Why are Yacht Club deposits non-refundable?

[Stockjock]

I know that different countries have different rules, but here in the U.S., many or most deposits are refundable until a certain cutoff date.  I was considering booking Yacht Club one of these days, but surprised to learn that YC deposits are non-refundable.  Any idea as to why that is?

[alyssamma]

16 minutes ago, Stockjock said:

I know that different countries have different rules, but here in the U.S., many or most deposits are refundable until a certain cutoff date.  I was considering booking Yacht Club one of these days, but surprised to learn that YC deposits are non-refundable.  Any idea as to why that is?

It's a (relatively) recent change. Makes no sense to me...especially since they are sailing with such low capacity...it seems like it would stop some people (you?) from booking.

 

Personally I would only book if I was within the 90 (120?) day range when final payment was due.

 

With port changes happening all the time and other crazy things (wear a mask, don't wear a mask, test at the port, don't test at the port, etc.), I want the flexibility to cancel if need be.

[Fogfog]

Highly desirable…limited capacity..

That’s my guess.

 

Stockjock, I thought you didn’t like MSC based on other threads posted

[tweakes]

Especially with the COVID protections, it's so easy to move the sailing to another cruise if you want to (new sailing does not have to be in YC, but deposit remains non-refundable no matter what type of cabin is booked). We booked for December in YC and if something happens I know we will easily be able to switch it out to something we are able to do. 

 

I also noticed the small print that some US sailings have non-refundable deposits as well. Not sure if this is something they're going to start implementing or if that statement was always there? Maybe to book certain promotions the deposit will start to be non-refundable. 

[alyssamma]

1 hour ago, Fogfog said:

Highly desirable…limited capacity..

Ships have been sailing pretty empty lately...

[alyssamma]

32 minutes ago, tweakes said:

Especially with the COVID protections, it's so easy to move the sailing to another cruise if you want to (new sailing does not have to be in YC, but deposit remains non-refundable no matter what type of cabin is booked). We booked for December in YC and if something happens I know we will easily be able to switch it out to something we are able to do. 

 

I also noticed the small print that some US sailings have non-refundable deposits as well. Not sure if this is something they're going to start implementing or if that statement was always there? Maybe to book certain promotions the deposit will start to be non-refundable. 

It's easy to move the cruise, but not always easy to move other things - airfare, time off from work (especially if traveling with a group), etc.

 

It really makes no sense to do this...if I book a cruise for 2yrs from now, I should be able to cancel a year out. I would have no problem with them changing the "no refund" date to like 6mo out or something, but non-refundable from the start is kind of crazy.

 

Or, do like RCCL/X does and charge a lower price for non-refundable (lol, or the *normal* price and a surcharge for refundable).

[Fogfog]

1 hour ago, alyssamma said:

Ships have been sailing pretty empty lately...

We are b2b2b2b

and next sailing will be about 1500 pax

Still, YC is desirable….no reason to make changes to policy

[alyssamma]

42 minutes ago, Fogfog said:

We are b2b2b2b

and next sailing will be about 1500 pax

Still, YC is desirable….no reason to make changes to policy

Well, I will say this...msc ships including YC are sailing at lower capacity than the other major lines. Pre covid maybe, but now it seems stupid to have a policy like this.

 

I just booked a YIN for April, and got an upgrade offer today. The LOWEST amount I could bid is what it would have cost me to book it outright...that seems kind of silly.

[Stockjock]

4 hours ago, Fogfog said:

Highly desirable…limited capacity..

That’s my guess.

 

Stockjock, I thought you didn’t like MSC based on other threads posted

The 2 cruise lines we normally sail on are Celebrity and MSC.  We love the service, food and overall experience on Celebrity the best.

But, MSC offers a compelling value that can be hard to beat, especially given the newness of their ships.  Most the my concerns revolve around a lack of customer service that usually occurs off of the ship.  It's not usually the agents' fault, but more systemic issues, in my view.  Agents are often not empowered to resolve problems and must go to Italy (or wherever), and that's where things get wonky.  You may be aware that there are a decent number of travel agents who refuse to work with MSC, and I think that tends to support this view.

I've done a thread called MSC Comedy of Errors that describes some of my experiences and the experiences of others.  No cruise lines are perfect, but there are customer service issues within MSC that could be improved upon.

But generally, we enjoy the onboard experience and pricing.  We are doing a 10 night European summer sailing with an aft balcony, drink package, some OBC and wi-fi for about $1,000 per person.  I couldn't touch that price on Celebrity, despite the superior food, service onboard and pre-cruise, etc.

