada Rouge premium would give you access to their lounge in New York and the fare looked relatively reasonable. I was seriously considering booking it.