Caribbean Quarantine

[free from work]

14 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

Yes Jim, the insurance falls down on removal of passengers with a negative test and that is what we are asking P&O/Carnival companies to deal with.  They are aware you cannot insure for this scenario although it's only because I told them in late September.  Unfortunately they did not take it onboard until we had what I term the "Cadiz Situation". They have assured it is now high on the agenda and they will resolve it.

 

At present there is no protocol ruie for P&O/Cunard to assist the "uninsured" people financially with quarantine, testing, food, repatriation costs. They have however confirmed that those who have fallen foul of the port offloading situation are not out of pocket and they have assisted them.  We are asking the cruise lines to incorporate this help as a guarantee in their protocols to match RCI/Celebrity.

 

I hope this makes it clearer.

 

Passengers testing positive who are debarked are fully covered under the medical section of their insurance and have no financial liability aside from their policy excess.

 

Cruisemeister2002: if you and your wife test positive and are removed from the ship your insurance will cover you.  This is why it is essential to have the best possible policy you can buy - I recall you have Staysure and they are most certainly one of the best. If however one of you tests positive and the other doesn't only the positive test passenger will be paid out under the insurance policy.

Thank you for the update. I hadn't been aware that P&O had been making the "good will" payments where the insurance company was declining cover. That is at least a step in the right direction. 

 

Thanks again for your efforts. 

 

Jim 

[Adawn47]

On 11/15/2021 at 4:19 PM, Megabear2 said:

At the end of the day if a port or country is determined that Covid passengers should be offloaded then there is nothing any cruise line can do to override that decision. 

I may be dim, but I can't for the life of me understand why they would want covid positive passengers offloading in their port or country. I would have thought they would prefer the ship to keep them quarantined safely aboard, or am I missing something?

Avril

[Splice the mainbrace]

13 minutes ago, Adawn47 said:

I may be dim, but I can't for the life of me understand why they would want covid positive passengers offloading in their port or country. I would have thought they would prefer the ship to keep them quarantined safely aboard, or am I missing something?

Avril

 

That's exactly what I think, doesn't make sense to me.

[Dermotsgirl]

23 minutes ago, Adawn47 said:

I may be dim, but I can't for the life of me understand why they would want covid positive passengers offloading in their port or country. I would have thought they would prefer the ship to keep them quarantined safely aboard, or am I missing something?

Avril

Thinking cynically, it sounds like a smokescreen to put the ‘blame’ for offloading on the port, and not the cruise company. 

[yorkshirephil]

25 minutes ago, Adawn47 said:

I may be dim, but I can't for the life of me understand why they would want covid positive passengers offloading in their port or country. I would have thought they would prefer the ship to keep them quarantined safely aboard, or am I missing something?

Avril

They need to fill their hotels 😉

[terrierjohn]

46 minutes ago, Splice the mainbrace said:

 

That's exactly what I think, doesn't make sense to me.

+1

[terrierjohn]

36 minutes ago, Dermotsgirl said:

Thinking cynically, it sounds like a smokescreen to put the ‘blame’ for offloading on the port, and not the cruise company. 

I hope Moley will be along to correct your cynicism.

[Dermotsgirl]

25 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

I hope Moley will be along to correct your cynicism.

Not necessarily my cynicism, just a general comment of how it could be construed.

 

As P&O aren’t currently being exactly open and transparent I’m currently on the fence about who is making the offloading decisions 

[Cruisemeister2002]

On 11/15/2021 at 9:59 AM, molecrochip said:

Yes - all meeting rules of the Caribbean islands. P&O's only requirement is the LFT before boarding.

 

If you are on a no-fly cruise to the Caribbean, I believe you have to have a PCR test on board, with results known before arriving in to your half-way stop - be it Maderia, Azores, canaries etc. Any positive cases are then debarked in that island stop.

You are correct. Originally I thought it was just if you were flying into Barbados. But I checked on the Government website, which in turn has a link to other destinations in the Caribbean. I believe that you need a PCR test carried out onboard at least 5 days prior to whichever Caribbean Island you are due at. There is a cost of £25 per person.

[Cruisemeister2002]

2 hours ago, Dermotsgirl said:

Not necessarily my cynicism, just a general comment of how it could be construed.