And at some point, I would like to try YC.  In a couple of years, my GF has a milestone birthday coming up, and I've considered doing YC as a birthday gift.  I loosely considered doing YC on this upcoming sailing, but don't like the fact that my deposit would be non-refundable.

Edited February 11, 2022 by Stockjock

[cruiseguyinorl]

The talk of non-refundable deposits started many years ago during a discussion that I and several other large volume TA's for MSC had with their VP of Global Sales who was in town from Geneva. He presented his concern that a large number of people would book YC a year or two out then go to cancel at final payment time. This caused two problems. One for TA's being that clients who wanted to book a YC now were seeing them sold out for sailings far in the future. And obviously for MSC, a loss of revenue if those cabins that canceled did not resell as they generate a large amount of revenue even with the limited number cabins. Plus, they couldn't put those cabins on sale as it would devalue the YC product.

So the question became, how do you not tie up the inventory because of a small deposit that can be refunded. He had two answers. One was the non-refundable deposits that we are now seeing today. That effectively reduces that cancellation rate to a negligible amount. His second was to charge an exorbitantly high amount for YC deposits because typically speaking, the more money someone has invested, the less likely they are to cancel.

Now please don't take any of this as defense of the policy. Just trying to help out in understanding how it came about.  From the business side, it is a good idea. From the consumer side, it remains to be seen. As a consumer, I guess it helps that more YC inventory will theoretically be available. Obviously those that wish to cancel for a covered reason and have travel insurance, will get their money back. Those that are cancelling for non-covered reasons are the exact ones this new policy is targeting anyway.

Technically, the wording of non-refundable YC deposits has appeared on confirmations for a long time. Only recently did it become enforced. Still not saying I agree with it, though I understand why it has finally happened.

Bret

[phissy]

I can see the logic of everyone booking YC, with the intentions of "Maybe" sailing and not having availability for those looking to cruise.

 I thought one of the strategies was to extend the final pay/ deposit 

refund date to 120 days out for YC bookings. Looks like they went with 60 days.

 

I would hope that MSC use some common sense when deciding to enforce this policy.

With the slew of cancellations and changes to bookings, this does NOT seem like a black and white issue.

We had YC cruise booked   a year ago,  for  Mediterranean.  

Was to sail this October. 12 day cruise. No communication from MSC or TA.

Only our RollCall noticed that our cruise was gone from schedule.

I looked up our Booking and MSC changed us to different ship, date and itinerary .  Now a 7 day cruise for same cruise fare. That, along with the other changes, made it a NO GO for us.

 

Contacted TA and said we were not happy with our cruise cancellation and that MSC put us on alternate cruise without our knowledge. 

Asked that our booking be cancelled.  He agreed with our logic and was able to get cancellation and refund of our deposit.

I guess YMMV, depending on who is handling this.

 

[Fogfog]

2 hours ago, alyssamma said:

Well, I will say this...msc ships including YC are sailing at lower capacity than the other major lines. Pre covid maybe, but now it seems stupid to have a policy like this.

 

I just booked a YIN for April, and got an upgrade offer today. The LOWEST amount I could bid is what it would have cost me to book it outright...that seems kind of silly.

The last several sailings it’s been from 500 to 900 pax and approx 10% occupancy in rest of ship with about 50% occupancy in YC

 

MSC precondition was typically full of Europeans and some Asians…hence announcements in 6 languages.

We are missing having Europeans onboards

There are a few French, Germans, Scots this sailing

 

A reasonable number of Canadians have been onboard.

 

MSC isn’t as well known to the US market

Food leans continental

OC is a reserve not a theme park

I think much of that plays into it

se choose MSC for the style and pray it doesn’t become a US focused line

 

Dont know occupancy of other lines.

yesterday Celebrity Apex, NC! Pearl and a lArge RCL were all in Costa Maya with MSC Meraviglia 

 

YC is desirable over Haven etc….

I hope the policy stays. So few YC cabins as it is.

Plenty of choices in RCL, NCL, Celebrity etc for refundable suite class

 

 

Edited February 11, 2022 by Fogfog

[Fogfog]

1 hour ago, cruiseguyinorl said:

The talk of non-refundable deposits started many years ago during a discussion that I and several other large volume TA's for MSC had with their VP of Global Sales who was in town from Geneva. He presented his concern that a large number of people would book YC a year or two out then go to cancel at final payment time. This caused two problems. One for TA's being that clients who wanted to book a YC now were seeing them sold out for sailings far in the future. And obviously for MSC, a loss of revenue if those cabins that canceled did not resell as they generate a large amount of revenue even with the limited number cabins. Plus, they couldn't put those cabins on sale as it would devalue the YC product.

So the question became, how do you not tie up the inventory because of a small deposit that can be refunded. He had two answers. One was the non-refundable deposits that we are now seeing today. That effectively reduces that cancellation rate to a negligible amount. His second was to charge an exorbitantly high amount for YC deposits because typically speaking, the more money someone has invested, the less likely they are to cancel.

Now please don't take any of this as defense of the policy. Just trying to help out in understanding how it came about.  From the business side, it is a good idea. From the consumer side, it remains to be seen. As a consumer, I guess it helps that more YC inventory will theoretically be available. Obviously those that wish to cancel for a covered reason and have travel insurance, will get their money back. Those that are cancelling for non-covered reasons are the exact ones this new policy is targeting anyway.

Technically, the wording of non-refundable YC deposits has appeared on confirmations for a long time. Only recently did it become enforced. Still not saying I agree with it, though I understand why it has finally happened.

Bret

Thanks Bret

We like the policy because of the concerns mentioned.

Hate to have cabins booked by “maybes” and then we are not able to find something when planning far out. 
Biggest hassle we found pre cvd was trying to get on a ship in Barcelona that was headed for Doha. Couldn’t find a YC …only on ship early 2020 could future cruises find it…

moot pt as 2021 sailings were lost

 

 

 

[Fogfog]

1 hour ago, Stockjock said:

The 2 cruise lines we normally sail on are Celebrity and MSC.  We love the service, food and overall experience on Celebrity the best.

But, MSC offers a compelling value that can be hard to beat, especially given the newness of their ships.  Most the my concerns revolve around a lack of customer service that usually occurs off of the ship.  It's not usually the agents' fault, but more systemic issues, in my view.  Agents are often not empowered to resolve problems and must go to Italy (or wherever), and that's where things get wonky.  You may be aware that there are a decent number of travel agents who refuse to work with MSC, and I think that tends to support this view.

I've done a thread called MSC Comedy of Errors that describes some of my experiences and the experiences of others.  No cruise lines are perfect, but there are customer service issues within MSC that could be improved upon.

But generally, we enjoy the onboard experience and pricing.  We are doing a 10 night European summer sailing with an aft balcony, drink package, some OBC and wi-fi for about $1,000 per person.  I couldn't touch that price on Celebrity, despite the superior food, service onboard and pre-cruise, etc.

And at some point, I would like to try YC.  In a couple of years, my GF has a milestone birthday coming up, and I've considered doing YC as a birthday gift.  I loosely considered doing YC on this upcoming sailing, but don't like the fact that my deposit would be non-refundable.

Our go to was Aqua on Celebrity…sweet spot.

Or concierge and then do all meals in specialty dining.

Pricing on Celebrity with the always included etc seemed to given them an excuse to be aggressive price wise

 

We do see the MSC prices went up 25%as expected which the FCCs generally covered.

Dont know how they afford to sail when folks pay so little in Fantastica etc 

[Two Wheels Only]

2 hours ago, cruiseguyinorl said:

His second was to charge an exorbitantly high amount for YC deposits because typically speaking, the more money someone has invested, the less likely they are to cancel.

 

That's what NCL does with the Haven. It's not so bad compared to the overall cost but making 2 Haven deposits when you aren't 100% sure of the date means that NCL gets to hold thousands of your dollars until you cancel one booking.

 

2 hours ago, cruiseguyinorl said:

Technically, the wording of non-refundable YC deposits has appeared on confirmations for a long time. Only recently did it become enforced. Still not saying I agree with it, though I understand why it has finally happened.

 

So far, all of mine have been returned whether they cancelled or I cancelled. They usually hit my account at around 30 days. The best was at 17 days.

 

I know that MSC isn't the best when it comes to FCC (acquiring and applying) but maybe a compromise would be for deposits to only be returned as a credit towards another cruise. That could help to weed out the "maybe" people who clog up staterooms since those people won't be getting real money back.

[alyssamma]

2 hours ago, Fogfog said:

The last several sailings it’s been from 500 to 900 pax and approx 10% occupancy in rest of ship with about 50% occupancy in YC

 

MSC precondition was typically full of Europeans and some Asians…hence announcements in 6 languages.