 

As P&O aren’t currently being exactly open and transparent I’m currently on the fence about who is making the offloading decisions 

P&O claim as would any cruise line that they have no power over a Country enforcing the quarantining of a passenger/passengers. I do believe however that they have to inform the next port of call should positive tests come to light. I would assume, hopefully, that should the next port of call authorities not wish to debark these passengers then P&O would not insist on that happening and as such you would therefore be covered via your insurance company as it's deemed "Isolation" rather than being put ashore and "Quarantined"

[Megabear2]

5 hours ago, Cruisemeister2002 said:

P&O claim as would any cruise line that they have no power over a Country enforcing the quarantining of a passenger/passengers. I do believe however that they have to inform the next port of call should positive tests come to light. I would assume, hopefully, that should the next port of call authorities not wish to debark these passengers then P&O would not insist on that happening and as such you would therefore be covered via your insurance company as it's deemed "Isolation" rather than being put ashore and "Quarantined"

 

8 hours ago, Splice the mainbrace said:

 

That's exactly what I think, doesn't make sense to me.

The positive test people are covered by insurance whether in isolation on the ship or ashore in hotel quarantine or hospital. Of those offloaded positive a number have ended up in hospital.  I assume the ports prefer to have the positive passengers ashore in case of need for serious medical intervention. People deteriorate rapidly so could be caution.

[Interestedcruisefan]

On 11/15/2021 at 4:40 PM, free from work said:

Hi Megabear2. 

 

I must have missed this information but when did P&O confirm that no one will be out of pocket due to offloading? I thought that this was why they were insisting on everyone being insured. 

 

Jim

When cruise lines insisted specific Covid insurance was needed by all passengers it's clear to me they were only concerned about covering the financial risks of themselves and not the passengers 

 

It's become abundantly clear they never even considered the potential ongoing issues and costs for their passengers and close contacts once offloaded 

[Interestedcruisefan]

Sadly I thnk we are going to be hearing a lot of bad news stories about passengers being offloaded and quarantine in the Caribbean in the  next few months

 

It's inevitable

 

Longer cruises, long flights getting there are bound to lead to Covid outbreaks and significant spread 

 

 

[Megabear2]

UK customers have always had to have cruise insurance and the purpose of it was to cover all expenses for passenger and cruise line. The cruiser never thought about what the policy covered aside from the obvious medical, cancellation, lost luggage etc. but hidden in the small print of the policies and the terms and conditions were the clauses covering the cruise lines losses as well.  The protection was there but most of us didn't care because we could not see a circumstance where we would use it.

 

The "new" rule regarding this being obligatory has only come to light due to there having been no travel insurance available for Covid for any form of travel until early this year.  Staysure were the first to introduce "covid cover" policies with very limited cover early this year. The other companies have slowly followed. We are looking at insurance from a cruise perspective whereas the underwriters are looking at the entire travel market and the products they are offering are actually more than adequate for those markets. The "problem" is actually ours, not the insurance companies.  We cannot force them to underwrite a risk if they don't wish to anymore than we can tell our local supermarket it has to stock a specific food we like but no one else wants to buy.

 

The most we can do is ask our service providers (the cruise lines) to sort out how they will deal with the problem.  We have asked, they have said they're listening and on the case meaning we can do little more.  It should be remembered that we are only dealing with P&O/Cunard so all the other cruise lines are not even looking at the problem.  You can see how long it's taking with just these two, changing the mindset of Fred, Marella, NCL etc would be virtually a full time job and individuals just wont have the time. The cruise lines know this so aren't too bothered - if you don't buy their holiday someone else probably will.

 

At the end of the day there is no guarantee you won't get tested and offloaded and the best we can hope for is the "Buyer Beware" clause in the protocols and a promise that the cruise line will help you financially if the worst happens. 

 

As I keep saying, it's a personal risk assessment on how you feel about taking a cruise or anything else.  As an example, I am travelling to Austria for Christmas to see friends. Austria currently has the worst Covid infection rate in Europe and has a diabolical record on how it handled shutdown at the start of the pandemic (currently being sued in a class action by hundreds of tourists), however I've decided to travel and take my chances on lockdowns and quarantine. That's my informed choice, I can't blame anyone else if it all goes wrong.  The same applies to taking a cruise in the Covid world.  Individual responsibility is our own, the product is being offered, we decide if its suitable and buy accordingly.

[Interestedcruisefan]

However, when you read that you must have specific Covid insurance to be allowed on board and then follow a link provided by cruise lines to pay extra for it to their recommended supplier 

 

Then it's pretty  reasonable to assume that you are now covered for any Covid eventualities and the insurance is worth paying for etc

 

As you assume the cruise lines have your best interests at heart when recommending cruise insurance

 

Clearly we were wrong to assume that

 

They've not looked any further than covering their risks 

 

We are actually being forced to pay extra to cover the financial risks of the cruise lines rather than ourselves

 

Ie the costs incurred if they have to unload you  at any stage 

 

The knock on effects of the offloading are our own risk whilst the cruise heads off to the next destination having shed the problem

 

That's why when you ask them "what if" questions they don't have any answers

 

Even now !

 

They simply didn't care about what happened next once their own financial risks were covered 

 

Am I wrong?

Edited November 18, 2021 by Interestedcruisefan

[wowzz]

42 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

However, when you read that you must have specific Covid insurance to be allowed on board and then follow a link provided by cruise lines to pay extra for it to their recommended supplier 

 

Then it's pretty  reasonable to assume that you are now covered for any Covid eventualities and the insurance is worth paying for etc

 

As you assume the cruise lines have your best interests at heart when recommending cruise insurance

 

Clearly we were wrong to assume that

 

They've not looked any further than covering their risks 

 

We are actually being forced to pay extra to cover the financial risks of the cruise lines rather than ourselves

 

Ie the costs incurred if they have to unload you  at any stage 

 

The knock on effects of the offloading are our own risk whilst the cruise heads off to the next destination having shed the problem

 

That's why when you ask them "what if" questions they don't have any answers

 

Even now !

 

They simply didn't care about what happened next once their own financial risks were covered 

 

Am I wrong?

Megabear is the expert on this,  but in simple terms the cruise companies did not realise that

1. Passengers who did not have Covid could be made by local port authorities to disembark and quarantine. 

2. The insurance companies would not pay out in those circumstances. 

The entire focus  was on insuring those who contracted Covid. The thought that non Covid cruisers would not be covered was not considered,  either by the cruise lines, or, I would suggest,  most cruisers.

Whilst I do not wish to be an advocate for the likes of  P&O,  I do believe that this is a case of an initial lack of awareness, rather than financial mendacity.

However,  I agree that by now some sort of resolution should have been reached. 

[Manx buoy]

9 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Megabear is the expert on this,  but in simple terms the cruise companies did not realise that

1. Passengers who did not have Covid could be made by local port authorities to disembark and quarantine. 

2. The insurance companies would not pay out in those circumstances. 

The entire focus  was on insuring those who contracted Covid. The thought that non Covid cruisers would not be covered was not considered,  either by the cruise lines, or, I would suggest,  most cruisers.

Whilst I do not wish to be an advocate for the likes of  P&O,  I do believe that this is a case of an initial lack of awareness, rather than financial mendacity.

However,  I agree that by now some sort of resolution should have been reached. 

They seem to be taking a long time to make some kind of statement on this issue I hope they don’t think people are going to forget about it if they drag their heels

[free from work]

26 minutes ago, Manx buoy said:

They seem to be taking a long time to make some kind of statement on this issue I hope they don’t think people are going to forget about it if they drag their heels

Tomorrow is 28 days since Natasha responded to my original email to Paul Ludlow. As this is the timescale P&O state ABTA allow for dealing with complaints I am expecting a reply of some sort. I imagine it will be another complaint holding letter. 

 

If nothing arrives by close of business tomorrow I will chase Natasha for a response. 

 

Jim 

[wowzz]

35 minutes ago, Manx buoy said:

They seem to be taking a long time to make some kind of statement on this issue I hope they don’t think people are going to forget about it if they drag their heels

No chance of that with Megabear on the case.  As was noted in another thread,  P&O have been deluged with comments about this issue.  I assume all those worried enough to post here, will already have contacted P&O,  as per Megabear's request a week or so ago. 

[Interestedcruisefan]

2 hours ago, wowzz said:

No chance of that with Megabear on the case.  As was noted in another thread,  P&O have been deluged with comments about this issue.  I assume all those worried enough to post here, will already have contacted P&O,  as per Megabear's request a week or so ago. 

They are hoping the problem will just go away

[Interestedcruisefan]

3 hours ago, wowzz said:

Megabear is the expert on this,  but in simple terms the cruise companies did not realise that

1. Passengers who did not have Covid could be made by local port authorities to disembark and quarantine. 

2. The insurance companies would not pay out in those circumstances. 

The entire focus  was on insuring those who contracted Covid. The thought that non Covid cruisers would not be covered was not considered,  either by the cruise lines, or, I would suggest,  most cruisers.