We are missing having Europeans onboards

There are a few French, Germans, Scots this sailing

 

A reasonable number of Canadians have been onboard.

 

MSC isn’t as well known to the US market

Food leans continental

OC is a reserve not a theme park

I think much of that plays into it

se choose MSC for the style and pray it doesn’t become a US focused line

 

Dont know occupancy of other lines.

yesterday Celebrity Apex, NC! Pearl and a lArge RCL were all in Costa Maya with MSC Meraviglia 

 

YC is desirable over Haven etc….

I hope the policy stays. So few YC cabins as it is.

Plenty of choices in RCL, NCL, Celebrity etc for refundable suite class

 

 

I think YC numbers are large because of the upgrade offers.

 

And yes, lots of refundable choices on other lines...so why not MSC too?

[sverigecruiser]

6 hours ago, alyssamma said:

 

It really makes no sense to do this...if I book a cruise for 2yrs from now, I should be able to cancel a year out. I would have no problem with them changing the "no refund" date to like 6mo out or something, but non-refundable from the start is kind of crazy.

 

 

In Europe we are used to it because it has always, or at least for a long time, been like that here.

 

1. Decide to cruise. 2. Pay the deposit. 3. Cruise or loose the deposit.

 

I really like the changes because now people can't book cruises they might take without loosing the deposit.

 

I understand why you don't like it but for me the change is for the better.

[sverigecruiser]

7 minutes ago, alyssamma said:

 

And yes, lots of refundable choices on other lines...so why not MSC too?

 

Maybe the others will follow? If everyone does it the cruiselines has nothing to loose to do it, as long as enough people still wants to book cruises.

[alyssamma]

11 minutes ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

Maybe the others will follow? If everyone does it the cruiselines has nothing to loose to do it, as long as enough people still wants to book cruises.

Lol, I doubt it very seriously but we will see

[Fogfog]

23 minutes ago, alyssamma said:

I think YC numbers are large because of the upgrade offers.

 

And yes, lots of refundable choices on other lines...so why not MSC too?

They don’t have to

YC is a great value

Honestly, Happy others sail elsewhere if they want MSC to be an Americanized line…

 

There have been quite a few trying out YC yet they didn’t even adhere to dress code for dinner nor honored courtesy with pool use and hot tub….(limit number and time etc)

Happy for turn around day soon

Edited February 11, 2022 by Fogfog

[deliver42]

Unfortunately, when you price your cruise as a budget cruise, except therYC, you tend to get some rifraf on the ship. If they are upgraded to the YC, it doesn;'t matter, Rifraf is rifraf, no matter where they are. Sorry to hear about your YC experience.

[hamrag]

8 hours ago, Fogfog said:

Highly desirable…limited capacity..

That’s my guess.

 

Stockjock, I thought you didn’t like MSC based on other threads posted

I have him on ignore but, if this is yet another negative thread from him, we all know his clear agenda by now.....he craves attention....best to hit the ignore button!

Edited February 11, 2022 by hamrag

[alyssamma]

43 minutes ago, Fogfog said:

They don’t have to

YC is a great value

Honestly, Happy others sail elsewhere if they want MSC to be an Americanized line…

 

There have been quite a few trying out YC yet they didn’t even adhere to dress code for dinner nor honored courtesy with pool use and hot tub….(limit number and time etc)

Happy for turn around day soon

Wait...you're saying I don't HAVE to sail MSC? Wow, thanks.

 

However, I guess I'm also not allowed to question their policies? Anything I don't like about MSC the answer is you don't have to sail them?

 

Lol, very interesting insight. Thank you.

 

And you'd better let MSC know you don't want them Americanized...that was the EXACT reason they launched seaside here in the Caribbean. 

 

But wait...if you don't want them Americanized then you are free to sail Costa 😀

[sverigecruiser]

8 hours ago, alyssamma said:

Lol, I doubt it very seriously but we will see

 

The cruiseline has nothing to loose on non-refundable deposits as long as enough people still wants to cruise. I really can't see any good reason for them to offer refundable deposits.

[alyssamma]

6 hours ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

The cruiseline has nothing to loose on non-refundable deposits as long as enough people still wants to cruise. I really can't see any good reason for them to offer refundable deposits.

Obviously the other major cruise lines disagree. They do see a reason to do it. MSC is the only one doing this.

 

As mentioned above, lots of other ways to achieve the same thing. Raise the window to 120 or more days, make the deposit much higher, etc.