Whilst I do not wish to be an advocate for the likes of  P&O,  I do believe that this is a case of an initial lack of awareness, rather than financial mendacity.

However,  I agree that by now some sort of resolution should have been reached. 

Not only should there be a resolution 

 

But more importantly immediately they became aware of the issue there should have been information warning their customers what they wouldn't be covered for with the insurance for covid

 

Be upfront and honest

 

Of course they realise that would impact bookings though

 

So rather than risk that it's left to customers to unknowingly take the risks instead

 

Rest assured if 28 plus days ago they were made aware of an issue that was a significant  financial risk to the cruise line that they hadnt been previously aware of then they would have sorted a resolution within a few days 

 

 

Edited November 18, 2021 by Interestedcruisefan

[Megabear2]

Just spoken to my contact. Meeting being held 12.00pm today, announcement and new terms and conditions soon after. 

[seapals2]

No news on this … ????

When the Covid problem occurred on Diamond Princess many passengers got ill through being exposed to the virus because passengers were kept onboard in quarantine.  They have been severely criticised for taking this wrong decision. 
However now we have proper rapid testing it’s really hard to understand that passengers can be removed who never test positive in isolation.  When at home no one is even expected to isolate even if a member of their family tests positive.  I can understand isolating on a ship for 5 days and have daily testing. We have the test to release option here in the UK on day 5 for none vaccinated travellers returning to the UK.  

We have had the required booster and although there remains a risk of infection we would be devastated to leave the ship testing negative and well.  Surely that’s what vaccination is all about .. minimising the risk making it unlikely to get ill. 
Its going to make us very antisocial onboard. .. we are unlikely to share a table or spend time on a tour bus.  I can think of occasions on our last Canaries cruise when the lift was packed to capacity particularly as the show finished.  However we have no control over the coach transfer from the airport or indeed the flight itself.  Testing immediately before getting on the plane should ensure this is very unlikely but in theory still possible. 
 

[Megabear2]

I am told the resolution is imminent however I must emphasise that the comfort being sought is that if negative passengers are forced into quarantine by a port or direct contact P&O will assist with costs and repatriation and the passengers will not suffer financial loss.  It will still be essential to have the most thorough travel insurance you can and for claims to be made if possible, ie where a positive PCR test occurs.  This of course should be fully covered by your insurance and assumedly P&O will help with the necessary access etc to liaise with your insurer.  The protection sought from P&O/Cunard is for the uninsurable events.

 

 I am a little alarmed that people are possibly expecting more than that.  The situation will remain that the cruise line and ports will be able to offload passengers if it is deemed medically necessary for the safety of the ship, crew and passengers (rememberthey have always had this right, it's not a new thing it's just that due to Covid we are now more acutely aware of the risk). 

 

With the best will in the world I do not believe the cruise lines can be expected to have control over government and legal entities. We already know they have said wherever possible they will keep passengers quarantined on the ship.  I would guess every case is looked at individually but my own personal view is that anyone actually unwell with a positive PCR test should expect in most cases to be offloaded at the port.  It was already discussed on the now locked Covid on Iona thread that sick people can deteriorate rapidly and as a result caution will become the byword.

 

I reiterate it is for the individual to decide if they want to take this risk. 

[tring]

3 hours ago, seapals2 said:

No news on this … ????

When the Covid problem occurred on Diamond Princess many passengers got ill through being exposed to the virus because passengers were kept onboard in quarantine.  They have been severely criticised for taking this wrong decision. 
However now we have proper rapid testing it’s really hard to understand that passengers can be removed who never test positive in isolation.  When at home no one is even expected to isolate even if a member of their family tests positive.  I can understand isolating on a ship for 5 days and have daily testing. We have the test to release option here in the UK on day 5 for none vaccinated travellers returning to the UK.  

We have had the required booster and although there remains a risk of infection we would be devastated to leave the ship testing negative and well.  Surely that’s what vaccination is all about .. minimising the risk making it unlikely to get ill. 
Its going to make us very antisocial onboard. .. we are unlikely to share a table or spend time on a tour bus.  I can think of occasions on our last Canaries cruise when the lift was packed to capacity particularly as the show finished.  However we have no control over the coach transfer from the airport or indeed the flight itself.  Testing immediately before getting on the plane should ensure this is very unlikely but in theory still possible. 
 

 

They may well be the requirements in the UK, but what is being discussed on this thread is not ships sailing in British waters, so I do not see the relevance of your post.  Other countries have much stricter requirements than the UK.